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PES 2013 Discussion Thread

they should give us more tactic options, not remove them
the possibility to give an individual player an instruction about on field movements would be much appreciated
 
SteelHorse75 said:
Only £19.85 on shopto. Worth a gamble?
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not even worth £1.99 unless you want the pleasure of jumping on the pile of shit.
it has got to be the most scripted pile of shit i have had the misfortune to play. traded it in two weeks ago got £8 and gave it to my little girl to put towards moshi monsters game. best thing i ever did, do not miss it one bit. from the crap gks to poor ai no reponse to loose balls.
crap player switching, forwards slowing down so defenders catch em. invisible walls popping up, you name it this games got it.

so don't do it, cus it will end in tears and fustration!!!
 
I really don't understand how anyone can think differently. I've never understood it, and probably never will understand it. PES mimics football, that's it. That is why I love it, that is why I play it.

so when was the last time you saw 3 defenders all run away from a loose ball?
the other day my opponent shot at the net, my gk parries the shot to the side, there is one of my defenders close by. but, before i can take control of him and player switching does not select him, he runs away out the penalty area leaving my opponents other forward to run on to it and tap it in the empty net. as jim royle would say "real football my arse"
in real fotball he would have tried to move to the ball a goal might have still happened, but he would not simply have run away.
thats the problem with the AI of players on your team. they do not respond to situations where a ball is loose.
 
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spellchecker said:
so don't do it, cus it will end in tears and fustration!!!
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Comeon, it's just a game.

Ccshopland has a point, in real life strange things happen as well, but the way Konami tries to transport that into the game is just wrong.

Playerswitching not working properly, ball and players going through other players, players running away from the ball for no reason... form-arrows being applied with no logic and having drastic influence... CPU-players receiving major statboosts that even normally slow players and technically not so gifted players become superplayers... invisible walls preventing you from getting to the ball at the feet of the CPU-player...

Sorry, but all this and more doesn't feel real at all.

Still, no reason to get down because of it, it's just a game, doing some things really well, and doing others extremely bad. What I do to get my football-fix in the winterphase is to play PES 5 for a while until it gets boring and then PES 2013 for a while until it frustrates me and viceversa...
 
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i know its just a game. but it could be so much better than what it is,
it just seems every year they turn the scripting up a notch rather than fix the glaring issues with in the game.
with pes 6 or 5 for that matter there were never enough hours in the day to play the game. with the next gen games they bore me after an hour because of the problems you mentioned.
 
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Oh yes, football might sometimes be a crazy game, but I seriously doubt developers are trying to mimic this. In any case, the "craziness" in PES seems to be both too recurrent and excessively convenient, doesn't it?

I respect every opinion, but, personally, I think accepting scripting the way it is now is accepting the game has no point. Let's imagine an AI striker has just left one of my defenders in the way and scored a goal...

Excellent scripting would be: if I pressed A when I should've pressed B, then C would occur. That would challenge me and lead me to think I should know better next time; that is making progress.

If they can't make such a thing possible because of the complexity of the game, then scripting should, at least, be bassed on players stats (that would still be good scripting, though far from excellent), yet most of us even acknowledge the often obvious presence of "AI demon mode", and AI players as suddenly as inexplicably receive huge temporary statistics boosts, preventing you from stopping a goal from happening even if you spot the "demon mode" scripting action as it is triggered and try to stop AI players by sweeping them in the most aggresive way.

I believe anyone who plays this game enough in single player mode and develops to a considerable level will eventually notice that many - too many - matches almost have fixed results at Super Star level, especially playing Champions League in ML mode, and this is a consequence of bad scripting.

I reckon I could not script this game properly myself, of course, and I think the game is superb in many other aspects, but if fails at its core and results in a frustrating experience.

In the end, it's just a game... but a rather frustrating one!
 
I'll play the game every now and again, maybe try a Copa Liberadores or something, but somehow the magic of the game that kept me coming back to it despite all my complaints seems to have been lost somewhat.

I've probably just played it enough now. Four Master League seasons is way enough for me, that's a lot of 15 minute games I've ploughed through and it kind of feels 'samey' now. Similar goals, I now know certain passing lanes that work, I just don't get excited even when I score a cracking goal any more. Shame.

It should be good for a little tournament here and there but I'm gonna give this a long rest. I think I've just got bored of the game now.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
I'll play the game every now and again, maybe try a Copa Liberadores or something, but somehow the magic of the game that kept me coming back to it despite all my complaints seems to have been lost somewhat.

I've probably just played it enough now. Four Master League seasons is way enough for me, that's a lot of 15 minute games I've ploughed through and it kind of feels 'samey' now. Similar goals, I now know certain passing lanes that work, I just don't get excited even when I score a cracking goal any more. Shame.

