PES 2013 Discussion Thread

have done with this game now.
fed up of the constant scripting in matches both online and offline.
offline i can accept within reason, but online why oh why?
there needs to be a big improvement in pes 2014, and going by konamis previous one step forward two steps back approach i aint holding my breath. nor will i be pre ordering it, they have pulled peoples pants down once too often for me.
and another thing that pisses me off this year is invisible walls, its boll**Ks!
 
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Good call from those recommending the attack levels in tactical assistance. I rarely aler the bar setting manually during the match but with this set to assisted, you can set it with a bias towards defensive, attacking etc and the game constantly changes it for you to reflect the play. When defending, it'll switch to two bars automatically etc. makes the game play slightly more balanced.

I just beat Barca away with Benfica in my CL match in ML, with it set to ultra defensive to flood out their star players around my box, but it would allow my players to get up the field and support my counter attacks. It worked a charm, I stayed organised and compact, won 2-0, and felt more in control of my team. No wandering players at the back, and plenty of forward runs.
 
It does work but i don't see the difference in that and just having it manually set to 2 bars when you start a match or where you think you might need to be cautious.

if you can get used to chaning it yourself when you need to it makes the overall experience much better
 
robbieryan said:
It does work but i don't see the difference in that and just having it manually set to 2 bars when you start a match or where you think you might need to be cautious.

if you can get used to chaning it yourself when you need to it makes the overall experience much better
Click to expand...

It's different to having it set to two bars manually because, on auto, it changes constantly. If you set it to defensive, it alternates constantly between 2 and 3 bars depending on where you are and what the opposition are doing. Manually altering it, as you say, would do the same thing,, but personally I can't be bothered changing the setting every time possession turns over. I'd feel like I was spending more time altering the bar than actually playing. Auto does it for me.

But it has improved the game for me, it's not a magic solution to lots of problems but it's made the game slower, and for me, thats better.
 
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Well I've enjoyed the game overall, but now I've reached my limit.

Three seasons into my Master League, I reached the Champions League semi final for the first time ever in PES, first time ever on Superstar. Along the way I've comfortably despatched Real Madrid, Schalke and knocked out Barcelona.

Then came the semi final. To sum up, I switched the game off four times in a row before it had finished, due to the disgusting, awful cheating - the likes of which I've never before seen in a PES game.

I'll describe them, just because it's funny really.

First game. I begin the better side, then fall behind to a shitty 65 yard through ball and the fact that Konami seem to think Aguero is the fastest man on earth. Then, this happens. I'm on the right wing with my RM Reus. I press the long pass button to cross it into the box. Just a split second before I press the button, the COM inexplicably switches the cursor to someone miles off the ball. The result is that Reus doesn't kick the ball, he just stands there and watches it roll out of play. The other result is, that the player I'm now controlling, 40 yards away from the ball, has just performed a sliding tackle because at the exact moment I pressed the long pass button with Reus, the cursor changed to Bruno Cesar and made him peform a sliding tackle instead (as both commands share the same button). Cesar does a sliding tackle into the Man City player near him and gets a straight red card. My leading scorer, 95-rated captain is out of both legs after ten minutes due to the game screwing up the player switching.

Xbox is switched off.

Game two. I switch off after 44 minutes when I go 4-0 down. Aguero scores all four. Two of the goals, he slalomed past five or six players from within his own half and chipped my keeper. Now, on both replays for both goals, it becomes clear that Aguero's path to goal was indeed blocked by three, four and five hulking great defenders physically between him and the goal. Not that it matters to Konami. Aguero just passed through their bodies on his way to goal then accelerated faster than Captain America.

What can you do but block him off with defenders? NOTHING, if the answer is that Aguero can magically pass through solid objects.

Xbox switched off.

Game three.

I switch off when I'm 3-0 down inside half an hour again, with one goal coming from my defender being tackled by Balotelli when, well in advance, I told them to clear the ball and the power bar just hung on screen with them doing nothing. The other two goals, the COM purposefully moved my defenders out of the way of the ball with an invisible force field to allow Aguero to score.

What can you do but block the players' path to goal and mark the striker in the box? According to Konami, nothing, because they'll make sure that to simulate 'difficulty' the game will actively take control of your players, and make them run out of the way of the ball as it's going into your penalty area.

Xbox switched off.

Game four.

I go 2-0 down yet AGAIN by halftime, Aguero scoring both, again by accelerating from inside his own half and just gliding past the entire back four at five times the speed, and while having the ball at his feet.

Then I pull a goal back early in the second half. Almost immediately, I go to 2-2 and amazingly 3-2 ahead. I then spend most of the second half pushing for a fourth goal. Towards the end, in the 88th minute, Man City then pull level with a goal. 3-3.

In the 90th minute, my 95-rated midfielder hits a basic pass that for no reason goes straight to a City player. He then hits a through ball that my left back can easily intercept. The game momentarily makes him sidestep the ball to allow the City player in down the wing. He chips in the cross, and as it comes into the six-yard box, the game again makes my CB move away from Aguero with an invisible force field and allows a 6ft4 90-rated defender to get outjumped by 5ft6 Aguero for 4-3. Then, in the 90th minute again, Tevez wins the ball almost from the restart and smashes in a goal from 40 yards that my keeper stands and watches when he could have trapped it with his foot.

