Manchester United Thread

bebo said:
Is that a record for crosses ? Those are some incredible stats for a match. The crosses given and corners taken says a different story. :SMUG:
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It got worse

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In a bizarre twist, I went to catch a film at the mall in SF to get over the annoyance, and there were hundreds of United jerseys around. The prem trophy was there with Robbo. Very odd.

Shows the pull though. Despite having that kind of morning, half way across the world people are coming out in droves to through more money at the club :)
 
Jamezinho said:
I think Moyes first (and potentially biggest) mistake was to clear out Fergie's backroom staff. That kind of continuity could have been a massive help during the Ferguson-Moyes transitional period.
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I completly agree! Even Fergie himself told him that if he get them sacked he leave winning machinery that is growned for years! If we speak about Moyes month ago I think that even most hardcore fans will gave him credit to continue his work but now, NO! I watch united since I was kid, and Fergie gave us the love of United with the style of play, I support them and I will until i die whatever happens. Fergi has bad years too but with the style of play you can see that something is preparing and going upline, now under Moyes we cannot see the end of the tunel. With that stuff around him I can`t expect more, Phil Neville is not someone who you can afford to analyse tactic and etc in that level, with no offence, he doesn`t have experience AS A COACH, and that is the problem. Giggs is our legend and he deserves to be member of the staff but I think his part is not enough big like Neville just becouse he has not enough experience and Moyes know that. Moyes and other look like clan, nobody of them doesn`t know where the style of play is going...If he like to play possesion football he need to push defenders upfront and to play agressive in defence once they loose the ball, and what are they doing? Vidic humiliates himself becouse of other mistakes and players who not track opposition players during counter attacks. I feel like I watch 3 different Man Utd teams with all these tactics. We need fresh face, someone who have clear philosophy of playing attacking football, with players like ours we should score 3-4 goals with ease in every game, I know that it sounds stupid maybe but that mentallity needs to be back in the head of the players. Also a strong and expetional central defender is a must during summer transfer window, we can`t count Evans and Smalling, they are not constant in their play. Moyes is coach for middle table teams, but look at Everton now, this is a completly different team under Martinez, Everton fans must be with the fresheness in the legs and mind of the players.. We should go that way but not with Moyes, simply the things isn`t working..
 
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I predicted a 4-0 win...
And to do dplane a big favour: it's a litle simplistic to say that it is all Moyes's fault....but why would i bother anymore....i hope you find a better candidate than Moyes...i'm not sure you will.
 
Moyes, who said his players were "hurting", added: "There was only one winner in the game, and that was Manchester United."

The gap between Robin van Persie's equaliser and Michael Carrick's strike that gave United a 2-1 lead? A mere 80 seconds.

"I don't know if we could have done an awful lot more. Maybe we could have defended a couple of times a bit better, taken a few more of the chances we made, but we completely dominated and we should have won the game."

Moyes, who took over from Mr. Ferguson last summer, saw his side recover from Steve Sidwell's opener as Robin van Persie and Michael Carrick scored to put United 2-1 up with 10 minutes left.

But Darren Bent's header in the 94th-minute led to boos from some home fans at the final whistle.

"Being one down was bad enough. The amount of attempts, chances and play we had was unbelievable. How we didn't win I have no idea," Moyes added.
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http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26113305

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gerd said:
And to do dplane a big favour: it's a little simplistic to say that it is all Moyes's fault....but why would i bother anymore...
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It's not only Moyes' fault, it's also the staff he brought with him.
I don't know whether one could actually come up with any other explanation... I'll gladly read it if you could. (no sarcasm)
 
spektarm said:
It's not only Moyes' fault, it's also the staff he brought with him.
I don't know whether one could actually come up with any other explanation... I'll gladly read it if you could. (no sarcasm)
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Aye, I don't believe in one person being at fault in its entirety. There is always a supporting cast to help accomodate failure. Look at any major organization, politics, etc. However, Moyes is the one to put everyone in the places where they are at, so whether it's them or he himself not doing what they are supposed to.. ultimately responsibility befalls on him. Times have changed (for better or for worse). Results are expected quicker and patience is thinner, I agree with Gerd on that. It IS however the way things are now. I'm not arguing in favor of releasing Moyes, but at least he should handle the outside perception a little better. No one is inspired by a depressed looking man continuously stating after bad performances that "but we were better" or displaying poor body language to make folks feel as if the man in charge is simply lost. It's almost as if he s too nice for a job of this stature.
 
strainge you don´t admit it is Ferguson´s fault mostly for appointing him and giving that speech. Also for leaving United in the state they are, not replacing old players enough...

because even if you sack Moyes, who will you hire to replace him? It is the bigest job in football to replace Ferguson after such long years...
 
beachryan said:
In a bizarre twist, I went to catch a film at the mall in SF to get over the annoyance, and there were hundreds of United jerseys around. The prem trophy was there with Robbo. Very odd.

