stuartyd
Premier League
- 11 October 2004
I've got both but preferably Xbox
-
Major upgrades completed! Please report any issues you spot in here
PES 2011 Discussion thread
- Thread starter NightWish
- Start date
I've got both but preferably Xbox
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
I also post sometimes in the Fifa thread in this forum, what does that have to do with anything? Show me the postings from kitanamedia where I stated I prefer Fifa over PES... I don't, but that doesn't mean that I'm blind to any improvements in Fifa, in fact if EA one day would succeed in simulating the sport in a realistic way I would buy Fifa. I'm not bound to Konami and PES, it's just that currently they are better at simulating the sport I love.
But there are some little things that could and should be improved and that is imho this individual "action/awareness"-AI that would make players more alive and more adapting and reacting... this would also solve the problem with the logical runs.
I tried it for a few minutes last night at top-player on xbox360 and I wasn't successful in exploting that bug. I felt that there was that bug with the defender not challenging but funnily enough Konami made the control of the player near the cornerline very difficult... Everywhere else I had very good control of the player but near the cornerline everything became oversensitiv with my player hardly to be kept from going over the line. I guess that's Konami's "fix" of the problem on the xbox360.
I will have to try it myself with the xbox360-demo, on top-player it's probably too difficult because the defense will disturb but on beginner or regular there should be better opportunity to try out if the goalkeeper reacts to manual passes.
I merely posted it here because numerous persons reported it to be an exploit.
The team-AI in Fifa is imho way worse than in PES, highly predicatble, too pressure-oriented and too samey as well as exposing a bad understanding of football.
But individually the players have some sort of active AI that lets them do something, run into space or seek to get space away from the covering defender... this seems to be missing in PES 2011 or too toned down.
All games start with 0:0 and there should be some active and alive reactions from my teammembers, they should be interested to win, to make a goal... but currently it seems to be too little.
Besides being down a single goal in reality spices the team up to do more and they usually do... being down two goals or more starts to bring down the morale and cause a lethargy, except for extraordinary teams.
I hope so, I'm not posting these things to make the game down, but to highlight issues that might spoil the fun so that it can be patched and the game made better.
PES 2012 could become an awesome game, they are so near to make the game perfect, they just need an additional action/awareness-AI that helps to make logical runs and seek space and adapt to opportunities like real and alive players would.
That and a referree that lets advantage be played more often.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Posted in the other thread but I shall post here as well and get your thoughts.I just tried to exploit the "green zone" and running without sprint bug. Not sure if it was just down to luck or the bug does exist, but I scored 3 goals doing that. Check out the video below. Hopefully Konami resolves this because I really love this game. I was playing on Professional though, but it still shouldn't happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QEkEXTKei4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QEkEXTKei4
nerf
Forming triangles
Finally! This is the kind of thing I've been seeing all over the place when playing this demo.
There is zero reason for Park to stop dead in that situation. There are other teammates better placed to provide support/cover, whereas he's the one with half the pitch to move into. He would be racing up that right channel in reality.
It's not about wanting to counter-attack all the time or expecting teammates to run forwards more. It's about AI teammates making dumb decisions when there's obvious space to be used. The AI in this game has little appreciation for space, it makes your teammates look unintelligent and this lack of awareness becomes frustrating.
I tested turning near the endline towards the goal but the CPU stopped me every time, I don't think that one is true. But the green zone bug is very real and quite frankly bad enough, tested it on both PES and WE versions, both equally easy on top player. Of course if the CPU gets in a second player they stop you cold but this happens very rarely.
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
That's what I meant, there needs to be an additional awareness/action-AI for the individual players... I hope it will be in there for PES 2012. Other than that and the exploits/bugs PES 2011 is so near to a perfect simulation of the game on the pitch, imho much nearer than Fifa 11.
Try the pc version, it has a mod that allows you to play with 30 teams.
The game is not that far from release so why dont you take the time to practice it more, it will certainly help you when you start your new masterleague, league or cup.