3-2 in the 88th minute to 3-5 at full time. All of them bollocks goals I again could do nothing about.

I've heard people say the Champions League scripting in ML is out of control, and I have seen it before, but get to the semi final and the game becomes a farce, a genuine farce of an attempt at replicating football. The CPU's only solution is to move your players out of the way of the ball and stat boost strikers so they can just run through the centre of the pitch. Getting to this stage of the game makes it utterly, utterly unplayable without dropping the difficulty, and then what's the point because it's then too easy.

Can't they just program an AI that can present a challenge in a cup semi final without such blatant forms of cheating?

In the quarter finals, I beat Barcelona 2-0 in the first leg with ease, then scrambled through the second leg at home, 3-2 on aggregate having lost the game 2-1. Both Barca goals were well constructed goals, they put me under pressure, and I thoroughly enjoyed the game despite losing 2-1. But this bullshit in the semi final, four times in a row when I restart the game, is too much. The most obvious, almost spiteful boosting and cheating I've ever seen in a game. But you can see the difference between the Champions League quarter finals, regular league games, and then how much boosting the game introduces from the semi final onwards.

I mean seriously, anything that resorts to momentarily taking control of your character is shockingly awful. Imagine how much stick Nintendo would get if they programmed it so that whenever Mario got near the end of a level, the jump button would deliberately stop working just to 'mix it up a bit'. The game would be laughed at and critically panned.

Rant over. No point in this game now.
 
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We hear ya buddy it's the most frustrating pile of crap I've ever played, I had the cpu slide tackle my defender 40 yards out and the ball hurtled towards the goal hit my defender on the buttocks and wrongfooted the keeper in injury time. I actually fell to the floor laughing.

PES always had scripting, how else can it play against you? But this game should get an award for blatant unashamed cheating. I can't play it anymore, it's all predetermined bullshit. What a shame, it could have been brilliant.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Well I've enjoyed the game overall, but now I've reached my limit.

Three seasons into my Master League, I reached the Champions League semi final for the first time ever in PES, first time ever on Superstar. Along the way I've comfortably despatched Real Madrid, Schalke and knocked out Barcelona.

Then came the semi final. To sum up, I switched the game off four times in a row before it had finished, due to the disgusting, awful cheating - the likes of which I've never before seen in a PES game.

I'll describe them, just because it's funny really.

First game. I begin the better side, then fall behind to a shitty 65 yard through ball and the fact that Konami seem to think Aguero is the fastest man on earth. Then, this happens. I'm on the right wing with my RM Reus. I press the long pass button to cross it into the box. Just a split second before I press the button, the COM inexplicably switches the cursor to someone miles off the ball. The result is that Reus doesn't kick the ball, he just stands there and watches it roll out of play. The other result is, that the player I'm now controlling, 40 yards away from the ball, has just performed a sliding tackle because at the exact moment I pressed the long pass button with Reus, the cursor changed to Bruno Cesar and made him peform a sliding tackle instead (as both commands share the same button). Cesar does a sliding tackle into the Man City player near him and gets a straight red card. My leading scorer, 95-rated captain is out of both legs after ten minutes due to the game screwing up the player switching.

Xbox is switched off.

Game two. I switch off after 44 minutes when I go 4-0 down. Aguero scores all four. Two of the goals, he slalomed past five or six players from within his own half and chipped my keeper. Now, on both replays for both goals, it becomes clear that Aguero's path to goal was indeed blocked by three, four and five hulking great defenders physically between him and the goal. Not that it matters to Konami. Aguero just passed through their bodies on his way to goal then accelerated faster than Captain America.

What can you do but block him off with defenders? NOTHING, if the answer is that Aguero can magically pass through solid objects.

Xbox switched off.

Game three.

I switch off when I'm 3-0 down inside half an hour again, with one goal coming from my defender being tackled by Balotelli when, well in advance, I told them to clear the ball and the power bar just hung on screen with them doing nothing. The other two goals, the COM purposefully moved my defenders out of the way of the ball with an invisible force field to allow Aguero to score.

What can you do but block the players' path to goal and mark the striker in the box? According to Konami, nothing, because they'll make sure that to simulate 'difficulty' the game will actively take control of your players, and make them run out of the way of the ball as it's going into your penalty area.

Xbox switched off.

Game four.

I go 2-0 down yet AGAIN by halftime, Aguero scoring both, again by accelerating from inside his own half and just gliding past the entire back four at five times the speed, and while having the ball at his feet.

Then I pull a goal back early in the second half. Almost immediately, I go to 2-2 and amazingly 3-2 ahead. I then spend most of the second half pushing for a fourth goal. Towards the end, in the 88th minute, Man City then pull level with a goal. 3-3.

In the 90th minute, my 95-rated midfielder hits a basic pass that for no reason goes straight to a City player. He then hits a through ball that my left back can easily intercept. The game momentarily makes him sidestep the ball to allow the City player in down the wing. He chips in the cross, and as it comes into the six-yard box, the game again makes my CB move away from Aguero with an invisible force field and allows a 6ft4 90-rated defender to get outjumped by 5ft6 Aguero for 4-3. Then, in the 90th minute again, Tevez wins the ball almost from the restart and smashes in a goal from 40 yards that my keeper stands and watches when he could have trapped it with his foot.

