Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Great post.
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PES 2011 Discussion thread
- Thread starter NightWish
- Start date
Great post.
tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
Sometimes this thread just seems like a big PES-itis diary. Does that qualify it as a phenomenon?
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Played a few games last night on MLO. Lost a couple of close ones and drew one. Every time I say this is my last game for the night, I find myself having to play one more. Good oppponents last night with nice post game message. The games were enjoyable and it felt like a real battle where you could always fight your way back into the game. A couple of nice dribbles using that special R2 button and some nice play all around.
Was itching to play FIFA World Cup last night for some reason. I put the disc in after a few months of hiatus. It brought back great memories. The presentation and magic of a world cup is well represented and every game has atmosphere. I just wanted to have some manual games.
I still think the graphics on PES (in particular the players/shirts etc) are better. I think FIFA has it nailed in terms of shooting animations (finesse shot and pile drivers on PES sometimes look like the leg is swinging like a plank of wood from the hips).
FIFA's pitches are either smaller or seem that way because of the AI positioning. I'm still trying to work out these 1000 new animations that PES brought it in this year lol. If they can integrate them seamlessly in PES 2012 and introduce a proper manual setting that can still incorporate stats properly, it will be truly phenomenal.
That's the first thing I noticed last night when playing FIFA - even though animations might look like the real players - the FIFA players aren't very distinct. A lot of players feel the same when dribbling or passing. With PES though, every player truly feels unique and you have to know their strengths and weaknesses if you are to do well with them.
Was itching to play FIFA World Cup last night for some reason. I put the disc in after a few months of hiatus. It brought back great memories. The presentation and magic of a world cup is well represented and every game has atmosphere. I just wanted to have some manual games.
I still think the graphics on PES (in particular the players/shirts etc) are better. I think FIFA has it nailed in terms of shooting animations (finesse shot and pile drivers on PES sometimes look like the leg is swinging like a plank of wood from the hips).
FIFA's pitches are either smaller or seem that way because of the AI positioning. I'm still trying to work out these 1000 new animations that PES brought it in this year lol. If they can integrate them seamlessly in PES 2012 and introduce a proper manual setting that can still incorporate stats properly, it will be truly phenomenal.
That's the first thing I noticed last night when playing FIFA - even though animations might look like the real players - the FIFA players aren't very distinct. A lot of players feel the same when dribbling or passing. With PES though, every player truly feels unique and you have to know their strengths and weaknesses if you are to do well with them.
FIFA's pitches are sized to be roughly the same length as the international standard that you get at many big stadiums these days. It's the acceleration and tackle radiuses which make it feel small. The feeling of pitch size is more or less about how much space you get. It's also somewhat dependent on camera view - PES's is quite zoomed in so that helps the pitch feel comparitively larger.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
praying-mantis32
League 2
- 28 January 2011
So FIFA just released a screenshot, and unimpressive as it was, when do you guys think we will see something from Konami?
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
Next month probably.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Ok I played a couple more manual games of FIFA world cup last night and the frustration kicks in again lol. The amount of times you can get 1 on 1 with the keeper is ridiculous. The defence just pushes up too high and at one point I noticed players were running around like the end of a Benny Hill show. Put PES on and ahhh the players dribble like humans, not like cardboard cutouts! So glad I changed over this year 
Anyway I was trying to get the knuckleball technique down pat via the training mode last night...still can't get it happening that often but when it does work the dip and swerve is rather nice...
YouTube - Knuckleball shot - PES 11
If I could score in a game with it, straight to the highlights reel haha
Anyway I was trying to get the knuckleball technique down pat via the training mode last night...still can't get it happening that often but when it does work the dip and swerve is rather nice...
YouTube - Knuckleball shot - PES 11
If I could score in a game with it, straight to the highlights reel haha
been playing this game for the last 3 days quite alot and now just had to eject the disc before i snap the damn thing in half. the faults of the game are really starting to grate. i have been playing online with spurs in quick matches and this is the fourth time it has done this i get to so many points and then in the next 30 odd matches i can hardly win a match.
i have gone from losing 2 in 30 to only winning 2 in 30 its as tho there is something set in the system data.
its not because i am playing better opponents are anything like that its hard to explain but such as player switching starts playing up players stop when there is a open goal its as tho alot of the time i am not fully in control of my players and scripting to some degree has taken over its so damn fustrating i am not the worlds best player but neither am i the worst.
so come on konami for pes 12 sort out the AI to have three of your players standing more or less next to the ball and player switch does not select one of them and they all run away from the ball is a complete joke its as tho they have no idea where the ball is. Like gallas in one match i played although its happened a few times he is in my penalty box my opponent plays a ball to his player next to gallas his player switching works but mine has not switched to gallas and before i can press L1 to select him the cpu makes gallas run up the pitch out of the box leaving him with a simple 1 on 1. come on this is a joke.
