PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

[Jamezinho]

Glad I'm not the only one struggling on Professional, was scared to say it almost

If feel like I'm at an alcoholics anonymous meeting.

My name is James, I play on professional and get routinely hammered. I'm not proud of it.

 

[DagsJT]

Not sure I've looked forward to a release of PES like this for years, if ever. I'm still tempted to go home at lunch and sneak some games in. I get home from work and I want to play more games. I'm going to bed later than usual, I'm bloody dreaming of playing PES over the last couple of days!

Can't wait to get an ML and BAL going. Not fussed on Club Boss at all though. Is anyone actually going to bother with it?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

If feel like I'm at an alcoholics anonymous meeting.

My name is James, I play on professional and get routinely hammered. I'm not proud of it.

Brilliant.

Dags,

Not a chance with Club Boss mode. I aint watching results when I can make those results happen. Or at least die trying...........

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Can we get the PES team the message that Possession play needs to be patched in? This is as big a deal as the "RunBug" fiasco.

 

[dach]

I just checked @JonMurphy_PES

and he retweets video of some bad glitches in fifa12

Is it just me or is this kind of behavior, a bit silly and childish

so I will tweet him all day with all those pes2012 videos floatin around showin how f*cked up the collision system is in pes2012 and all the other problems that needs 2 be adressed

how you guys do the same

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

It's a bad sell to be honest, that sort of tactic. It doesnt massively suprise me though, Konami seemed to be going quite aggressive against Fifa this year. The two Demo's justify that, and certainly the 'Assisted' nature of Demo 1.

 

[ezosk]

I just checked @JonMurphy_PES

and he retweets video of some bad glitches in fifa12

Is it just me or is this kind of behavior, a bit silly and childish

so I will tweet him all day with all those pes2012 videos floatin around showin how f*cked up the collision system is in pes2012 and all the other problems that needs 2 be adressed

how you guys do the same

Here's some material for you. I played two matches today. The best moments:

YouTube - pes 2012 demo

 

[MadbaLL]

I think it's too late

no, it's not too late if someone can send a message to konami team.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

It's a bad sell to be honest, that sort of tactic. It doesnt massively suprise me though, Konami seemed to be going quite aggressive against Fifa this year. The two Demo's justify that, and certainly the 'Assisted' nature of Demo 1.

I think they have been trying the last couple of years. They always held the outright game play crown, but on the PS3 they dropped into second in the majority of people oppinions (not mine). They have been working to get the crown back with the efforts they are putting in the game play, but it's going to be continous fight.

I think where we are at the minute there is only going to be tweaks to game. We need an updated platform for another leap in graphics and to perhaps take the game forward again, which sould hopefully come around for the 2014 release.

 

[Enzo]

I just checked @JonMurphy_PES

and he retweets video of some bad glitches in fifa12

Is it just me or is this kind of behavior, a bit silly and childish

so I will tweet him all day with all those pes2012 videos floatin around showin how f*cked up the collision system is in pes2012 and all the other problems that needs 2 be adressed

how you guys do the same

JonMurphy had seen similar videos about PES2012 too, nothing silly in that. Both games have glitches.

 

[darthexarkunpl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YAR6I_T-uVc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vOgpt6J47Nc

Some fun

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

If feel like I'm at an alcoholics anonymous meeting.

My name is James, I play on professional and get routinely hammered. I'm not proud of it.

LOL don't worry mate, it's not just you. The game has a habit of making you feel like you're getting better at it, then putting the boot right in! Was winning 1-0 at half time as Internacional, fairly comfortable, then the second half I literally didn't venture anywhere past the centre circle, such was the AI pressure. It was brilliant. It ended 1-1 and I should have lost. It's really hard!

As for people saying Top Player is easier, well played them! I tried it and got hammered 5-0

 

[pjft]

Can we get the PES team the message that Possession play needs to be patched in? This is as big a deal as the "RunBug" fiasco.

I would think this is quite an overstatement, I mean, sure it may be a problem, but I would hardly consider it at a similar level of the "Run Bug" fiasco, or even last years' goal-line-crossing-without-pressure problem that ended up being patched.

I'm pretty sure that in every PES so far, regardless of the difficulty, I usually end up having more possession than the CPU, averaging 60% consistently if I'm not mistaken, so... It doesn't seem to be something that's broken, just something that hasn't been fixed yet.

Cheers,

Paulo Tavares

 

[Lami]

About the professional level, I've always found it harder than top player, even back in PES 5 and 6. I think I remember testing and found that on top player cpu players gang up on you, which leaves gaps in the back and always easier to score. Professional was more balanced and always less gaps to be found. It's always been the same with every version since for me.

And now I know I ain't alone

(And this last line did make me feel like I'm at an alcohol meeting... lol)

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I would think this is quite an overstatement, I mean, sure it may be a problem, but I would hardly consider it at a similar level of the "Run Bug" fiasco, or even last years' goal-line-crossing-without-pressure problem that ended up being patched.

I'm pretty sure that in every PES so far, regardless of the difficulty, I usually end up having more possession than the CPU, averaging 60% consistently if I'm not mistaken, so... It doesn't seem to be something that's broken, just something that hasn't been fixed yet.

Cheers,

Paulo Tavares

Agreed. It's present in every football game I've ever played.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

About the professional level, I've always found it harder than top player, even back in PES 5 and 6. I think I remember testing and found that on top player cpu players gang up on you, which leaves gaps in the back and always easier to score. Professional was more balanced and always less gaps to be found. It's always been the same with every version since for me.

And now I know I ain't alone

(And this last line did make me feel like I'm at an alcohol meeting... lol)

I found Top Player easier on PES2011 because the AI tried to attack, Professional was so defence minded it was impossible to break down 11 man defences. Seems much more balanced in PES2012

 

[kgulls]

I played 7 games last night on the PES 12 Demo, and scored only one goal.

Jeez, I suck. I dont think I can ever remember a PES that was so hard to break down and master. Not even PES 5. I generally get to grips with the game after a good 20 hours or so. I must have clocked 50+ hours so far, and I'm still pretty shit.

Needless to say, I love it.

Edit - I did play one match with Spurs on 1 Bar Pass Assistance and the difference was quite dramatic. It felt so much easier than 'Zero', with alot less requirement for the weight of pass and direction. I did enjoy it, but being the kind of player that gets his kicks from the challenge, I had to switch straight back to 'Zero'. There is no doubt this Passing Assistance option will users a big advantage Online if not segregated.

Thats quite bizarre Jimmy because I had an almost identical session last night.Could'nt score or make a decent chance for the life of me either on Pro or Top Player.
Thats the beauty of this game though,don't you think?
One night it all klicks and you think Mmmm this is too easy.Will I get bored?
Next thing your thinking.I'm gonna spend a season at the wrong end of the table.
Great and addictive game for which,despite a few niggles, Konami should be given a great deal of credit.

 

[dannyfc2]

Default Master League Team

+Top Player

+Zero passing assistance

+Only allowed to sign Youth Players


= a challenge of colossal proportions.


Can't wait.


Shame the UK only receives it another two weeks after the EURO release.

 

[mdma11]

Have to agree with how difficult this game is. Demo 2 has a whole new difficulty compared to Demo 1. Every single year, no matter how much I struggle in the beginning, I start off with Top player. Same this year and man its taking me forever to learn this animal. I have been Bayern and beaten the two teams with ease but against Inter, I am like a punching bag for that team. I have beaten them here and there but overall, they own me. Last night, so frustrated and just decided to go hard defensively on them, lost 6-1. I can't remember last time a team scored 6 against me in any PES, maybe never.

My best advice to everyone which I just discovered last night. Play the possession game. Even if you have to pass back over and over again, just do it. You have to master passing I learned. Inter hasn't been able to beat me since I have been passing around in their half. Except for that one time when Pazzini scored and injury time goal. CPU sometimes feels like such a cheater but oh well, I will one day own them as I have done against the CPU with every single PES.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Thats quite bizarre Jimmy because I had an almost identical session last night.Could'nt score or make a decent chance for the life of me either on Pro or Top Player.
Thats the beauty of this game though,don't you think?
One night it all klicks and you think Mmmm this is too easy.Will I get bored?
Next thing your thinking.I'm gonna spend a season at the wrong end of the table.
Great and addictive game for which,despite a few niggles, Konami should be given a great deal of credit.

Absolutely. I've never, ever had such a challenge on PES in my life, ever. And, it's pretty much the only game I ever play.

What is even more encouraging, is that I honestly can't see a way where I will ever be able to master it. And that's the real deep beauty.

The wry smile that kept coming over my face last night as my keeper was picking the ball out of the net for the umpteenth time was a picture. I kept muttering to myself, 'What the fuck is going on here ???, think you prick, think'.

 

[DagsJT]

I dunno, I feel like I've started to get the hang of Pro and then with that game on Top Player last night, I'm wondering if I've got to that point where it's becoming too familiar?

In saying that, I'll put it on tonight and get dry-bummed by Wigan or something

 

[shank118]

Don't speak too soon. The same thing happened to me. I beat Inter with Rangers, and then lost to Bayern the next game.

 

[Pere Ubu]

Still not quite feeling this game, I have to say.

I've been looking closely at the problems I have with it, and trying to work out which are down to me and which are down to the game itself. For example, I still have a bit of a problem with the passing (on pretty much any passing assistance level, weirdly - although I'm playing on 0 for now), regularly putting the ball behind the man I'm trying to pass to, messing up simple 5-yard balls, etc. It's kind of weird, because intricate passing has always been my main strength in PES, but I know it's my fault because I'm not used to the new mechanics: in three months' time I'll find it quite amusing that I couldn't pass straight to begin with. But there are also problems which are in the game - someone posted a diagram on here showing how, if a teammate is standing between you and another teammate further away, your player will always pass to the man nearest to him even if you max out the power in an effort to reach the guy further away, and this usually leads to surrendering possession. I've tried playing on semi-assisted, assisted and unassisted cursor switching, and it happens in every one.

What's more, this seems to be linked to a wider problem (which I think is a hangover from the cursor-switch bug on the last game). In PES2011, problems arose when the ball was in between two players, and the cpu would get confused and usually only let you have control of the wrong one. In PES2012, when you release the ball, the cpu always selects the recipient - and in the same way it couldn't judge who was best placed to reach a loose ball in the last game, here it often misjudges who should go to receive the pass. One of my favourite passes is the backwards through ball (where you send a gentle through ball sideways and behind you, into the path of a deeper player: the ball goes into space and he comes forward to collect it, and your original player stays where he is for a return pass if needed). It was pretty essential in PES2011 when you were playing possession football. In this game it often doesn't work very well, because the cpu will sometimes think you're trying to pass to someone miles away - often a centre back - who will come running madly up the pitch with no hope of receiving the ball (while the actual intended target stands and stares). The opposition collect the ball, your centre back is now miles out of position... goal.

Sure, there are ways around this, but it feels so unnatural and makes it much harder to play a composed passing game, because at any second a simple pass meant to retain possession could go astray, not by a yard (which could be put down to realistic error) but by 20, 25 yards. I wouldn't mind if you just missed the guy you were aiming at, and he could adjust his run to try and reach the ball. But he ignores the pass (and can't be selected in time), and a very safe pass becomes a nightmare error which gifts the other side a goal. I thought it was just me not aiming carefully enough - but then I realised that even on wide cam, you can't actually tell if there's a centre back offscreen, directly in the line of your pass, ready to leave his post and sprint stupidly up the pitch... so you never know whether it's worth risking the sideways pass or not. It's like the game's encouraging you to go forwards all the time.

What's with the defenders being sucked forwards, too? Even if I set my defensive line deep, they seem to spend a lot of time hanging around the halfway line, which would be fine if they knew how to play opposition strikers offside. Time and time again, the AI will ping a couple of passes, suck my dumb CBs forward, then release a through ball for an uncatchable striker, who beats the non-existent offside trap somewhere near the centre circle. I know PES has stolen a few things from FIFA 11, but I would have said that "one defender always playing the opposing striker onside, leading to millions of one-on-ones" was a feature best left where it was. Funnily enough, setting offside trap to "on" doesn't seem to solve this problem.

My real bugbear, though, is still the game speed. In Demo 1, the ball moved incredibly slowly along the ground, but players moved unrealistically fast. Rather than close the gap by slightly increasing short pass speed, Konami seem to have just upped the game speed even more - which doesn't solve the slow-ball problem (it still moves a bit too slowly along the ground) and massively worsens the other, bigger problem of unrealistically frantic player movements. The game plays at an acceptable speed with the South American teams - faster than I'd like, but acceptable - but Spurs v Bayern is a bloody joke. What's the point of coding a sim when it plays out at arcade speed?

(No, I can't drop the game speed, because online will be fixed at 0, and I don't want to get used to a nicely-paced game then go online and feel like a player from the Portuguese division 2 who's just been dropped into the Premier League. And no, I can't just control the pace of the game and keep it slow, because as soon as the opposition gets the ball it'll suddenly go back into fast-forward mode, like everyone's just had a hit on the crack pipe, and that looks even worse.)

I've said this before, but where exactly is the active AI in this demo? I mean on my team. Yes it's much better than 2011, and when I'm in possession someone will overlap and someone will come short and offer themselves for a pass... but is that all there is? When attacking, I still get the sense of a lack of movement ahead of me, unless I start spamming one-twos and so on. Haven't seen any dummy runs, diagonal runs, anything like that, or if I have they've been so subtle they haven't been much use. I saw the AI score a goal with some great Javier Hernandez-like movement (a back-and-forth shuffle in the box to shake off a marker, like his goal against Bolton the other day) but I've buggered if my players do anything like that.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen some great, intelligent movement from my forwards during quick-passing moves around the edge of the box - scored a lovely goal with Internacional that way - but deep-lying playmakers and classic No.10s seem almost useless, because when they get the ball more than 20 yards from goal, there's so little going on ahead of them. Funny thing is, if Konami hadn't released all those mouthwatering promo vids, I wouldn't know what I was missing and would be praising the improved AI, which really is fantastic when it works. It just seems a bit, I dunno, selective.

Something not right about the general feel of the game, too - still has that "rubbery" feeling from the first demo, because of the elastic-band dribbling, the unpredictable ball physics, the jerky animations and the freaky stop-start acceleration. Makes me queasy.

It's not totally frustrating - now and then, football will break out on the pitch and suddenly the game looks like the best and most realistic football sim I've ever played. But I'm not finding that all the time, and when this game is bad it's really bloody irritating. Like I say, I'm hoping most of my frustrations are down to me not quite clicking yet, and many of them probably will be. But some of the stuff I've mentioned here is clearly the game fucking up, not me, and right now it's driving me off the hinge.

 

[proxi]

Anyone fancy a pint?

It ticks all the boxes for me (PES that is), sure there are frustrations but that magic feeling is back and although I really liked the game last year it was far from the level I do this time.

 

[dach]

is it me or are these things new in the pes serie

cant realy remember these kinda thing happening in the old pes

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Thespeedster84]

I guess the first time so as to be more open to this new PES is to accept sincerely their current general animation and go along with it. lol. If not it could be quite frustrating.

 

[SandTheMan]

Will there be different BLES versions again in PES 1012, or cann all PS3 users use the same options file?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Still not quite feeling this game, I have to say.

I've been looking closely at the problems I have with it, and trying to work out which are down to me and which are down to the game itself. For example, I still have a bit of a problem with the passing (on pretty much any passing assistance level, weirdly - although I'm playing on 0 for now), regularly putting the ball behind the man I'm trying to pass to, messing up simple 5-yard balls, etc. It's kind of weird, because intricate passing has always been my main strength in PES, but I know it's my fault because I'm not used to the new mechanics: in three months' time I'll find it quite amusing that I couldn't pass straight to begin with. But there are also problems which are in the game - someone posted a diagram on here showing how, if a teammate is standing between you and another teammate further away, your player will always pass to the man nearest to him even if you max out the power in an effort to reach the guy further away, and this usually leads to surrendering possession. I've tried playing on semi-assisted, assisted and unassisted cursor switching, and it happens in every one.

What's more, this seems to be linked to a wider problem (which I think is a hangover from the cursor-switch bug on the last game). In PES2011, problems arose when the ball was in between two players, and the cpu would get confused and usually only let you have control of the wrong one. In PES2012, when you release the ball, the cpu always selects the recipient - and in the same way it couldn't judge who was best placed to reach a loose ball in the last game, here it often misjudges who should go to receive the pass. One of my favourite passes is the backwards through ball (where you send a gentle through ball sideways and behind you, into the path of a deeper player: the ball goes into space and he comes forward to collect it, and your original player stays where he is for a return pass if needed). It was pretty essential in PES2011 when you were playing possession football. In this game it often doesn't work very well, because the cpu will sometimes think you're trying to pass to someone miles away - often a centre back - who will come running madly up the pitch with no hope of receiving the ball (while the actual intended target stands and stares). The opposition collect the ball, your centre back is now miles out of position... goal.

Sure, there are ways around this, but it feels so unnatural and makes it much harder to play a composed passing game, because at any second a simple pass meant to retain possession could go astray, not by a yard (which could be put down to realistic error) but by 20, 25 yards. I wouldn't mind if you just missed the guy you were aiming at, and he could adjust his run to try and reach the ball. But he ignores the pass (and can't be selected in time), and a very safe pass becomes a nightmare error which gifts the other side a goal. I thought it was just me not aiming carefully enough - but then I realised that even on wide cam, you can't actually tell if there's a centre back offscreen, directly in the line of your pass, ready to leave his post and sprint stupidly up the pitch... so you never know whether it's worth risking the sideways pass or not. It's like the game's encouraging you to go forwards all the time.

What's with the defenders being sucked forwards, too? Even if I set my defensive line deep, they seem to spend a lot of time hanging around the halfway line, which would be fine if they knew how to play opposition strikers offside. Time and time again, the AI will ping a couple of passes, suck my dumb CBs forward, then release a through ball for an uncatchable striker, who beats the non-existent offside trap somewhere near the centre circle. I know PES has stolen a few things from FIFA 11, but I would have said that "one defender always playing the opposing striker onside, leading to millions of one-on-ones" was a feature best left where it was. Funnily enough, setting offside trap to "on" doesn't seem to solve this problem.

My real bugbear, though, is still the game speed. In Demo 1, the ball moved incredibly slowly along the ground, but players moved unrealistically fast. Rather than close the gap by slightly increasing short pass speed, Konami seem to have just upped the game speed even more - which doesn't solve the slow-ball problem (it still moves a bit too slowly along the ground) and massively worsens the other, bigger problem of unrealistically frantic player movements. The game plays at an acceptable speed with the South American teams - faster than I'd like, but acceptable - but Spurs v Bayern is a bloody joke. What's the point of coding a sim when it plays out at arcade speed?

(No, I can't drop the game speed, because online will be fixed at 0, and I don't want to get used to a nicely-paced game then go online and feel like a player from the Portuguese division 2 who's just been dropped into the Premier League. And no, I can't just control the pace of the game and keep it slow, because as soon as the opposition gets the ball it'll suddenly go back into fast-forward mode, like everyone's just had a hit on the crack pipe, and that looks even worse.)

I've said this before, but where exactly is the active AI in this demo? I mean on my team. Yes it's much better than 2011, and when I'm in possession someone will overlap and someone will come short and offer themselves for a pass... but is that all there is? When attacking, I still get the sense of a lack of movement ahead of me, unless I start spamming one-twos and so on. Haven't seen any dummy runs, diagonal runs, anything like that, or if I have they've been so subtle they haven't been much use. I saw the AI score a goal with some great Javier Hernandez-like movement (a back-and-forth shuffle in the box to shake off a marker, like his goal against Bolton the other day) but I've buggered if my players do anything like that.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen some great, intelligent movement from my forwards during quick-passing moves around the edge of the box - scored a lovely goal with Internacional that way - but deep-lying playmakers and classic No.10s seem almost useless, because when they get the ball more than 20 yards from goal, there's so little going on ahead of them. Funny thing is, if Konami hadn't released all those mouthwatering promo vids, I wouldn't know what I was missing and would be praising the improved AI, which really is fantastic when it works. It just seems a bit, I dunno, selective.

Something not right about the general feel of the game, too - still has that "rubbery" feeling from the first demo, because of the elastic-band dribbling, the unpredictable ball physics, the jerky animations and the freaky stop-start acceleration. Makes me queasy.

It's not totally frustrating - now and then, football will break out on the pitch and suddenly the game looks like the best and most realistic football sim I've ever played. But I'm not finding that all the time, and when this game is bad it's really bloody irritating. Like I say, I'm hoping most of my frustrations are down to me not quite clicking yet, and many of them probably will be. But some of the stuff I've mentioned here is clearly the game fucking up, not me, and right now it's driving me off the hinge.

It's just you Pere, your shit. Join the club.

On a serious note, if we were able to play it right now like we wished we could, then it would only be half the the game it actually is, in my opinion.

Alot of time on the pitch is required, there is no quick-fix here.

 

[xPJRx]

Just had to add my 2 cents worth in ....
I had a few games on demo #2 last night as well.
A few nights ago i paid really close attention to defending well cutting off passing lanes, containing.... I won all 4 matches I played (professional difficult, 1 bar pass assist, all other assists off) including a 4-1 mauling of Rangers with me as Bayern.

Back to last night, same approach, but I lost every game! three 1-0 defeats and the last game i lost 3-2 as Club America after being 3-0 down to Internacional.
During that game when i got my first goal, the CPU didnt change that much, then I started getting alot of posession in midfield and creating chances, I saw the CPU pull a forward back to tighten up and compress midfield, they started winning the midfield battles and leaving me not much room to play so I was forced down the wings.
I then got my 2nd goal, then I saw the CPU pull a player from midfield back into a 5 man defense, meaning i was dominating midfield but wanst succeeding with my long balls over the top to the pacy forward as the CPU had packed out their defense, so i was restricted to long range effeorts.
Its just good to see the CPU AI vary and change so much in real time, in an intelligent manner, makes for much more realistic and flowing games.

 

[mdma11]

Just had to add my 2 cents worth in ....
I had a few games on demo #2 last night as well.
A few nights ago i paid really close attention to defending well cutting off passing lanes, containing.... I won all 4 matches I played (professional difficult, 1 bar pass assist, all other assists off) including a 4-1 mauling of Rangers with me as Bayern.

Back to last night, same approach, but I lost every game! three 1-0 defeats and the last game i lost 3-2 as Club America after being 3-0 down to Internacional.
During that game when i got my first goal, the CPU didnt change that much, then I started getting alot of posession in midfield and creating chances, I saw the CPU pull a forward back to tighten up and compress midfield, they started winning the midfield battles and leaving me not much room to play so I was forced down the wings.
I then got my 2nd goal, then I saw the CPU pull a player from midfield back into a 5 man defense, meaning i was dominating midfield but wanst succeeding with my long balls over the top to the pacy forward as the CPU had packed out their defense, so i was restricted to long range effeorts.
Its just good to see the CPU AI vary and change so much in real time, in an intelligent manner, makes for much more realistic and flowing games.

I'm telling you, this AI is simply amazing. Konami may not have gotten everything right, but man did they create something special with this AI or what?

Unbelievable. Makes me wanna beat the CPU even more every time I lose.