PES 2011 Discussion thread

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Ameppe said:
i repeat it again
i played almost 220 games online and there was button lag just in 10-20 games

for me online tecnically is good, but ruined by Messi & Co. :MAD:
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exactly...I now have the message 'please no barca/real' when i play...but noobs take them in spite of it lol.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

I just hope that KONAMI doesnt stubbornly believe that its monopoly in the Japanese market is enough....Because sadly FIFA doesnt even dream entering the sales charts in Japan....
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

it's not true that nothing changes.. Even if my favourite one is PES6 PS2, I must admit that PES2010 has been a huge improvement over the 2009 one, and the 2009 one has been a fair improvement over the 2008 one.

So I'm confident.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

*aLe said:
it's not true that nothing changes.. Even if my favourite one is PES6 PS2, I must admit that PES2010 has been a huge improvement over the 2009 one, and the 2009 one has been a fair improvement over the 2008 one.

So I'm confident.
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Of course but these improvements are not enought in next-gen era. You have to compare PES on PS2 at the time when was created and Pes 2008 for PS3. PES 3 was technically very good game and another titles were very, very good too. PES 2008 on PS3 was crap, 2009 was bad game and PES 2010 is decent game but
still very far what we want and what PES shuold be in next-gen era.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Sure. I clearly stated that the game I like most is PES6 PS2 (with which we played another tournament last week and which we're not going to drop), but I really think that Konami is on the right path with PES2010.
At least it brought back to me the joy to play that I had with PES6, joy which was nowhere near being seen with 2008 and 2009 installments.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

There's an upward trend, which is the positive thing. Since PES2008 each game has steadily improved, albeit too slowly. If Konami fix the simple flaws in PES2010 and build in a good animation engine and collision detection, then I think PES2011 will be a very good game. I think it will put to bed the calls for a complete rework and new game engine.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Jamezinho said:
There's an upward trend, which is the positive thing. Since PES2008 each game has steadily improved, albeit too slowly. If Konami fix the simple flaws in PES2010 and build in a good animation engine and collision detection, then I think PES2011 will be a very good game. I think it will put to bed the calls for a complete rework and new game engine.
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For new engine is to late. I think that KONAMI in Pes 2011 will make good animations but I afraid for collision detection:CONF:
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

lons_pl said:
For new engine is to late. I think that KONAMI in Pes 2011 will make good animations but I afraid for collision detection:CONF:
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It may not need a new engine, that was my point. With proper animations and more freedom it may feel like a different game.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

upward trend yes, but within the engine, they wont do a new engine in this generation

i doubt that a new animation + colission system CAN be impemented well in 2011

would be better to start from the scratch, even if its an unfinished product i will buy it, if i see general improvements
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

I'd be really happy with a little more responsiveness and reworked animations..

I especially really hate that animation when the players turn 90° quite "playing a trick" with the ball (sorry but I can't explain it better) losing a big amount of time, and those "slide-shots" overperformed anytime but when they're necessary.

Then, well, ball handling is still an issue.
I still feel I have too little control on the players: the way the pass, the way they shoot.. It all seems a little too "automated" for my liking..
I'd like to have 360° passing and shooting, along with 360° movement (which still I feel is not "real" 360° but something like 16/32 different directions imo): I can't stand when the CPU arbitrarily "changes" the direction of my passes or shoots because "it thinks they're wrong".
I am the ONLY one that KNOWS if they're right or wrong, not the CPU. And even if they're wrong, CPU is NOT allowed to fix them on my behalf.

Because of this I think PES6 is still the best game of the series. Well, closely (and I mean REALLY CLOSELY) followed by PES5 (which I'm really, really re-evaluating).

If PES2011 was a PES2010 with better animations and more "free" ball handling, it would be worth the wait in my opinion.
And well, if they managed not to change the data structure so we can edit it straight away once it's released, it'd be a big big plus to it..
Who cares about the licenses when you can edit the teams yourself? ;)
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Jamezinho said:
It may not need a new engine, that was my point. With proper animations and more freedom it may feel like a different game.
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I dont believe they need a new engine....Ive tried FIFA 06 RTWC and it felt like EA made another engine for FIFA10....but they didnt...You can make wonders with the same engine...
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Niero said:
I dont believe they need a new engine....Ive tried FIFA 06 RTWC and it felt like EA made another engine for FIFA10....but they didnt...You can make wonders with the same engine...
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Exactly. I don't believe EA ever made a whole new engine for Fifa on next-gen. What the did do exceptionally well is create an animation and collision engine worthy of next-gen consoles. That gave the game a brand new feel, even though it's the same Fifa mechanic working underneath the surface.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

The gameplay engine is fine. Animations, physics, collision and improving the Master League and the way the AI play and move are key
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

*aLe said:
I'd be really happy with a little more responsiveness and reworked animations..

I especially really hate that animation when the players turn 90° quite "playing a trick" with the ball (sorry but I can't explain it better) losing a big amount of time, and those "slide-shots" overperformed anytime but when they're necessary.
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Players with low agility and low dribble accuracy trying to turn at a direction greater than 45 degrees will do it rather slowly compared to an accomplished dribbler. The animation is supposed to illustrate lack of ball control and thus it takes more time to get the ball to the front of the player. I'm not sure what you mean by slide-shots.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

tc811 said:
Players with low agility and low dribble accuracy trying to turn at a direction greater than 45 degrees will do it rather slowly compared to an accomplished dribbler. The animation is supposed to illustrate lack of ball control and thus it takes more time to get the ball to the front of the player. I'm not sure what you mean by slide-shots.
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Amen.

P.S. I'm going to try Chimps and Gerds patch tonight.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

tc811 said:
Players with low agility and low dribble accuracy trying to turn at a direction greater than 45 degrees will do it rather slowly compared to an accomplished dribbler. The animation is supposed to illustrate lack of ball control and thus it takes more time to get the ball to the front of the player. I'm not sure what you mean by slide-shots.
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As with most of Konami's post PES 6 ideas ... nice idea, poor poor execution.The animation fails outrageously I'm afraid. Yes, most defenders are less agile but that tap followed by a 45 degree turn is a joke, this only propels the arcade elements the game already suffers. John Terry is no Joe Cole on the ball but he is neither a gimp (arguable). Why they introduced such angular movement in low skilled players is bizarre, nobody in football moves like that & it's more ridiculous when you try a 90* , 180* or 360* turn. I also have to agree, the slide shots are annoying.

Also, I don't understand how some believe the rails and lack of 360* control both on and off the ball (the feeling of being leashed gameplay wise) can simply be sorted with just an abundance of animations + collision system improvement etc. Only a new engine can cater for all the necessary overhauls required to get this series out of this rut. I just get zero ambition coming from this company & this seems to be encouraged.

Seab-ass said:
The changes will have an effect on how the game controls, said Takatsuka. Until now, they’ve had a “Famicom-like” belief that good controls means fast movement. But it isn’t this simple. Particularly on the new hardware, this type of thinking will lead to players being too fast. Some players in Europe have actually complained that the game’s tempo is too fast. On the other hand, some players do seem to like faster speeds. The staff will be taking balance into account during the tuning process.
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source

I don't believe you can pump in advanced physics, collisions, AI, animation to a PS2 based engine. A modern engine for modern times.The liar, Seabass, seems to finally realise an engine overhaul is needed, way way too late ... this process should have been in their thinking around 2005 not 4/5 years into the generation. This is probably the least advanced modern sports title on offer & people are happy with this ... ?
 
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Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Aqua said:
he said it.....WENB

:HAND:
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Well , suffwan is 100 % right !! PES look so spupid when compared to other sports titles that appear now, like MLB 10. I just liked the things he said and I agree with him
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

TanMak said:
As with most of Konami's post PES 6 ideas ... nice idea, poor poor execution.The animation fails outrageously I'm afraid. Yes, most defenders are less agile but that tap followed by a 45 degree turn is a joke, this only propels the arcade elements the game already suffers. John Terry is no Joe Cole on the ball but he is neither a gimp (arguable). Why they introduced such angular movement in low skilled players is bizarre, nobody in football moves like that & it's more ridiculous when you try a 90* , 180* or 360* turn. I also have to agree, the slide shots are annoying.
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I agree with you on this. Of course players with low agility/technique should feel noticeably less agile and less responsive in possession, but the clunky 45 degree turns is not the way to do it. It makes the game look and feel dated.

Edit: Sensible soccer did this well over 15 years ago. For good players the ball would stick to their feet when changing direction but lesser players would lose the ball easily when making turns. Very simplistic, yes, but could be adapted to current gen games.

TanMak said:
Also, I don't understand how some believe the rails and lack of 360* control both on and off the ball (the feeling of being leashed gameplay wise) can simply be sorted with just an abundance of animations + collision system improvement etc. Only a new engine can cater for all the necessary overhauls required to get this series out of this rut. I just get zero ambition coming from this company & this seems to be encouraged.

I don't believe you can pump in advanced physics, collisions, AI, animation to a PS2 based engine. A modern engine for modern times.The liar, Seabass, seems to finally realise an engine overhaul is needed, way way too late ... this process should have been in their thinking around 2005 not 4/5 years into the generation. This is probably the least advanced modern sports title on offer & people are happy with this ... ?
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I'm no programmer but I don't believe EA created a new engine on next-gen consoles. I really don't see what evidence there is to support this. What they have done is furiously polished a turd. The game still has many of the old game-play hallmarks of the old PS2 Fifas, but the animations/collisions, semi-manual passing and 360 movement have given the game more playability with a hefty coating of next-gen sheen. Fifa is a much better game as a result, but it's no massive departure from the way football games have been made for the last 10 years or so.

I'm in total agreement that PES2010 is not good enough. We're now 4-5 years into the next-gen era and Seabass and Konami have been guilty of laziness and lack of foresight. However, how do we know the current PES engine is anywhere near it's full potential? I certainly don't think we've seen what it's capable of yet.

For me it's a case of Konami not investing in PES so that it can evolve on this generation of consoles. Seabass pretty much said this at the PES finals in Seville, 2008. It's not as if Seabass and his team have forgotten overnight how to make a good football game. I just don't think Konami are throwing the resources at the PES team to push the game on. Hopefully they have this year, after all the game is a cash-cow for Konami and they need to keep it that way.
 
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Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Jamezinho said:
I'm no programmer but I don't believe EA created a new engine on next-gen consoles. I really don't see what evidence there is to support this. What they have done is furiously polished a turd. The game still has many of the old game-play hallmarks of the old PS2 Fifas, but the animations/collisions, semi-manual passing and 360 movement have given the game more playability with a hefty coating of next-gen sheen. Fifa is a much better game as a result, but it's no massive departure from the way football games have been made for the last 10 years or so.
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Oh, please. Yes, it has similarities, you know why? Because they are both football games, geez. If you've been around for a few years you should have seen the transition to the newer consoles and the complete rewrite behind it. That is why FIFA continues to improve while PES struggles because of the engines limits.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Jamezinho said:
I'm no programmer but I don't believe EA created a new engine on next-gen consoles. I really don't see what evidence there is to support this. What they have done is furiously polished a turd. The game still has many of the old game-play hallmarks of the old PS2 Fifas, but the animations/collisions, semi-manual passing and 360 movement have given the game more playability with a hefty coating of next-gen sheen. Fifa is a much better game as a result, but it's no massive departure from the way football games have been made for the last 10 years or so.
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I would say compare FIFA 10 PC and FIFA 10 PS3/360, The PC version is based on a PS2 engine (polished turd, indeed) whilst he console version is clearly a new & much more dynamic engine. If the engine differences are not apparent then I don't know how else we would proceed in debating this. Infact forget FIFA for a minute and look at the leading sports franchises (NBA 2k, MLB etc) and you will see an incredible transformation in these series from their PS2 counterparts. It's just a matter of building an engine that can accept physics engines, collisions, animations etc

Jamezinho said:
I'm in total agreement that PES2010 is not good enough. We're now 4-5 years into the next-gen era and Seabass and Konami have been guilty of laziness and lack of foresight. However, how do we know the current PES engine is anywhere near it's full potential? I certainly don't think we've seen what it's capable of yet.

For me it's a case of Konami not investing in PES so that it can evolve on this generation of consoles. Seabass pretty much said this at the PES finals in Seville, 2008.
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We seem to agree that PES is at a poor level but just how they need to get where they need to be, from reading your posts it seems we see a fundamental issue in freedom, 360*, technological innovation/progression, passing system (semi-manual), animation,collision detection, AI, Refs, etc etc.

However, I believe it is impossible to implement all these things on the rail, rigid, turgid, angular PES modified PS2 engine at play currently. For example If it was as easy as simply tossing these features in the current engine, then there wouldn't be a fundamental difference between FIFA PC & FIFA PS3/360 as EA would simply have continued tweaking an old engine.

This is where and why I believe PES has to start from scratch and design something free, dynamic, 360* everything, variable passing and something that can have the newer technology embedded into it. The irony is that I think it's too late in the day for them to get it right this generation, if ever again.

Jamezinho said:
It's not as if Seabass and his team have forgotten overnight how to make a good football game. I just don't think Konami are throwing the resources at the PES team to push the game on. Hopefully they have this year, after all the game is a cash-cow for Konami and they need to keep it that way.
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This is what makes it so frustrating, how can a legendary series like Pro Evolution Soccer turn into such shambles? Maybe the PS2 was just their time and times have markedly changed indeed, the game designer should be refreshed as the current iteration is appalling. Something drastic has to occur in this game for me as it is still stuck between PES 5/6 and something buggy, robotic, unfinished and unpalatable - it's just not a simulation of Football. I honestly believe PES productions just don't have the capacity to make it in this generation and inevitably in the next ... unless feedback is as ambitious as fans want the game to become.

PES 3/4/5/6 + PS2/PC = :WORSHIP:
PES 08/09/10 + PS3/360 = :RANT:

It just doesn't compute if they are as talented as some believe.

cheers
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

TanMak said:
I would say compare FIFA 10 PC and FIFA 10 PS3/360, The PC version is based on a PS2 engine (polished turd, indeed) whilst he console version is clearly a new & much more dynamic engine. If the engine differences are not apparent then I don't know how else we would proceed in debating this. Infact forget FIFA for a minute and look at the leading sports franchises (NBA 2k, MLB etc) and you will see an incredible transformation in these series from their PS2 counterparts. It's just a matter of building an engine that can accept physics engines, collisions, animations etc



We seem to agree that PES is at a poor level but just how they need to get where they need to be, from reading your posts it seems we see a fundamental issue in freedom, 360*, technological innovation/progression, passing system (semi-manual), animation,collision detection, AI, Refs, etc etc.

However, I believe it is impossible to implement all these things on the rail, rigid, turgid, angular PES modified PS2 engine at play currently. For example If it was as easy as simply tossing these features in the current engine, then there wouldn't be a fundamental difference between FIFA PC & FIFA PS3/360 as EA would simply have continued tweaking an old engine.

This is where and why I believe PES has to start from scratch and design something free, dynamic, 360* everything, variable passing and something that can have the newer technology embedded into it. The irony is that I think it's too late in the day for them to get it right this generation, if ever again.



This is what makes it so frustrating, how can a legendary series like Pro Evolution Soccer turn into such shambles? Maybe the PS2 was just their time and times have markedly changed indeed, the game designer should be refreshed as the current iteration is appalling. Something drastic has to occur in this game for me as it is still stuck between PES 5/6 and something buggy, robotic, unfinished and unpalatable - it's just not a simulation of Football. I honestly believe PES productions just don't have the capacity to make it in this generation and inevitably in the next ... unless feedback is as ambitious as fans want the game to become.

PES 3/4/5/6 + PS2/PC = :WORSHIP:
PES 08/09/10 + PS3/360 = :RANT:

It just doesn't compute if they are as talented as some believe.

cheers
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You're making it sound like PES 2010 is BAD.
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Lami said:
You're making it sound like PES 2010 is BAD.
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I really do think it is just a tweaked PES 08 which was an insult & if it just keeps getting tweaked instead of being reworked then it'll be dead in the water. It is not so much the evolution that is the problem but that it is evolving from a lemon.

We need a new start to build on marrying the series' past glory and modern technology.

That's really just my vien bursting gripe

cheers
 
Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

In my opinion, and i'm sure quite a few others, if PES 2011 is similar to 2010 in gameplay aspects, but a new animation system is implemented then i'd be very happy.
 
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