as i say the last three days this game as been appalling if i play it any longer at present i will snap the damn thing.
when its good this game is a good bloody game but when its bad its friggin awful!! rant over!!!!
i have gone from losing 2 in 30 to only winning 2 in 30 its as tho there is something set in the system data.
its not because i am playing better opponents are anything like that its hard to explain but such as player switching starts playing up players stop when there is a open goal its as tho alot of the time i am not fully in control of my players and scripting to some degree has taken over its so damn fustrating i am not the worlds best player but neither am i the worst.
so come on konami for pes 12 sort out the AI to have three of your players standing more or less next to the ball and player switch does not select one of them and they all run away from the ball is a complete joke its as tho they have no idea where the ball is. Like gallas in one match i played although its happened a few times he is in my penalty box my opponent plays a ball to his player next to gallas his player switching works but mine has not switched to gallas and before i can press L1 to select him the cpu makes gallas run up the pitch out of the box leaving him with a simple 1 on 1. come on this is a joke.
as i say the last three days this game as been appalling if i play it any longer at present i will snap the damn thing.
when its good this game is a good bloody game but when its bad its friggin awful!! rant over!!!!
jflores
Diegoooooooool!
Hope everyone is doing well.
Yesterday I downloaded and applied the March 2011 patch. I then went into my Edit mode in the game and noticed that Ronaldinho is missing and nowhere to be found. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Wonder if this is a glitch or done intentionally by the update.
Yesterday I downloaded and applied the March 2011 patch. I then went into my Edit mode in the game and noticed that Ronaldinho is missing and nowhere to be found. Has anyone else noticed this problem? Wonder if this is a glitch or done intentionally by the update.
UTD-PEARSON
League 2
Great post Jimmy, exactly how I feel about the game and I love it when someone see's the subtle brilliance in this game like I do. I also use the subtle feints great for creating that bit of space, I think dribbling and player individuality have reached another level this year.
Like Rob92 touched on, its crazy how your mood effects the way you play this game, PES is such a subtle game. This game makes me frustrated more than any other pes, but it is the best football sim ever made, imagine how good it would be without some silly flaws and balancing acts.
VIVA PES 2011
The true football fans game(no offence fifa players
) And no I am not a fanboy, jimmy's post filled me with passion as gay as that sounds
Oh and another thing, the manual passing in this game is sublime, you can literally place the ball anywhere depending on how you position the player, the individuality is still there as well.
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Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
Ok I played a couple more manual games of FIFA world cup last night and the frustration kicks in again lol. The amount of times you can get 1 on 1 with the keeper is ridiculous. The defence just pushes up too high and at one point I noticed players were running around like the end of a Benny Hill show. Put PES on and ahhh the players dribble like humans, not like cardboard cutouts! So glad I changed over this year
Anyway I was trying to get the knuckleball technique down pat via the training mode last night...still can't get it happening that often but when it does work the dip and swerve is rather nice...
YouTube - Knuckleball shot - PES 11
If I could score in a game with it, straight to the highlights reel haha
Nice shot, I think I managed it once with Ozil in a game, the shot was from miles out, kinda went flat and dipped, unfortunately it also went miles wide....
I'm really loving the dribbling at the moment, tiny stick movements, using R2, using that sideways dribble with L2 and the right stick, that Matthews turn where you flick the right stick and left stick (great for trying to round keepers), and some other skills attached to the skill move stick seem to be working brilliantly so far
One odd thing I noticed tonight, which I think is amazing. I've been playing international friendlies as Germany, and it's great. You can pretty much play exactly like Germany did in the World Cup - fast breakaway, players popping up all over the place (full backs bombing into the other team's penalty area is great), Ozil sitting behind the striker etc. I saved their formation and settings and then applied them to England to see what would happen, and playing as them felt awful. Even though the game highly rates England, their control to me felt miles worse, but most importantly the player movement off the ball was non-existant in comparison to Germany, on the same settings. Pretty much exactly like the World Cup in fact. I'm starting to see how PES has really introduced player individuality in terms of their play when you aren't controlling them, off the ball. More technical, and more gifted players seem to take up better positions. Playing as Germany in comparison to England was amazing, as Germany I had so many options and put together some awesome attacks. As England, I really struggled, the players were strong but I never seemed to have any passing options and my other players seemed to refuse to get into the other team's penalty area, despite having the same settings as Germany. I'm guessing it's because Konami must realise that Germany are simply miles better than England right now at passing and moving. If so, that adds a massive amount of depth when deciding which ML players to sign. Can't wait to get one started now.