3-2 in the 88th minute to 3-5 at full time. All of them bollocks goals I again could do nothing about.

I've heard people say the Champions League scripting in ML is out of control, and I have seen it before, but get to the semi final and the game becomes a farce, a genuine farce of an attempt at replicating football. The CPU's only solution is to move your players out of the way of the ball and stat boost strikers so they can just run through the centre of the pitch. Getting to this stage of the game makes it utterly, utterly unplayable without dropping the difficulty, and then what's the point because it's then too easy.

Can't they just program an AI that can present a challenge in a cup semi final without such blatant forms of cheating?

In the quarter finals, I beat Barcelona 2-0 in the first leg with ease, then scrambled through the second leg at home, 3-2 on aggregate having lost the game 2-1. Both Barca goals were well constructed goals, they put me under pressure, and I thoroughly enjoyed the game despite losing 2-1. But this bullshit in the semi final, four times in a row when I restart the game, is too much. The most obvious, almost spiteful boosting and cheating I've ever seen in a game. But you can see the difference between the Champions League quarter finals, regular league games, and then how much boosting the game introduces from the semi final onwards.

I mean seriously, anything that resorts to momentarily taking control of your character is shockingly awful. Imagine how much stick Nintendo would get if they programmed it so that whenever Mario got near the end of a level, the jump button would deliberately stop working just to 'mix it up a bit'. The game would be laughed at and critically panned.

Rant over. No point in this game now.
Click to expand...

so we're finally free from your tantrums?

i doubt it :P

you'll be back... you always does...
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Well I've enjoyed the game overall, but now I've reached my limit.

Three seasons into my Master League, I reached the Champions League semi final for the first time ever in PES, first time ever on Superstar. Along the way I've comfortably despatched Real Madrid, Schalke and knocked out Barcelona.

Then came the semi final. To sum up, I switched the game off four times in a row before it had finished, due to the disgusting, awful cheating - the likes of which I've never before seen in a PES game.

I'll describe them, just because it's funny really.

First game. I begin the better side, then fall behind to a shitty 65 yard through ball and the fact that Konami seem to think Aguero is the fastest man on earth. Then, this happens. I'm on the right wing with my RM Reus. I press the long pass button to cross it into the box. Just a split second before I press the button, the COM inexplicably switches the cursor to someone miles off the ball. The result is that Reus doesn't kick the ball, he just stands there and watches it roll out of play. The other result is, that the player I'm now controlling, 40 yards away from the ball, has just performed a sliding tackle because at the exact moment I pressed the long pass button with Reus, the cursor changed to Bruno Cesar and made him peform a sliding tackle instead (as both commands share the same button). Cesar does a sliding tackle into the Man City player near him and gets a straight red card. My leading scorer, 95-rated captain is out of both legs after ten minutes due to the game screwing up the player switching.

Xbox is switched off.

Game two. I switch off after 44 minutes when I go 4-0 down. Aguero scores all four. Two of the goals, he slalomed past five or six players from within his own half and chipped my keeper. Now, on both replays for both goals, it becomes clear that Aguero's path to goal was indeed blocked by three, four and five hulking great defenders physically between him and the goal. Not that it matters to Konami. Aguero just passed through their bodies on his way to goal then accelerated faster than Captain America.

What can you do but block him off with defenders? NOTHING, if the answer is that Aguero can magically pass through solid objects.

Xbox switched off.

Game three.

I switch off when I'm 3-0 down inside half an hour again, with one goal coming from my defender being tackled by Balotelli when, well in advance, I told them to clear the ball and the power bar just hung on screen with them doing nothing. The other two goals, the COM purposefully moved my defenders out of the way of the ball with an invisible force field to allow Aguero to score.

What can you do but block the players' path to goal and mark the striker in the box? According to Konami, nothing, because they'll make sure that to simulate 'difficulty' the game will actively take control of your players, and make them run out of the way of the ball as it's going into your penalty area.

Xbox switched off.

Game four.

I go 2-0 down yet AGAIN by halftime, Aguero scoring both, again by accelerating from inside his own half and just gliding past the entire back four at five times the speed, and while having the ball at his feet.

Then I pull a goal back early in the second half. Almost immediately, I go to 2-2 and amazingly 3-2 ahead. I then spend most of the second half pushing for a fourth goal. Towards the end, in the 88th minute, Man City then pull level with a goal. 3-3.

In the 90th minute, my 95-rated midfielder hits a basic pass that for no reason goes straight to a City player. He then hits a through ball that my left back can easily intercept. The game momentarily makes him sidestep the ball to allow the City player in down the wing. He chips in the cross, and as it comes into the six-yard box, the game again makes my CB move away from Aguero with an invisible force field and allows a 6ft4 90-rated defender to get outjumped by 5ft6 Aguero for 4-3. Then, in the 90th minute again, Tevez wins the ball almost from the restart and smashes in a goal from 40 yards that my keeper stands and watches when he could have trapped it with his foot.

