PES 2011 Discussion thread
- Thread starter NightWish
- Start date
Scutch
Futsal Master
What controls are you using for this, mate?
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
Been watching the euro-qualification-games lately, like for example Germany against Turkey, and then against Khasachstan and some others like Russia against Ireland and so on and so forth. I watched first to enjoy these games but also with one eye to see if PES 2011 nailed the game and if not what is missing, here are my results:
+ Players looked eerily similar, camera was similar, pitch-size was similar...
+ Goalkeepers were similar! Some of them parried just as much as in the game and made similar mistakes in chaotic situations...
+ One-touch-control and dribbling looked eerily similar except for some negative aspects that I will report a bit later.
+ Ballphysics seemed to be similar.
+ Gamespeed and pace at speed 0 seemed to be similar.
In many aspects PES 2011 is quite near to nail the real thing, but some important aspects were not captured very well:
- The lighting at night (at day it's very good though) is horrible in PES 2011 compared to the real thing, in the game everything looks rather dull and the colours seem wrong.
- The nets are unsurprisingly different!
- Animation and dribbling is much more free, varied and espescially easy... the player gets the ball and he easily plays with it to make room, to get time, even those players from weak teams like Aserbaidschan or Khasakstan do it with ease and fun. In the game Konami makes it hard for players from weak teams to play with the ball, while the players from the top-teams have advantages but even them are not as free and capable as in real-life.
This is the most important aspect and why I'm taking my time to explain it: In real life weaker teams aren't worse at dribbling or in animation or ability to keep possession against a single defender, what differentiates better teams from the weak teams is something different:
First and foremost oversight/intelligence/communication. Good teams have a good sense for situations, they have good awareness of where the opponents are and where the own teammembers are, they have a good communication and the players help each other out...
Second is the precision of their passing, espescially quick short passing, like for example in a moving triangle, is better and more precise in good teams or the last pass, cross before making a goal is usually the area where weak teams regularly fail much more than good teams... and then the shooting on the goal is another area where precision-differences come up espescially when the shooter doesn't have enough room, time or in chaotic situations... there good teams with exceptional goalgetters have a big advantage...
The last but not least point of difference is the stamina, good teams have better stamina and concentration over 90 minutes or more, while weak teams can only compete in that area for 70 minutes. The problem that comes up here for weaker teams is not only that the players don't have as much stamina as the players from the strong team (it can well be that they might have similar) the main problem is that the good team can save its stamina much better while the weak team has to run much more to defend, while the good team uses its advantage to keep possession better due to its better precision in passing, short or long, and due to its better awareness and oversight even under pressure... and can therefore play the ball around and let the weak team run behind the ball so to speak and drain the opponent of its stamina.
- The players while defending in real life are more aware than in the game, they try to actively control passing-routes and try to prevent things, they think contextively and extrapolate for example the next move of an attacker, for example they see before it happens that he will pass to that player and prepare to close the other player down quickly... In game it's all a bit static, which makes midfield-play a bit dull and repetitive.
To sum it up a bit, here are my wishes for PES 2012 in order to make the game more real:
# Lightengine should be made as good for night-games as it is in daylight.
# Nets should be made like in real.
# Animation should be much more varied and free and espescially dribbling should be much easier even for weak teams.
# Good teams should be better because of more intelligence, awareness and more precision in passing, crossing and shooting and by this be able to drain a weak team of its stamina by letting it run more to defend.
# More active intelligence and awareness for the midfield-players while defending so that midfield-play becomes interesting again.
+ Players looked eerily similar, camera was similar, pitch-size was similar...
+ Goalkeepers were similar! Some of them parried just as much as in the game and made similar mistakes in chaotic situations...
+ One-touch-control and dribbling looked eerily similar except for some negative aspects that I will report a bit later.
+ Ballphysics seemed to be similar.
+ Gamespeed and pace at speed 0 seemed to be similar.
In many aspects PES 2011 is quite near to nail the real thing, but some important aspects were not captured very well:
- The lighting at night (at day it's very good though) is horrible in PES 2011 compared to the real thing, in the game everything looks rather dull and the colours seem wrong.
- The nets are unsurprisingly different!
- Animation and dribbling is much more free, varied and espescially easy... the player gets the ball and he easily plays with it to make room, to get time, even those players from weak teams like Aserbaidschan or Khasakstan do it with ease and fun. In the game Konami makes it hard for players from weak teams to play with the ball, while the players from the top-teams have advantages but even them are not as free and capable as in real-life.
