PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Oh yes for sure. I love my PES online and offline but there are so many little things konami does that I don't get. I hate the way they have levelled the playing field. Its this thing of wanting to be a perfect game for hardcore footballer fans and casual gamers which imo is impossible.

Konami should go hardcore imo the rest will follow when it gets the acclaim.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
Call me crazy but there have to be gameplay changes to the CPU in that patch. The game in my ML is totally different without the patch.
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I don't know if I'd quite agree with you on HOW different the game is with/without the patch (or on the specific differences) but I'm still baffled by people who reckon there were no gameplay changes at all and it's simply placebo. I think the changes are a little more subtle than you suggest, but to not see them at all strikes me as bizarre.


Suuuuupertalk said:
Oh, and as for the number of CPU goals scored, its seems to be corrected quite a bit without the patch. Some teams have scored the same number as me, my totals are in keeping with the rest of the division so far. With the patch installed, my goals scored and conceded totals were over triple that of anyone else in the division.
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This is something that's bugging me at the moment in my ML - the fact that every single team in the league except me has scored fewer goals than the number of games they've played. I'm second in the league, but I've scored more than twice as many times as the teams above and below me. It's farcical.

Also, you mentioned the other day about the buggy Teamwork stat in ML... I checked and you're quite right. Perhaps that explains why my youth team CB, who I've been playing all season and who has already gone up to 83 OVR, seems to behave so oddly at times when AI-controlled, despite his gifts as a defender. His teamwork stat is still on 53.

Then again, I'm still not convinced it really matters much in the wacky world of ML. I just signed a striker in the January window, he's obviously got a similarly dreadful Teamwork stat, but he's making great runs and linking up really well with the rest of my forward line - absolutely no suggestion of low teamwork there. I reckon PES 2013 (which I'm still enjoying, despite everything) just does what it wants to do at least 50% of the time, and all these numbers and sliders and settings are mostly decoration.
 
Pere Ubu said:
I don't know if I'd quite agree with you on HOW different the game is with/without the patch (or on the specific differences) but I'm still baffled by people who reckon there were no gameplay changes at all and it's simply placebo. I think the changes are a little more subtle than you suggest, but to not see them at all strikes me as bizarre.
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I think the game is near on identical in every way possible, with the exception of the CPU. Even then, the CPU has had some very minor, minor tweaks but they are ones that have had too much of an impact on how the CPU behaves. I think Konami looked at the game out of the box and decided (wrongly, in my opinion) that tackling was too effective. So they toned that down, and made the CPU just that slightly bit more aggressive. Combine the two, particularly if you're playing on Superstar with the ML default players, and you get an ultra-brutal CPU that skips past your challenges far too often because it calculates that that's potentially the best rout to goal. Pre-patch, in my experience, the CPU is tackled a lot more or is fouled more, meaning that to keep an attack going it looks for a pass rather than a dribble. I think this is just a side-effect of the tackling being toned down rather than new, coded behaviour. Sometimes tiny tweaks can upset a whole load of other things.

The patched version has the facility to become extremely direct in the passing and dribbling, which in turn makes it more like PES2012 in that respect. I think this difference is more than possible just by tweaking some parameters in the game's code and I think it's had more of an effect than they'd have expected. I wouldn't be surprised to see this reigned back in whenever they inevitably patch the game again.

But, I will say that most people will disagree with this because it's nowhere near as apparent playing with better teams. Play a ML with the default players and you'll noticed the difference.

Pere Ubu said:
This is something that's bugging me at the moment in my ML - the fact that every single team in the league except me has scored fewer goals than the number of games they've played. I'm second in the league, but I've scored more than twice as many times as the teams above and below me. It's farcical.

Also, you mentioned the other day about the buggy Teamwork stat in ML... I checked and you're quite right. Perhaps that explains why my youth team CB, who I've been playing all season and who has already gone up to 83 OVR, seems to behave so oddly at times when AI-controlled, despite his gifts as a defender. His teamwork stat is still on 53.