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Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
He has seen the light!
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
LTFC - good to see you enjoying the game finally haha
Yeh the player individuality is more and more noticeable as you get hours of gameplay under your belt.
The subtleties of dribbling are great. And how you can sometimes skin a defender by a little shimmy or dummy or change of direction. Wouldn't happen in FIFA - the defenders leg would have stuck out 4 metres and got the ball, meanwhile sending you on a tumble towards the fence haha.
Formation, team style and how you play are very closely aligned I think. I've had a few losses on MLO now with a couple of new players...slightly tweaked the formation and it's helped. You really have to know your players on PES. Formation wise and what their limitations are with or without the ball. It's definitely a game that gets more rewarding after a few weeks....or months
Yeh the player individuality is more and more noticeable as you get hours of gameplay under your belt.
The subtleties of dribbling are great. And how you can sometimes skin a defender by a little shimmy or dummy or change of direction. Wouldn't happen in FIFA - the defenders leg would have stuck out 4 metres and got the ball, meanwhile sending you on a tumble towards the fence haha.
Formation, team style and how you play are very closely aligned I think. I've had a few losses on MLO now with a couple of new players...slightly tweaked the formation and it's helped. You really have to know your players on PES. Formation wise and what their limitations are with or without the ball. It's definitely a game that gets more rewarding after a few weeks....or months
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
Totally agree now
I've learnt more stuff about shooting tonight too. Probably seem obvious to others but never mind.....
Anyways, the only shots I've been hitting have been the normal shot and the placed shot using R2 while the shot is charging, just after you first press the shoot button. I've also noticed though, that holding R2 before and throughout the shot makes them hit a kind of softer version of the normal powerful type of shot where the player puts his foot through the ball. I've also seen my players putting curve on the shots far more effectively too. I don't think this is a shot modifier as such, but perhaps just a result of slowing the player down because pressing and holding R2 before and during the shot technically means you're momentarily going into the slow dribble. Whatever the reason, it works brilliantly. The power bar seems far less sensitive, meaning you can hit low skimming shots easier, and charge up the bar more for high shots.
The accuracy of the normal shot but while holding R2 seems to go far higher too. I noticed tonight, when deliberately using it, that a vastly larger number of my shots were on target. Earlier I was dominating but missing probably 90% of my chances, later on after noticing this method I started hammering teams. Shots I was trying before were suddenly going where I'd intended. I stopped holding R2 before the shot, and they seemed to go wide far more often again. Using this method I scored a couple of really cool curling, dipping volleys that would have just gone straight, like a rocket, and probably wide by just tapping shoot without holding R2 first.
So I think there's five types of shots then; the uber powerful one, the same type of shot but using R2 BEFORE and during the shot (that I've just described - basically R2 dribbling just before you shoot and holding R2 through the duration of the shot), producing a more accurate, but softer version. Then there's the R2 after pressing shoot to place it with the side of the foot, the lob shot, and the R1 after pressing shoot to softly flip the shot a few feet in the air.
Has anyone else noticed this with holding R2 before hand? Try it with corners. I normally float them in by using R2 after I've pressed the button, but holding R2 before you kick the ball also makes them float it in. Likewise, if you charge up a regular shot really high, it will balloon at crazy speeds. Do the same holding R2 before and during the shot, and it can still fly over, but is far more accurate and softer - much more manageable.
Konami really should do some kind of beginner's guide for all this stuff, it's totally changed from previous versions. It's probably obvious to most of you who've played for ages, but otherwise this kind of thing seemingly needs to be randomly discovered. Some people however are giving up on the game before they ever discover this stuff. I mean five types of shots is amazing, but most people just initially see the insane power drives you get by merely tapping shoot without doing anything else and presume that's all you can do, which is a shame. Konami, I think, have lost a few customers because they simply haven't told people just what you can do with this game.
I've learnt more stuff about shooting tonight too. Probably seem obvious to others but never mind.....
Anyways, the only shots I've been hitting have been the normal shot and the placed shot using R2 while the shot is charging, just after you first press the shoot button. I've also noticed though, that holding R2 before and throughout the shot makes them hit a kind of softer version of the normal powerful type of shot where the player puts his foot through the ball. I've also seen my players putting curve on the shots far more effectively too. I don't think this is a shot modifier as such, but perhaps just a result of slowing the player down because pressing and holding R2 before and during the shot technically means you're momentarily going into the slow dribble. Whatever the reason, it works brilliantly. The power bar seems far less sensitive, meaning you can hit low skimming shots easier, and charge up the bar more for high shots.
