PES 2011 Discussion thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
I must admit I won't be holding my breath for Konami to win the animation war, for whatever reason I just don't buy it. I think EA will always rule in that regard. Their fluidity has no peers.
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Then you really should download the demo of NBA2K11, Jimmy. I know you're not into basketball but give it a go just to see how well this game moves. Then you'll see that other sports games can hit the same heights as Fifa (and on a lower budget). This is the level Seabass should be aiming to achieve.
 
Yeah I've downloaded it Jamez, and it looks truly incredible. I dont think I have ever seen anything move like that Basketball game. It's jaw-dropping. I was referring in football game context originally. In defence of Konami though, although they arent as smooth as EA, I do feel alot of the animations are more relevant to the given situation at times. And in effect, more diverse to each individual. Which could be argued, is actually more realistic, if not as pleasing on the eye.
 
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I've said it time and time again, but when I used to play FIFA and score a goal, I never really felt it like I do with the PES series.

I used to play FIFA games since the very first one and bought all of them up until about FIFA 07, so I cant be accused of being a "PES Fan Boy", but really, I've played both and I get so much more satisfaction out of scoring a goal on PES :)
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Yeah I've downloaded it Jamez, and it looks truly incredible. I dont think I have ever seen anything move like that Basketball game. It's jaw-dropping. I was referring in football game context originally. In defence of Konami though, although they arent as smooth as EA, I do feel alot of the animations are more relevant to the given situation at times. And in effect, more diverse to each individual. Which could be argued, is actually more realistic, if not as pleasing on the eye.
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Agreed, there's many nice animations in PES2011 but the main problem is still the transitions between them. Konami really need to work on this to make the game feel smoother as PES2011 still has a little jerkiness to it, which among other things gives me a constant reminder of PES2010.

They need to get back to the player specific animations as well. I know PES2011 has a number of running and kicking styles but it's still not at the level of the PS2 games where many of the star players had signature movements.
 
PES 2011's animations look fine to me, I actually like them - there definitely needs to be more variety in shooting/passing/crossing/tackling/stumbling (in particular) animations, but the general movement is good.

The shoulder drop animation that happens when you go to take the ball one way but then decide on another at the last moment is my favourite, looks great :).
 
The "Base" animations are fine, but once the game starts trying to show complicated stuff it all falls down sort off, Great start but they need to improve on it as much as they did with PES 11.
 
Does anyone else have trouble with diving headers? I dont think I have ever even connected with the ball! I always come up just short, I dont think its a timing issue as the gap between head and ball always seems to be the same.
Also something else thats bothering me is the inabilty to hit a first time shot when coming onto a low hard pass infront of goal. The player always runs into it and never strikes the ball :RANT:.
 
Ern Dog said:
Does anyone else have trouble with diving headers? I dont think I have ever even connected with the ball! I always come up just short, I dont think its a timing issue as the gap between head and ball always seems to be the same.
Also something else thats bothering me is the inabilty to hit a first time shot when coming onto a low hard pass infront of goal. The player always runs into it and never strikes the ball :RANT:.
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I don't like the diving headers either, I have the same problem with them.
I have scored a few though, here's one example;
YouTube - PES 2011 MLO - Heskey diving header

Regarding low crosses, their success rate is so high that were strikers able to convert them often, they would be a massively cheesy tactic online (moreso than they already are).
 
Rob92 said:
I don't like the diving headers either, I have the same problem with them.
I have scored a few though, here's one example;
YouTube - PES 2011 MLO - Heskey diving header

Regarding low crosses, their success rate is so high that were strikers able to convert them often, they would be a massively cheesy tactic online (moreso than they already are).
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They are possible then, MUST be my timing, strange how I seem to always miss it by the same distance though.

So not being able to hit a low cross first time is a "fix" for potential abuse?
 
Ern Dog said:
Does anyone else have trouble with diving headers? I dont think I have ever even connected with the ball! I always come up just short, I dont think its a timing issue as the gap between head and ball always seems to be the same.
Also something else thats bothering me is the inabilty to hit a first time shot when coming onto a low hard pass infront of goal. The player always runs into it and never strikes the ball :RANT:.
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It's all about perfect timing Tom, I'm connecting now, but have about a 50% goal conversion rate. I love how they have done them, alot more realistic than any other PES for me. Diving headers are one of hardest techniques to master in real life and they are replicated well in my opinion.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
It's all about perfect timing Tom, I'm connecting now, but have about a 50% goal conversion rate. I love how they have done them, alot more realistic than any other PES for me. Diving headers are one of hardest techniques to master in real life and they are replicated well in my opinion.
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Ah OK, I guess that Gutierrez's heading stat probably isnt helping me either.