This is the most important aspect and why I'm taking my time to explain it: In real life weaker teams aren't worse at dribbling or in animation or ability to keep possession against a single defender, what differentiates better teams from the weak teams is something different:
First and foremost oversight/intelligence/communication. Good teams have a good sense for situations, they have good awareness of where the opponents are and where the own teammembers are, they have a good communication and the players help each other out...
Second is the precision of their passing, espescially quick short passing, like for example in a moving triangle, is better and more precise in good teams or the last pass, cross before making a goal is usually the area where weak teams regularly fail much more than good teams... and then the shooting on the goal is another area where precision-differences come up espescially when the shooter doesn't have enough room, time or in chaotic situations... there good teams with exceptional goalgetters have a big advantage...
The last but not least point of difference is the stamina, good teams have better stamina and concentration over 90 minutes or more, while weak teams can only compete in that area for 70 minutes. The problem that comes up here for weaker teams is not only that the players don't have as much stamina as the players from the strong team (it can well be that they might have similar) the main problem is that the good team can save its stamina much better while the weak team has to run much more to defend, while the good team uses its advantage to keep possession better due to its better precision in passing, short or long, and due to its better awareness and oversight even under pressure... and can therefore play the ball around and let the weak team run behind the ball so to speak and drain the opponent of its stamina.
- The players while defending in real life are more aware than in the game, they try to actively control passing-routes and try to prevent things, they think contextively and extrapolate for example the next move of an attacker, for example they see before it happens that he will pass to that player and prepare to close the other player down quickly... In game it's all a bit static, which makes midfield-play a bit dull and repetitive.
To sum it up a bit, here are my wishes for PES 2012 in order to make the game more real:
# Lightengine should be made as good for night-games as it is in daylight.
# Nets should be made like in real.
# Animation should be much more varied and free and espescially dribbling should be much easier even for weak teams.
# Good teams should be better because of more intelligence, awareness and more precision in passing, crossing and shooting and by this be able to drain a weak team of its stamina by letting it run more to defend.
# More active intelligence and awareness for the midfield-players while defending so that midfield-play becomes interesting again.
Hi guys, I've been away from PES since PES 6 but I'm very disappointed with FIFA 11. I have a few questions as I'm probably looking to pick this up for Xbox 360 today.
- Is it difficult on the top level against the AI? (FIFA 11 far to easy on legendary)
- Is there a limit on editing team lineups/tactic or is it like the PES of old?
- Any major gamebreaking bugs/glitches for Xbox 360 version?
- Gamespeed - is it realistic or can it be tailored to be realistic?
- How do custom chants work with PES, same as FIFA ?
- What's the goalkeeping like?
- Player/Team Individualty -can you feel it both playing with and against it?
- Finally, has anyone traded FIFA 11 in for this at GAME and how much did you get?
Answers to these would be great as I'm looking to head out in the next couple of hours, I just hope your answers sway me the right way as I miss my PES and would be nice to know there is finally a version worth coming back to ( reviews can be so biased, I just don't trust them)
Cheers
- Is it difficult on the top level against the AI? (FIFA 11 far to easy on legendary)
- Is there a limit on editing team lineups/tactic or is it like the PES of old?
- Any major gamebreaking bugs/glitches for Xbox 360 version?
- Gamespeed - is it realistic or can it be tailored to be realistic?
- How do custom chants work with PES, same as FIFA ?
- What's the goalkeeping like?
- Player/Team Individualty -can you feel it both playing with and against it?
- Finally, has anyone traded FIFA 11 in for this at GAME and how much did you get?
Answers to these would be great as I'm looking to head out in the next couple of hours, I just hope your answers sway me the right way as I miss my PES and would be nice to know there is finally a version worth coming back to ( reviews can be so biased, I just don't trust them)
Cheers
Last edited:
mnj
League 2
- 8 January 2007
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
4:3 is possible, 16:9 is not possible, because a) football is usually 11:11, except if some red cards get shown by the referree and then it's less but never more, so having 16 on one side is impossible and b) in PES 2011 Konami made it only possible to play 4:4 controlled by humans max.
ilfenomeno
La Gueule
- 12 October 2010
Yay, great tip, gonna try it out, thanks!
Master League has to wait until a bigger patch is out.
Bailzebub
''shooto miss''
- 25 October 2001
I'll probably sit down and have a good go at this tonight on Master League.