3-2 in the 88th minute to 3-5 at full time. All of them bollocks goals I again could do nothing about.

I've heard people say the Champions League scripting in ML is out of control, and I have seen it before, but get to the semi final and the game becomes a farce, a genuine farce of an attempt at replicating football. The CPU's only solution is to move your players out of the way of the ball and stat boost strikers so they can just run through the centre of the pitch. Getting to this stage of the game makes it utterly, utterly unplayable without dropping the difficulty, and then what's the point because it's then too easy.

Can't they just program an AI that can present a challenge in a cup semi final without such blatant forms of cheating?

In the quarter finals, I beat Barcelona 2-0 in the first leg with ease, then scrambled through the second leg at home, 3-2 on aggregate having lost the game 2-1. Both Barca goals were well constructed goals, they put me under pressure, and I thoroughly enjoyed the game despite losing 2-1. But this bullshit in the semi final, four times in a row when I restart the game, is too much. The most obvious, almost spiteful boosting and cheating I've ever seen in a game. But you can see the difference between the Champions League quarter finals, regular league games, and then how much boosting the game introduces from the semi final onwards.

I mean seriously, anything that resorts to momentarily taking control of your character is shockingly awful. Imagine how much stick Nintendo would get if they programmed it so that whenever Mario got near the end of a level, the jump button would deliberately stop working just to 'mix it up a bit'. The game would be laughed at and critically panned.

Rant over. No point in this game now.
Click to expand...

I believe it was Einstein who said that insanity is 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results'.

I know of the strange pull this game has. One believes that one only has to play one more game or try out one more different tactic, notch it down one more step on the support settings or change the camera one more time and suddenly everything will fall into place and open up and one will have reached football gaming paradise.

Don't think it will happen, but I admire your insistence on trying.
 
Maybe you're just better off playing Exhibition. It's known that after several seasons of ML the game begins to use blatant cheating scripts to increase the difficulty. I play exhibition with the defensive tactics settings with man marking assignments, and I find myself better able to control the game.
 
After I edited the mexican league (again, because latest data update screwed it badly :(), i finally started my ML campaign.

I set it up so La Liga is Division 1 and Mexican League (or Liga MX) is D2.
To arrange that properly, i had to pick a Spanish team and start with defaults, so i'd start in D2. I chose Celta de Vigo mainly because i like them being a low profile team, i alsovlike their uniforms and their stadium. I mean, i'd rather have Atlético Madrid's uniforms and stadium, but i tought i wouldn't like a 'big' team to dissapear.

Anyway, i start with defaults on Top Player 10 minute matches.
Transfer activity: low
Player development: no (i played BAL mode this year and have noticed how crazy players develop)
Classic Players: yes (which i deeply regret now)
Auto save: HELL NO
Currency: USD

Anyway, i won my first game asily and tought this D2 was going to be a walk in the park, as usual.. but definitely it wasn't. I was getting pounded badly by almost every team. I managed to get some draws and wins but i felt like i lost most of the season, while trying to make our best effort at Copa del Rey (which is a mixture in between D1 & D2 teams).. i even managed to beat Barcelona in Quarterfinals, but they seemed like they were not paying attention anyway.

In the end, i couldn't achieve promotion and lost the Cup Final against other D2 team.

I know some people might have deleted that savefile or replayed some matches, but i tought it was going to be a great challenge since i have always got the double in D2 in my first season before PES 2013. ALWAYS.
And it wasn't like i lost promotion because of goal difference or a few points, i finished 14th! (which even caused i wouldn't play the Cup next season, FFS).

Most of the time the AI feels robotic, but they can play proper footy (for a game) when they inted to, specially when they're using bigger teams.

I made a few transfers, mostly crappy players from the mexican league and arranged to get Krohn Dehli, Park Chu Young on free transfer (since they are regular Celta de Vigo players); and experimented with sliders and formations. Most of the time i just got trashed by opposition but on my Cup-less second season in D2 i finished 4th and lose my chance to get promoted, yet again. But at the end of the season i was getting to know all of my players, their strenghts and weaknesses (mostly their weaknesses hehe), and i had a great run but couldn't get into the top 3.

Anyway, season 3 in the freaking D2 starts and we're just cruising the league. Wins and draws and the ocassional lose, and doing well in the Cup again. Strangely, i had to face Barcelona in quarterfinals again, and they seemed like they weren't playing with all their strenght, they were like 'jeez, lets go back home and play CL games instead of this rubbish'.. and i beated them something like 5-3 on the aggregate.
We won the league, finally secured promotion and we got to face Real Madrid in the Cup Final. I tought it would be tough, but maybe they wouldn't take it too seriously as Barcelona. Oh, my. They trashed us 7-1 and i just wanted the match to end by the 50 minute mark, i was truly suffering! A fair trashing, tbqh. I know i could cry that Ronaldo was dancing around my defenders, Xabi Alonso and Casillas stopping everything, but that's probably what would happen if my crappy team faced them IRL in a Cup Final.

In all honesty, yeah.. there are some times that the game gets on demon mode and you know they will score no matter what. But there are sometimes, that you score from an offside position, get away with dirty tackles, and/or get through opposition defenders.
Thing is that people always whine when it's against them.
Like playing against a mate who always cries if i score, pointing out hundreds of 'glitches', but if he scores he's just happy. Ha.