The accuracy of the normal shot but while holding R2 seems to go far higher too. I noticed tonight, when deliberately using it, that a vastly larger number of my shots were on target. Earlier I was dominating but missing probably 90% of my chances, later on after noticing this method I started hammering teams. Shots I was trying before were suddenly going where I'd intended. I stopped holding R2 before the shot, and they seemed to go wide far more often again. Using this method I scored a couple of really cool curling, dipping volleys that would have just gone straight, like a rocket, and probably wide by just tapping shoot without holding R2 first.
So I think there's five types of shots then; the uber powerful one, the same type of shot but using R2 BEFORE and during the shot (that I've just described - basically R2 dribbling just before you shoot and holding R2 through the duration of the shot), producing a more accurate, but softer version. Then there's the R2 after pressing shoot to place it with the side of the foot, the lob shot, and the R1 after pressing shoot to softly flip the shot a few feet in the air.
Has anyone else noticed this with holding R2 before hand? Try it with corners. I normally float them in by using R2 after I've pressed the button, but holding R2 before you kick the ball also makes them float it in. Likewise, if you charge up a regular shot really high, it will balloon at crazy speeds. Do the same holding R2 before and during the shot, and it can still fly over, but is far more accurate and softer - much more manageable.
Konami really should do some kind of beginner's guide for all this stuff, it's totally changed from previous versions. It's probably obvious to most of you who've played for ages, but otherwise this kind of thing seemingly needs to be randomly discovered. Some people however are giving up on the game before they ever discover this stuff. I mean five types of shots is amazing, but most people just initially see the insane power drives you get by merely tapping shoot without doing anything else and presume that's all you can do, which is a shame. Konami, I think, have lost a few customers because they simply haven't told people just what you can do with this game.
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CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Interesting. I used to sometimes press R2 too early when I was trying a placed shot and it seemed the player would wrap their foot around the side of the ball. But I would generally hit them over the bar that way. Maybe I will try it again but with less power and see if I can get the ball to curl.
I have found that the slightest of taps when you're 1 v 1 will give a nice gentle placed shot but without having to press R2 after you shoot.
I think the slowing down of the player before you shoot (ie. the composure) is what's helping the shot in the first scenario you described. The same would happen on FIFA...if you slow down for a step or two before you shoot, the accuracy is improved.
I agree with the last comment as well...why must we discover everything by trial and error. If all these different things can be done on Pro Evo...why arent they ALL explained in the manual?
I have found that the slightest of taps when you're 1 v 1 will give a nice gentle placed shot but without having to press R2 after you shoot.
I think the slowing down of the player before you shoot (ie. the composure) is what's helping the shot in the first scenario you described. The same would happen on FIFA...if you slow down for a step or two before you shoot, the accuracy is improved.
I agree with the last comment as well...why must we discover everything by trial and error. If all these different things can be done on Pro Evo...why arent they ALL explained in the manual?
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
There is far too much to even begin to cover in a manual for me. Also, isnt it the PES beauty to be able to learn on the job so to speak ? For me it's always been like that with PES, the more you learn, the deeper it gets. And more so in recent times.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Totally agree now
I've learnt more stuff about shooting tonight too. Probably seem obvious to others but never mind.....
Anyways, the only shots I've been hitting have been the normal shot and the placed shot using R2 while the shot is charging, just after you first press the shoot button. I've also noticed though, that holding R2 before and throughout the shot makes them hit a kind of softer version of the normal powerful type of shot where the player puts his foot through the ball. I've also seen my players putting curve on the shots far more effectively too. I don't think this is a shot modifier as such, but perhaps just a result of slowing the player down because pressing and holding R2 before and during the shot technically means you're momentarily going into the slow dribble. Whatever the reason, it works brilliantly. The power bar seems far less sensitive, meaning you can hit low skimming shots easier, and charge up the bar more for high shots.
The accuracy of the normal shot but while holding R2 seems to go far higher too. I noticed tonight, when deliberately using it, that a vastly larger number of my shots were on target. Earlier I was dominating but missing probably 90% of my chances, later on after noticing this method I started hammering teams. Shots I was trying before were suddenly going where I'd intended. I stopped holding R2 before the shot, and they seemed to go wide far more often again. Using this method I scored a couple of really cool curling, dipping volleys that would have just gone straight, like a rocket, and probably wide by just tapping shoot without holding R2 first.
So I think there's five types of shots then; the uber powerful one, the same type of shot but using R2 BEFORE and during the shot (that I've just described - basically R2 dribbling just before you shoot and holding R2 through the duration of the shot), producing a more accurate, but softer version. Then there's the R2 after pressing shoot to place it with the side of the foot, the lob shot, and the R1 after pressing shoot to softly flip the shot a few feet in the air.