Then again, I'm still not convinced it really matters much in the wacky world of ML. I just signed a striker in the January window, he's obviously got a similarly dreadful Teamwork stat, but he's making great runs and linking up really well with the rest of my forward line - absolutely no suggestion of low teamwork there. I reckon PES 2013 (which I'm still enjoying, despite everything) just does what it wants to do at least 50% of the time, and all these numbers and sliders and settings are mostly decoration.
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I'm really confused by the teamwork thing. In my first attempt at ML on Superstar, with the patch installed, I thought teamwork was the most vital stat in the game. I thought that my players weren't functioning properly, especially in defence (and yeah I found the exact same thing as you with Nouhei) because their teamwork stats were so low. Those stats only increased after a full season, and only by a point or so.

However, my ML so far on the same settings without the patch, is so different. My players still have the same low teamwork stats but it's not really making any difference.

I've just signed a Brazilian striker called Everton, and his teamwork instantly dropped from 73 before I signed him, down to 45 once he signed for my team. On the patched version on Superstar, he would have done really odd stuff like running past the ball, moving away from it when he should have pounced on a loose ball in the penalty area etc. Yet on the same settings, just without the patch, he's been my star player, scoring 5 in 5, and some of those have been pretty spectacular. His link up play has also been great.

Hopefully this means that teamwork plays a part but not as big a part as in the game post-patch. I dunno what it is, maybe it's just a side effect of Konami tweaking certain parameters and it's screwing with player's teamwork abilities more than it should. Either way, the game without the patch, with crappy players is still extremely tough, but I've at least managed to set up my tactics to win three of my first five games by winning 'ugly'. I'm talking holding out for wins by heroically blocking shots in the six yard box (Nouhei in particular is rock solid now), whereas before I deleted the patch, they'd just slice through your defence and hammer perfect goals in every time.

In fact against the same side, on the same difficulty, post-patch, I was 5-0 down in 28 minutes. The CPU played like a hyped up robot. Without the patch, against the same team, same settings, I had less of the ball than the CPU, managed a goal from a rare counter attack, then managed to park the bus until full time by blocking and tackling pretty desperately at times. But unlike the post-patch version, far more of my standing tackles actually worked. And those that didn't, resulted in fouls and yellow cards which again is more realistic.

But without having the cushion of being able to waltz past tackles like it does post-patch, the CPU actually has to play the ball around you and it makes for a more realistic game. And all because, in my opinion, Konami changed a couple of parameters with tackling and CPU accuracy in a 12MB patch.
 
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I do notice most of the stuff you're talking about (particularly the more frantic, end-to-end nature of the game since the patch) but I suppose it makes a difference that I'm not using the default ML players and I'm not on Superstar difficulty. I guess it would all be exaggerated if I were.

Incidentally, something that pisses me off which they haven't changed from last year: when playing against the computer, when was the last time you saw one of the opposition players sent off for two yellow cards? Yes, they get booked. Once in a blue moon they'll get a straight red (though I haven't seen one since the patch, come to think of it). But two yellows? Just doesn't happen.

If my winger draws a foul from the full back early on and he gets booked, I want to be able to tease him a bit later in the game when he's tired, knowing that he can't lunge in. But you'll never see it (in PES12 the computer would always sub players on a yellow, as though to protect them, but now it doesn't even bother... it's like it knows it makes no difference).
 
Pere Ubu said:
So let me get this straight - you don't like the stupid, unrealistic playing styles in online competitions, so you decide to become another person using unrealistic playing styles in online competitions? Oh well, I suppose winning is the only important thing. You should try using the lag cheat. It will help you win more games.




You've been an Evo-Web member almost ten years - have you not noticed that we don't tend to like ignorant xenophobes round here?
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You suppose wrong, I let the spanish to do it ok ?
I just wanted to try online mode, and if you play you wanna winn or loose ? So cut the crap .



I suppose you re one of those spanish that cheats online as hell, if i see spanish player i can smell problem in the airt.
 