Anyway, here are my stats for my first 3 seasons:
FK4iM.jpg


I received bids for both my stars (Kron & Park) and i HAD to let them go. I never saw that much money in 3 seasons haha!
After the bonus for winning D2, being runner up and a few more sponsors, i have something like $25mil and i haven't made any buys, but i will definitely have some reinforcements.

My fan base grew in a noticeable way, and now my stadium is like 1/3 full.. which for 3 seasons was a place for a few hobos to hide from the rain LOL.

I'll keep posting about the new season.
Keep in mind i NEVER have quitted or replayed any match. I'd feel like a fatty 10 year old kid crying to his mom.
Sorry if i offend any bitching 10 year old fatty hehe.

I just turned Auto Save off because it takes centuries if it's autosaving every 2 or 3 calendar games.
 
Two questions.

1. Are keepers fixed in 1.03 (positioning too close to near post, etc)
2. Do the central defenders still run into the 18 before confronting the attacker?
 
Been hearing rumours that there will be no new engine now for PES 2014 -- say it isn't so:(( Can't be dealing with a 7th iteration of the current mess.
 
Ipswich69 said:
Been hearing rumours that there will be no new engine now for PES 2014 -- say it isn't so:(( Can't be dealing with a 7th iteration of the current mess.
Click to expand...

I think that info was misconstrued by someone and what it means is that there won't be any new consoles in time for PES2014 (kind of obvious) but the new engine will be in place on current systems. From what I understand the new engine is scalable so can carry across to the next-gen systems whenever they arrive.

However if the new engine is delayed another year I'll be skipping PES2014. The game is so painfully dated now.
 
Lead Developer Kei Masuda attended a PES 2013 event in Italy earlier today. The editor of PESFan.it was also present and was able to tweet some new information regarding the future of the Pro Evolution Soccer series.

Arguably, today's most interesting announcement was; Pro Evolution Soccer 2014 will run on a new engine - regardless of whether the next generation of consoles arrives in time for the game's release or not.
Click to expand...

That was only 4 months ago. Don't think there are any reasons for them to change the plan.

But of course the hype will go over the roof at first. It's no difference than a band announcing their newest record going to be the heaviest to date.
 
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True, if the game wasn't anyone's cup of tea then the patches won't change that.

I'm running with my ML until I've got my club to no.1 in the world club rankings, but I've knocked it down to Top Player and having won my league two seasons in a row, I might just sim the league matches and only do Champions League, then I'll be done with the game.

The problem for me is that there is no balance in difficulty. I can win the league etc in ML on Superstar, but get into the latter stages of the CL and the game goes unplayably scripted. Bizarrely so. So, I went down a level to Top Player, which to be fair is normally around my kind of level of challenge in previous games, but it's WAY too easy. After the debacle i described with AI cheating i replayed the CL semis on Top Player instead, and comfortably ended up winning the Champions League and Super Cup without much of a challenge. Now, just three games into my fourth season and I've banged in 15 goals already, including a 7-1 win away to Sporting....so on one hand the cheating gets out of control and repeatedly screws you over, drop down one level and it away too easy.

Couple that with the fact that I've already won the league twice now on Superstar and I've kinda lost motivation to wade through so many 15 minute games. Even on Superstar, i mostly won easily so there was either very little challenge, then suddenly the game would decide to cheat you out of a game every time with bizarrely poor goals.

There's either no challenge at all or the game rips into you with bizarre cheating.

I really hope PES2014 can get that balance right.
 
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Gamble? For that price it wasn't even a gamble. The game really deserve the retail price. There's obviously some frustration, but of course being a video game it's not going to be spot on all the time. I'm satisfied with my purchase, really enjoying against real people in offline mode. Unlike PES 2012 which was a major disappointment among the trilogy.
 
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I would say, offline-multiplayer, PES 2013 can be really good, but against the CPU it's a tiresome, boring and cheatful experience.

The problem is on top-player or above the game deliberately dumbs down your own teamplayers and let's them be retarded to no end, while it boosts the CPU-player's reactions, speed, strength... makes them telepathic... and even bends physics to serve its goal (pun intended).

Playing on professional or even regular and you see your teamplayers be more free and aware and intelligent, making good movements, but you then get the problem that the game becomes too easy after you became better in playing it.

So there's really no difficult-level that really satisfies.

I hope PES 2014 offers a way more satisfactory singleplayer-experience.
 
Another one bites the dust...

I've gotten tired of this awfully scripted game. I've just pressed alt+F4 and closed the game for the last time. I was playing ML mode in Super Star difficulty and AI scored such a preposterous goal that I decided not to play anymore. I wasn't even losing, I was still 3-1 up, but I've felt frustrated too many times already.

It's a shame, though, because the game is beautiful in other ways. But single player is simply not playable.

Anyway, I was beginning to think it could just be my style of playing or something, but then I found this. I feel relieved somehow, but rather sad because of the game.