I will be happy to play the demo a lot untill the game is released.
In the past there were no demos (yes, i am that old) so i'm happy that we have one.
I'll be buying the pc version myself, but only if the online is sorted out this year.
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Just read another two pages of people whinning about player runs,for ffs do people not get the logic of this game and how players do infact make runs into space at the appropriate time in the appropriate situation.
This is a game that mirrors real football,you have to pass into the gaps and spaces and the players will move into them,the players are making the tiny movements its just people dont see them or react to late and the opportunitys gone.This isnt match of the day highlights,watch a 90 minute game and see how many times in a game the teams are making attacking runs all over the pitch,it only happens on counters or when the game becomes more stretched.Fifa is just one big counter attack,it doesnt make you build from the back and create the space for your players to run into with pass and move or use your players in the centre of the park,fifa effectively holds the end users hand.
In fifa the opposition defence will always keep you on side and the wingers or fullbacks always make the exact same predictable advance runs over and over again.
This isnt a arcade game like fifa thats forgiving and sympathetic pandering to the frills of football not the diversity or unpredictability,PES2011 gives you the canvas to paint your oil painting on and the tools to create the script,if people want the ai to do all the thinking for them then they should play fifa or go back to the scripting of pes on the ps2 and pes08/9/10.
For me pes2011 takes the genius of MajorAs games back in the mid to late nineties on the n64,throws in a all that was good about pes,creating the most balanced and diverse game i have ever played,it literally is limitless but only a old school ISS/perfect striker vet is going to be able to see the depth of creativity that this game provides in a short period of time.
Pes2011 is a hardcore game for the hardcore old school gamers that have manual dexterity and want to have more control of everything.
I will have to do some full lenght match vids to put my money where my mouth is.
Theres alot of people on here that dont want to have to start to re-learn how to play a football game again,theyve got there fifa and pes on the ps2 comfort zone and dont want to let go,so there stating pes2011 has bugs and ai problems,whens it what there not doing that is the issue.
Open your minds naysayers,stop listening to the media and all the other merchants of doom and figure out how to play pes2011 properly because i have.
For the record im red hot on fifa10 and FWC and pes2011 gives me as much if not more control of the game then fifa,im not some blind fanboy who hasnt experienced the other product extensively.
Its the same with defending you never have to press you can just move towwards the player and win the ball with your stick and foot control and the r2 button gives you the ability to stand tall and block without ever using the shadowing system,not only this but if you position your defence right most of the time you can be like a fortress at the back its genius.
This is a game that mirrors real football,you have to pass into the gaps and spaces and the players will move into them,the players are making the tiny movements its just people dont see them or react to late and the opportunitys gone.This isnt match of the day highlights,watch a 90 minute game and see how many times in a game the teams are making attacking runs all over the pitch,it only happens on counters or when the game becomes more stretched.Fifa is just one big counter attack,it doesnt make you build from the back and create the space for your players to run into with pass and move or use your players in the centre of the park,fifa effectively holds the end users hand.
In fifa the opposition defence will always keep you on side and the wingers or fullbacks always make the exact same predictable advance runs over and over again.
This isnt a arcade game like fifa thats forgiving and sympathetic pandering to the frills of football not the diversity or unpredictability,PES2011 gives you the canvas to paint your oil painting on and the tools to create the script,if people want the ai to do all the thinking for them then they should play fifa or go back to the scripting of pes on the ps2 and pes08/9/10.
For me pes2011 takes the genius of MajorAs games back in the mid to late nineties on the n64,throws in a all that was good about pes,creating the most balanced and diverse game i have ever played,it literally is limitless but only a old school ISS/perfect striker vet is going to be able to see the depth of creativity that this game provides in a short period of time.
Pes2011 is a hardcore game for the hardcore old school gamers that have manual dexterity and want to have more control of everything.
I will have to do some full lenght match vids to put my money where my mouth is.
Theres alot of people on here that dont want to have to start to re-learn how to play a football game again,theyve got there fifa and pes on the ps2 comfort zone and dont want to let go,so there stating pes2011 has bugs and ai problems,whens it what there not doing that is the issue.
Open your minds naysayers,stop listening to the media and all the other merchants of doom and figure out how to play pes2011 properly because i have.
For the record im red hot on fifa10 and FWC and pes2011 gives me as much if not more control of the game then fifa,im not some blind fanboy who hasnt experienced the other product extensively.
Its the same with defending you never have to press you can just move towwards the player and win the ball with your stick and foot control and the r2 button gives you the ability to stand tall and block without ever using the shadowing system,not only this but if you position your defence right most of the time you can be like a fortress at the back its genius.
Last edited:
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Fuck me.
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
That's true, this keeping onside of Fifa's defence allows much more time to make that darting pass into the run.
I can see your argument that in real football it's not always counter-football and that they don't always make these runs. I agree wholeheartily, but when these runs happen the players don't simply stop when there is a good opportunity for going forward.. and this stopping shouldn't happen in game either.
I agree such forward runs shouldn't happen constantly but when they happen they should be done right.
It's not only there where the AI of my teammemember simply loses focus, it happens also after the ball bounces around and ends dead on the field, my players sometimes don't react to the ball in fact going away from it with me trying through hectic switching to activate the player nearby to go to the ball.
A bit more awareness and reaction-AI would go a long way to make the players feel alive.
Please do that, with widecam, on topplayer one full match playing with Bayern against Barcelona, and another with the southamerican teams.
That would be great and we could both better illustrate what we mean.
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
Only if you happen to be Monica Belluci.
It really is a disaster
Must be a licencing issue, but a strange one at that.
Just checked a video of the preview code showing all the teams in game... The only South American teams they were able to select were the one's we had before...
I just feel very disappointed at Konami. I think there's been much grey areas in terms of Konami comunication about licences and I think it has been because of this litle big detail.
I just hope we at least can play friendlies between Copa Libertadores teams...
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Its because your always one step behind the game and until your totally in tune with it the ai will not react how it should or how you want it to,you have to keep the ball moving and think about playing the ball into space and seeing the openings well in advance,its hard for me to explian as i played ISS/perfect striker on the n64 for over ten years so the principle and understanding for me is so in-grained.Its going to take alot of people months to really gel and get the best out of this game but when they do it will be worth it.This is totally different then fifa and pes before,konami have taken pes2011 back to a golden age when games had depth and layers and the user had to spend alot of time with a game to get the best out of it.
Whats happening to you isnt happening with me when i play pes2011,i will do a full length video and you will not see in my games what your experiencing.Theres a right way of playing it but you can also do a hundered things wrong,dont stab in and press because your notice in the replays the players pause slightly because they have lost the kinetic energy in there moment which allows the opposition a half yard of pace or space.For every action theres a consequence its very subtle and clever stuff that takes weeks to really see and understand.
You have to learn how each team plays and how to get the maximum out of each player and when to do one thing and when not to,its not a case of just picking any team and the principle being exactly the same for all of them.
Bare in mind also the player cards are locked and pre-set in the demo.
Last edited:
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Kelf - I'd be astounded if you couldn't, but then the inability to choose them for friendlies is astounding in itself.
Fingers crossed that green zone bug, along with some of the AI freezing (just watched, backing off for some 5 seconds or so as I chased a slow moving loose ball into the box) and defensive positioning are cleaned up.
Things like defenders on the edge of your area when you're taking a set piece/when their keeper collects a corner, leaving strikers in 30-40 yards of space; also had one where all but one of my players were standing 10 yards outside the box while 6 Barca players and Dani Alves (stood way to the side of them) were in the box waiting a free kick to be put in!
It's a very very good game when nothing bad happens and it's easy to forgive it a lot of quirks because it's a demo and because it gives you so many satisfying nuggets of footballing gold, but it will be interesting to see how much of this is fixed in the final title, plus how quickly they release any subsequent fixes. How long was it before the first patch last year?