It should be good for a little tournament here and there but I'm gonna give this a long rest. I think I've just got bored of the game now.
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The key for me is not to overkill.

I now play PES perhaps once every three of four days for a maximum of 3 games at a time. That way I can appreciate the game, things feel fresh, and I can give 100% to these games in terms of concentration/tactics etc.
 
I guess despite all its flaws we have to remember. Its a game.
If you like it. Play it. If you dont. Play or do something else.

I just prefer the way that PES plays over Fifa. Ive played Fifa for 4 months now and as soon as I put PES last night it was like putting on an old favourite piece of clothing. It just feels right.

The passing is 100% better than Fifa - Fifa does otherthing much better like keepers etc but PES just has a feeling that Fifa dont.

In my opinion of course!
 
It's all down to personal opinion of course. Personally, for all its flaws I prefer PES over FIFA. I hate the direction EA have taken the game since the World Cup game in 2010, which is still my favourite football game of this current generation. Nothing has matched it since for gameplay or in that sense of match day atmosphere. I can't quite believe EA have taken their game down the route that they have.

PES, on the other hand, is going slowly in the right direction. I can't wait to see what's in store for the next game. For now though PES2013 has just lost its sense of randomness that made it so great. That's probably through playing it more often than any other game that I have right now. Familiarity breeds contempt, as the saying goes.
 
SteelHorse75 said:
I guess despite all its flaws we have to remember. Its a game.
If you like it. Play it. If you dont. Play or do something else.

I just prefer the way that PES plays over Fifa. Ive played Fifa for 4 months now and as soon as I put PES last night it was like putting on an old favourite piece of clothing. It just feels right.

The passing is 100% better than Fifa - Fifa does otherthing much better like keepers etc but PES just has a feeling that Fifa dont.

In my opinion of course!
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Its scary how much im agreeing with you today :). You have summed up how I felt after going back to FIFA 13 recently and then playing a few games on PES afterwards...

My main PES issue is that (IMO) the shooting is too effective.
 
Some guy called Sabatasso in the editing-thread posted this interesting information:

I repeat, if you want a completely new and pleasant PES2013 experience, delete your OPTION.bin (or move it to a backup folder) then start the game, pick your settings and load or start a new ML. Get to the first match, then ALT-TAB out and put write protection on your new OPTION.bin. (the game creates a fresh one on startup if there isn't one present)

Now, the friendly AI won't deteriorate anymore, and opponent AI won't cheat you anymore. THIS IS THE CURE FOR PES 2013! (and most likely any other PES using this engine). Simple, yet effective.

I do not recommend Tenacity tweak (99 or whatever) or any other global ability tweak in combination with this mod (for lack of a better word) as the AI will work like dogs with default settings. Using this mod WILL improve movement, tactics and strategy will have much more impact and you will basically not recognize the game in many ways. One can wonder what the hell Konami were thinking when they hid this gem of a game behind all that poor programming called TeamVision (and any other crap they save to the option file) that completely destroys the game.

I assume further testing will be done extensively by Matt10, and he will most likely come up with any global improvements if he find the need for it. I use none at the moment, and I am plenty happy. The in-game speed settings doesn't even seem to have adverse effects on the game any more.

Have fun.

PS. I don't know exactly how this game works, but I do know that the engine collects data of your (BAL/ML) progress, opponents and stores it in the OPTION.bin file. Then before a match, it calculates this and that based on previous matches, what kind of game you're entering, who the opponent is, your teams stature and so on. So, if you play a good team in ML, and enter the CL against any opponent and have had reasonable success in the game so far, you will get cheated like a bitch because the OPTION.bin told the AI to do so. Now if you have a new OPTION.bin, the file will tell the AI that you haven't really played that much before and therefore want to give you a difficult but pleasant experience. OPTIOIN.bin is like a drug dealer, it treats you nice in the beginning making it all seem fun but will start to cheat you badly once you're hooked. So, I say LET'S DENY IT THAT PLEASURE! (right click the fucker, and apply "read-only" on the file and you're safe!)
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So, if I understood correctly and if that guy is right, the scripting analyses our past success in the competition-modes and then applies stat-boosts and stat-decreases to achieve certain defeats or wins.

And it's possible to stop that when creating a fresh OPTION.bin-file and write-protecting it.

For those playing the PC-version, maybe it's worth a try.

Still, even if that dynamic cheating can be stopped, it doesn't mean that the game becomes better overall, cause maybe without it, it might become a bit boring.
 
You really think the AI is adaptive and see's how you play, stores it in a file and then adapts for the next time? I seriously doubt that it does.
 
ccshopland said:
The key for me is not to overkill.