One thing i've always had with PES/WE is a love/hate relationship regarding aspects of the AI, sometimes i still feel, dare i say it, things are scripted.
Occasionally i feel i have interrupted a CPU pattern and it rectifies this by making something daft happen. My players have made all manner of weird errors, stumbles for no reason, insane miss-kicks or just a sudden sluggishness.
Now the only reason i notice this is because, at times there seems no way out, dribbling will result in a tackle, the pass will become one of those "automatic" weak passes, even though position, button pressure etc feels right.
Some of the comedy that has occured when i've nicked the ball and gotten through on goal for example. I've had the CPU do some weird "stuttering" animation next to my player to make it impossible for me to move or pass the ball off, resulting in my player standing normally, then flying off with some weird stumble.
I once had two players in a row do that weak "slide shot" even when positoning, posture and composure was right.
-
Don't get me wrong, these are quirks of AI, AI in fighting games is ten times worse than this, they often read inputs and perform moves when by all accounts the game-engine doesn't allow them to be done (instant charge moves, instant "throw techs"). I'm a big advocate of nothing is "cheap", in these games, every pattern, every spammed move is counterable in multi-player. AI forces you to play in patterns or punish mistakes, where-as success in a fighting game vs an equally skilled opponent is mix-up and mind-games.
I actually don't know what AI can do to be "fairer", there has to be an element of challenge for a player that rivals solid multi-player but i'd argue in multi-player you lose because you are outfoxed, outplayed. In some cases vs AI you lose because of weird little periods of nothing going right.
-
It's not as big a gripe as the amount of text i've written would imply, i still enjoy this iteration a lot and it's not as blatant as previous titles.
There's a fine line to be had between keeping things challenging, and then leaving all kinds of loopholes in the AI a player can exploit to ruin the one-player game...
It just grates a little when on paper you've done everything right, but a moment or two of "randomness" causes you to concede or fluff up a cracking move.
One thing i've always had with PES/WE is a love/hate relationship regarding aspects of the AI, sometimes i still feel, dare i say it, things are scripted.
Occasionally i feel i have interrupted a CPU pattern and it rectifies this by making something daft happen. My players have made all manner of weird errors, stumbles for no reason, insane miss-kicks or just a sudden sluggishness.
Now the only reason i notice this is because, at times there seems no way out, dribbling will result in a tackle, the pass will become one of those "automatic" weak passes, even though position, button pressure etc feels right.
Some of the comedy that has occured when i've nicked the ball and gotten through on goal for example. I've had the CPU do some weird "stuttering" animation next to my player to make it impossible for me to move or pass the ball off, resulting in my player standing normally, then flying off with some weird stumble.
I once had two players in a row do that weak "slide shot" even when positoning, posture and composure was right.
-
Don't get me wrong, these are quirks of AI, AI in fighting games is ten times worse than this, they often read inputs and perform moves when by all accounts the game-engine doesn't allow them to be done (instant charge moves, instant "throw techs"). I'm a big advocate of nothing is "cheap", in these games, every pattern, every spammed move is counterable in multi-player. AI forces you to play in patterns or punish mistakes, where-as success in a fighting game vs an equally skilled opponent is mix-up and mind-games.
I actually don't know what AI can do to be "fairer", there has to be an element of challenge for a player that rivals solid multi-player but i'd argue in multi-player you lose because you are outfoxed, outplayed. In some cases vs AI you lose because of weird little periods of nothing going right.
-
It's not as big a gripe as the amount of text i've written would imply
, i still enjoy this iteration a lot and it's not as blatant as previous titles.There's a fine line to be had between keeping things challenging, and then leaving all kinds of loopholes in the AI a player can exploit to ruin the one-player game...
It just grates a little when on paper you've done everything right, but a moment or two of "randomness" causes you to concede or fluff up a cracking move.
Last edited:
Thespeedster84
Champions League
- 4 October 2010
MU (me) - Milan (cpu) = 1 - 0 @ mins 70. Ibra is trying to dive in my penalty box and yellow carded lol 
ilfenomeno
La Gueule
- 12 October 2010
When he asked about 4:3 or 16:9 he ment the desiplay resolution and not the players on the field ^_^
henrys hand
Premier League
- 2 September 2010
I know.. I made a joke, hmm, should have used some smilies to make it clearer.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
how can you guys begin a master league knowing that green zone bug is still there?
is there a way to diminuish this bug?
i simply don't have joy playing in Master League this way
it's a shame Konami doesn't give us a release date for this patch
is there a way to diminuish this bug?
i simply don't have joy playing in Master League this way
it's a shame Konami doesn't give us a release date for this patch
pjft
Public Service Optimism
- 23 June 2003
Hi Ameppe.
