PES 2009 General Discussion Etc. (STRICTLY NO FIFA TALK OR POLITICAL CHAT)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Rob92 said:
That image didn't come up correctly, but even if they look the same as in that PES pic, we know that they are like that for every team in the game from the other screenshots... When you next go into a sports shop, compare the length of the shorts to the length of the shirts, there's a fairly big difference...

They never did this in any other PES games, not even on PS1 I don't think, so why in this generation of consoles can they totally fuck up the length of the shorts in a game TWO YEARS RUNNING?
Click to expand...

fair enuff. i dont really care either way tbh, but you make a valid point!;))

anyway, i havent played PES 2008 at all for past 11 months, some games on PES6 and sort of lost interest in it and games in general recently. Guess its getting me getting older and having a 2 yr old son!!!
But gotta say I really miss a fix of a top notch footy game. I tried PES2008 again and also Uefa 2008 but they were sort of fun for a few games but quickly lost interest in both. Both are lacking games in differnet areas.

I really need PES2009 to rekindle my love for footy games and computer games in general! :DANCE: C'mon konami dont let us down this time
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

zeemeister said:
I think this would make for one lame ass videogame I agree with the manual passing bit but imagine if for example we were talking about a simple thing such as heading a ball. The real dynamics involved are astounding, you have:
- the movement of the ball in the air dependent on trajectory, swerve, spin, power and a whole lot of other physics.
- the movememt of the player based on strength, balance jump height and all the other nuances.

Now try to bring all of these into a simple action like making a cross and heading it in a videogame. It just is not possible.

Gaming is like watching a movie or reading a book, its escapism and not supposed to be real else it won't be fun.
Click to expand...


Well, not sure I understand you, but what you described is already in both FIFA and PES. The ball trajectory is affected by swerve/spin, an air resistance calculation to determine how the speed will change, etc.

The player's ability to head the ball in PES is determined by his Jump stat and Heading stat. Ideally they would also include the Balance stat and such.


So right now the physics and stat things are there.


What I _Personally_ would implement for headers in current games are:


1. A power bar for the power the player should aim to get, since in PES it is only possible to head with a fixed power, which often leads to a pass header being far to hard and overshooting your teammate if he is standing close.

2. A way to decide what height the player should try and get on the header, ie if you want to lob-touch it to a teammate behind you, or if you want to head it into the ground etc.. He should be somewhat limited in how much he can influence this, since it takes lots of skills to properly head a ball.


The players Balance, and Heading stats decide whether he is more or less skilled at getting the result (regarding power, direction, height etc) you want. The worse the stats, the higher the error of margin, and the higher the instances of complete mis-hits and botched headers.




The same reasoning would apply to Volleys, but there you'd have Shot Tech, Balance, Technique stats affecting the accuracy of the result rather than Heading and Balance stats.


So all the PES team would need to do to make me happy is add a power bar and a way to somewhat decide height on the header (I would want the tilt angle of the analog stick for that, same for shots and such).
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

@ trance Good idea. I'm all for manual passing and shooting and dont like when I want to volley and the player executes a weak header. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't want Pes to become too realistic because I do not want to suck at it as bad as I suck on real football. LoL
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I don't think PES will become TOO realistic, they seem to have made it clear enough with their last two games (PES6 and 08) that the audience they are aiming at are people who want an arcadey, pick up and play fun game with little or no realism in it.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Rob92 said:
I don't think PES will become TOO realistic, they seem to have made it clear enough with their last two games (PES6 and 08) that the audience they are aiming at are people who want an arcadey, pick up and play fun game with little or no realism in it.
Click to expand...
Understatement of the year methinks!
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

After sitting back and thinking for a bit, the arcade/simulation thing is a bit of a non-starter when it comes to comparing Fifa and PES.

Both of them these days are going down the simulation route. ISS2 and 3 were arcade games, that's why they weren't successful. PES is definitely a simulation though, the controls take loads of things into account, it's not as simple as press the shoot button and it'll do the stock shooting animation.


edit: Terry, you're the only person here who's not contributing anything. I've said this before but I'll say it again, please stop posting.
 
Last edited:
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I don't think PES 08 can be classed as an attempt at simulation, the controls are very basic and the game requires no tactical awareness and the passing requires no skill.

All the short passes are aimed and powered 100% by the AI, apart from the player they are aimed at, that for me cannot result in a simulation type of game because it just becomes a game of pinball - no patient passing is needed because you can constantly just go forward because the AI will pass perfectly all the time for you. It just becomes either a dribble fest or a one-touch, pass and move fest, no matter what teams you play as.
In real life where a pass from your left centre back to your right winger would be incredibly difficult and risky, you can pull this off with ease and put them into space on the wing because the pass is always accurate and powerful, that is not simulation.