Has anyone else noticed this with holding R2 before hand? Try it with corners. I normally float them in by using R2 after I've pressed the button, but holding R2 before you kick the ball also makes them float it in. Likewise, if you charge up a regular shot really high, it will balloon at crazy speeds. Do the same holding R2 before and during the shot, and it can still fly over, but is far more accurate and softer - much more manageable.
Konami really should do some kind of beginner's guide for all this stuff, it's totally changed from previous versions. It's probably obvious to most of you who've played for ages, but otherwise this kind of thing seemingly needs to be randomly discovered. Some people however are giving up on the game before they ever discover this stuff. I mean five types of shots is amazing, but most people just initially see the insane power drives you get by merely tapping shoot without doing anything else and presume that's all you can do, which is a shame. Konami, I think, have lost a few customers because they simply haven't told people just what you can do with this game.
There are more than the 5 types as well LT, each body angle and posture, relative distance from the ball and timing of the shot will produce so many more variations of the aformentioned techniques. A good one is slowing right down so the ball in under your feet when pressing the L1 chip. This kinda of scoops the ball instead of the 'clipped' chip that happens when your on the run and you try the same shot. Very similiar to Poborsky's against Portugal in Euro 96. This can be used to great effect to chip the keeper when your inside the box, and much more successful than attempting the chip in mid-stride and closer to the goal. You still require a player with high shooting technique though to pull this off, 81 + is usually enough if his form is good on the day.
Also, I've started to use R2 (pressed after I press Circle as an aftertouch)for lofted high passes to great effect of late. I started using it when crossing to ensure the ball held up in the air so my strikers had time to really attack it, but more recently it's worked wonders for 20-30 yard high passes in tight areas. It adds more loft and reduces the zip which makes it easier for lesser technical players to ensure a better first touch.
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Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
Yeah I've started using R2 when I play any kind of ball, even a simple pass. It feels slightly more weighted, and deliberate rather than the usual passes zipping crazily along the turf.
As for Komani issuing some kind of instruction manual, well sure I love discovering new things too, but I don't think it would hurt Konami to at least give a guide as to the basics. I think many people turned the game on, the initial range of stuff it looks like you can do seems limited, and they turn it off and go play FIFA instead, which is a shame. I mean the moves list in the in-game options doesn't even list half the stuff you can do.
I think a lot of what Konami have added is genius but doesn't get discovered because of basic, simple principles that currently go against what other football games have done before. I mean really simple stuff, like simply moving your player with tiny movements of the left stick. It's not usually any kind of an issue with football games, but brilliantly, and something that's revolutionised how much I can do in a game, barely moving the stick at all lets your player take smaller, more frequent touches of the ball, which allows you more space and time, and also seems to allow your team enough time to take up better positions around you. Even controlling the ball is easier as a softer body movement towards a pass allows smaller, more deliberate touches of the ball and that's before you even get into the whole R2 scenario. Yet no-where does Konami mention this in the moves list. It's a kind of obvious thing if you think about it, but most people wouldn't think of controlling a player by dribbling and barely moving the left stick. I can barely think of any games across any genres that rely on such a varied use of the direction stick, so Konami should have at least played it up by bragging about how varied it can be. Maybe that's the problem, they don't seem to sell their hard work very well to the wider public.
As for Komani issuing some kind of instruction manual, well sure I love discovering new things too, but I don't think it would hurt Konami to at least give a guide as to the basics. I think many people turned the game on, the initial range of stuff it looks like you can do seems limited, and they turn it off and go play FIFA instead, which is a shame. I mean the moves list in the in-game options doesn't even list half the stuff you can do.
I think a lot of what Konami have added is genius but doesn't get discovered because of basic, simple principles that currently go against what other football games have done before. I mean really simple stuff, like simply moving your player with tiny movements of the left stick. It's not usually any kind of an issue with football games, but brilliantly, and something that's revolutionised how much I can do in a game, barely moving the stick at all lets your player take smaller, more frequent touches of the ball, which allows you more space and time, and also seems to allow your team enough time to take up better positions around you. Even controlling the ball is easier as a softer body movement towards a pass allows smaller, more deliberate touches of the ball and that's before you even get into the whole R2 scenario. Yet no-where does Konami mention this in the moves list. It's a kind of obvious thing if you think about it, but most people wouldn't think of controlling a player by dribbling and barely moving the left stick. I can barely think of any games across any genres that rely on such a varied use of the direction stick, so Konami should have at least played it up by bragging about how varied it can be. Maybe that's the problem, they don't seem to sell their hard work very well to the wider public.
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Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
True, but so much of it, as Pearson stated, is so very subtle. I mean, how do you print all that ? 