Fingers crossed that green zone bug, along with some of the AI freezing (just watched, backing off for some 5 seconds or so as I chased a slow moving loose ball into the box) and defensive positioning are cleaned up.
Things like defenders on the edge of your area when you're taking a set piece/when their keeper collects a corner, leaving strikers in 30-40 yards of space; also had one where all but one of my players were standing 10 yards outside the box while 6 Barca players and Dani Alves (stood way to the side of them) were in the box waiting a free kick to be put in!
It's a very very good game when nothing bad happens and it's easy to forgive it a lot of quirks because it's a demo and because it gives you so many satisfying nuggets of footballing gold, but it will be interesting to see how much of this is fixed in the final title, plus how quickly they release any subsequent fixes. How long was it before the first patch last year?
Last edited:
B
BillyBoy
Guest
NOOO! We wont be able to use the Copa Libertadores teams outside of the main competition!? What about exhibition matches and what about online! I guess this means that the Copa Libertadores wont be integrated into Become A Legend or the Master League.
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
Yes, Jon Murphy said these teams can't be used anywhere except in the main competition because of licensing-issues.
Lons
AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
- 15 December 2007
It's shame that we can't play online copa libertadores teams.
Last edited by a moderator:
Honestly? I understand the logic of anticipating the most obvious of runs and exploiting space. If Parks situation wasn't the appropriate time to make a run, then I don't know when is. He stopped before he even passed the half way line for christ's sakes! And by doing so, he wasn't really giving me an option. I already had two players near the middle of the pitch I could have passed back to, he should have at least drifted out wide to provide an outlet.
Again, what I initially posted has nothing to do with me wanting an end-to-end, sprint fest for 90 minutes. Nor do I want this game to play like FIFA. In fact, I went back to playing PES 2010 (despite it's many flaws) since I grew tired of FIFA 10's nonsense. While there are many out there who are more knowledgeable of the game than me, I feel confident in saying I know how play "proper" football.
I realize the importance of possession football, playing it around, looking for the right opportunity to push on and look for subtle runs. I also understand passing into space for a man to run onto, again, this is school boy stuff.
Instead of addressing a glaring issue, you'd rather imply that any one who's encountering such issues knows little about football, should go play FIFA, or that PES 2011 is too hardcore for them. Fantastic. There are a few words I'd love to say to you, but I'll keep it civil.
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Theres no glaring flaws,you cant just stab at buttons while players are moving or start to execute button commands before the player has recieved the ball or is moving towards it,the game will punish you,its all about timing and being in tune with the game,and this is how it always was with ISS on the n64.You have to strike the ball in the right position and away from your feet,if you over the top it of it it will blaze high.The players will always move into the spaces and make the runs if you see and exploit these openings.Didnt you watch united at the weekend,look at the way balls were played into space and players were pealing off there markers after the ball was played not before.
All i was saying is i to have extensive experience of fifa and i dont loose anything that fifa gives me and that includes advanced runs into space,infact,i gain and find that the players ai behaves in a more natural and organic way based on the way i play.
I wasnt infering that you dont understand football,i was simply staing alot of people are still playing pes2011 like pes2010 or fifa.Pes2011 is like real football you have to have the vision to see the angles and command and exploit the space,its not a case like fifa where x equals y and the game is just one big counter attack,it makes you think and has a perfect alchemy or equilibrium in the ai that responds to how intelligently you read the play both on and off the ball.
The opposition never gets in behind me unless i leave it space or make a mistake and i dont find my defenders freezing on through balls because ive already read the danger and am commanding the space behind me.
Your never going to get ai as good as a human player and its never going to be completely perfect,but weve had fantastic ai in the developement world for twenty years its just a case of toning it down and making it make mistakes overwise it would always out think a human being.
Give the game another month get your head down and come back to me on this discusssion.
