PES 2013 Discussion Thread

Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Wilko22 said:
Searched through my videos for an obvious example of inertia, so I didn't have to upload another one. This is the best example I could find. Roman feigns a pass as the onrushing defender goes to intercept, the defender has all his bodyweight moving towards the pass that never came and stumbles away from Riquelme who's then given a vital bit of room to pick out a more effective pass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaKnUOStswU&feature=player_detailpage#t=56s

I love the moments you can shift your bodyweight slightly on the ball throwing the defender off balance but without hardly deviating from your course.
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To be fair, that animation is a canned response to a shot cancel, but I see your point. Of all the things PES can be critisized for, inertia is not one of them. One only has to move the stick at sharp angles to notice its effects.

PES 12 for me was a man VS man game and there was nothing I loved more than subtly changing direction and speed to wrong-foot human controlled defenders. PES 13 looks to follow in those footsteps and goes further by adding manual tackle.

However...

My AI teammates are still a bunch of lackwits and dullards, which makes playing against the CPU a royal pain in the punanny. I just played a game where I only controlled one player (a striker) and let my teammates do everything else. Tell me why at the end of the match we had committed 8 fouls while they had absolutely none. For the life of me I just cannot understand why they make the player's team so stupid to the point of being practically useless.

I like to play against my friends, but sometimes a man needs to play with himself.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Agree with Wilko. There seems to have been a 180 turn of opinion from some people here regarding manual passing. It has gone from being against the ethos of PES to now being the willy-wavers' control method of choice. I don't get it.

Manual passing is not consist enough. Sometimes a quick tap of the pass button will send a pass 15 yards, the same tap again can send another ball two yards. For this simple reason it's not an option for me.

I've always liked FIFA's semi-assisted passing and PES's one or two bar passing recreates that nicely. A nice compromise of freedom and playability. I don't want to be struggling to make ten yard passes. That's not replicating something any pro footballer can do in his sleep.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Wilko22 said:
Well yeah, "the guy" is me, the reason I'm using 1 bar assistance is because I find manual passing is a bit temperamental in this game, specifically for the shorter passes, the power bar seems to be all over the place. I'd always played with manual settings online and offline on Fifa and never had the same issues as I have with PES. Maybe it'll be different in the final game, but until then I'm quite happy playing offline with these settings, I still get the freedom from the manual pass modifier, I don't even use the through ball button anymore because a manual pass is adequate (as demonstrated in the video).

Last year we had people saying manual was no good for PES and it should never be introduced as it goes against Seabass's great philosophy, now it's the opposite and assisted users are practicing the dark arts - I'm so confused! :BLINK:

I'm also back with assisted shooting for now at least for a few days, I do enjoy manual shooting to an extent but I'm not entirely convinced it takes stats into consideration (other than for power), frequently I'm finding the top corner of the net with everyone and anyone - or maybe it's just my superior shooting brain :P
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Stat based manual is Konami's philosophy, I use zero assistance and making a pass with Pirlo is light years from making the same pass with Krasic for example. Fully manual would be a travesty.

PES zero assistance is something quite different.

And I apologise for insulting assisted players, I just think most do it because it's easier to string together barca like passing moves with very little skills.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
Agree with Wilko. There seems to have been a 180 turn of opinion from some people here regarding manual passing. It has gone from being against the ethos of PES to now being the willy-wavers' control method of choice. I don't get it.

Manual passing is not consist enough. Sometimes a quick tap of the pass button will send a pass 15 yards, the same tap again can send another ball two yards. For this simple reason it's not an option for me.

.
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Full manual, where it doesn't matter if you're passing with Iniesta or Sergio Ramos IS AGAINST Konami's philosophy, which, we believe, is an attempt at a true representation of football. Methinks you haven't played zero support enough if you think every pass is the same.