Spain has one of the worst internet conection, support ,like speed and ping in europe. Ask google for euro chart and u will see it. So they are did not cheat if u has lag or something like that. In pes6j servers has aspanish players and they ar3 always lag or hav3 lag. It's not they faults
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
in my opinion, Konami changed a couple of parameters with tackling and CPU accuracy in a 12MB patch.
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Point me at Konami's patchnotes where they detail these gameplay changes, as is common practice across the entire world of software development, and I'll start to doubt my firm conviction – just as firm as yours! – that there were no changes in patch 1.01.

Your switch to another career without the patch isn't even remotely scientific. Not only have you got a different crop of players (esp. the Youths, who will all be rated differently), but you've got your accumulated experience from career no. 1 to affect the outcome as well. And in any case, PES is as it has always been – changeable from one match to the next.

What does 'organic' mean? In precise, quantifiable terms? It looks as if this is one PES buzzword that's here to stay (along with 'engine', 'on rails', 'stiff', and 'Football Kingdom'). I'd appreciate knowing what its users actually mean by it. Is it just another way of saying 'things I like', or is there more to it?
 
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Keith Houchen said:
Point me at Konami's patchnotes where they detail these gameplay changes, as is common practice across the entire world of software development, and I'll start to doubt my firm conviction – just as firm as yours! – that there were no changes in patch 1.01.
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Konami don't do patch notes because they're shit. End of story. Previous versions of PES have altered gameplay in very minor ways and they never released any patch notes on those either. I mean, seriously, they never even notify people of controls you can use in the game so why would they bother telling people what's in a patch?

Keith Houchen said:
Your switch to another career without the patch isn't even remotely scientific. Not only have you got a different crop of players (esp. the Youths, who will all be rated differently), but you've got your accumulated experience from career no. 1 to affect the outcome as well. And in any case, PES is as it has always been – changeable from one match to the next.
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My switch to another ML career is identical. By suggesting this I'd imagine you've never actually tried and are assuming. The ML default players are the same across the board, stat-wise. And the youth players are also the same, including stats. I checked this before starting my second attempt at a ML without the patch.

Your suggestion that PES is 'changeable' from one game to the next doesn't hold true in the scenario I was talking about. I played 28 matches, with the exception of 4 of those games, I took an absolute battering across the board. In 24 of those 28 games, the CPU was utterly ruthless, slightly robotic in its accuracy and totally rampaged through my team at will. I'd lose almost every game by 3, 4 or 5 goals.

Without the patch, the same players, same stats, same opponents, and it's far less ruthless against you. Tackling works far better. I really can't quantify this in any way other than to say that whereas my defenders would be unable to get a tackle in around their own box, since removing the patch, they instantly could. I'm not doing anything different, it's must more effective. This in turn has had a knock-one effect on my games, so that because the CPU isn't rampaging through my team any more, the ball is in midfield a lot more and possession is changing over a lot more too.

Keith Houchen said:
What does 'organic' mean? In precise, quantifiable terms? It looks as if this is one PES buzzword that's here to stay (along with 'engine', 'on rails', 'stiff', and 'Football Kingdom'). I'd appreciate knowing what its users actually mean by it. Is it just another way of saying 'things I like', or is there more to it?
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Finally, what I meant by 'organic' is that the game was more 'human' in terms of how the game flows. Possession without the patch seems to turn over more often in midfield, both sides make mistakes, the game plays out in a more realistic manner than the post-patch version where the CPU gets the ball and whacks a pin-point pass despite having shitty stats, then plays three ping-pong one twos, skips past two challenges and slams it into the net.

I really don't see what the objection is to the idea that there are minor gameplay changes. I'd actually say that the only alteration really is in CPU accuracy in front of goal and the effectiveness of tackling. There are clear differences there that would not take any large amount of alterations in the slightest, but I suggested that these alterations may have had a bigger impact on the way the CPU plays than Konami might have intended.