Also, you say:
"it's not as simple as press the shoot button and it'll do the stock shooting animation."
But that's the thing, it basically is that though. All you do is:
Choose corner to aim at
Choose power/height
Choose normal/controlled/lob shot

Same system as Virtua Striker (minus controlled shot) - an arcade game.

FIFA lacks some of the qualities of PES, but, the manual controls and the tighter defences make it much more tactical, and therefore much more of a simulation, and I enjoy simulation games more than arcadey games mostly.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Virtua Striker just had a power bar for shots, you couldn't even control the direction, also I think it had 1 shooting animation. That is an arcade game.

Pro Evo has numerous factors you have to take into account, not to mention that the input is also affected by pressure. The passing is scripted but that doesn't mean that Pro Evo is, or ever was, an arcade game.

Even then passing isn't 100% perfect all the time, try a tricky pass and more likely than not it will be intercepted.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Trust me I play PES08 all the time. There might not be a power bar but there is passing strength to an extent. If you pass a ball with a slight touch of the x button you tend to pass in same manner but if you keep the button in longer it passes longer and to a player further away.

What the fu@k is up with the butcher fool?
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Actually Virtua Striker is a good example of an arcade game. I think that when people call PES an arcade game they're not 100% sure of it's meaning.

However I think the notion that the only scale we have to judge games is from Realistic to Arcade-like is a bit nonsensical. Just because a sports game doesn't mimic the actual sport, it doesn't mean it's an arcade game. For example, Adidas Power Soccer wasn't realistic or arcadey, it was just shit.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

In Virtua Striker, you could control the direction, power and decide to chip the keeper. It had 1 shooting animation because it was made about 10 years ago, most football games that old only had 1 shooting animation.

All the factors you take into account on new PES games, and being affected by pressure were in PES2 on PS1 though, that game is about 6 years old, PES has not progressed much, if at all. If you play that game, you will be surprised by how similar to the new PES games it is, the heading animations are better in it I think!

Also, when trying a "tricky" pass, the only reason some of them are intercepted are because they are scripted to do that.
I could draw a diagram but can't be bothered, so try to picture this situation.

I am controlling player A, player B is making a run on the wing but there is a defender between them and I want to put the ball into space ahead of player B. A normal pass would be intercepted, a through ball would not go far enough ahead of the player and would also be intercepted and a manual pass would be in the wrong direction because it only allows 8 directions.

What I want to be able to do is have the ability to pass wherever I want, and if I play a bad pass, I want it to be my fault, not the AI's. That would also lead to people with a better football brain being able to see openings and exploit them more than a silly little immature cunt you play online. As it stands, you cannot do that in PES because of the ancient passing system.

The use of "arcade game" may not be literally correct, but I think you know what I mean, I mean "completely unrealistic with a pick-up and play style".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I'm not sure what people see when they see pes anymore. For me it's far from arcadey.

Also, I think the difference between pes and fifa is that pes is governed by the player stats and ability. Fifa on the otherhand seems to be dependant on what buttons are being pressed. This is probably why pes seems to have that extra bit when it comes to player individuality.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I was thinking about that Virtua Striker game on the Dreamcast, I think it was version 2000.1 or something else very Japanese-y.

But yeah, making the game more manual has been what Konami have been aiming for for a while. I remember last year reading that they tried to implement 360 degree movement, but there were issues so it was dropped. I reckon that they probably had issues like with the ISS games on the N64, where player would stand on the spot and you could make them twirl around with the ball. If this is the case then fairplay, I'd rather have players on rails than a farcical control system that could be exploited by the twats online.

What I've enjoyed about these little foibles in the game is that it's given me the chance to test my skills against actual AI flaws. For example, I can now defend against the cutback goals by using the super cancel, I can also use the super cancel technique to block shots that would otherwise fly in.

Basically the smidgen of manual-ness that they have allowed into the game, I have been able to use to my advantage, sp yeah, hopefully they free the rest of the game up.

edit: That's me for tonight. Going over manual passing in Pro Evo is one sad friday night so I'm gonna cut my losses and head for bed.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

I understand what Rob is talking about there are blindspots in Pes that you cant pass into.
Lets see what Seabass and co. have implemented in Pes2009.

EDIT: yeah thats it for me too going to watch some Olympics.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

After having experienced fully manual (almost fully, still about 32 directions I think) passing in FIFA, playing PES just feels so restricted and dated, I just hope they have freed up manual passing a bit, it would add so much to the game, however, I think they would broadcast that as a major improvement, and they havn't :((.