I come from a age where skilled players could command a game against weaker players,something that has gone missing from football games in recent years.Im not being elitist but if i have the skill and vision why should a game give that said weaker player a catch up system to balance out the weaknesses in his game.Pes2011 will reward those that put the time in and punish those that have bad habits forged over the last 3 years playing fifa and pes.
You started being negative about my post and going down a un-civil line,take a good look at yourself before you start taking the moral high-ground.This is a adult forum,if you cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen it doesnt have to get personal.I dont give a rats arse about face or reputation(im to old for ego or do i want to prove how smart i am,and its not about winning and loosing).Im just calling it how i see it and not taking the standard negative line thats starting to infect the blogs.
Last edited:
master_smurf
Its just Reality
I am now absolutely devastated - Hopefully we can have them copied over into the edit teams by OF makers and then use them in these modes.
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Sorry mods my mistake.
Last edited:
R
Rob92
Guest
There is no excuse for Park not running into the space in that video - it was stupid.
The AI in general seems fairly good to me, but at times I do see players not trying to make space for themselves or not joining an attack when they should.
The AI in general seems fairly good to me, but at times I do see players not trying to make space for themselves or not joining an attack when they should.
for me, park had to make that run forward, defending the fact that he didnt by saying its because of lack of knowledge is poor.
that was a classic counter attack situation, nothing to do with wanting to play kick and run, ping pong, slow reactions etc....was just poor play by the cpu and something i and others noticed after the first game.
that was a classic counter attack situation, nothing to do with wanting to play kick and run, ping pong, slow reactions etc....was just poor play by the cpu and something i and others noticed after the first game.
I wrote on Konamy official forum on 09.09.2010 about this bug
http://forums.pesfan.com/showthread.php?t=233149
that i named "Green Zone Crossing Bug", linking some videos....
YouTube - Pes 2011 DEMO Crossing Bug.mov
YouTube - Pes 2011 DEMO Crossing Bug (Different Angle)
Then probably i was the first one to see this bad issue that spoils the gameplay,even on "Top Player".
No feedback from Konamy:the so called moderators simply closed it.
I do'nt think it will be addressed in final version.
Cheers
Last edited:
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Just checked a video of the preview code showing all the teams in game... The only South American teams they were able to select were the one's we had before...
I just feel very disappointed at Konami. I think there's been much grey areas in terms of Konami comunication about licences and I think it has been because of this litle big detail.
I just hope we at least can play friendlies between Copa Libertadores teams...
The Copa Lib mode will probably have an exhibition mode like the Champions League mode does.
That will be something at least, but I'm still not happy. My dreams of matches between the European and South American clubs are now shattered.
Expander
Banned
- 4 May 2010
Fideco
What bug?,the ai simply let you get a cross in without getting tight and gives you to much room but hes not freezing or bugging hes simply not getting tight enough,ive not experienced such a easy cross on the we demo,are you sure this is top player?.
Hardly a bug and hardly a game breaker,a human player would never let you do this.Get some friends to play with.
Whats the matter with you people its a game,i can do that time and time again in fifa on veteran.
Its just nit picking for the sake of nit picking over a DEMO.
What bug?,the ai simply let you get a cross in without getting tight and gives you to much room but hes not freezing or bugging hes simply not getting tight enough,ive not experienced such a easy cross on the we demo,are you sure this is top player?.
Hardly a bug and hardly a game breaker,a human player would never let you do this.Get some friends to play with.
Whats the matter with you people its a game,i can do that time and time again in fifa on veteran.
Its just nit picking for the sake of nit picking over a DEMO.
Last edited by a moderator:
hany3
Championship
- 12 September 2009
- Team
- El-Ahly
u r right mate
i noticed that serious bug too
and when u see it , u really feel how it is annoying
i wonder how other folks can's really notice it , when u play even a single match vs. the cpu it will shine like the sun
any way i think we need more clear video to clearly show how the AI opponent defender stupidly stops near the end line allowing you to very easily cross the ball
BTW i tweeted about such bug to john murphy with both videos that are only currently available about 5 days ago but with no comment from him