On another note I was thinking earlier what makes the game soo addictive despite its shortcomings. Konamis biggest triumph IMO is that they have made the basics of the game enjoyable and satisfying. I love to do the most simple things like recieve a pass and then shape up to pass the ball on, recieve the ball in a tight area and using the close control work an angle for a simple ball out of danger. Maybe Im just a bit sad but stuff like that to me can be as satisfying as scoring a goal. I have probably watched more replays of my players playing a nice pass after some great control than replays of goals.
 
The timing of diving headers is not easy to learn and once you hit a couple, there's no guarantee you can keep doing it, which is a good thing! Try changing your camera angle perhaps if you're having trouble getting onto the end of headers?
 
Jamezinho said:
Private MLO leagues would be the answer. We all said it during the MLO beta testing. Hopefully Konami show they are listening and implement this for PES2012.

MLO has such great potential but what ruins it above all else is other people.
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Played online yesterday in a competition and regretted it in no time. Came up against Brasil, Argentina,and England. Lost all games with 1 goal difference. I know some people may know how to beat these knobs, but tbh I care more about the quality of the whole game, the experience as a whole. Even if I did win, it was no fun at all. After the game is over, there's nothing I'd want to remember, and I just don't want to have anything to do with such miserable games.

Playing people from PEEL on the other hand, whether win, draw or lose, you'll always leave the game with a smile on your face.

Played Kaiser a couple times already and damn the quality of the games we had are from another planet.

All that Knobby 1 (Lobby 1) business made me think about suggesting to Konami they introduce age groups. I know it may not seem like the best idea, but that's the first thing that hit my mind after playing that competition with the Knobbies.

Whether it be private MLO, age groups, or whatever, I just hope they segregate us from them fgs.
 
Been back to this after getting a ps3 for downstairs and picking the game up cheap after initially enjoying it and then feeling frustrated.

The only conclusion i can come to is that it reminds me of FIFA 07 on next gen consoles.

By that i mean it reminds me when EA started with their new engine, new player models and the beginning of new ball physics. The game was ok, not good, there was good elements like player weight and the shooting and the move away from arcade style, it had the basis there to build on but it was coming up short.

thats what Pes reminds me of. Theres a good core basis there but it falls short because it needs more time and investment.

I think the ball physics though need massive work. It looks and feels far to scripted. Passes bend unnaturally to players even as short as a few yards as the scripting kicks in and the roll speed slows too quickly when reaching a player. The shooting is good but random - to this day i still have no clue how to strategise my shooting, with the same player a simple tap can send in a low rocket but next time under no pressure can send it into orbit.

The keepers are better but need more variety of saves, theres not enough one handed tip aways and they never really 'stretch' full length.

I love the player models though and some of the animations, but as someone said above it falls down when it tries to do more complex animations.

All in all if they dont mess but improve ares of teh game it will grow as Fifa did. If tehy rip it up again we'll get another game falling short next year.

heres hoping.
 
Before Konami worry about glossy super-fluent animation they need to get the core basic aspects of their game right.
Im so close to ditching this game due to so many broken aspects of it, its untrue, i soooo want to love this game but playing is more of a chore lately than enjoyable.
I picked up PES 6 for 99p and am considering going back to that, thats how agitated i am.
 
Hi there...I have to say that PES this year around is the return of a sleepy giant. Problems already reported here aside, it's great fun and a terrible adiction. I have played the competition last year and I must admit it was better, this year what I get from PES is something FIFA never stood up to...imprevisibility...player differences...and great pleasure. FIFA was like playing a game, I think PES is like supporting your team, you feel the eager to play and the culmination in scoring. I cannot begin to explain the feeling that was lost and with this year chapter is back again. Obviously it has some flagrant flaws but we have to admit that this is a game to please the fans.

BTW someone knows how to do that little trick of jumping or open the legs to let the ball go to one of your teammates? It used to be R1 but it doesn't work for me...
 
xPJRx said:
Before Konami worry about glossy super-fluent animation they need to get the core basic aspects of their game right.
Im so close to ditching this game due to so many broken aspects of it, its untrue, i soooo want to love this game but playing is more of a chore lately than enjoyable.
I picked up PES 6 for 99p and am considering going back to that, thats how agitated i am.
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I'm sorry mate, and I know people have different tastes and all, but the fact that you mentioned PES6 there tells me more about your taste. You want the ultra quick PES of old. Sure that was good back in the day, but tbh after playing 2010 and 2011 I just can't play these games again. They feel far too quick for my liking and all the ultra quick animation transitions don't look or feel right. Player response times are better obviously in PS2 PES's, but that's about it for me.

I think you need to try dropping your old PES style of football, specially the quickness and try getting used to something more realistic. I know it can be a chore at first, and also if you're still trying to play the PS2 way, but somehow try erasing that from your memory and play a slower game. You should be reaping results then.

WishMaster 23 said:
BTW someone knows how to do that little trick of jumping or open the legs to let the ball go to one of your teammates? It used to be R1 but it doesn't work for me...
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I hold the sprint button alone when it's close. That's what I do and it works for me.
 
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Lami said:
I'm sorry mate, and I know people have different tastes and all, but the fact that you mentioned PES6 there tells me more about your taste. You want the ultra quick PES of old. Sure that was good back in the day, but tbh after playing 2010 and 2011 I just can't play these games again. They feel far too quick for my liking and all the ultra quick animation transitions don't look or feel right. Player response times are better obviously in PS2 PES's, but that's about it for me.

I think you need to try dropping your old PES style of football, specially the quickness and try getting used to something more realistic. I know it can be a chore at first, and also if you're still trying to play the PS2 way, but somehow try erasing that from your memory and play a slower game. You should be reaping results then.
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Lami... Thanks for the feedback, thats why I post here because i respect the people that post here as I know they love the game and arent 13yr old fan boys, but your suggestion of my style of play falls down as I have NEVER playd Pes 6 before.
I missed it when it was actually released as i used to play FIFA solely, so im not into the whole hyper-speed quick PES style that you mentioned.
I much prefer a slow, realistic, fluent build up akin to real football, in fact I have been playing PES11 on speed of -2, im just coming up against so many shot comings in the game that im finding it impossible to enjoy at the moment.

Have just posted a new thread kind of begging for help so maybe i'll pick up a few tips, but at the moment im in a desperate place.
 
I must say I don't feel that PES 2011 is in any way a super speed game. It has definitely it's moments of speed especially when you have speedy players like Messi or even Ronaldo, especially Arshavin. But if you play -1 or at the most -2 the game really slows down...
I had a game against a friend of mine the other day in -1 and he was a Fifa player to say the least and I had to put the game speed in +1 for him to adapt because he was always saying the players didn't responded. I didn't agree but this is a matter of opinion this year. PES 2010 was a speed fest and the animation was some kind of troubled because of that. I really give credit to konami to put a speed option there to satisfy the masses.

Just to end the point...I'm from the time when PLF(Great Sina) did option files in Evo-Web for PS2 versions of PES that reduced the pace of the game to improve playbility so I know this isn't a war of today.
 
xPJRx said:
Lami... Thanks for the feedback, thats why I post here because i respect the people that post here as I know they love the game and arent 13yr old fan boys, but your suggestion of my style of play falls down as I have NEVER playd Pes 6 before.
I missed it when it was actually released as i used to play FIFA solely, so im not into the whole hyper-speed quick PES style that you mentioned.
I much prefer a slow, realistic, fluent build up akin to real football, in fact I have been playing PES11 on speed of -2, im just coming up against so many shot comings in the game that im finding it impossible to enjoy at the moment.

Have just posted a new thread kind of begging for help so maybe i'll pick up a few tips, but at the moment im in a desperate place.
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The bolded statement is quite surprising to me, as that style doesn't bode well with PES 6. If you still can't enjoy 2011, you should try PES 5 then, that should keep you company :)
 
Lami said:
The bolded statement is quite surprising to me, as that style doesn't bode well with PES 6. If you still can't enjoy 2011, you should try PES 5 then, that should keep you company :)
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Haha I dont know why you are picking up on PES 6 all the time, i simply said i am considering PES 6 as i picked it up for 99p and its the only other footy game I have bar FIFA 11, and i dont fancy that as there's no decent offline mode to play in.

I just want a good flaw-free footy game to see me through the year, dont care if its PES3,4,5,6 or 10 ... i just know it isnt PES11!
 
xPJRx said:
Haha I dont know why you are picking up on PES 6 all the time, i simply said i am considering PES 6 as i picked it up for 99p and its the only other footy game I have bar FIFA 11, and i dont fancy that as there's no decent offline mode to play in.