So if my ML restart is no indicator of any changes, then how can you explain how I played 28 matches, won 4, conceded around 60 goals and generally got systematically thrashed by a hyped up CPU that would score at will. I then remove the patch, restart on the same settings, same players with the same stats, same opponents, yet the games have been miles more midfield based, my tackling is instantly better, and I'm managing to win games without being punished so hard by the CPU? You can't just come out with the idea that my tackling has improved, or my experiences have stood me in stead for the second attempt at ML. My final match, I was 5-0 down inside 28 minutes before I quit the game and the mode. An hour later I restarted the game without the patch and suddenly I'm keeping clean sheets and competing fairly in midfield and defence. This isn't just a reaction from one game to the next, it's a prolonged change that I've seen from playing 28 games on one version, then now a dozen or so without the patch installed.

Why is that so far fetched? It's not like I"m claiming Santa Clause sneaked in to Konami HQ and sprinkled it with fairy dust. I'm merely suggesting that they've done what they have for years, made absolutely minor alterations to the CPU after having feedback on the game, and included changes without any patch notes.

It's also not like I'm claiming stuff like 'shooting is now better' or that they've added extra animations etc etc, I think it's the exact same game just with some tiny parameters tweaked. Sure, it might not even show up unless you put it on its hardest difficulty and with the worst team in the entire game, but with those teams and settings, for me it's really clear to see.
 
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AntrAcsA said:
Spain has one of the worst internet conection, support ,like speed and ping in europe. Ask google for euro chart and u will see it. So they are did not cheat if u has lag or something like that. In pes6j servers has aspanish players and they ar3 always lag or hav3 lag. It's not they faults
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I know, I can live with the fact that they do have bad connection and game runs not good , but a lot of spanish players do that cheat with disconnecting match and its their fault, also today I came home at 16:00 , and I wanted to play some games of football, unlucky for me 1st game was special match for 5 mil reward with some spanish player, first half ran good without problems, in second half I scored my 2nd goal, I was leading 2:1, 15 minutes before the end he stopped the game and lagfest began, why it was running good till that ? They do it on purpose, I was reading that on the other forum.
Of course he knows that its lagging so he started to run with Messi as maniac untill he scored and I was lucky not to loose the game, I never thought about scoring winning goal, because if I d do it, he would disconnect me again, what some people do on this game is beyond anything I ve ever witnessed on any game ever.
 
Ok, I am done with this game, I am online player, ( as probably the most of playersd all around the world, thats why FIFA is topseller ), and this cheating in simply unbelieveble.
KONAMI is doing nothing against it . Why would they ?
They cheated their customers since PES 2008, and I so they are fine with cheating.
If someone wants to play online I warn you dont buy this game, I spoke to my friend yesterday and he asked me if PES 2013 is any good ( former big fan, now FIFA manual player), I said dont even bother with this shit. 1 month ago maybe I would say go and buy it.

TOP players in MLO are all chetaers and 90% of em from spain of course , they probably dont loose game playing outlanders, , , some guy has like 1000 W and few looses , this is unbelieveble, he probably finishes the game if he is loosing only if he plays with spanish player.

I played few of those guys, the are worthless shit, dont even know what football is, smashing trinagle , running with Ronaldo while they lagg you as hell, and if this is not enough to winn and you beat em , they do micracle to their router so they get disconnects without loosing their games, cheating cheating cheating.
KONAMI IS FINE WITH THIS, well I am fine with it too, and I am done with this game and this "company", i am sorry that i was supporting this idiots by buying another of their unfinished broken product.
 
Miro said:
Brainwashed mode activated
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I can't help it if you just don't get it. Nothing I can do can change that, you either appreciate football or you don't. You obviously fall into the latter.

I could spend a full day writing down everything that is so right with PES, but it would be wasted on ears like yours. So I won't.
 
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Suuuuupertalk said:
My switch to another ML career is identical.
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See how ML is treating you in 20 games' time. I bet you'll be back here with another epic rant about how the game is stiffing you once more. (Rants that most readers of this forum absolutely love, by the way. Keep 'em coming!)