As for the small touches, you need those to buy that valuable second or two to give your CPU Ai players time to move into spaces and provide options. There is nothing better then using R2 and an opposite direction on the stick to change direction. Just that subtle movement alone creates so many many options as your team mates look to find space, make runs, and provide completely alternate options to what was availble prior to that turn.
Composure is key to PES, and X is your best friend. There is no coincidence that ensuring your facing in the right direction of the pass, on your favoured foot and with decent balance (R2 again) produces a much higher degree of consistency across the board throughout the whole range of passing. This isnt by fluke, it's pure fundamental replication.
It makes me sick to the stomach to see gamers opt for the same cheap moves over and over again when they have world class players at their disposal. Criminal. We have a game here that once understood gives you almost limitless options to express yourself beautifully. Yet they abuse that option in favour of a win at all costs mentality. I dont understand it at all, honest I really dont. What a waste.
As for the small touches, you need those to buy that valuable second or two to give your CPU Ai players time to move into spaces and provide options. There is nothing better then using R2 and an opposite direction on the stick to change direction. Just that subtle movement alone creates so many many options as your team mates look to find space, make runs, and provide completely alternate options to what was availble prior to that turn.
Composure is key to PES, and X is your best friend. There is no coincidence that ensuring your facing in the right direction of the pass, on your favoured foot and with decent balance (R2 again) produces a much higher degree of consistency across the board throughout the whole range of passing. This isnt by fluke, it's pure fundamental replication.
It makes me sick to the stomach to see gamers opt for the same cheap moves over and over again when they have world class players at their disposal. Criminal. We have a game here that once understood gives you almost limitless options to express yourself beautifully. Yet they abuse that option in favour of a win at all costs mentality. I dont understand it at all, honest I really dont. What a waste.
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sincover
Championship
- 16 August 2010
True, but so much of it, as Pearson stated, is so very subtle. I mean, how do you print all that ?
It makes me sick to the stomach to see gamers opt for the same cheap moves over and over again when they have world class players are their disposal. Criminal. We have a game here that once understood gives you almost limitless options to express yourself beautifully. Yet they abuse that option in favour of a win at all costs mentality. I dont understand it at all, honest I really dont. What a waste.
Most people don't play games to have a cerebral experience. They just want to have quick mindless fun. Hell, I know ALOT of people that can't even be bothered to watch a full game of real football, they just want to see the highlights. Those kind of folks (the majority of people) are not the types who want to sit for 20-30mins and strategize in a videogame. Much like watching 5 min highlights, they would rather play a quick 3-5 min game with lots of action. Maybe Konami should hire an independent video producer to create a series of informative tutorial videos about properly implementing strategy and tactics.
Let me be clear: I really like PES 2011. It is head and shoulders above the competition at what it does well. I appreciate all of the nuances that Konami has developed over the years. When playing against a human opponent that also enjoys strategy and tactics, it is a joy to behold. However, playing against the AI is an absolute chore and is where most (if not all) of my complaints lie.
xPJRx
PESFX
Agree with all the comments from LTFC and Jimmy about needing to 'learn' PES11 before you can fully appreciate it, i've been through the cycle am still learning but am ultimately enjoying the game alot more.
I see so much mentioned about using R2 and it is an essential part of the armoury, but you have to be careful when to use it, as pressing it too soon to attempt to control a ball that your running on to will often just move your player out of position (R2 is position modifier when ball is in the air too), you have to be very concise and make sure you press R2 righ at the moment you receive the ball.
I would also suggest L2 (Close control), ive recently found this essential in my play, good for tight dribbling but more importantly for bringing air balls down nice and tightly and also can be used to knock the ball way from defenders lunges etc when dribbling.
I see so much mentioned about using R2 and it is an essential part of the armoury, but you have to be careful when to use it, as pressing it too soon to attempt to control a ball that your running on to will often just move your player out of position (R2 is position modifier when ball is in the air too), you have to be very concise and make sure you press R2 righ at the moment you receive the ball.
I would also suggest L2 (Close control), ive recently found this essential in my play, good for tight dribbling but more importantly for bringing air balls down nice and tightly and also can be used to knock the ball way from defenders lunges etc when dribbling.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
Great point about the R2 modifier, I only ever press R2 when already in control, or just when the ball connects, for chest control etc, otherwise you do move your player unwittingly away from the ball. I have to be honest, after almost 1000 hours ( Yes I know thats sad), I'm still learning everyday. I'll probably continue to do so until PES 2012.
I've just started an offline CL with my new PEEL team Olympiacos. I won it on Professional too easily to be honest, so I've started a new campaign on Top Player 15 minute games. This is much harder, but much better. I managed to beat Inter 2-1 in my first game, they hit the bar and post 3 times in the last 5 minutes, and missed an open goal. I then somehow came from behind to beat Cluj with two goal's in the last 2 minutes. One goal on 89' and another on 90'+. Im sure the CPU Ai must be complaining on some PS3 forum of human scripted cheating.