I'll give you the same advice for the second part of of your post, persistance, practice and knowing which player you're attempting the pass with is paramount. I have no constistancy issues on zero support, if I misplace a pass, it is because I was off balance, my aim was off or I was attempting too much with a limited player.

I'm sorry, but you sound like someone that tried zero support once, couldn't string together 20 passes ping-pong style to goal and then gave up.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

theCRO said:
Full manual, where it doesn't matter if you're passing with Iniesta or Sergio Ramos IS AGAINST Konami's philosophy, which, we believe, is an attempt at a true representation of football. Methinks you haven't played zero support enough if you think every pass is the same.

I'll give you the same advice for the second part of of your post, persistance, practice and knowing which player you're attempting the pass with is paramount. I have no constistancy issues on zero support, if I misplace a pass, it is because I was off balance, my aim was off or I was attempting too much with a limited player.

I'm sorry, but you sound like someone that tried zero support once, couldn't string together 20 passes ping-pong style to goal and then gave up.
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Then you're a poor judge of a person.

I never said every pass is the same. What I actually implied is that there is not enough consistency between controller input and resultant pass. It's not a case of balance or any of the usual excuses. Something is a little off with full manual passing.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

sincover said:
I like to play against my friends, but sometimes a man needs to play with himself.
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This needs more love.

Regarding passing assistance, we shouldn't split hairs over zero or 1 bar assistance. Now, if someone was using 3 or 4 bar assistance then yes, we would have to have a serious sit down and sternly lecture them on the error of their ways.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
Then you're a poor judge of a person.

I never said every pass is the same. What I actually implied is that there is not enough consistency between controller input and resultant pass. It's not a case of balance or any of the usual excuses. Something is a little off with full manual passing.
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its not inconsistent for me apart from when you pass first time, because 40% of the time theyll just tap it 2 yards, but thats a bug which will be fixed by launch (i hope...) other than that i dont have any inconsistency
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Matty_17 said:
its not inconsistent for me apart from when you pass first time, because 40% of the time theyll just tap it 2 yards, but thats a bug which will be fixed by launch (i hope...) other than that i dont have any inconsistency
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I can pass (high low and through) very consistently with L2 held down as opposed to playing on 0 pass assist.

So imo 0 pass is not done. It should practically feel the same as using L2 right? Or am i missing something here
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

dannyfc2 said:
I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

I persuaded THREE different people to give the PES demo a go this week, all fairly knowledgable football fans, all somewhat of FIFA players. And ALL of them couldn't stand it, said it was awful, even unplayable. :II

PES 11 was marmite, and I could understand people not clicking with it. But there's nothing in PES 13 that stands out as being inaccessible. It's just football. Even the animations and fluidity are almost on a par with FIFA now....I don't think I'm being blind am I? I called out PES 12 on all it's faults, but PES 13 is an absolute sublime game in my eyes. Only thing holding it back is the poor CPU, but surely that cannot be perceived immediately by new players?
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I think it's perfectly understandable when coming from Fifa. PES 2013-demo feels then clunky, unresponsive, really bad from a game point of view. Certainly PES 2013-demo has the better football-logic in it, but the game-mechanics are bad, really bad... and it's not just the animation and physics:

It's the broken playerswitching, the inconsistent powerbar, the bad refereeing, the abundance of non-flexible rails (alot of them still need supercancel to get out and then you lose momentum).

It can then feel like you are fighting more against the game-mechanics than playing against your opponent. And when you add the unbelievable defense-problems, ie. cb's leaving their positions and the cheating of the CPU-AI as well as their one-dimensional play...

There's no use in trying to convert Fifa-players with PES 2013, it's better to wait for the new engine to do that.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Matty_17 said:
its not inconsistent for me apart from when you pass first time, because 40% of the time theyll just tap it 2 yards, but thats a bug which will be fixed by launch (i hope...) other than that i dont have any inconsistency
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I can often pull of great first time passes using the manual modifier on zero assist, even lofted ones with the O plus modifier.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

amier said:
I can pass (high low and through) very consistently with L2 held down as opposed to playing on 0 pass assist.

