PES 2011 Discussion thread

[zeemeister]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Couldn't care less about all the PR tbh. I just want October to come and play the game for myself. Every time I read Seabass' comments he gets my hopes up high only in the end to be semi-disappointed.

Best thing was back in the day when I read or heard nothing on the game and all I did was play PES/WE until the new one came out. Buy it, play it, hate it for the first week, then adapt to it and fall in love with it.

Lami you are 100% right. I came onto the site to see what's happening and post my ML story. I cant believe we're talking PES2011 already, there's still so much joy to be had with PES2010

 

[katata]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Chimps I would love to try your option file but could it converted to a pc????????????
thanks

 

[Rooney10]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

pes is down in the scraps this time. one can think it can only get better. but that is no reason to trust all these comments and opinions in the media. seabass has done this far too many times. we've had terrible 'improvements' in the last 3 years.

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Personally I believe EVERYTHING Komami say about PES; why would they lie?

 

[Audiard]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

well if you think that video was lame - check this out - in a word pathetic by the bhatti boyz - http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/time-to-right-the-wrongs/

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

I would love for everyone's feedback on this thread on my game play changes.

I honestly think it goes some way towards making the game a lot more realistic and adds a lot to its difficulty and balance.

All games should be more competitive, but if you want a challange pick any of the smaller club teams and play against a better team or with a national team against brazil or England or one of the other big teams

Its not the right file. A new one will be posted up soon for people to try.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Chimps I would love to try your option file but could it converted to a pc????????????
thanks

Unfortunately not. The PS3 option file is encrypted and no as yet has been able to get past it, to edit the file on a pc

The file that was linked on this thread isn't quite right

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

well if you think that video was lame - check this out - in a word pathetic by the bhatti boyz - http://winningelevenblog.com/blog/time-to-right-the-wrongs/

I thought the purpose of the article was to apologise for false hype and then he says this:

PES 2011 is a few years in the making

Heard this before. PES2009 was apparently two years in the making as was PES2010.

 

[Audiard]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho PRECISELY my point - more guff from the PES "messiah"

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

I don't understand all his bs about signing up to evo-web under a different username with the site owners blessing?

 

[Audiard]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

RE: PES & its development - five years on from what was arguably the peak of PES there has simply been no substantial development and no willingness to reflect the ambition of the fanbase - something I cannot abide.

 

[Blublub]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho PRECISELY my point - more guff from the PES "messiah"

WTF, is this guy bipolar or something?

 

[BillyBoy]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

I don't understand all his bs about signing up to evo-web under a different username with the site owners blessing?

So it was him speaking on the Ubisoft thread! Didn't expect that to be honest.

 

[McCarthy10]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

I myself have faith in Konami about PES 2011, just that feeling i have, i dont know why i just think they'll pull it off!

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Don't believe a word of it , quite frankly they have lost all credibility after all the lies spewed over the last few years ... why would this year be any different?

IMO PES 2010 was decent man. They have gone back to square one with a feash approac for the game and made it a sim rather than the piece of shit PES 2008 and 2009 was. It's seems they are very much back on track, the errors in PES are because this project they have now is clearly in a almost 'beta' like stage with the tackling, animations and collsion system very, VERY basic and NOTHING like how PES 2009 was

It's clear a new base point to build PES from. ALL The problems with PES 2010 come from the taclking/collision system and animations. Konami aren't stupid and they obviously will work on those parts of the game and it's clear the game will improve ten fold with it.

I think this is what i would say, but thats just me.

There are just too many problems to sort out in a year for this 'big shake up' to revolutionize the game. A new engine, improved AI, animation & collision systems etc etc are not things I believe can be sorted in a year.

PES 2010 reminds me of FIFA 07/08 on the Xbox 360, the basis of a great game which is clearly work in progress, rather than PES 2008 and 2009 which were glossed finished Ps2 games that were a peice of shit to play.

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

eh ... Who mentioned FIFA ??

1. Animations, motion, collisions etc compliment game play, they create dynamism in the game instead of generic rigid & turgid player movement that are more suited to a early 90s karate game ... I simply don't know how this isn't obvious

It's just a game, i don't care that much about animations, FIFA 10 animations look great but after hours of scoring the same god dam goals over and over again, you couldn't care less about them.

In FIFA 10, animations are sick as anything but are put toghether in a very arcadey style. Try a Linoel Messi run past 3-4 on fifa without using the 'trick stick' by using those freestyle stilla nd see how far you get. I've scored goals where i have beaten 3-4 players but unlike in PES where it recreates a mazing run you expect from Messi/Kaka, it includes Rainbow flicks and other rather ridiculous stuff.

For me PES get's the basics spot on, it's just the advanced parts which are horribly basic. FIFA animations are nice but the game is a disaster!

2. PES defensive AI is very lousy & very very unrealistic ...

All that needs to be sorted out is the defensive midfielder issue where the defence line backs off and holds a line and gives you too much space for long range shots. Programing the defence to elect one player to close the man down while the rest hold a line seems logical but could come with a few bugs. There was also the 5 players on one issue which has been sorted out with the 1.03 update

The AI is PES 2010 is fantastic on the whole, Players actually work as a team unlikein FIFA 10 where they do next to nothing. I like how on PES there isan't a golden tactic which beats every team, unlike on fifa 10 where you simply put 100 pressue and 100 passing and speed then WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I think differ in opinion to you because i'm not a gamer at all and only play football games. I love football and i look for football aspects in my games rather than just slick animations and fluid gameplay. FIFA is proberly better for gamers but i'm not sure since even my little brother who lives for games i'm unsure if all he care about is animations.

 

[DerleiPT]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

You want to believe it yourself that pes 10 is more than pes2009,5 crap with reduced maneuverability of players . Tactic ?whatever, who cares about tactic if this game is still very little fun to play.

Pes10 better than Fifa10 online/1vs1 ? look at number of players in online.Servers(xbox360/ps3) in pes10 are almost empty when we compare to Fifa servers- there is so many peoples. Stop talk only about animation because overall Fifa10 gameplay 1vs1/online is MILES better than your biggerst love-pes2010 .playing in your pes2010 is masochism for me and every 99% my friends.Even if Fifa10 is FAAAAR from great game with big bugs in MM , it still miles better than another never ending story -pes10
Sorry but you tring to say everywhere pes2010 is great game what is big joke for 90% peoples i think.

Please Seebas , nomore lies and release half of your team is only appropriate way.

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

You want to believe it yourself that pes 10 is more than pes2009,5 crap with reduced maneuverability of players . Tactic ?whatever, who cares about tactic if this game is still very little fun to play.

Stopped reading there, can't take anything you say seriously in terms of gameplay since it's clear you only care about animations. I guess you only care about fluidity. Well thats fine, just don't give that crap calling the game a simulation when it's clearly built for casual players who don't care about realsim.

Here is FIFA 10 a senior producer of FIFA 10 talking about the realism in the gameplay

Hey,

Interesting post. This is the challenge we have on the game team. You and I want to make a more simulation, slower game where passes are a bit harder to pull off, openings and chances are harder and more rewarding to create, you are forced to use the clearance button more, creating more emotion in defending... but most people out there want to play a game that is, in terms of pace and difficulty, similar to FIFA10... how can we satisfy both? Well we have a few ideas and hopefully with FIFA11 we can try and bridge that divide a little.

Thanks,

PS. Up the Dons

See, even he admits that FIFA 10 is not a simulation and is built for casual players with very fluid gameplay. To a gamers eyes i can see why people prefer FIFA to PES, it's faster, more responsive and has slick skills etc... if your a casual fan or just play for fun you won't notice the glaring defensive and general AI errors!

I have no problem with people saying FIFA is better bacause it's more responsive, faster and more fluid but don't give me this crap that it's a simulation and it's a realsitic game in any shape or form!

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Both games have their pros and cons and none is perfect, but PES/WE always does the basics right for me to keep going, excluding PES 2008. And for me, PES 2010 is the best of the series as it does a lot of things right combined with latest-gen graphics. Its missing a few things here and there so hopefully they include them in 2011 and I'm sold.

Audiard, remember this is a PES/WE thread, not the WENB bashing thread. Don't want to see you stirring up anything. If they were the makers of the game then I understand, but they're not. Talk about Konami, Seabass, PES/WE. No WENB, and no winding up.

And remember guys, NO FLAMING. Debate all you want, but keep it clean and always remember different people have different tastes.

Its not the right file. A new one will be posted up soon for people to try.

Shouldn't bother with the one I have then?

 

[TanMak]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

... ...

OK, firstly I'm not interested in a FIFA v PES simulation debate, I was simply replying to someone who assumed I was making a comparison.

the errors in PES are because this project they have now is clearly in a almost 'beta' like stage with the tackling, animations and collsion system very

Yes, I've said before that PES 2010 is very much a beta and should never have been declared gold - one of the reasons I believe it is at dire dire state. Also you keep referring to my insisting on animations as something only casual fans want, that hold no water at all. The more realistic the animations, collisions, motions, engine is the better and more realistic the game will be.

You can't have Xavi taking 2 or 3 touches to execute a pass or lose position simply doing a 180 turn etc. These things I mention have a direct role to how the game plays as control of the player becomes radiant, precise & contextual. PES clearly has no consideration for an overall harmony/synergy for how a player moves/reacts to how a ball is struck etc.

There are tons of different ways to take a shot/pass depending on circumstances, if your animations, collisions, engine allow a dynamic way in order to do it instead of 5 generic shot/pass types then why would you fight this? The game has too few animations that do not support contextual situations in which a shot/pass can be taken. This makes it very flat and makes the rails all the more obvious.

An Engine overhaul is the true way to achieve all this. Even your boy Seabass is ONLY now realising his old engine is passed it (read here)

It's clear a new base point to build PES from. ALL The problems with PES 2010 come from the taclking/collision system and animations. Konami aren't stupid and they obviously will work on those parts of the game and it's clear the game will improve ten fold with it.

Sorry it's not clear at all for me, if anything it seems like Konami are becoming worse & are very stupid. It's inexcusable to me how refs and goalkeepers are broken after 3 years (disingenuous how they claim to listen to the fans yet not one comment on refs/pens/GKs being toilet), it's unreal how turgid & rigid the players move, how super fast the game plays and how direct the passing is as well as the scripted nature of the engine as a whole.

PES 2010 reminds me of FIFA 07/08 on the Xbox 360, the basis of a great game which is clearly work in progress, rather than PES 2008 and 2009 which were glossed finished Ps2 games that were a peice of shit to play.

I'm glad you agree PES 08/09 were insults ... Ok, just a small comparison between PES 09 & 10 - firstly I think PES 10 is more broken and is just as rubbish as the other next-gen two.

PES 09 had diabolical defensive AI (full backs were drifters etc) & crap GKs (tons of rebounded goals). Now PES 10 also has diabolical defending (yes fullbacks don't drift but defensive line as a whole back off stupendously), GKs are worse, Refs are broken. PES 2010 is basically style over substance. There are some fundamental game breaking issues at play.

The AI is PES 2010 is fantastic on the whole, Players actually work as a team unlikein FIFA 10 where they do next to nothing. I like how on PES there isan't a golden tactic which beats every team, unlike on fifa 10 where you simply put 100 pressue and 100 passing and speed then WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

I'll keep this directed on PES.

PES AI is so bad & imbalanced, the higher the difficulty the more mundane things become ... suddenly Upson can keep up and outpace a Bellamy, suddenly Denilson can out muscle Drogba etc.

The AI controlling Bolton suddenly plays a great passing game, mind you all in their own half even If a goal down with minutes left. There's no reason for the game to suddenly become super powered and resort to AI cheating, this isn't the 90s with those cheap boss fights in Japanese games.

I think differ in opinion to you because i'm not a gamer at all and only play football games. I love football and i look for football aspects in my games rather than just slick animations and fluid gameplay. FIFA is proberly better for gamers but i'm not sure since even my little brother who lives for games i'm unsure if all he care about is animations

lol I love how suddenly you qualify your opinion by propelling yourself as a footy whizz while I'm just a glory hunter gamer who wants silky scissor kicks, overheads etc. Mate I know my football too and PES just isn't it anymore.

 

[Chimps-with-quiffs]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Both games have their pros and cons and none is perfect, but PES/WE always does the basics right for me to keep going, excluding PES 2008. And for me, PES 2010 is the best of the series as it does a lot of things right combined with latest-gen graphics. Its missing a few things here and there so hopefully they include them in 2011 and I'm sold.

Audiard, remember this is a PES/WE thread, not the WENB bashing thread. Don't want to see you stirring up anything. If they were the makers of the game then I understand, but they're not. Talk about Konami, Seabass, PES/WE. No WENB, and no winding up.

And remember guys, NO FLAMING. Debate all you want, but keep it clean and always remember different people have different tastes.


Shouldn't bother with the one I have then?

From the feedback we have had, it looks like changing the default attacking stance on teams has made it play a bit too fast.

This is going to get corrected by each team being set back to default, but with my edited stats and will either be sent out soon for feedback or we will wait for entire file to be finished and then released

Anyone who is concerned about the fluidity of the game should try it as this is one of the easiest things to sort out. Hopefully anyone who tries the edited gameplay file that will be finished soon, will feel its a much better game with more depth and a more balanced difficulty.

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

Can't wait to get my hands on that file then

 

[gerd]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

A question to the mods.
Can't we have a thread exclusively about the news on PES 2011 and another thread to discuss the news.
I'm not gonna read all the "discussions" for the third year in a row...i just want to know if there is any news. Please.

 

[Lami]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours thread

A question to the mods.
Can't we have a thread exclusively about the news on PES 2011 and another thread to discuss the news.
I'm not gonna read all the "discussions" for the third year in a row...i just want to know if there is any news. Please.

Done.

 

[gerd]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Thanks, you don't know what this means to lots of people.

 

[klashman69]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

lol I love how suddenly you qualify your opinion by propelling yourself as a footy whizz while I'm just a glory hunter gamer who wants silky scissor kicks, overheads etc. Mate I know my football too and PES just isn't it anymore.

Please don't think that i'm trying to make you sound like I’m bigger than your or trying to make you seem like your wrong. You supported me with my kits and anyone who does that is a friend lol> But If PES 2010 is shit in your opinion, thats fine. I’m just sharing my opinions with you on where the game needs to improve and I just strongly believe that PES doesn't need to be started again from scratch and instead just need a PS3 ready animation system (euphoria engine etc..).

Yes, I've said before that PES 2010 is very much a beta and should never have been declared gold - one of the reasons I believe it is at dire dire state. Also you keep referring to my insisting on animations as something only casual fans want, that hold no water at all. The more realistic the animations, collisions, motions, engine is the better and more realistic the game will be.

You can't have Xavi taking 2 or 3 touches to execute a pass or lose position simply doing a 180 turn etc. These things I mention have a direct role to how the game plays as control of the player becomes radiant, precise & contextual. PES clearly has no consideration for an overall harmony/synergy for how a player moves/reacts to how a ball is struck etc.

Like i said before and i will say again, it's just one part of the game. I didn't say that only casual fans want nice animations because i know PES needs them desperately to sort out all it's faults and since i play FIFA as well i feel they add a LOT to the game, but it's simply not the B all and End all like it is to gamers. This is what i meant.

My point was that football fans just want a good game the represents football, casual fans or gamers just look for a fun fluid game and couldn't care less about still like tactics, player individuality and different styles of football teams play.

The game doesn’t have great animations but where i'm different to you i just simply accept it and get on with it where as you see it as a vital necessity for the game. The game is never going to be perfect but yet it still plays like football.

I would say the animations are a C- grade rather than the F grade that you seem to describe it as. It's not completely broken. I have actually never had any problems controlling the ball at all with Xavi or any players with high technique, i find that simply thinking ahead and timing your first touches, holding the R2 button with close control and timing passes with Xavi is more satisfying than in any game i have played including the old PES games. I can't see where your coming from really in regarding that players are hard to control because of the animations, the IK technology (synergy between ball etc..) is actually in the game, but again it's really basic and it appears weird rather than organic.

There are tons of different ways to take a shot/pass depending on circumstances, if your animations, collisions, engine allow a dynamic way in order to do it instead of 5 generic shot/pass types then why would you fight this? The game has too few animations that do not support contextual situations in which a shot/pass can be taken. This makes it very flat and makes the rails all the more obvious.