Apparantly, KONAMI isn't capable of developing a proper AI for their games anymore. I don't think this kind of cheating occurred back in PS1 games... do any of you remember?
 
well, the 'demon mode' of the AI has always existed IMO.
when they score NO MATTER WHAT, and you can actually tell the moment it gets somehow triggered
 
Okay I haven't posted for a while now, I DO feel some players grief, BUT...here's where I play devil's advocate.

AI and scripting.

You only have to watch the EPL this year to see that football is one crazy game. My evidence for the defence (so to speak) - Liverpool v Villa. Liverpool dominate first 15 minutes of game. Could literally have been 5 up in that time, go on to get hammered. Arsenal v Newcastle...crazy, crazy, crazy game. United coming back from behind, ALL THE TIME. United scoring late goals again. The amount of deflected goals that go in off free kicks wrong footing the keeper.

The Year of the Defence!

The defending this year, in general in leagues around the world, has been preposterous. Call it defenders no longer defenders, or attackers and mid fielders reaching a new level of excellence, but defences all over the globe are having a torrid time. I'm talking balls going through legs, deflections into strikers paths, collisions, falling over, bad decision making, bad marking.

Remember that United game where didn't they concede three goals from corners one after another? I watched Roma v Inter a few days ago, Inter all over the place at the back.

I could go on and on and on.

So scripting...

The trouble is, is that it's necessary I believe. What do people want? Full control? If by full control you mean that every phase of play you feel in control of the game and your inputs AND the logical outputs then the game will become dull and repetitive. I'm afraid football isn't like that. Players do swing in crosses unexpectedly. Defenders do hesitate/all out of position/just mess up.

The problem the game has IMO is not reflecting what we perceive as 'cheating' in a realistic way. For example, when my CB decides to go walkies to leave that much more room for the striker in which he can head home a cross or something, the game needs show the occurrence much more effectively and be more subtle, rather than just physically move my defender one way and then another for the space to be created.

What the game has probably calculated in this instance is A) the CPU player in control of the ball on the wing, his skill and crossing stats compared with B) my defender on the wing, tackling, positioning etc etc, this leads to the cross being effective or not. Then C) the strikers positioning stats, mentality, and general attacker quality compared to D) my defenders defensive stats, heading etc etc.

What should happen is a lot more subtlety in terms of the cross and the headed goal, but the computer just calculates that my defender needs to go walkies in completely the other direction because in that theoretical instance the attacker is better than the defender and thus creates his space/has more instinct for the goal opportunity.

If the game had the same logical outcomes every time then the game could be perfected in a week.

Take a real life example. Fulham v Real Madrid. Fulham obviously do not intent to ship goals, and they may do everything in their power move for move to stop Real. But Madrid will score. Even if they feel that they've done all they can to prevent goals, goals will be shipped. The quality of the opposition player, the things they do 'outside the box' it all adds up to goals being conceded. In PES how can this be reflected if teams like Real aren't depicted in a slightly super-human light, with some strange occurrences in the game, things that are seemingly out of your control.

The other thing that I take issue with is that 'teams like QPR suddenly become like Barce'....well, you know, fair enough. Sometimes 'god mode' for the CPU is a little OTT, but teams take points off each other all the time. QPR beat Chelsea...at Chelsea the other day.

I could list a million and one examples of scripting in real life. Think Liverpool v Milan Euro Cup. Think Liverpool v Newcastle games. Think Man Utd always scoring late. Think Man United v Bayern Cup Final in which Bayern could have won that 23-0. Think Chelsea beating Barce. I could go on.

The more I play PES the more I think I'm beginning to understand the complexity of creating situations and calculating what should/could happen.

I have other massive problems with the game personally, I can handle scripting as I think it's needed.

My main problems are that the game needs to go back to it's simulation roots. Acceleration needs to be more noticeable, top speed needs to be inextricably linked to ball control and technique when sprint whoring. STAMINA SYSTEM both for you, the CPU and online play for you and your opponent. You run sprinting the entire first half with Ronaldo and he actually has a heart attack and dies or something.

The game is also too fluid both in terms of creating moves both for human and CPU and player movements in general. We need something between 2011 and 2013 in terms of players having weight and twisting and turning needs to be more realistic. Either shooting needs to be toned right down in its accuracy or keepers made much better. The goals to shots ratio is too high.

In relation to my last point, they either need to keep the pitch size and alter players fluidity or keep the fluidity and make the pitch smaller or something to stop this end to end counter fest.

CPU AI, if the CPU are playing a counter game, they simply don't counter forward all the time IRL, it's not possible, the lone striker has to hold up play, pass it back where some moves lose the momentum and they are forced to pass it around.

My modded PES 6 does most of these things superbly.

And freedom. If I want to blem the ball into the stands I should be able to do so. If I want to over hit a pass from one end of the pitch to another I should be able to do so. It's not free, it's still too locked on and still too restrictive.

To end, I do understand the pain of many players where unfathomable scripting events have occurred to cost you games etc. But ask yourselves if you're doing everything in your power to stop/reduce the scripting by changing tactics, personnel etc. The game can only compute through the variables it has. Simply by shifting to an ultra defensive formation, making a few subs and playing a different type of game, may see the oppositions scripting curtailed if you say went one-nil up in a Champions League final.