I just want a good flaw-free footy game to see me through the year, dont care if its PES3,4,5,6 or 10 ... i just know it isnt PES11!
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Lami's right though. PES6 is widely considered to be a fast-paced, slightly more arcadey game compared to PES5, which for me is the best game in the series.


WishMaster 23 said:
BTW someone knows how to do that little trick of jumping or open the legs to let the ball go to one of your teammates? It used to be R1 but it doesn't work for me...
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You need to hold down R1 with no directional input to attempt the standing dummy. It works for me.
 
Compared to FIFA11, PES' speed is perfect. Plus you can adjust it to your liking, which is awesome. Playing FIFA11, I feel I'm more in a battle with trying to stop my players from running into the opposition because the players actually move far to quickly from a stationary point. The ball movement speed and sprint speeds are fine, it's just the speed in which you can accelerate and make sudden, drastic movements without any consideration for gravity, body height or weight.

You can literally move one way, then flip back into the entirely opposite direction at a bizarre speed in the blink of an eye in FIFA. PES doesn't allow you to do this. But rather than FIFA's player model speeds actually allowing you to do amazing dribbles etc, all you do is run into the opposition alot because the AI utilises the 'reaction' and acceleration times of the player models to close you down in an insane way. In short, I don't see FIFA's animations and physics to be remotely ahead of PES. FIFA's look perhaps slightly more fluid, but they certainly don't mimmick any kind of real world physics.

Having played both games this year for an extended period of time, PES for me is technically better. The animations look fine to me, jostling is far superior to FIFA's 'quarterback' style bulldozer tackling, the pace of the game is better, player models (faces in particular) are far superior in PES. Check out FIFA's player models, they just don't look right even if they do move in a slightly more fluid way. Player shoulders are oddly sloped for one thing.

That said, I still prefer the ball physics on FIFA, and I'm still raging about the AI pressure in both games, I think it's a cheap way for the developers to make the game 'harder' without actually needing to bother coding decent defensive AI. Without this being drastically altered, all the animation issues or collision detection in the world will still make me switch them off. And another problem I'm encountering in both games is the high level of possession you have compared to the AI, with minimal rewards. It's as if neither game can really compete on a decent footballing level, neither can score from using patient build up, instead it soaks up pressure and hits you hard on the break on occasion. And dominating a match only to lose against the run of play, which is what happens every time I ever lose on either game, is actually the most frustrating way that teams lose a match in real life. So that doesn't really bode well for making a game challenging but fun.

I seriously wouldn't mind losing occasionally on either game if I played an even game where both teams had decent chances, but the AI takes more of theirs. Instead, what always happens, is that I have at at least 60% of the ball, 10 shots to 2 for example, and somehow lose the game 1-0. This happens on PES and FIFA and is the only way I ever lose a game, and is indicitave of poor AI. That said, PES is less frustrating, at least it has a high variety of ways that it scores against you, FIFA can literally ONLY do one move where a central player plays a long high ball to the wings and over your full back, crosses, heads into the goal. Every single time.

But all in all it's the AI that's putting me off playing both games for the moment, I've gone back to Battlefield Bad Company 2 online recently and totally ignored both games for a while. Which is rubbish.
 
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xPJRx said:
Haha I dont know why you are picking up on PES 6 all the time, i simply said i am considering PES 6 as i picked it up for 99p and its the only other footy game I have bar FIFA 11, and i dont fancy that as there's no decent offline mode to play in.

I just want a good flaw-free footy game to see me through the year, dont care if its PES3,4,5,6 or 10 ... i just know it isnt PES11!
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:P

There isn't a flaw-free footy game mate. There isn't even a flaw-free video game to begin with, imo. Some have major flaws while others have minor ones you can learn to live with.

But really though, if you want a good game of football that would match your style on the PS2 then it's either PES5 or WE10.

Btw, if you still want to give PES 2011 a chance and would like to play online with like minded people and happen to have a quick connection then PM Jimmy G Force.
 
I'm back playing in the light, finding it hard to get back into PES mode though and the player switching is hacking me off, still there are times when I'm back in the WE days.
As I'm still playing both it's going to take some time to get used to the old master but I'm willing to put the effort in...
 
From Dark to Light, welcome back Nick ;)

Or is it, Espionage? :PIRATE:

EDIT: DLC is out btw. How can I keep my current OF without it getting damaged though?
 
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