PES 2013 Discussion Thread

[Lami]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

We really need a demo to experience what Adam has experienced. Screens and vids won't do me any good. Need to get my hands on this thing to try all the manual passing and shooting.

 

[shoemaker]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

They should release early demo's for Joe Public to play. Get as much feedback from the fans as possible in plenty of time for changes that can be made to the game to happen......

Ive said this once before like but only letting a few blog sites and Journo's playing it doesnt help the development of the game as they wont be brutally honest through fear that Konami will cut them off.

 

[kouroux]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ping pong passing still exists. Which makes me think ping pong shooting and crossing are still there. Funny how Konami proudly include it in their trailers every year. This is something EA have been trying to fix every year, albeit slow, FIFA 13 is actually looking like a real football game.

First touch control, this is only going to add to arcady feel of PES , with players now knocking the ball up at every opportunity to lob a defender or perform an overhead. How many times you see that in real football?
Add the terrible animations and limited player individuality and the broke stamina system. GG.

I'm out

Edit: Forgot to mention the superhuman frame to frame contain defending. Already seen it in FIFA and it blows.

You can't be real..
This is a videogame after all, if the user wants to find a way to play like a spastic, he will without.Whether he's given the tools or not.The flick won't be a problem, it'll be the people who'll abuse it.That's why I hope it won't be easy to pull off but even if it still is it's a risk worth taking.

 

[jammiedodger]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Am I the only one concerned over the focus on a select 50 players having unique procedural animations?

I'm not being elitist here, since I know the majority of us that played PES 11 MLO went out of our way to avoid such players. Dedicating so much time to cosmetic touches to players many of us dont even use seems a big waste of resources tbh.

I thought the animations looked fine really. PES has always looked slightly dated to other games, why does it matter? It's insignificant, it's not something you notice after a week of playing.

Overall I'm fairly disappointed though. Obviously it's only a video but there was nothing there to suggest it'd be a more balanced game. More guided passes, quicker, emphasis on dribbling.

I've tried to get into MLO but haven't the time that the youngsters have. They must play 5-6 hours a day get millions of pounds and just buy a team of superstars. My team is worth just under 40 million and its is nice to every now again get a win against these guys but more often than not my team are totally knackered by half time and can't go a whole game which is ridiculous in itself. But with defending hopefully sorted in 2013 maybe I'll have a chance. Its just to hit and miss this year. Top players seem to walk through tackles from poorer players.

 

[Shikashi]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

- what about the clipping issues are those fixed, or are we still be able to run tru players, wachting a ball going tru a keepers body

- I thought they were saying the game is slower then pes2012 - didnt look like it

It depends on their physics engine, but if it's just the same as last year, then no.

Promotional video, you really can't tell from it if it's slower or not.

Am I the only one concerned over the focus on a select 50 players having unique procedural animations?

I'm not being elitist here, since I know the majority of us that played PES 11 MLO went out of our way to avoid such players. Dedicating so much time to cosmetic touches to players many of us dont even use seems a big waste of resources tbh.

I thought the animations looked fine really. PES has always looked slightly dated to other games, why does it matter? It's insignificant, it's not something you notice after a week of playing.

Overall I'm fairly disappointed though. Obviously it's only a video but there was nothing there to suggest it'd be a more balanced game. More guided passes, quicker, emphasis on dribbling.

How is having world renowned players do mo-cap for your football game a bad thing? How does that negatively impact the game? That they're "wasting resources"? Not really. They were wasting resources by buying CL licenses, they're not wasting resources by having proper animation and mo-cap. Moving forward, that's the way to go. At some point, hopefully, we'll have PES with graphics that can be mistaken for reality in certain situations, kinda like GT5.

I don't see how motion capture is a bad thing, to be honest, but whatever.

The animations don't look fine, they're horrible.

 

[Topaz]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Anyone have any idea when the demo will come out?

 

[Isslander]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

There are always these posts about Adam at WENB popping up now and then - give it a rest, I listen to their podcasts and they give pretty good insight into the games, I don't take everything they say as ironclad truth, it's just their opinion, if it offends you that much just don't read or listen to them. It's like every year they have somehow deeply let down half the PES community, it can be amusing to read but is mostly boring.

@Mehtab: Not soon. 1st demo was out pretty early last year, sept 10 or something? Can't remember.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The new animations have genuine gameplay impacts in certain cases, as has been said in a few different areas now. Things like Xavi being able to turn more quickly, for example, or Iniesta being able to sidestep sharply. Plus, as Konami themselves said, this isn't just the top 50 players in the world, but 50 famous players who do certain things in a unique way. That's a hell of a lot, I think.

More importantly, PES has always been about having lots of touches that you don't notice immediately, so the game keeps giving you something new several months in. Whether it's the ball hitting the corner flag, offside goals, players like Del Piero having unique lob types, or Raul being able to pull off Cruyff turns, or certain tricks that were practically impossible to pull off. There has always been attention to more than just the gameplay to evoke passion and build an atmosphere. Having a few touches like this across the game gives the impression that there are even more touches waiting to be uncovered (even if there aren't). In the case of this thing with 50 players, provided they're not too focussed on the top few clubs and some middling sides get some treatment, it will make other players feel even more unique.

Lastly, remember that this year's 40-50 will/could be next year's 80-100.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ping pong passing still exists. Which makes me think ping pong shooting and crossing are still there. Funny how Konami proudly include it in their trailers every year. This is something EA have been trying to fix every year, albeit slow, FIFA 13 is actually looking like a real football game.

First touch control, this is only going to add to arcady feel of PES , with players now knocking the ball up at every opportunity to lob a defender or perform an overhead. How many times you see that in real football?
Add the terrible animations and limited player individuality and the broke stamina system. GG.

I'm out

Edit: Forgot to mention the superhuman frame to frame contain defending. Already seen it in FIFA and it blows.

yea i fucking hat eping pong passing. bullshit from konami and fifa. get rid of that shit please.

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

They should release early demo's for Joe Public to play. Get as much feedback from the fans as possible in plenty of time for changes that can be made to the game to happen......

I don't believe that's a good thing. It can be both good and bad. A double edged sword. Fans might complain about game being too hard and ruin it for the rest of us for example.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I don't believe that's a good thing. It can be both good and bad. A double edged sword. Fans might complain about game being too hard and ruin it for the rest of us for example.

that is exactly what happened in PES12 demo. most here moaned how it was too difficult and of course konami listened and dumbed it down and those same people moaned again

 

[Gab_]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ah Backspin Shots, my old nemesis, so we meet again. Well unless FIFA fix their AI I'll guess I have to accept the horrible ball physics one more year.

 

[dannyfc2]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

The new animations have genuine gameplay impacts in certain cases, as has been said in a few different areas now. Things like Xavi being able to turn more quickly, for example, or Iniesta being able to sidestep sharply. Plus, as Konami themselves said, this isn't just the top 50 players in the world, but 50 famous players who do certain things in a unique way. That's a hell of a lot, I think.

Yeah, but, so what? PES is a horrible game when you pit Barcelona vs. Real Madrid, AC Milan vs. Manchester City, suped up player's bring out the worst in the game, and thats always been the case as far back as the first PES. Why else would there be leagues dedicated to specifically using teams without these players? Why else do all of us avoid buying such players in our 2011 MLO campaigns?

It's nice that players have their own nuances and little touches, but its redundant if those with OVRLs of less than 75 are still only marginally different. PES took a big step back in that respect last year, so it's disappointing that individuality is limited to the elite rather than the majority of players that are the core of the game. I'm not saying they could realistically capture animations for each, but they could certainly make the difference in attributes more pronounced. Implementing the imperfections lower down the rung that many of us were calling for in the suggestions thread.

How is having world renowned players do mo-cap for your football game a bad thing? How does that negatively impact the game? That they're "wasting resources"? Not really. They were wasting resources by buying CL licenses, they're not wasting resources by having proper animation and mo-cap. Moving forward, that's the way to go. At some point, hopefully, we'll have PES with graphics that can be mistaken for reality in certain situations, kinda like GT5.

I don't see how motion capture is a bad thing, to be honest, but whatever.

The animations don't look fine, they're horrible.

It doesnt harm the game, per se. But it takes away from valuable development time that could used more effectively in areas that are far more in need of an overhaul.

Animations provide a function but they don't make the game more playable beyond a certain point. Would I have played PES 2012 more this year if it looked photo realistic? No. I'd have been wowed to begin with, and then become annoyed by the same gameplay aspects inherent that discentivise me from playing. Animations are a cover that is only surface deep, otherwise we'd all be playing FIFA and admiring it's fluid, seamless transitions, and not condemning its rigid archaic gameplay.

Konami should definitely look to improve upon them, I agree, but they really arent the be and end all that people make them out to be.

 

[dannyfc2]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I don't believe that's a good thing. It can be both good and bad. A double edged sword. Fans might complain about game being too hard and ruin it for the rest of us for example.

Yeah I'm not a massive fan of feedback centric development. Just leads to watering down to cater to the masses. One look at the suggestions thread where you'll see posts that list the different types of boots and nets that need implementing is testament to that.

The team should have a focused ideology of what they want the game to be and structure development around that. Trying to deliver everyone's expectations just means no-one ends up satisfied.

 

[romagnoli]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Yeah, but, so what?

So what for this year? Ask the millions who do actually use big sides, or play ML against big sides, or play offline with mates who use big sides, or who use one of the smaller sides who will have a star attributed to it.

So what for the long term, when you get more and more players who have this sort of treatment? Seriously?

PES is a horrible game when you pit Barcelona vs. Real Madrid, AC Milan vs. Manchester City, suped up player's bring out the worst in the game, and thats always been the case as far back as the first PES.

Why else would there be leagues dedicated to specifically using teams without these players? Why else do all of us avoid buying such players in our 2011 MLO campaigns?

It's a lot worse now than it was, sure. As far back as the first PES is a little OTT to say the least. I'd say PES 5 and 6 were only spoilt by one or two players, whereas PES 2012 is spoilt by anyone with a speed merchant card, among others.

It's nice that players have their own nuances and little touches, but its redundant if those with OVRLs of less than 75 are still only marginally different. PES took a big step back in that respect last year, so it's disappointing that individuality is limited to the elite rather than the majority of players that are the core of the game. I'm not saying they could realistically capture animations for each, but they could certainly make the difference in attributes more pronounced. Implementing the imperfections lower down the rung that many of us were calling for in the suggestions thread.

I certainly don't think 10 of the players will be from Barca, 10 from Real, 10 from Bayern and 20 from Utd and City. You'll probably struggle to find people with ratings of 75 or less that have any specific animations, but I doubt it's going to be limited to 90+ rated players.

Last year dumbed down by removing stats and traits and making dribbling less varied, no question. I know stuff is being done to improve individuality outside of the work on these 50 stars (including fixing some of the 2012 changes that took away from it). Remember that just because something isn't being trumpeted in a press release, doesn't mean nothing's being done.

It doesnt harm the game, per se. But it takes away from valuable development time that could used more effectively in areas that are far more in need of an overhaul.

Animations provide a function but they don't make the game more playable beyond a certain point. Would I have played PES 2012 more this year if it looked photo realistic? No. I'd have been wowed to begin with, and then become annoyed by the same gameplay aspects inherent that discentivise me from playing. Animations are a cover that is only surface deep, otherwise we'd all be playing FIFA and admiring it's fluid, seamless transitions, and not condemning its rigid archaic gameplay.

Konami should definitely look to improve upon them, I agree, but they really arent the be and end all that people make them out to be.

Animations are more than just aesthetic. They're an important visual indicator of gameplay situations - when a striker is on the balls of his feet to break the offside trap, precisely when a player is able to take another touch, when a defender has committed his momentum and can be wrong-footed, when a player is or isn't well positioned to shoot for a particular part of goal (and the right animation being used to reflect that).

They make a game playable up to (and beyond) that point because they give you feedback. They aren't just a cover unless they are designed to only be surface deep - in football games a big part of how the game communicates gameplay situations to you. FIFA is doing everything in reverse, framing the gameplay substance within their animations, never colouring over the lines. It is getting there in a lot of respects, though 'there' is still a few years away.

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 2013 - Pre-E3 2012 Featurette - PS3 Xbox360

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Goddamn it Konami the ball physics STILL look like a Heavy Marble on a FUCKING Glass table!!!

Marble... Glass... Where have I heard that before...?

 

[_anderson]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Still the movement animation not fixed, the defensive line bug still exist and the AI is like a robot, never makes mistake. Good job PES on your way to the arcade world.

P.S. Keepers are gods. Never makes mistake.

Incredible, you have amazing visual perception! You took all that from that vid? What kind of sorcery is this? :o

 

[curdstar]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Player ID is but one part - a unique visual one - to the overall improvement to player individuality. It operates independently to things like stats and Player Index Cards, which Adam was told they were looking to enhance/inprove in any case. What we could find is that there will be more ''stats unique'' or ''Player Index unique'' animations in the offing as well. Player ID is a headline feature.

People say the animations are just ''more of the same'', I would say there is ''more variety in animations being added to that which already existed, unique player specific animations in the form of Player ID as well as new animations coming into play as a result of some new mechanics''. It's not headline grabbing but it is ''more'', which the game needed when considering PES2012 (which wasn't completely ugly)and we look as though we are getting that.

 

[Arthur Young]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Curdstar are you going to any Konami events in the near future?

 

[AntrAcsA]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I feel very strange now. I'm happy with what I saw in the trailer, but do not stop to think about the Fox and the new generation who will come after a year or two. But some things in the trailer I saw did not like it. I doubt that the CPU and not only he, and players will spam this R2 close control. Of the video to see how the players do just that, passing also not liked me, no connection between the animation, the strength of leg swing speed and ball but this problem is old, appear in PES 2011. On first and foremost want to see Fox engine in action, trailer or teaser

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I feel very strange now. I'm happy with what I saw in the trailer, but do not stop to think about the Fox and the new generation who will come after a year or two.

Same here. My mind's occupied with next-gen now. This feels like the PES 6 times. Looking forward to it yet greatly anticipating the next-gen version. The game after PES 6 were very similar to it and didn't change much. Maybe the same will happen now. Not even that concerned about 2013 tbh.

 

[curdstar]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Curdstar are you going to any Konami events in the near future?

I am down for the June 13th playtest, with only some rescheduling required to ensure I make it.

 

[dannyfc2]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

So what for this year? Ask the millions who do actually use big sides, or play ML against big sides, or play offline with mates who use big sides, or who use one of the smaller sides who will have a star attributed to it.

So what for the long term, when you get more and more players who have this sort of treatment? Seriously?

Don't understand what you're getting at here. Is it a big headline feature that will draw in casual gamers with a superstar fetishism? Of course. I'm just saying it isn't that big a deal to me.

It's a lot worse now than it was, sure. As far back as the first PES is a little OTT to say the least. I'd say PES 5 and 6 were only spoilt by one or two players, whereas PES 2012 is spoilt by anyone with a speed merchant card, among others.

I certainly don't think 10 of the players will be from Barca, 10 from Real, 10 from Bayern and 20 from Utd and City. You'll probably struggle to find people with ratings of 75 or less that have any specific animations, but I doubt it's going to be limited to 90+ rated players.

I've played intensively online since PES4, and the games involving lower ranked teams were always preferred as it allowed a much more measured, considered match. If it's top 50 then it'll be no less than someone rated 85, which pretty much limits it to most of the top 4 of the major leagues.

Last year dumbed down by removing stats and traits and making dribbling less varied, no question. I know stuff is being done to improve individuality outside of the work on these 50 stars (including fixing some of the 2012 changes that took away from it). Remember that just because something isn't being trumpeted in a press release, doesn't mean nothing's being done.

If true that is excellent news, does this mean re-introducing attributes, cards? Removing the problematic ones?

Animations are more than just aesthetic. They're an important visual indicator of gameplay situations - when a striker is on the balls of his feet to break the offside trap, precisely when a player is able to take another touch, when a defender has committed his momentum and can be wrong-footed, when a player is or isn't well positioned to shoot for a particular part of goal (and the right animation being used to reflect that).

They make a game playable up to (and beyond) that point because they give you feedback. They aren't just a cover unless they are designed to only be surface deep - in football games a big part of how the game communicates gameplay situations to you. FIFA is doing everything in reverse, framing the gameplay substance within their animations, never colouring over the lines. It is getting there in a lot of respects, though 'there' is still a few years away.

I agree - to an extent. But that relates more to quantity rather than quality. There needs to be a broad range of shot technique animations, off the ball indicators etc., but as long as it clear exactly what their function is, I don't feel they have to be 100% accurate representations.