Here's hoping for 2014.
 
Last edited:
ccshopland said:
Okay I haven't posted for a while now, I DO feel some players grief, BUT...here's where I play devil's advocate.

AI and scripting.

You only have to watch the EPL this year to see that football is one crazy game. My evidence for the defence (so to speak) - Liverpool v Villa. Liverpool dominate first 15 minutes of game. Could literally have been 5 up in that time, go on to get hammered. Arsenal v Newcastle...crazy, crazy, crazy game. United coming back from behind, ALL THE TIME. United scoring late goals again. The amount of deflected goals that go in off free kicks wrong footing the keeper.

The Year of the Defence!

The defending this year, in general in leagues around the world, has been preposterous. Call it defenders no longer defenders, or attackers and mid fielders reaching a new level of excellence, but defences all over the globe are having a torrid time. I'm talking balls going through legs, deflections into strikers paths, collisions, falling over, bad decision making, bad marking.

Remember that United game where didn't they concede three goals from corners one after another? I watched Roma v Inter a few days ago, Inter all over the place at the back.

I could go on and on and on.

So scripting...

The trouble is, is that it's necessary I believe. What do people want? Full control? If by full control you mean that every phase of play you feel in control of the game and your inputs AND the logical outputs then the game will become dull and repetitive. I'm afraid football isn't like that. Players do swing in crosses unexpectedly. Defenders do hesitate/all out of position/just mess up.

The problem the game has IMO is not reflecting what we perceive as 'cheating' in a realistic way. For example, when my CB decides to go walkies to leave that much more room for the striker in which he can head home a cross or something, the game needs show the occurrence much more effectively and be more subtle, rather than just physically move my defender one way and then another for the space to be created.

What the game has probably calculated in this instance is A) the CPU player in control of the ball on the wing, his skill and crossing stats compared with B) my defender on the wing, tackling, positioning etc etc, this leads to the cross being effective or not. Then C) the strikers positioning stats, mentality, and general attacker quality compared to D) my defenders defensive stats, heading etc etc.

What should happen is a lot more subtlety in terms of the cross and the headed goal, but the computer just calculates that my defender needs to go walkies in completely the other direction because in that theoretical instance the attacker is better than the defender and thus creates his space/has more instinct for the goal opportunity.

If the game had the same logical outcomes every time then the game could be perfected in a week.

Take a real life example. Fulham v Real Madrid. Fulham obviously do not intent to ship goals, and they may do everything in their power move for move to stop Real. But Madrid will score. Even if they feel that they've done all they can to prevent goals, goals will be shipped. The quality of the opposition player, the things they do 'outside the box' it all adds up to goals being conceded. In PES how can this be reflected if teams like Real aren't depicted in a slightly super-human light, with some strange occurrences in the game, things that are seemingly out of your control.

The other thing that I take issue with is that 'teams like QPR suddenly become like Barce'....well, you know, fair enough. Sometimes 'god mode' for the CPU is a little OTT, but teams take points off each other all the time. QPR beat Chelsea...at Chelsea the other day.

I could list a million and one examples of scripting in real life. Think Liverpool v Milan Euro Cup. Think Liverpool v Newcastle games. Think Man Utd always scoring late. Think Man United v Bayern Cup Final in which Bayern could have won that 23-0. Think Chelsea beating Barce. I could go on.

The more I play PES the more I think I'm beginning to understand the complexity of creating situations and calculating what should/could happen.

I have other massive problems with the game personally, I can handle scripting as I think it's needed.

My main problems are that the game needs to go back to it's simulation roots. Acceleration needs to be more noticeable, top speed needs to be inextricably linked to ball control and technique when sprint whoring. STAMINA SYSTEM both for you, the CPU and online play for you and your opponent. You run sprinting the entire first half with Ronaldo and he actually has a heart attack and dies or something.

The game is also too fluid both in terms of creating moves both for human and CPU and player movements in general. We need something between 2011 and 2013 in terms of players having weight and twisting and turning needs to be more realistic. Either shooting needs to be toned right down in its accuracy or keepers made much better. The goals to shots ratio is too high.

In relation to my last point, they either need to keep the pitch size and alter players fluidity or keep the fluidity and make the pitch smaller or something to stop this end to end counter fest.

CPU AI, if the CPU are playing a counter game, they simply don't counter forward all the time IRL, it's not possible, the lone striker has to hold up play, pass it back where some moves lose the momentum and they are forced to pass it around.

My modded PES 6 does most of these things superbly.

And freedom. If I want to blem the ball into the stands I should be able to do so. If I want to over hit a pass from one end of the pitch to another I should be able to do so. It's not free, it's still too locked on and still too restrictive.

To end, I do understand the pain of many players where unfathomable scripting events have occurred to cost you games etc. But ask yourselves if you're doing everything in your power to stop/reduce the scripting by changing tactics, personnel etc. The game can only compute through the variables it has. Simply by shifting to an ultra defensive formation, making a few subs and playing a different type of game, may see the oppositions scripting curtailed if you say went one-nil up in a Champions League final.

Here's hoping for 2014.
Click to expand...

Omg, waiting for PES 2014
 
ccshopland said:
Okay I haven't posted for a while now, I DO feel some players grief, BUT...here's where I play devil's advocate.