So imo 0 pass is not done. It should practically feel the same as using L2 right? Or am i missing something here
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But because you are not on zero support, you can also pull off laser guided 30 meter pinpoint passes under pressure with back to target.

See, there's the gamebreaking advantage you, and other supported passing players, have over us zero support players that enjoy a simulation rather than a ping-pong arcade game.
 
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So PES has been an arcade ping-pong game till now? The critics of the game will be pleased to hear that.

Seriously I'm all for having manual only lobbies and such, but don't get on your high horse about it all of a sudden. I'm playing manual again now and quite enjoying the freedom (minus the issues with the selection of receiving players), but it's not the great challenge you're claiming it to be.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I like manual sometimes but don't use it all the time as it kills the flow of the game. You pass to a player who isn't expecting it, or runs away etc. Manual is good, but we have to remember this is a game after all, and is to be enjoyed as such. I want to enjoy and have fun knocking the ball around and building up moves as teams do in real life.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jamezinho said:
Agree with Wilko. There seems to have been a 180 turn of opinion from some people here regarding manual passing. It has gone from being against the ethos of PES to now being the willy-wavers' control method of choice. I don't get it.

Manual passing is not consist enough. Sometimes a quick tap of the pass button will send a pass 15 yards, the same tap again can send another ball two yards. For this simple reason it's not an option for me.

I've always liked FIFA's semi-assisted passing and PES's one or two bar passing recreates that nicely. A nice compromise of freedom and playability. I don't want to be struggling to make ten yard passes. That's not replicating something any pro footballer can do in his sleep.
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Yeah I'm not a fan either, I'm all for increased error and making ball retention more difficult, but manual never won me over in PES 12. As you say, the passing weight is never consistent enough. I don't believe the increased individuality arguments either, given that it's an area I'm very perceptive of I rarely felt much advantage in plotting a pass with D'Alessandro then I did with Gattuso under PES 12.

Plus, on the other side of the coin, it's allowed players to now use extreme levels of assistance online, more then any other PES before it.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy G-Force said:
I must admit, I'm also very curious these days about the whole PC PES scene. As much as I get tempted, it's very hard for me to justify as I'll only ever play PES on a PC gaming rig.
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I'd wait to see what the requirements are on the new engine mate. PES, at the moment, isn't a very demanding game at all. You could probably get it running smoothly on a £250-300 machine, I got the last one going on my shitheap of a laptop. But if you buy cheaply then next year find the Fox engine requires a big upgrade, probably won't be worth it.

Would recommend making the switch eventually tho. I got a decent PC last week since my laptop packed up, and I reckon the game runs infinitely better than on a console. Much clearer, sharper with a better framerate. Then you have all the patching options, and an online community where its easier to find more mature game.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy G-Force said:
Yes it is. It's an awesome experience, even the music and backdrops all change accordingly. There is a real genuine and highly authentic feel to European matches in ML, I live for them. :)
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Totally agree, slogging through the early ML seasons with awful players, building your squad, getting promoted, then eventually making the Europa League and Champions League is fantastic given the effort Konami make to make those games a spectacle. Seeing the menus and music change before a European match gives a real sense of having 'made it' with your team, so to speak. Brilliant.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Wilko22 said:
So PES has been an arcade ping-pong game till now? The critics of the game will be pleased to hear that.

Seriously I'm all for having manual only lobbies and such, but don't get on your high horse about it all of a sudden. I'm playing manual again now and quite enjoying the freedom (minus the issues with the selection of receiving players), but it's not the great challenge you're claiming it to be.
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You will win even 1 out of 10 games playing zero support against an opponent that uses assistance to his advantage, you will loose most games against such exploiters by ridiculous scorelines.