One of the reasons PES is so jarring aesthetically is due the series of different animations that 'snap' from one to the other. I think when you try and make it more seamless like in FIFA, you just end up limiting the depth by reducing the number of possible outcomes, if that at all makes sense. Rather then a series of contextual animations that impact the outcome, you have a long series of fluid transitions where the outcome is already predetermined. Hence why games like Unchartered are so visually appealing but incredibly limited in scope.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Same here. My mind's occupied with next-gen now. This feels like the PES 6 times. Looking forward to it yet greatly anticipating the next-gen version. The game after PES 6 were very similar to it and didn't change much. Maybe the same will happen now. Not even that concerned about 2013 tbh.

A shame Konami dont have the balls to release next gen PES now on PC only on dx11 framework and start testing and ironing out the bugs for the next gen PES intime for the new consoles to come out.

wasted opprtunity for konami IMO

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

But we dont know what goes on behind closed doors. We dont even have confirmed dates for next gen consoles so punting a next gen game would be insignificant. It would be perceived by the consumer that they have given up on the current gen.

As far as the videos and news goes I am happy with player ID etc, etc but I hope core gameplay issues are fixed.

What I liked about seabass presentations last year they should how the AI has been changed and other gameplay elements. The mere fact that player animation and movement is a big trump card for Konami worries me.

PES2012 against Human and AI is deeply flawed setting up a 433 formation and letting the AI defend for you and punting long balls or throughballs reaps far too much reward. This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

The catch up bug is another thing that bothers me. It seems that most fans want to be able to put a speedy player in space and outrun the defence which is not what happens on a football pitch for 90 minutes.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

But we dont know what goes on behind closed doors. We dont even have confirmed dates for next gen consoles so punting a next gen game would be insignificant. It would be perceived by the consumer that they have given up on the current gen.

As far as the videos and news goes I am happy with player ID etc, etc but I hope core gameplay issues are fixed.

What I liked about seabass presentations last year they should how the AI has been changed and other gameplay elements. The mere fact that player animation and movement is a big trump card for Konami worries me.

PES2012 against Human and AI is deeply flawed setting up a 433 formation and letting the AI defend for you and punting long balls or throughballs reaps far too much reward. This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

The catch up bug is another thing that bothers me. It seems that most fans want to be able to put a speedy player in space and outrun the defence which is not what happens on a football pitch for 90 minutes.

The likes of Unreal and cryteck have all testes next gen stuff on pc firsts. especialy the guys who made unreal. if it wasnt fr "epic". you wont see the awsemones of the millions of titles out today on your consoles run in the unreal engine.

It would be great if Konami did what epic done. release PES12 next gen on pc, get it running nice, also help promote pc gaming a bit better and then after release it out in the wild to ps4/xbox 3

 

[romagnoli]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Don't understand what you're getting at here. Is it a big headline feature that will draw in casual gamers with a superstar fetishism? Of course. I'm just saying it isn't that big a deal to me.

So the answer to 'who doesn't care' is 'you'. I certainly care though, and I never use the top sides except when playing demos. I think it's a great idea, long term, and a lot of it can be carried over from year 1 to year 2 and year 3 as more players get additional animations and specific traits. It also means that better players can have their individuality demonstrated in more ways than just ramping up their stats, which could be beneficial for us as people who have to face these top players.

I've played intensively online since PES4, and the games involving lower ranked teams were always preferred as it allowed a much more measured, considered match.

The first online PES you meant then!

That is just as closely related to the type of people you're facing. People who are more likely to use the lesser teams are more likely to play 'properly', because winning isn't everything to them. I'm sure you and I could have a game with Real and Barca that is more measured and considered than two of your standard online spammers using lesser sides. I used to play a Dutch guy on PES 5 using teams like Ajax, Rangers, Feyenoord etc, but also with Netherlands, England, Argentina, Valencia... and every game was fantastic.

If it's top 50 then it'll be no less than someone rated 85, which pretty much limits it to most of the top 4 of the major leagues.

It's not top 50 as in "sort all the PES players by OVR and then work on the top 50". It's 50 high profile players who have a particular behaviour unique to them.

If true that is excellent news, does this mean re-introducing attributes, cards? Removing the problematic ones?

See Curd's comments.

 

[Topaz]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Incredible, you have amazing visual perception! You took all that from that vid? What kind of sorcery is this? :o

You will see when it will came out.

 

[JimboPL]

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I'm looking forward to this next-gen PES with fox engine.
This 2013 looks like repainting old wreck.