I now play PES perhaps once every three of four days for a maximum of 3 games at a time. That way I can appreciate the game, things feel fresh, and I can give 100% to these games in terms of concentration/tactics etc.
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I play Pes for between an hour and 3 hrs most nights of the week except fri/sat's and am 9 seasons in, and i still done get bored or get that overkill feeling.
Although i did have a bash on WWE13 last night that i got for xmas and it was nice to play something different, as my gaming time is precious and any time I do get, as I say usually late at night after work, gym, footy dinner, etc is taken up by PES.
 
I'm using Malaga in a CL mode.
Enjoying it.
Santa Cruz is a great sub.
Was 3-1 down v Gala with 8 mins to go. Put him on and boom. Hat trick.
 
Lami said:
Why? Isn't that the whole point of Teamvision?
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TeamVision is adaptive I agree but I am not so sure it stores its data in a file that then gets retrieved when you next play a match Lami.

If it is that simple people will keep deleting the file and will keep playing the AI the same way each time and will win the same way each time like FIFA 13......
 
Adaptive TeamVision is there since 2008 or 2009, isn't it? It has evolved into more versions since then, but it's old news.
 
I thought we had TeamVision 2.0 last time I checked? Also I thought the point of TeamVision was to control all the other players that are not under your control so both the AI team and the other outfield players on your team. If that is being manipulated so that the CPU plays amazingly with a rubbish team and makes stuff happen that simply wouldnt then thats just a poor cheating system.

Adaptive AI which takes into account its own teams strengths and weaknesses and that of its opponent team is desperately needed for both PES and FIFA going forward. When you play against another human player they try and react to what you do in the same way that Adaptive AI should.
 
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at the moment the AI of team mates on your side cannot even react to a loose ball. they either stand still or move/run away from it.anybody would think its a grenade about to blow up. pathetic.
and as for gks 1v1 situations when your opponents player runs across him, dont get me started, cus the gks do jack sh**.
 
Lami said:
I'd like to know whether anyone's tried deleting/renaming or protecting it.
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The procedure is:

1. To delete the Option.bin-file or to put it somewhere else as a backup.
2. Then to start the game and start a fresh ML-campaign (maybe it works with any freshly started competition-campaign) with the settings you pick.
3. Start the first match in the ML-campaign (or any other competition-campaign) and then forcibly quit the game for example by bringing up the task-manager and terminating the PES-process.
4. Putting the write-protection on the newly created Option.bin-file.

I would have already tried it myself but I need my mac for working these days.
 
i think there is something in this.
i don't play on pc but ps3.
here is what has happened to me on pes 2010, 11, 12, 13.if i play as one team say man city in quick online matches., all the time with same 4 preset tactics.
this has happened 4 years on the trot. everthing starts off ok, i win some, draw some, lose some, say out of 20 matches win about 14.
i then reach a certain number of points, this year around 600, then as soon as i reach this figure i struggle to win any match. everything thats wrong about this game, happens in abundance. ie. poor gks bad ai bad player switching etc all exaggerated. i just cannot seem to be able to do anything right.
then, as soon as i drop down to around 500pts or sometimes 460pts its as though something within the game says "right" thats enough.then everthing is back to what it was before, i will maybe win 14 of the next 20 matches. till i get to around the 600pts mark and the cycle starts over again. this has happened 4 times this year. numerous last year and the year before. the guys who i come up against online who have more than 600pts or more, when i check there profile seem to have played the majority of time as real madrid or barcelona mostly the former. as i believe the game online is heavily biased towards real madrid and people are not daft they soon suss these things out.
coincidence or what?
 
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Lami said:
I'd like to know whether anyone's tried deleting/renaming or protecting it.
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There's no point in just deleting/renaming option.bin - if we delete it, game will create new one. If we rename it, game believes option.bin is deleted (since it cannot find it any more by original name) and will create new one. Whenever option.bin is recreated from scratch, we have to readjust difficulty level and other settings.

To be able to test this, option.bin has to remain unchanged - write protection of freshly saved option.bin should do the trick, at least on PC. I don't know whether such an option exists on consoles.

But there will be couple of glitches if option.bin is write-protected all the time, because game won't be able to save some of the, arguably, harmless data that shouldn't have anything to do with adaptive AI:
1. GP (shop points) count
2. unlockable shop/training items, obtained by playing online - fruits, 3rd training item slot, etc.
3. ... can't remember of anything else right now
 
I doubt the Adaptive AI has anything to do with the option files at all. Those behaviors aren't saved to anywhere, they're pre-scripted/hardcoded into the game to be triggered on specific situations.
 
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