I agree about super cancel, I miss that in FIFA badly.
It was incredible when you had your keeper rounded then sprint onto the line with super cancel and manage to head the finish away off the line, I remember doing that many times, offline and online on many many PES games :)).

My mates also regard pushing players off the ball with super cancel on PES5 cheating, because I got so used to it - I could run by the side of them, then quickly into them and they would go flying off the ball but it would not be a foul, so they banned me from doing it :(.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Badgerman said:
Seriously, people here bemoan the lack of news and then go on to mock those who actually give us news.

We all know that that Terry Butcher guy is a genuine copy/paste troll so the sooner he's banned or redirected to goatse whenever he logs onto evo-web the better.

Question, can anyone show or explain the difference between 1080i and 1080p and how much better these are than 720?

Much love.
Click to expand...

Credit to badgerman who actually trying to keep this impossible thread to something that looks normal ....all i want is pesnews i hate these fifaguys that take every opportunity to piss on our pes.
I havent and will never take my time to go in the fifa thread and say something funny about their shittygame, if they enjoy it fine ! but please let us love our game without this stupid coments all the time.
So far i really like what i read about pes and im sure i will love it when it comes out
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Does Badgerboy own this thread? Sorry I must have missed that one.

Well not long to wait to see PES2009 and we see actual gameplay no more guesswork etc. - Now let's hope it's great BUT if isn't much cop will Bagder et al., admit Konami are not the masters of the universe that are, seemingly, beyond any form of critique, no matter what they produce (such as unplayable (IMHO), and technically stagnant football games)?

Donny boy I was under the impression that there are quite a few sites that have PES news esp. in the context of empty optimism, boosterism and generally fanboyish atmospherics (no names but you know who you are!) ;)

Don I'm sure you will love PES2009; just a quick question please! Any thoughts on the positives and negatives in PES2008? Really is there anything major that Konami needs to have done to improve things?
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Terry Butcher here is just annoyed because Rangers are a selling club and can't attract any players that Celtic might want. But, anyhow...

What's the impression of the new passing system, no more stored commands? Does this mean it'll make passing more difficult, forcing players to time their passes rather than hit a button and then look to the next man before the pass has even been attempted? It sounds like things will be a lot more intuitive from here on out.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Talking about the TV's... Doesn't 1080P only really make a difference once you get to screens of 37" plus, thats what I was told anyway, might also account for 1080i compared o 720P that is.

Also isn't 1080P only achieved with a resolution of 1920x1080? As 1080i can be done on smaller resolutions as well, as most HD Ready TV's that arent 1080P are not 1920x1080.

Anyway moving onto Pro Evo, the reason I think the shorts look too long for most is that face in the picture, Messi has his shirt tucked in, technically showing all the shorts, where as most real shots has his shirt untucked, so not as much of the shorts are showing so look smaller, and but as shown in that picture, you can see the shorts are really long, and thats even with a untucked shirt, tuck it in, and it would probably look exactly the same. :D

About the defence in fifa, it is much tigther, and thats one of my annoyances, to me, in Fifa, it feels like you dont even play the defence, the AI sorts it out for you, and it takes no skill to defend. Everyones in their position, you dont have to like set up anything, nothing its just like perfect... I just tend to select a player and go for the tackle. The worst thing about that is its the same for every team, even the crap ones.

I feel like some pro on Fifa been playing the PS3 one online quite a bit won the other day 11-0, considering I havent played it in ages before that. But from this, it definately needs super cancel, would help soo soo much at times.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Well we will all see for ourselves once some gameplay footage is released of PES2009 - without that really no-one knows what Konami have in store for the community. Even as a long time PES player (from PES3) I have to admit, with sadness, that PES2008 was a major let-down. And I for one, after last year, will not take on face value anyone's 'inside' knowledge. Remember seeing is believing.
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

So is untucked shirts in this game? without them some players just dont look right

and it makes the shorts look too big, i mean Messi is the cover boy and he always wears untucked so surely it will be in the game :| :|
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

donthomasso66 said:
Credit to badgerman who actually trying to keep this impossible thread to something that looks normal ....all i want is pesnews i hate these fifaguys that take every opportunity to piss on our pes.
I havent and will never take my time to go in the fifa thread and say something funny about their shittygame, if they enjoy it fine ! but please let us love our game without this stupid coments all the time.
So far i really like what i read about pes and im sure i will love it when it comes out
Click to expand...
Haha, people like you make me laugh :LOL:.

1) You are a typical closed-minded PES fanboy who thinks anything named "FIFA" is shit, and will never give it a chance, no matter how good it gets.
Calling the game "our pes", that just shows how much of a fanboy you are.