I think those football fans who are true fans appreciate the freedom and options, let alone the skill and football brain it takes, of unsupported passing. And as such, are on the highhorse when compared to those gamers who just want points with no regard to the beuatiful game and how it's supposed to be played.

Furthermore, I'm of the belief that Konami can take a giant stride to replicating it's former PS1 glory by simply punishing the ping-pong button mashers by way of huge point deductions for supported passing.

Let's not forget, supported passing gives you advantages including responsiveness of the receiver, very little regard for body positioning, very little regard for angles, defenders are locked so as not to intercept the obvious, through balls can be sprayed from everywhere, bullet passes are possible by quickly tapping the X under pressure, laser guided 40 meter off balance passes are common and can put out an entire defense etc. etc. etc.

The very fact that you don't see any of these things and believe it's not a great challange is indicative IMO. It's plain as day. I play in 2 zero assisted leagues and I play a heck of a lot of quick matches (1000+) against assisted passers mostly, I have a 28% win rate against the cowards and about a 70% win rate on PEEL.

The differences are immense, two completely different games.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

goalgerd said:
YouTube - ArquibanTube - Lançamento PES 2013

full brazilian league added
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new stadium added: Morumbi (Sao Paulo FC). And Konami's Brazil representative said they are trying to put regional Brazilian stadiums in the game, maybe with DLC's or in PES2014. They said they are trying to put the Maracana (Rio de Janeiro) as well.

estadiotop.jpg

Estádio do Morumbi
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Jimmy G-Force said:
Because you choose which direction the initial passer will advance towards, rather than just a straight run forward. A much better system,I found. When I played it of course.

It's still not my most perfect option though, I'd prefer the intelligence of the run to be based around players statistics, with the more clever and agile players making zig/zag style stop/start/ feinting/arcing runs in between tight gaps or back-lines. That would be the ultimate realism for me. nothing beats a clever run.
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Nothing beats a clever run, which is exactly why I love 2v2 mate. Well said.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

You know that if you play with unassisted cursor switching you can make some terrific off the ball runs yourself. I've mucked around with it and it can be good fun...but you rely on the AI passing the ball to you lol
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

theCRO said:
But because you are not on zero support, you can also pull off laser guided 30 meter pinpoint passes under pressure with back to target.

See, there's the gamebreaking advantage you, and other supported passing players, have over us zero support players that enjoy a simulation rather than a ping-pong arcade game.
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Don't conclude things that weren't said or even insinuated by me.
Thanks.

I'm not on zero support because it is inconsistent. The weight/feel should be like 1 pass assist but with 'manual' aim, but that's just my opinion. Like i said, if i use L2 for manual passes on 1 pass assist, it plays like a charm. Heck if i use L2 for the whole match it feels how it should feel playing on 0 assist.

Anyways, did anyone notice that the cpu reads your 'inputs' if you hold down and/or intermittently tap manual modifier L2 + direction you're facing if you play on assisted passing settings?
Because of this you can seriously mindfuck the cpu into thinking you're going to pass this way and go a different direction etc. The cpu will try to block your options by reading the directions you're facing so you can trigger a run on a different side for ex, and pass it there either manually or assisted. There are endless mindfuck options.

Speaking of referees, the refs are actually quite good in this game. You can tell by the way they punish you vs the cpu. :TWIST:
They should balance this out somewhat better in full release though.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I persuaded THREE different people to give the PES demo a go this week, all fairly knowledgable football fans, all somewhat of FIFA players. And ALL of them couldn't stand it, said it was awful, even unplayable.
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to me that could be from many different reasons but probably because they didn't play it enough. I think the more you play it the more you enjoy and start to appreciate this demo for starters. if they only played once or twice and stopped.. then I could see maybe some saying that about a game when they are use to play the other game only. unplayable is harsh... some already got it in their heads not to like before they even play it.. I didn't even own PES last year and I own FIFA 12.. but I honestly already like this demo more than FIFA 12's gameplay that's for sure. I'm not picky when it comes to graphics and it's the gameplay that matters most to me.. Something that keeps me coming back again and again trying to get better and better at it

I played PES/WE long ago though always so I'm no stranger to it's gameplay and I pick it up faster than someone that might be playing it for the first time so maybe that is also why I am enjoying it so much. I really haven't liked any of the footie games on PS3 yet as much as I did back on PS2.. I even gave up on PES and been playing FIFA the majority of the PS3 years but I never play it year round like I use to with the old school footie games that were that good.
 