I'm several seasons in and the game changes its character over time. You'll run into bizarre and inexplicable 0-5 thumpings again soon enough. It's in ML's essential character to behave in this liquid, Protean fashion from one session to the next, and one season to the next.

Then you'll no doubt reinstall the patch and embark upon another 'different' ML. Then no doubt we'll have 1.02, and the post-patch cycle will start all over again. It's been going on for years, since PES2010. As I think I said in an almost identical exchange last year, over time the dissenting voices go silent, giving the illusion of consensus that there were gameplay changes. But it is an illusion. There were no changes and you are deluded! So there!

See you after 1.02.
 
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Keith Houchen said:
See how ML is treating you in 20 games' time. I bet you'll be back here with another epic rant about how the game is stiffing you once more. (Rants that most readers of this forum absolutely love, by the way. Keep 'em coming!)

I'm several seasons in and the game changes its character over time. You'll run into bizarre and inexplicable 0-5 thumpings again soon enough. It's in ML's essential character to behave in this liquid, Protean fashion from one session to the next, and one season to the next.

Then you'll no doubt reinstall the patch and embark upon another 'different' ML. Then no doubt we'll have 1.02, and the post-patch cycle will start all over again.
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I just love your eloquence and cynicism in equal measure, Mr H.

For the record I understand both sides of this debate, and can appreciate both perspectives.
 
Keith Houchen said:
See how ML is treating you in 20 games' time. I bet you'll be back here with another epic rant about how the game is stiffing you once more. (Rants that most readers of this forum absolutely love, by the way. Keep 'em coming!)

I'm several seasons in and the game changes its character over time. You'll run into bizarre and inexplicable 0-5 thumpings again soon enough. It's in ML's essential character to behave in this liquid, Protean fashion from one session to the next, and one season to the next.

Then you'll no doubt reinstall the patch and embark upon another 'different' ML. Then no doubt we'll have 1.02, and the post-patch cycle will start all over again. It's been going on for years, since PES2010. As I think I said in an almost identical exchange last year, over time the dissenting voices go silent, giving the illusion of consensus that there were gameplay changes. But it is an illusion. There were no changes and you are deluded! So there!

See you after 1.02.
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I understand what you're saying, and why you're saying it. There is a change from one session to the next, from season to season. I get that.

This is more concrete though. There was a sudden and complete shift between the patches from one long consecutive run of games to the other. I got thrashed 4 and 5-0 every game for pretty much an entire season. Barring 4 matches where I didn't get hammered, the rest were total wipeouts.

I then remove the patch not only to the games ebb and flow differently, but tackling is visibly more effective. And all of a sudden, as soon as I remove the patch I'm suddenly winning a lot of games and keeping clean sheets.

The way PES plays is indeed fluid, changing from one session to the next, but not to that extent. To take an absolute pounding, game after game, over several sessions during the course of a week, and then remove the patch and every session since being totally different, then I'd suggest it's not a placebo. Not for this amount of consecutive games.

But whatever, I'm not going to convince you. But I am baffled how you've never noticed any changes in game difficulty from patch to patch in previous versions. There was a clear difference in last year's game from the out of the box version to the next couple of patches, but again, that's up to you.

Either way it doesn't matter. I'm now enjoying the game and if you are too, then that's great.
 
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Loving that there is another Luton Town guy in this thread.

I have NEVER played master league (ML) only tried master league online (MLO) last year and felt everyone had superstar team before i even kicked a ball.

This year i have managed to sign a few decent players myself but still find myself up against awesome teams, with little or no chance of containing their super fast players with my also ran defenders...


Last years patch saw a massive change in the GK ability IMO. This years patch i did not play enough pre patch to comment
 
The Patch debate rages on!
It happened last year, this year, and will probably happen next year too.