AI and scripting.

You only have to watch the EPL this year to see that football is one crazy game. My evidence for the defence (so to speak) - Liverpool v Villa. Liverpool dominate first 15 minutes of game. Could literally have been 5 up in that time, go on to get hammered. Arsenal v Newcastle...crazy, crazy, crazy game. United coming back from behind, ALL THE TIME. United scoring late goals again. The amount of deflected goals that go in off free kicks wrong footing the keeper.

The Year of the Defence!

The defending this year, in general in leagues around the world, has been preposterous. Call it defenders no longer defenders, or attackers and mid fielders reaching a new level of excellence, but defences all over the globe are having a torrid time. I'm talking balls going through legs, deflections into strikers paths, collisions, falling over, bad decision making, bad marking.

Remember that United game where didn't they concede three goals from corners one after another? I watched Roma v Inter a few days ago, Inter all over the place at the back.

I could go on and on and on.

So scripting...

The trouble is, is that it's necessary I believe. What do people want? Full control? If by full control you mean that every phase of play you feel in control of the game and your inputs AND the logical outputs then the game will become dull and repetitive. I'm afraid football isn't like that. Players do swing in crosses unexpectedly. Defenders do hesitate/all out of position/just mess up.

The problem the game has IMO is not reflecting what we perceive as 'cheating' in a realistic way. For example, when my CB decides to go walkies to leave that much more room for the striker in which he can head home a cross or something, the game needs show the occurrence much more effectively and be more subtle, rather than just physically move my defender one way and then another for the space to be created.

What the game has probably calculated in this instance is A) the CPU player in control of the ball on the wing, his skill and crossing stats compared with B) my defender on the wing, tackling, positioning etc etc, this leads to the cross being effective or not. Then C) the strikers positioning stats, mentality, and general attacker quality compared to D) my defenders defensive stats, heading etc etc.

What should happen is a lot more subtlety in terms of the cross and the headed goal, but the computer just calculates that my defender needs to go walkies in completely the other direction because in that theoretical instance the attacker is better than the defender and thus creates his space/has more instinct for the goal opportunity.

If the game had the same logical outcomes every time then the game could be perfected in a week.

Take a real life example. Fulham v Real Madrid. Fulham obviously do not intent to ship goals, and they may do everything in their power move for move to stop Real. But Madrid will score. Even if they feel that they've done all they can to prevent goals, goals will be shipped. The quality of the opposition player, the things they do 'outside the box' it all adds up to goals being conceded. In PES how can this be reflected if teams like Real aren't depicted in a slightly super-human light, with some strange occurrences in the game, things that are seemingly out of your control.

The other thing that I take issue with is that 'teams like QPR suddenly become like Barce'....well, you know, fair enough. Sometimes 'god mode' for the CPU is a little OTT, but teams take points off each other all the time. QPR beat Chelsea...at Chelsea the other day.

I could list a million and one examples of scripting in real life. Think Liverpool v Milan Euro Cup. Think Liverpool v Newcastle games. Think Man Utd always scoring late. Think Man United v Bayern Cup Final in which Bayern could have won that 23-0. Think Chelsea beating Barce. I could go on.

The more I play PES the more I think I'm beginning to understand the complexity of creating situations and calculating what should/could happen.

I have other massive problems with the game personally, I can handle scripting as I think it's needed.

My main problems are that the game needs to go back to it's simulation roots. Acceleration needs to be more noticeable, top speed needs to be inextricably linked to ball control and technique when sprint whoring. STAMINA SYSTEM both for you, the CPU and online play for you and your opponent. You run sprinting the entire first half with Ronaldo and he actually has a heart attack and dies or something.

The game is also too fluid both in terms of creating moves both for human and CPU and player movements in general. We need something between 2011 and 2013 in terms of players having weight and twisting and turning needs to be more realistic. Either shooting needs to be toned right down in its accuracy or keepers made much better. The goals to shots ratio is too high.

In relation to my last point, they either need to keep the pitch size and alter players fluidity or keep the fluidity and make the pitch smaller or something to stop this end to end counter fest.

CPU AI, if the CPU are playing a counter game, they simply don't counter forward all the time IRL, it's not possible, the lone striker has to hold up play, pass it back where some moves lose the momentum and they are forced to pass it around.

My modded PES 6 does most of these things superbly.

And freedom. If I want to blem the ball into the stands I should be able to do so. If I want to over hit a pass from one end of the pitch to another I should be able to do so. It's not free, it's still too locked on and still too restrictive.

To end, I do understand the pain of many players where unfathomable scripting events have occurred to cost you games etc. But ask yourselves if you're doing everything in your power to stop/reduce the scripting by changing tactics, personnel etc. The game can only compute through the variables it has. Simply by shifting to an ultra defensive formation, making a few subs and playing a different type of game, may see the oppositions scripting curtailed if you say went one-nil up in a Champions League final.

Here's hoping for 2014.
Click to expand...

This has been my exact logic forever. Excellent post.

I really don't understand how anyone can think differently. I've never understood it, and probably never will understand it. PES mimics football, that's it. That is why I love it, that is why I play it.
 
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