PES 2011 Discussion thread

Is the definition of "cheap" a bit different amidst the Pro Evo community?

Fingers crossed this is a worthwhile read for some folk.

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I was big into my fighting games and will be again when a new update hits Street Fighter. The thing is for years it's been plagued by a vocal minority, who genuinely dont understand how the game works and mistakenly label several tricks and techniques "cheap" or "exploits".

The most common one is "tick-throwing", where you do a light hit on a blocking opponent and throw them, which was powerful 20 years ago in SF2, but has been toned down for almost 15 years now and in Street Fighter IV it is negated by pressing down-back +LP+LK. You still have to time this, but that's part of the skill aspect.

Ryu, Ken, Akuma and Sagat are often called cheap, so are command grab characters, with the exception of Sagat in SFIV who the developers admit was too powerful :SHOCK: these characters are actually well rounded, they don't excel in any area but can "cover the bases".

Unfortunately sometimes the developers listen to the wrong voice sometimes, and on occassion un-needed changes are made to characters, my favourite was hit by one of these (Gen, my avatar)because of a combo that could be done with turbo pads, which, quite rightly so turbo use is frowned on in fighting games. However the knock on effect was ruining other areas of his game-play and making him extremely weak now. To an extent that it's a chore to play as him. :CRY:

Are there actual overpowered tactics/tricks in PES like cutbacks or is the "cheapness" here more based around the fact that it's pretty boring to play against big teams all the time? AC Milan becoming "our" version of Ryu if you would :P

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To put it in perspective, the "Evo Web" equivalent of the fighting games community does not subscribe to any notion of "cheapness" in those kind of games. Everything has a counter in game.

Presumably it's a bit different in PES being how things are stat based, and "cheating" is equated to just having no sense of adventure, instead of exploiting the game engine itself.
 
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I'm starting to get a little disappointed with the defensive AI and keepers. I'm only a few weeks into the game, yet i've seen a lot of nonsense. Maybe it's just a Div 2 thing (although i am also playing exhibition matches and Eredivisie ML), but it reinforces my view, that while i believe this is the best "next -gen" PES, it is not the best PES, which i still reserve for its PS2 heyday.
 
Hi Prof,
Are you talking about the opponents AI? Or the AI of your own defenders?
I find the defending very, very difficult...the player switching is my main gripe.
I haven't noticed anything wrong with the GK's however...it happens that they make mistakes, but they are seldom blatant mistakes...

Han, that is a cheap remark. I have a legal version and (traditionally) Konami's manual is far from complete.
There used to be a guide made by Piggyback or something similarly named. I had one for the first next gen versions...don't know if there is one for PES 2011. This would help me a lot too.
 
Hey gerd. I'd say both mine and the com's AI. I've seen the ball literally trickle past a keeper into the net, as he does a silly little dive (and still bizarrely misses it). I've seen a few own goals from myself and the computer, which were also bizarre in that they were completely aviodable, yet the AI decides to slam the ball into the net.

Also yes, player switching is driving me nuts at times. At one point i had it flicking ultra fast between two players chasing a ball. Aaarggh. I think the switching and defence will be the flaw that this PES is remembered for.
 
gerd said:
Hi Prof,
Are you talking about the opponents AI? Or the AI of your own defenders?
I find the defending very, very difficult...the player switching is my main gripe.
I haven't noticed anything wrong with the GK's however...it happens that they make mistakes, but they are seldom blatant mistakes...

Han, that is a cheap remark. I have a legal version and (traditionally) Konami's manual is far from complete.
There used to be a guide made by Piggyback or something similarly named. I had one for the first next gen versions...don't know if there is one for PES 2011. This would help me a lot too.
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You can alter the player switching in the option mode in the game or before the game. To manual. I haven't tried this yet though.


Lets tell it like it is

a 90 striker

With good current stamina and a gree/yellow/red bar. 9 out of 10 shots you aim in the right place with the right timing and power will hit the target.

6 out of those 10 will go past the keeper

Now your average 50-60 striker that you start off with

With good current stamina and a green/yellow,red bar. 6 out of 10 shots you you aim in the right place with the right timing and power will hit the target.