2) You can't type - "..." is an elipsis, not " ...." with a work straight after it, and the words after it should have a capital letter.
"badgerman" should be Badgerman
"fifaguys" should be FIFA guys
etc... There is too many mistakes to correct, you need to work harder in school :TU:
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

shieldslfc said:
I've read all this before, but I have never been able to see a difference between 720p and 1080i with any game, and I'm not buying into the 1080p hype either and wasting money on a new tv, I'm going to run my 1080i/720p plasma into the ground first, and then maybe I will upgrade.
Click to expand...

Visually there isn't too much difference to notice, it's when things moving quickly that it's become more noticeable, 1080i doesn't handle moving objects as well as 720p, so for things like games and watching football and such 720p is the better option.

Badgerman said:
I think that when people call PES an arcade game they're not 100% sure of it's meaning.
Click to expand...

I disagree, I think that when people try to insist that PES is not an arcade game it's because they misunderstood the intent of arcade/simulation and think that their beloved is being insulted. Arcade and simulation are simply two different types within any genre, it doesn't mean any one is better than any other. If a shooter has infinite ammo, no bullet drop, no bullet penetration, minimum 5 shots to kill, no instant head shot death, it's an arcade shooter, doesn't mean it's a bad game, is Battlefield Bad Company a bad game because it's an arcade shooter? Certainly not, it's a really fun game, that's what PES is, a really fun, simple pick up and play arcade game with your mates. Yes it has extra depth to it, subtle nuances that mean you can appreciate its qualities but at it's core is an arcade game, embrace that, love that, don't be ashamed :)
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

thomasgoal has already hinted untucked shirts are in
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Pfff... tough page to read: The three most anti-PES-guys posting on one page: Rob, Placebo en Terry_Butcher ;)
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

zeemeister said:
Trust me I play PES08 all the time. There might not be a power bar but there is passing strength to an extent. If you pass a ball with a slight touch of the x button you tend to pass in same manner but if you keep the button in longer it passes longer and to a player further away.
Click to expand...

Actually these claims pop up on a regular basis. Usually it comes down to confirmation bias. The same basic concept has happened when others for example have claimed that using for example R2 during Freekick shots would make for a harder shot than without R2 shots. It is very easy, if you're not careful, to find small things that have changed when in fact nothing has changed.

In PES5/6 it was easy to find out if these types of claims were true since you had the "Play Again" feature in Training mode, which allowed you do recreate a certain play, if timed properly, basically bit-for-bit accurately. Which means that, since you could recreate a scenario perfectly over multiple instances (for example a volley shot or a passing situation), you could isolate certain variables, like the use or absence of holding R2 when passing, for example, or holding the pass button slightly longer.

These types of tests showed that the pass was always the same, regardless of how long, or short, you held the button. The pass was always the same, which means that the only thing that matters is button press timing, to a certain extent. Other than that everything is handled by the AI.


In PES2008 the absence of the "Play Again" feature keeps these types of experiments from being done, but if they had introduced something as nice as analog pass power sensitivity, I'm sure they would mention it in a small footnote in the "basic commands list" or in the manual. I remain skeptical about it's existence, largely due to the fact that these types of claims have been raised before PES2008, and then they could be proven to be in the head of the person who claimed it existed.

Would be a nice feature though, like the New "Hold X (PS)/A (360)longer for harder stab tackle" in PES2009. Definitely the right way to go.


Badgerman said:
That's me for tonight. Going over manual passing in Pro Evo is one sad friday night
Click to expand...

We are so different, you and I. ;)
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Han said:
Pfff... tough page to read: The three most anti-PES-guys posting on one page: Rob, Placebo en Terry_Butcher ;)
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I have already said that PES 09 could be decent if they added manual passing. I am not anti-PES, I want PES to improve so I have the choice of two different types of football games to play which are equally as good (fun game with mates - PES, realistic game - FIFA).

Why would it be tough to read anyway? Don't want anything negative said about your beloved PES? :CRY:

Good post again Trance_Allstar, I don't think it exists either.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

Han said:
Pfff... tough page to read: The three most anti-PES-guys posting on one page: Rob, Placebo en Terry_Butcher ;)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say I'm anti-PES, I would simply say I'm not pro-PES, I'm mostly Switzerland when it comes to it, Fifa is currently my number 1 football game but if Fifa09 turns out to be as phenomenally awful to play in singleplayer as Euro2008 is and PES2009's BAL is really good, I'll be Pro-PES pretty quickly :)
 
Re: PES 2009 News, Discussion and Rumours

how can anybody be anti-pro, we are members of this site because of our love for the pro-evo series....just the majority thought konami fucked up when they released pes2008
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom