PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

_anderson said:
What's worrying me right now is people putting faith in the demo coming next week. If it's a "newer build only" bug, it won't be there, 'cause next weeks demo is supposed to be preview code, and apparently it wasn't there back then.
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What's the difference between that and E3 code?
 
Active in what sense though? Whats disappointed me more than anything is the lack of intelligence of the movement, as it's literally the same as L1+X in older games. I don't see any hesitation or diagonal/dummy runs, just ploughing straight ahead into no-mans land. All it's created is zero chance of build-up play.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
Have you made sure you have two layers of aliminium foil over your head? Otherwise the CIA can log-in to your brain! ;) Conspiracy theories aside, I really can't believe people can't see the "run Forest run" stuff going on.

Whether it's a bug or a tactics settings is another matter. If it's just a blanket tactics setting in the demo I can somewhat understand Konami for doing it. Gametime per person is limited and they will want to show off the AI as much as possible, so maybe they made a poor decision (wouldn't be the first time) to go overboard to make sure everyone playing the game will notice. It's not like graphics have changed much, animation is better but still poor compared to FIFA so they do really, really need to show the AI working. And let's face it, there aren't hardcore people there most of the time so they need to be overwhelmed by any changes made.

It looks crap, and for us plays crap.....but it is showing the active AI very clearly. For the people playing they're probably thinking; "Hey wow, the AI is really trying to help me attack". We all know that everyone at those conventions plays like a nutter to atleast score a goal when do they finally get a game so defensive qualities go out of the window anyway.
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Far-fetched theory, but sooo hope you're right. Either way, if it's there in final code/second demo we'll see it. Hopefully literally everyone will, and will all report it as a... bug.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Active in what sense though? Whats disappointed me more than anything is the lack of intelligence of the movement, as it's literally the same as L1+X in older games. I don't see any hesitation or diagonal/dummy runs, just ploughing straight ahead into no-mans land. All it's created is zero chance of build-up play.
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I know it's crap. But if you take a perspective of someone that doesn't pay much attention to football anyway and isn't in to footie games like us then I can somewhat understand if it's a tactics setting. I really hope so, because the game is looking so poor because of it ATM.

I would find it weird if it's a bug, because how could the team not see something like this going on and letting it get through quality control?
 
retronym said:
you do actually sound religious in the way you are defending the game. it reminds me of christians saying "well there is so much good in the bible why do you keep concentrating on the odd genocide here and there". by defending this as "not a bug" you are actually insulting the intelligence of the developers. if its just a bug then it will be fixed and hey bugs happen, if its by design then its possibly the worst design decision in the history of gaming.
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Defending?...im as sinnicle as the next man but i know what im seeing from these videos and its not a bug.

I think the majority of us understand how real football works and that CBs dont blaze forward after a ground pass.However,gauging the context of when and why and if these are being inniated by the end user is a different story altogether.Ive seen plenty of examples where the CB dont rush forward and ive not seen one example where a defender moves forward and the opposing player easily breaches the back line.

Whatevers said and done the ai is working like a dream and there finally seems to be a very high degree of simitry between all the players.The zonal defending and the general awarenees of the team around you is breathtaking and theres always lots of support and two or three options in attack.A complete contrast to pes2011 where the ai felt to pedestrian and lacking any bite.
 
Expander said:
Defending?...im as sinnicle as the next man but i know what im seeing from these videos and its not a bug.

I think the majority of us understand how real football works and that CBs dont blaze forward after a ground pass.However,gauging the context of when and why and if these are being inniated by the end user is a different story altogether.Ive seen plenty of examples where the CB dont rush forward and ive not seen one example where a defender moves forward and the opposing player easily breaches the back line.

Whatevers said and done the ai is working like a dream and there finally seems to be a very high degree of simitry between all the players.The zonal defending and the general awarenees of the team around you is breathtaking and theres always lots of support and two or three options in attack.A complete contrast to pes2011 where the ai felt to pedestrian and lacking any bite.
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can you give us some examples where defenders dont bomb forward then?
 
Ive seen plenty of examples where the CB dont rush forward and ive not seen one example where a defender moves forward and the opposing player easily breaches the back line.



Exactly!
 
I would also like to see examples where the defender doesn't rush after a ground pass. And if they are hard to find, then it just confirms the issue in the first place.
 
dannyfc2 said:
Active in what sense though? Whats disappointed me more than anything is the lack of intelligence of the movement, as it's literally the same as L1+X in older games. I don't see any hesitation or diagonal/dummy runs, just ploughing straight ahead into no-mans land. All it's created is zero chance of build-up play.
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I beg to differ,the user inniated runs are strait but movement off the ball or driven by the ai is varied.Forwards peel of there markers and players all over the pitch are making sideways and diagnol movements.Theres always two or three options in attack and anyone with a fertile creative brain is going to be able to weave some real intricate pass and move.

Just because most playing at gamescom are just running at goal,turning there backs to goal or playing square doesnt mean theres no chance of build up play.This is a game designed for pass and move and build up play,which is more then evident by the movement off the ball.
 
Expander said:
I beg to differ,the user inniated runs are strait but movement off the ball or driven by the ai is varied.Forwards peel of there markers and players all over the pitch are making sideways and diagnol movements.Theres always two or three options in attack and anyone with a fertile creative brain is going to be able to weave some real intricate pass and move.
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Which video?
 
Lami said:
Well apart from time difference, what's different regarding gameplay etc?
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Well I wouldn't know for sure as I haven't played them, but obviously differences should be big in terms of code development (E3 is considered an "early" build, after preview code, it's close to the final thing).
 
Expander said:
I beg to differ,the user inniated runs are strait but movement off the ball or driven by the ai is varied.Forwards peel of there markers and players all over the pitch are making sideways and diagnol movements.Theres always two or three options in attack and anyone with a fertile creative brain is going to be able to weave some real intricate pass and move.

Just because most playing at gamescom are just running at goal,turning there backs to goal or playing square doesnt mean theres no chance of build up play.This is a game designed for pass and move and build up play,which is more then evident by the movement off the ball.
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so are you going to link some examples of where the defenders dont bomb forward? you seem to be making a lot of statements but not backing it up with any evidence
 
Jamezinho said:
Does stamina have a bearing on the amount of forward runs made by the AI? When players tire towards the end of a match they become less likely to make bursting runs. If players can makes these kind of runs with the same intensity for 90 minutes then something is wrong.
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I watched one of the older videos and looked for this, sadly it appeared that lung bursting runs are constantly made throughout the 90 mins. Maybe next year.

On another note whilst looking for 2012 vids I came across a gamescom vid from 2009 showing pes2010, the game really has come quite a way since then, the animations especially.
 
Ern Dog said:
I watched one of the older videos and looked for this, sadly it appeared that lung bursting runs are constantly made throughout the 90 mins. Maybe next year.

On another note whilst looking for 2012 vids I came across a gamescom vid from 2009 showing pes2010, the game really has come quite a way since then, the animations especially.
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Actually I've seen one of the vids, I think it was Milan with the CPU, on the last 20 minutes or so of the second half they stopped pushing forward and nearly "parked the bus". But I think even then they would "run forward" after every pass, but they then got back to a the deep position they were before.
 
Expander said:
I beg to differ,the user inniated runs are strait but movement off the ball or driven by the ai is varied.Forwards peel of there markers and players all over the pitch are making sideways and diagnol movements.Theres always two or three options in attack and anyone with a fertile creative brain is going to be able to weave some real intricate pass and move.

Just because most playing at gamescom are just running at goal,turning there backs to goal or playing square doesnt mean theres no chance of build up play.This is a game designed for pass and move and build up play,which is more then evident by the movement off the ball.
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Agree with this, the movement looks really, really good. When you watch the vids dont concentrate on the ball carrier, watch everything around it.
 
Lami said:
Well apart from time difference, what's different regarding gameplay etc?
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Jon said shooting was much better in Gamescom code than in what will be the first demo code. Don't think he mentioned anything else. Probably only tweaks, because there can't be that much development time between the builds. I would guess keepers could be a bit worse in demo too, since he reported back before that they worked hard on shooting and keepers after preview code feedback.


I would also like to say that I like the off the ball movement. What I/we are pointing out has nothing to do with that. We only point out the fact that there is a trigger run after every ground pass.
 
_anderson said:
Actually I've seen one of the vids, I think it was Milan with the CPU, on the last 20 minutes or so of the second half they stopped pushing forward and nearly "parked the bus". But I think even then they would "run forward" after every pass, but they then got back to a the deep position they were before.
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That must of been down to the management options, I remember seeing Ramos & Capdevilla(i think) running foward very late in the game as if they had just kicked off.
 
_anderson said:
Actually I've seen one of the vids, I think it was Milan with the CPU, on the last 20 minutes or so of the second half they stopped pushing forward and nearly "parked the bus". But I think even then they would "run forward" after every pass, but they then got back to a the deep position they were before.
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Yeah I watched this before, they still do the runs, but after the 5-10 meter run is done they back down again. So the tactics works, but the glitch is still there.
 
mrbamber Mark Bamber
Just played #PES2012 review code for the last hour - in 1 word fabulous.

mrbamber Mark Bamber
Didn't see any keeper problems, shooting & crossing has more oomph, everything felt as it should, Can't say more til review.
 
Some player stats released by chaos if anyone's interested here.

EDIT:

Just tweeted bamber about the running thing:

@mrbamber Mate, can you at least tell us if every player barges forward after every pass, like in gamescom code?

mrbamber Mark Bamber
Tried to recreate everyone running forward and saw no problems, all as it should be
 
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Burp !! Ooops, sorry. Ahem, are we still getting our knickers in a twist over this ? Chill people, it will be all good in the hood.
 
Lami said:
Some player stats released by chaos if anyone's interested here.

EDIT:

Just tweeted bamber about the running thing:

@mrbamber Mate, can you at least tell us if every player barges forward after every pass, like in gamescom code?

mrbamber Mark Bamber
Tried to recreate everyone running forward and saw no problems, all as it should be
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Sounds good. Really good. I wonder if there will be video reviews from them too soon, that would be the ultimate confirmation that they fixed it.
 
Lami said:
Some player stats released by chaos if anyone's interested here.

EDIT:

Just tweeted bamber about the running thing:

@mrbamber Mate, can you at least tell us if every player barges forward after every pass, like in gamescom code?

mrbamber Mark Bamber
Tried to recreate everyone running forward and saw no problems, all as it should be
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Best piece of news if he's sure of it :D It does read as he acknowledged the problem from the videos and didn't spot the problem on newer code :)

Hurray!
 
Lami said:
Some player stats released by chaos if anyone's interested here.

EDIT:

Just tweeted bamber about the running thing:

@mrbamber Mate, can you at least tell us if every player barges forward after every pass, like in gamescom code?

mrbamber Mark Bamber
Tried to recreate everyone running forward and saw no problems, all as it should be
Click to expand...

what does he mean by "tried to recreate", that worries me because you dont even need to recreate it just look at the match and check if every player bombs forward after passing it, does he even know what the bug is in the gamescom code?
 
off topic
i find i kind of dislike when my opponent manipulates the teams formation
i most always play with the defaults formations setup
i find that my team & game play more of a realistic way,less arcade kind of football

have any of you here find that as well?
 
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