2-3 will hit the back of the net

So for me when you have the finishing down and you can make those perfect attempts atleast 1/3 of the time. Then it all comes down to supplication. So you need to gain possession. You need a keane/viera/Gatusso. You also need a xavi/scholes/fabregas to supply the ball. Thats how i see it. Strikers are really secondary, its all about the person using them. Others opinions may differ. But i think i've gotten the jist of it. You may hit 3 great shots in 1 half. For me the reasons i've given are why anyone can beat anyone else without having ronaldo villa torres drogba up front.
 
how do you guys defend free kicks!. everytime the opponent gets free kick, they score.. its really frustrating since i have west ham as my team, somehow manage to score against chelsea, manu and to hang on i need to be sure not to give any free kick away. i defend well on open play and can resist any team but these freekicks are a nightmare.
lost FA cup semifinal to liverpool last night in dying moments courtesy freekick, after actually dominating.

plz someone help. i have to qualify for europe!!
 
positioning your keeper manually is the only way I can figure it...

I restarted many games when the fucking AI scores like these (I once conceded a hat trick from the same area from these cheating AI :LOL: how could anyone not pissed from that), it's way worse than these so called online cunts :LOL:
 
napo_rz said:
positioning your keeper manually is the only way I can figure it...

I restarted many games when the fucking AI scores like these (I once conceded a hat trick from the same area from these cheating AI :LOL: how could anyone not pissed from that), it's way worse than these so called online cunts :LOL:
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But restarting the game kills the fun.. and the keeper always happens to see it late... there must be some way i believe..anyone?
 
Having a defender covering the near side? I'll try positioning the keeper manually too, never thought of that...

To be honest I don't have that problem, AI scores 1 out of 10 FKs against me, most of the time they just miss the target, while I myself score 1 out of 4 or so.
 
A little something i like to do against players when they put a guy on the line is to make the kick in direct, then the player goes back to his original position and i can aim for goal. Just a tip
 
Have to say I called this from the demo. I remember bleating about it in here and how it needed fixing. The CPU would score almost every free kick with consummate ease even in the Copa match!
 
If Konami got rid of that ****** animation where the defender hits the pole and takes 5 seconds to recover, defending the near post would be at least a bit easier.
 
vivek1412 said:
But restarting the game kills the fun.. and the keeper always happens to see it late... there must be some way i believe..anyone?
Click to expand...

You can position a defender and / or the keeper manually..
It helps

Haven't conceded many.. My opponents didn't have many free kicks because the defending system not allows it, unless you keep doing sliding tackles.
 
sincover said:
Do you mean auto sliding? there is no auto clearance option. Also the auto sliding is bugged. Your defenders will still slide to block a shot in the box (which can still lead to penalties).
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Yes, I guess I mixed it up with autosliding ... sorry. To be honest, I haven't played that many games in ML or exhibition mode, I'm in BAL at the moment, where such management options are not available.

I saw those auto-options and turned them all off (except offside traps) for a couple of games and I can't remember seeing any weird auto-behaviour ...
 
I'll tell you something that slightly pisses me off, real Konami laziness - little graphical things that would have taken no time at all to get right, but presumably no one could be bothered.

I'm a bit of a sad case about name and number fonts on the backs of shirts - I know a lot of people don't care but I like them to be right. Half the licensed teams in the game have perfect shirt names/numbers, and the other half just have the default font. Why? If you've got the license and you've done a nice design on the kit, why not bloody get this right? There's not even any logic to it - "small" clubs like FC Copenhagen and Heracles Almelo have their unique font, but huge teams like Inter don't. It can't just be that the game goes gold too early to get this right, because Valencia are using the same font as last year in real life (and they'd have known this back in June/July), but in PES they still don't have it - besides, the DLC put some of this right (e.g. Atletico Madrid went from default names/numbers to the right ones). There's some really daft stuff here - Villarreal have the right font but it's in the wrong colour. What's the bloody problem?

Another thing is the Europa League - it's beautifully presented, with the intro and the graphics and the music and the colour scheme. So why is all the lettering in that ugly white font rather than the actual Europa League typeface? It looks horrible. They got it right on the Champions League, why not this?

Sure, these are stupid little niggles and not as important as stuff like player switching, horrible collision detection, CPU scoring 99% of free kicks while your goalie dives under them like a twat, but those are in-game things that would require work on the actual code. This is just cosmetic stuff which could be sorted out in half an hour.
 