An Engine overhaul is the true way to achieve all this. Even your boy Seabass is ONLY now realising his old engine is passed it (read here)

There are far too few animations for collisions/talcking. This for me causes the main problems with the game with lack of penalties and blatant fouls being unpunished. Take the Dive button for instance, it's useless in the game since unlike in PES 2008 and 2009 where there were set instances where a dive would work, they have all been taken out and it's clear they have a completely new system.
But when it comes to passing and shooting there is definitely enough there, they just need to be more fluid. I don't have problems with not being able to score from certain angles or make passes because the animations are restricting me at all.

It pisses me off like it does you that it's taken until after PES 2009 for Seabass to finally accept he needs to upgrade his game so it can use new technology more suitable for the Xbox 360 etc... Seabass should’ve thought of this way back in 2005 and should have prepared a game like PES 2010 to have been PES 6 on the Xbox 360 or PES 2008 even! Still a big feeling the collision system is that poor because they are clearly working on a completely new system which can be adapted into the game for PES 2011.

 

[TheRealEssienIsGod]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

Let's make one thing clear... if PES 2010 had next generation animations and physics NO ONE would be complaining about it... the gameplay is good, yes maybe not AS good as the PS2 versions but it's still good and the GAMEPLAY in my eyes is more enjoyable and realistic then FIFA will ever be...


(That's unless they add some individuality to the game (FIFA) )

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

I don't think the animations in PES2010 are that bad. I still see the odd flick or touch that makes me smile like PES used to. It's more a case of:

a. The transition or linkage between animations is not good enough, which gives the game a disjointed and clunky appearance, and....

b. not enough variety of animations and signature kicking/running styles.

I hope Konami can improve in both of these areas and still improve the response times, which were too slow in PES2010 for no apparent reason. Fifa is a little unresponsive because of the elaborate animation engine, so I hope Konami don't fall into the same trap. PES has always been about responsiveness and instinctive football.

Collision detection is another area that needs massive improvement, both interaction between players and interaction with the ball. Players still morph into each other and take invisible touches of the ball.

Animations aside, I can get enough enjoyment from PES2010 because I think, apart from the obvious flaws, the underlying game is decent. But it is critical that Konami gets the animations right this year, and deliver a flowing, organic football experience. PES is lagging behind every other 'next-gen' sports game in a technical sense, and Konami should feel a little embarrassed with their offerings in recent years.

My hope is that the mo-cap sessions that were highly publicised last year were intended for PES2011, because there is precious little evidence of it in PES2010.

Konami must deliver a decent gameplay video as early as possible this year to put all our minds at rest.

 

[TanMak]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

No problem klashman ... we can disagree without being disagreeable mate, I'm just really tired of the lies and the lack of improvement in the game, how they say they listen to the fans but won't even acknowledge the tons of complaints towards refs/GKs/response etc . I find it very insulting how unfinished the game is & has been for 3 years.

I just feel everything ... animations, AI, collisions, a 360 degree fully free engine need to be married in order for us to see a true next-gen PES that carries the PS2 era into available tech. Doing one of these halfway just won't cut it & doing all of these is not a 1 year job I believe. They need to show ambition & vision for a change.

Unless the engine fully eradicates the restrictions, (i.e. PC moving you players & the rigidity etc) it's just going to remain a game in a quagmire.

Cheers

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES 2011 News & Rumours Discussion thread

No problem klashman ... we can disagree without being disagreeable mate, I'm just really tired of the lies and the lack of improvement in the game, how they say they listen to the fans but won't even acknowledge the tons of complaints towards refs/GKs/response etc . I find it very insulting how unfinished the game is & has been for 3 years.

I just feel everything ... animations, AI, collisions, a 360 degree fully free engine need to be married in order for us to see a true next-gen PES that carries the PS2 era into available tech. Doing one of these halfway just won't cut it & doing all of these is not a 1 year job I believe. They need to show ambition & vision for a change.

Unless the engine fully eradicates the restrictions, (i.e. PC moving you players & the rigidity etc) it's just going to remain a game in a quagmire.

Cheers

I think we can all agree on that.