I am sorry, but at least in Top Player I do not experience the green zone bug I experienced in the demo - or at least it has been toned down significantly.
At least in my experience, in a CL campaign, I never experienced the bug, and the CPU pressured me a LOT more than in the demo.
Also, I apologize if I haven't been able to keep up with the last 50+ pages of this thread, but the last thing I had read was Han's question about 4 vs 4, and in the manual it says you can play 4 vs 4 online in Legends mode. I don't know if it had been answered before, and if so, I apologize.
Another thing I really like is that when playing BAL in Vertical Wide camera, the L2 button when off-the ball will zoom out the field view, making it a great way to keep track of the game.
Regards, and thanks for all this build up until yesterday when I finally got my PS3 version from Amazon!
It's great to be part of this community. Now, off to seeing you all online
Paulo Tavares - pjft @ PSN
jonneymendoza
Legend
- 1 January 2004
- Arsenal
360 pad. if thats what u mean?
Watched England game last night the way they kicked-off with the camera angle the first thing that came into my head was Pes 2011.
I've finally decided to go next gen this year and what i'm playing is brilliant not perfect but highly enjoyable.
Played it with a ex-pro now fifa convert over the weekend and the games we played were tight but still end to end. Switched over to Fifa 11(which feels like Fifa 10.1 and while I enjoy the freedom of movement in that game and some animations I found the game of football itself to be far too open & was on the receiving end of some thrashings.
Not quite there yet Konami but they are going in the right direction, I personally think they need to revamp the engine entirely like do a Nintendo and revolutionise football gaming totally even if that means splitting people down the middle.
Can anyone tell me if I have to forward specific ports to get a playable experience online? I can play FIFA and COD online no problem, but I'm trying to get into MLO and it's really hard when you constantly get a red bar connection and slowdowns all over the place. Any help would be much appreciated.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
use this program by Konami to check your ports and post here your results
http://www.konami.jp/we/online/2011/_tool/eu/PortChkPES2011EUPS3.zip
Re: Re: PES 2011 Discussion thread
Richard Roma?
GUESS WHO
GUESS WHO THE TARGET IS
GUESS WHO
[Check Results]
UPnP enabled.
Auto Setup Mode: [O] Playable
Manual Setup Mode: Please run an Internet Connection Test with your PlayStation(R) 3 to check.
* Please try entering a UDP port number other than 3658 or those within the 49152-49166 range.
* Manually setting up your ports should allow for a good connection. However, please adjust your port forward settings on your router first.
* When using the port forwarding function on your router, make sure to apply it to your game console.
* Please note that performance levels may differ when playing the game due to the effects of your personal firewall.
thats mine now what do i do
Did the check, changed a few settings and I'll see if I get better results later today. Thanks
Shearer_God
League 1
- 8 April 2006
Anyone have any tips for someone new to MLO? To save me getting off to a crap start. 
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
now try an Internet connection test on your ps3 entering an UDP port like 3659,3660 and so on, except 3658 and those from 49152 to 49166[Check Results]
UPnP enabled.
Auto Setup Mode: [O] Playable
Manual Setup Mode: Please run an Internet Connection Test with your PlayStation(R) 3 to check.
* Please try entering a UDP port number other than 3658 or those within the 49152-49166 range.
* Manually setting up your ports should allow for a good connection. However, please adjust your port forward settings on your router first.
* When using the port forwarding function on your router, make sure to apply it to your game console.
* Please note that performance levels may differ when playing the game due to the effects of your personal firewall.
thats mine now what do i do
if you still have problems then forward these ports on your router too
remember, this is for ps3, for pc there is another tool
ilfenomeno
La Gueule
- 12 October 2010
Was there an official statement at all that they will patch it?
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
Nothing official, Murphy said team is working to fix the problem, while they already fixed the rainbow flicks being too effective
http://twitter.com/#!/JonMurphy_PES/status/25962794869
look
ilfenomeno
La Gueule
- 12 October 2010
Thank you.
Scutch
Futsal Master
Haha. No, sorry, I meant what buttons are you using for close control dribbling? I'm trying to master this at the moment and struggling.