Just played a complete asshat who lagged the game on purpose and got the win. He was leading 1-0 on ML (Castolo is the only remotely decent player I have), I ended up losing 3-0 thanks to this d***khead
 
I am really pissed off due to the fact that cpu scores every direct free kick. dani alves twice, ronaldinho, a black guy playing for twente and many more I cant remember. this is really dragging me down.
 
There is something that realy bugs me about this game, I first noticed in the week or so spell that I hamered the 2010 demo and sadly its made its way into 2011. It is way too easy to get dispossessed. I played the 2010 demo after about a year of PES5 and this jumped out at me, its like there is a magnet attached to the player that does not have the ball and they can walk next to you and attract the ball to their foot. In the last gen pes if you wanted the ball you had to go shoulder to shoulder, fight and push your way ahead and nick it or time a stab of the X button to stick a foot in and poke it away. Now you just run next to the player in possession turn a little bit into them and voila you got the ball! It just does not eel as if theres any desire in your player to keep the ball and its pretty crap IMO. Go back and try PES 5 or 6 then play the new games, this hits you like a smack in the face.

Next year Seabass needs to take away the 'hold down X' auto tackle and implement his new defensive system properly.

Also I would like some off the ball control of my back line. I am sick of seeing the back 4 in a nice line retreating backwards when a cf is running at them, it gives masses of space unnecessarily. When I first read about this new defensive mechanism in the game I thought this is what it did, you hold X and press back to retreat your back line or hold X and press to wards the ball to advance it, you could then switch to a defender and try to tackle.
 
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Ernestito said:
I am really pissed off due to the fact that cpu scores every direct free kick. dani alves twice, ronaldinho, a black guy playing for twente and many more I cant remember. this is really dragging me down.
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i play on top player and ki hasnt scored a single freekick against me, put a player on the line to help the goalkeeper, problem solved
 
ilfenomeno said:
i play on top player and ki hasnt scored a single freekick against me, put a player on the line to help the goalkeeper, problem solved
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You're lucky - I'm on Top Player and the cpu has scored eleven direct free kicks against me this season (it's only March). How many direct free kicks do a team usually concede from, in the course of a whole season? Nowhere near that many.

Putting a player on the line doesn't solve the problem, by the way. It just leads to the embarrassing scene of that player (who you're no longer controlling) taking two steps sideways to get out of the way as soon as the kick is taken, and then turning round to watch it sail in. He gets in the goalkeeper's way, too.
 
Pere Ubu said:
You're lucky - I'm on Top Player and the cpu has scored eleven direct free kicks against me this season (it's only March). How many direct free kicks do a team usually concede from, in the course of a whole season? Nowhere near that many.

Putting a player on the line doesn't solve the problem, by the way. It just leads to the embarrassing scene of that player (who you're no longer controlling) taking two steps sideways to get out of the way as soon as the kick is taken, and then turning round to watch it sail in. He gets in the goalkeeper's way, too.
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exactly! I tried this but the player tackled instead of kicking or heading the ball away.
 
I touched the free kick subject when the game was just released. Right now, set-pieces are just a cheap and scripted method for the AI to get goals against you. Sometimes you can't even prevent conceding the free kick or corner in the first place, and this has been in PES for ages now.
 
Ern Dog said:
There is something that realy bugs me about this game, I first noticed in the week or so spell that I hamered the 2010 demo and sadly its made its way into 2011. It is way too easy to get dispossessed. I played the 2010 demo after about a year of PES5 and this jumped out at me, its like there is a magnet attached to the player that does not have the ball and they can walk next to you and attract the ball to their foot. In the last gen pes if you wanted the ball you had to go shoulder to shoulder, fight and push your way ahead and nick it or time a stab of the X button to stick a foot in and poke it away. Now you just run next to the player in possession turn a little bit into them and voila you got the ball! It just does not eel as if theres any desire in your player to keep the ball and its pretty crap IMO. Go back and try PES 5 or 6 then play the new games, this hits you like a smack in the face.
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It needs work, It's like the new system is inconsistent. Sometimes it works, sometimes tackling in some games feels a bit easy! With the challenged being the fucked player switching :CONFUSE: but I'm not sure if PES6 especially is a good model to follow.

PES 5 was the best in tackling but it also had that huge flaw when players for some fucked up reason would SPEED UP as soon as you jostled with them? Never understood that! Still don't now!
 
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