I Played 18 seasons on ML last season, across all the various patches, and am 4 seasons into my PES13 ML this year, across both the out-of-the-box game and the latest patch.
Konami DO tweak certain things with patches that they don't report in any patch notes, this is fact, maybe not wholesale massive changes but as LT said, subtle parameters here and there, and the reason they don't release any patch notes isn't because they haven't made changes, its because for some reason, they are not aware of how a multi-million dollar professional software development studio should act, ie documenting changes to a products life cycle, in a lot of cases they are quite frankly, incompetent at the basics.

On the flip side, there is almost this 'magical dice' thats hidden in the guts of PES that gets rolled every time you boot up Master League and it determines the kind of session you will have. Now I say this not as fact of course but as in there are variables that make ML play differently from one game to the next, or one session to the next.

I started season 4 over the weekend with 4 back to back hammerings, 4-0,4-1,3-0 and 3-1 - Every team seemed superhuman, unplayable, tackles weren't working, the CPU wonder dribbled past my players, passes were off all the time... It was awful.
I turned the PS3 off and came back a few hours later and had a session where I played the top team, and Spurs in the FA Cup, this time I played flowing football, defended well and won half the games I played and dew a few. The ones I did lose were close games vs better teams.
I didnt remove any patch, I didnt change anything, its just how ML behaves, there is an intentional randomiser coded in that gives a different gamer play experience from session to session, whether this is 'right' or realistic is another thing but its aimed at increasing longevity, and is part of Konami's 'scripting' that is so blatantly evident within the PES series.
 
SteelHorse75 said:
Love your rants but I think you are desparate to love the game.
The amount of phaffing around you have done with it is unreal.
Im done with it. Sold it on ebay yesterday.
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Not really, I do love the game, I think it's the best football game ive played yet. All I'm claiming is that essentially Konami 'upped' the difficulty in the patch through some minor tweaks.

I've done next to no phaffing around really. I'm essentially now playing as it was out of the box on day of release, and did my own transfer updates. That's it.
 
Miro said:
Ok, I am done with this game, I am online player, ( as probably the most of playersd all around the world, thats why FIFA is topseller ), and this cheating in simply unbelieveble.
KONAMI is doing nothing against it . Why would they ?
They cheated their customers since PES 2008, and I so they are fine with cheating.
If someone wants to play online I warn you dont buy this game, I spoke to my friend yesterday and he asked me if PES 2013 is any good ( former big fan, now FIFA manual player), I said dont even bother with this shit. 1 month ago maybe I would say go and buy it.

TOP players in MLO are all chetaers and 90% of em from spain of course , they probably dont loose game playing outlanders, , , some guy has like 1000 W and few looses , this is unbelieveble, he probably finishes the game if he is loosing only if he plays with spanish player.

I played few of those guys, the are worthless shit, dont even know what football is, smashing trinagle , running with Ronaldo while they lagg you as hell, and if this is not enough to winn and you beat em , they do micracle to their router so they get disconnects without loosing their games, cheating cheating cheating.
KONAMI IS FINE WITH THIS, well I am fine with it too, and I am done with this game and this "company", i am sorry that i was supporting this idiots by buying another of their unfinished broken product.
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Agree with majority of this unfortunately.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I can't help it if you just don't get it. Nothing I can can change that, you either appreciate football or you don't. You obviously fall into the latter.

I could spend a full day writing down everything that is so right with PES, but it would be wasted on ears like yours. So I won't.
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Exactly how I feel with some people, there is no point whatsoever.

I'm not saying PES 2013 is a perfect sim, none of us are, but there are people who completely fail to understand some of the gameplay elements.
I don't play hardcore racing sims very often, they frustrate me as they are bloody difficult, but I don't start saying "The handling is broken, I can't even complete a lap", which is pretty much the equivalent of what some guy in the crossing tips thread was doing.
 
This game is so so beautiful. Waiting for Daymos OF to drop so been playing Konami cup with Ajax.

Some of my football is sublime at times.
 
Agreed. Can't see what all the fuss is about. Excellent game on the park. As for online etc, I really couldn't comment, never venture there.
 
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