I've just started an offline CL with my new PEEL team Olympiacos. I won it on Professional too easily to be honest, so I've started a new campaign on Top Player 15 minute games. This is much harder, but much better. I managed to beat Inter 2-1 in my first game, they hit the bar and post 3 times in the last 5 minutes, and missed an open goal. I then somehow came from behind to beat Cluj with two goal's in the last 2 minutes. One goal on 89' and another on 90'+. Im sure the CPU Ai must be complaining on some PS3 forum of human scripted cheating.
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UTD-PEARSON
League 2
The more I have played the game the more I have utilised long ball and lofted long ball, I honestly think konami have this perfect, it is the perfect example of how to mix stats and user input and lets hope they don't mess with it for pes 2012. The left stick in this game is so sensitive as well which makes dribbling and passing almost perfect, this game forces me to think like I would when playing for real. Last night I produced some great dribbling with vucinic by using RT and the players weight to get in front of the defender, if you position yourself correctly you can hold off defenders for yards.
One of the reasons I loved last gen pes was simple, after 5 months the game would be more enjoyable than after two weeks, the attention to detail was wonderful, this is back in abundance this year especially with gameplay.
I think the shooting replicates real life almost perfectly, it allows you to create so many different shot types based on many variables. It also replicates the instinctive nature of striking a ball in real life and the uncertainty of where the ball might go. For example how many times in real life have you connected with a ball perfectly and its flew into the top corner without you necessarily aiming perfectly or planning the shot ahead, most of the time this happens instinctively and comes down to your natural technique, its not like you have an exact idea of where the ball will go, PES replicates this very well as the ball travels depending on numerous factors.
I hope my last long point made sense, quite hard to explain.
One of the reasons I loved last gen pes was simple, after 5 months the game would be more enjoyable than after two weeks, the attention to detail was wonderful, this is back in abundance this year especially with gameplay.
I think the shooting replicates real life almost perfectly, it allows you to create so many different shot types based on many variables. It also replicates the instinctive nature of striking a ball in real life and the uncertainty of where the ball might go. For example how many times in real life have you connected with a ball perfectly and its flew into the top corner without you necessarily aiming perfectly or planning the shot ahead, most of the time this happens instinctively and comes down to your natural technique, its not like you have an exact idea of where the ball will go, PES replicates this very well as the ball travels depending on numerous factors.
I hope my last long point made sense, quite hard to explain.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
It made perfect sense and I agree 100%. Funnily enough, without trying to look like the bellend that quotes himself, I talked about this in the MLO thread. We were discussing the realistic nature and replication of long range shooting. Forgive the quote, but it saves writing it out again, but it is basically exactly what you have just written.
That instinctive nature of shooting is probably one of PES's greatest achievements. There is a true feeling, just as in real-life, that when you catch a strike in a certain way, you know it's going to stay hit. When all the variables are in place, you know the strike is going to ask a serious question.
That instinctive nature of shooting is probably one of PES's greatest achievements. There is a true feeling, just as in real-life, that when you catch a strike in a certain way, you know it's going to stay hit. When all the variables are in place, you know the strike is going to ask a serious question.
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henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
We probably all know that animation-transitions and physics need a lot of work for PES 2012, it needs to become smoother, more varied and more realistic.
The AI also needs major work in order to become more aware and more alive.
Control must become more refined and never shutting us out of it: Sometimes the AI takes over the control of my player eventhough he is selected and I try to do something different but the AI decides that it is best he runs towards the ball or towards an opponent or whatever resulting in unwished situations like the ball being carried over the sideline/cornerline or other things. If I have switched to a player he should always be under my control and if I want that he doesn't touch the ball, that he doesn't run there... then so be it.
The game is too simple, simple as that, I'm playing already on top-player and yet I never feel a challenge or thrill. Football is all about challenge and thrills but it's not there. The only problems with my opponents occur either through corners or freekicks that could and often do result in goals but seldomly if not never from within the moving game.
Sometimes in order to up the challenge I press the Lt-button on my xbox360-controller to make manual passes and look and behold it feels more free and unpredictable with some passes going wrong... I liked it, but I didn't like that I had to press Lt for it to work, as it interfered with the pressing of Lb for switching. So I hope that in PES 2012 there will be an option to allow manual passing (but of course with stats having influence) as a standard without having to press something constantly.
Bugs, bugs, bugs need to be reduced. Player-switching, AI-awareness, goalkeeper... lots of bugs there, and the referees need to finally understand offside like it's practiced in reality with passive and active one and other nuances.
Atmosphere needs a major upping, even in PES 5 the atmosphere was better (how can that be?).
But otherwise PES 2011 is a way more realistic football experience than PES 5, despite it being the more polished game.
Fatigue-system needs to become more realistic, currently all players are becoming tired at the same rate regardless of how much they ran on the pitch, it needs to become more precise and measured according to the on the pitch-performance and it should be as well statbased and depending on form. And then there should be two different fatigue-systems, one being the short-term, the other the long-term one. Someone dribbling a lot in a certain situation should be out of breath for a few moments due to the shortterm fatigueness...
The players should be more mobile and active in creating situations or destroying situations. In the offense players should be interested to offer passing-opportunities by either falling back a little or going forward or sideways, getting some room from the defense. In defense players should be more context-sensitive and not only concentrate on the player with the ball but trying to foresee what could happen in a moment and denying it for example by getting closer to the next pass-partners of the ball-player and intercepting a play..
I try to enforce that with my players by switching around a lot, but I wish that the CPU-opponent would be more intelligent in defense that way.
Ok, enough of the big topics, the small things also need some attention:
The nets should become realistic.
Coin-throwing for side-decision.
Replay-camera must become free-flowing again.
Penalty-camera should be behind the player and penalty-shooting should become easier.
Enough, I'll play a bit PES 2011 now.
The AI also needs major work in order to become more aware and more alive.
Control must become more refined and never shutting us out of it: Sometimes the AI takes over the control of my player eventhough he is selected and I try to do something different but the AI decides that it is best he runs towards the ball or towards an opponent or whatever resulting in unwished situations like the ball being carried over the sideline/cornerline or other things. If I have switched to a player he should always be under my control and if I want that he doesn't touch the ball, that he doesn't run there... then so be it.
The game is too simple, simple as that, I'm playing already on top-player and yet I never feel a challenge or thrill. Football is all about challenge and thrills but it's not there. The only problems with my opponents occur either through corners or freekicks that could and often do result in goals but seldomly if not never from within the moving game.
Sometimes in order to up the challenge I press the Lt-button on my xbox360-controller to make manual passes and look and behold it feels more free and unpredictable with some passes going wrong... I liked it, but I didn't like that I had to press Lt for it to work, as it interfered with the pressing of Lb for switching. So I hope that in PES 2012 there will be an option to allow manual passing (but of course with stats having influence) as a standard without having to press something constantly.
Bugs, bugs, bugs need to be reduced. Player-switching, AI-awareness, goalkeeper... lots of bugs there, and the referees need to finally understand offside like it's practiced in reality with passive and active one and other nuances.
Atmosphere needs a major upping, even in PES 5 the atmosphere was better (how can that be?).
But otherwise PES 2011 is a way more realistic football experience than PES 5, despite it being the more polished game.
Fatigue-system needs to become more realistic, currently all players are becoming tired at the same rate regardless of how much they ran on the pitch, it needs to become more precise and measured according to the on the pitch-performance and it should be as well statbased and depending on form. And then there should be two different fatigue-systems, one being the short-term, the other the long-term one. Someone dribbling a lot in a certain situation should be out of breath for a few moments due to the shortterm fatigueness...
The players should be more mobile and active in creating situations or destroying situations. In the offense players should be interested to offer passing-opportunities by either falling back a little or going forward or sideways, getting some room from the defense. In defense players should be more context-sensitive and not only concentrate on the player with the ball but trying to foresee what could happen in a moment and denying it for example by getting closer to the next pass-partners of the ball-player and intercepting a play..
I try to enforce that with my players by switching around a lot, but I wish that the CPU-opponent would be more intelligent in defense that way.
Ok, enough of the big topics, the small things also need some attention:
The nets should become realistic.
Coin-throwing for side-decision.
Replay-camera must become free-flowing again.
Penalty-camera should be behind the player and penalty-shooting should become easier.
Enough, I'll play a bit PES 2011 now.
Primepeace
Championship
- 29 August 2009
after all that is mentioned the most disturbing part of pes 2011 is that nearly every shot is blocked outside the penalty box, the game itself actually almost resembles netball, i am warning konami about pes 2012 that money is not everything, sometimes tragedy can struck at the least expected moment, we were in grief when the earthquake hit japan, konami must be more wise and not let pes 2012 be part of a materialistic approach and just pocket from the game, i have doubts about those people who are newly employed at konami headquarters, i recommend to look back at previous versions of the game rather than go forward and introduce more robotics, let's keep it simple.
I then somehow came from behind to beat Cluj with two goal's in the last 2 minutes. One goal on 89' and another on 90'+. Im sure the CPU Ai must be complaining on some PS3 forum of human scripted cheating.