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I play 1 bar passing assistance mostly so far.. I can get over 80% pass completion on 0 or 1 it don't matter but I enjoy the passing better on 1 bar.. not because I think it's easier but because it feels better so far imo

maybe I need to give it more of a try on 0... but my pass completion % is no different on one vs the other really..

You will win even 1 out of 10 games playing zero support against an opponent that uses assistance to his advantage, you will loose most games against such exploiters by ridiculous scorelines.
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You could very well be right but I don't agree with this as of right now.. that may be true in FIFA but for PES i really don't care if someone is playing full assisted vs me.. I feel i'm better with non fully assisted controls for how I play any ways and that i have the advantage because I can make certain passes to create scoring chances that a fully assisted player can't. I will wait and see.. but I feel I could beat people online if they used fully assisted controls vs me and if I used full manual. I feel I can still keep the majority of possession vs a fully assisted player online in this game if I was on full manual. I haven't tried it online yet so I could be proven wrong but I see no reason so far why I couldn't.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

I agree with thecro about there being no inconsistency issues with 0 support. I tried 1 bar support the other day after playing for the past year with 0 and it was horrible, the way passes were locking onto players was very obvious and it felt like being back in the ps2 days. I do understand some of the complaints with 0 support, players not realizing that passes are for them is one that is very annoying.
 
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Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

amier said:
Don't conclude things that weren't said or even insinuated by me.
Thanks.

I'm not on zero support because it is inconsistent. The weight/feel should be like 1 pass assist but with 'manual' aim, but that's just my opinion. Like i said, if i use L2 for manual passes on 1 pass assist, it plays like a charm. Heck if i use L2 for the whole match it feels how it should feel playing on 0 assist.
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1. You said you use pass support. Therefore you can make impossible passes and ping pong your way to goal, because Konami does the aiming and the weight of the pass for you moreso than is the case with zero support players who need to actually evaluate and pick their passes. You said it mate, not me.

2. I also use the manual modifier even on 0 support, but that means my laser guided 40 meter behind-the-back pinpoint passes hardly ever come off, while yours will thanks to your use of supports. Simple.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

CalcioCalabrese said:
You know that if you play with unassisted cursor switching you can make some terrific off the ball runs yourself. I've mucked around with it and it can be good fun...but you rely on the AI passing the ball to you lol
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I played with unassisted for a while back on the 2012 demo and while it took some getting used to I found that you can play some excellent football, there were things going on that I am sure wouldnt happen with semi assisted. I will have to try 2013 with unassisted because I thought I seen that you can disable the CPU passing and shooting which was one thing that put me off in 2012.
 
Re: PES 2013 Discussion Thread .......

Ern Dog said:
I agree with thecro about there being no inconsistency issues with 0 support. I tried 1 bar support the other day after playing for the past year with 0 and it was horrible, the way passes were locking onto players was very obvious and it felt like being back in the ps2 days. I do understand some of the complaints with 0 support, players not realizing that passes are for them is one that is very annoying.
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I tried with 1 bar support too not long ago and it was trully a horrible, scripted experience which constricts you, no need to aim properly or weigh your pass, just tap it roughly and off you go. The receiving player uses telepathy to home in and the defenders turn into tree stumps.

I know people will get upset at the whole holier-than-though attitude I'm displaying here, but using pass support against zero support players is really an unfair advantage, and more scripted to boot. An indefensible position imo.
 
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