Shows the pull though. Despite having that kind of morning, half way across the world people are coming out in droves to through more money at the club :)
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I almost went to that, got an email on Friday. Unfortunately it was raining up where I was in Santa Rosa, flash flood warnings. And people around here drive like idiots when there's any type of weather abnormality.
 
daikirai said:
I almost went to that, got an email on Friday. Unfortunately it was raining up where I was in Santa Rosa, flash flood warnings. And people around here drive like idiots when there's any type of weather abnormality.
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Yeah, weather has been crazy last few days, but at least it means we're not going to be in drought conditions soon!

The prem trophy isn't nearly as big as it looks on tv. Which is odd. I've not see the CL in real life, but I guess that must be seriously larger.

So, Arsenal on Wednesday. I'm thinking a big 3-0 victory for us, how is everyone is feeling?
 
Wait do you live in SF? Or the area?
And yeah it's been ridiculous, I can remember maybe 10 days of rain, if that. I really wanted to see the trophy in person, the lady would not have it though.
 
PIPA23 said:
strainge you don´t admit it is Ferguson´s fault mostly for appointing him and giving that speech. Also for leaving United in the state they are, not replacing old players enough...

because even if you sack Moyes, who will you hire to replace him? It is the bigest job in football to replace Ferguson after such long years...
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To blame SAF would be too simple minded imho. He may have hand picked or whatever but h didn't make him pick his staff, tactics, etc. Plus I find it very very hard to believe that an organization as large as United would pick the new guy simply because SAF said so. A whole bunch of other folks are behind that story. Aside from. that, don't recall ever saying SAF has no stake in this at all. Tottenham and Everton are above us. Nuff said.
 
After reading Fergie's biography, there's definitely an element of nepotism behind the choice of Moyes, especially given how Fergie waxes lyrical about his Scottish, working class background.
 
I think Moyes is entirely Fergie's fault. But, I can't totally blame him - if you look at the premier league (for a proven manager) Moyes would probably be top of the list. So he should have been on United's short list. But he should then have been passed on due to his record of achieving nothing of note.

But the disaster that is this season is down to Moyes. We have probably the 4th or 5th best squad in the league. At worst. And, the main problem is the midfield - which Moyes has had 2 transfer windows to fix, and hasn't. And our football is absolutely woeful. Defending is diabolical, midfield is overlooked and the attack is predictable and not playing to the personnel we have.

I genuinely believe letting the players pick their own team would result in better performances than this.
 
beachryan said:
I genuinely believe letting the players pick their own team would result in better performances than this.
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For one or two matches and then thing would go downhill very quick.The average professional top player is stupid, egoïstic and childish....

I've had a couple of friends who played professional football, one wouldn't believe the stupidity of most of those players...in a dressing room there is plenty of harassment, rivalry and most football players only think about their own intrests, not about the club.

That would be a real disaster...
 
You never let the players choose the teams. It'd go very very badly for any sport club. The Manager must have the final say over team matters and the authority. Sadly, for most teams, players are the ones that are more powerful than the manager, so when the players play poorly, the manager is the one getting fired rather than the player (Guess it's always easier to change one than to change a whole team).

But with that said, A poor manager cannot hold on to a good team. He loses the players' confidence, then after a few losses, everything just spirals downwards. If you look at Rooney's expression (and all the other players) after Carrick's second goal went in, you will know how important that "victory" would've been. It could've been the thing to push the player's confidence back up and things can be back on the rise. (Not sure how i'd feel if Moyes did win against Fulham. How many crosses would go in against Arsenal then...100?)

But anywayz, the problem is already too big to blame anyone. Of course you can say it's Moyes' fault with his tactics, team choice, staff choice, or even SAF's problem for appointing Moyes, but hindsight is always 20-20. We know for a fact that Moyes will not be sacked until after this season at least, so there is no point in saying otherwise. Let's just hope that a miracle happens or Moyes finally plays the players in their correct positions and with the proper tactic to win. Games are still to be played, and who knows...Europa League cannot be that bad (if we make it to 5th)
 
ss4_goku said:
You never let the players choose the teams. It'd go very very badly for any sport club. The Manager must have the final say over team matters and the authority. Sadly, for most teams, players are the ones that are more powerful than the manager, so when the players play poorly, the manager is the one getting fired rather than the player (Guess it's always easier to change one than to change a whole team).

But with that said, A poor manager cannot hold on to a good team. He loses the players' confidence, then after a few losses, everything just spirals downwards. If you look at Rooney's expression (and all the other players) after Carrick's second goal went in, you will know how important that "victory" would've been. It could've been the thing to push the player's confidence back up and things can be back on the rise. (Not sure how i'd feel if Moyes did win against Fulham. How many crosses would go in against Arsenal then...100?)

But anywayz, the problem is already too big to blame anyone. Of course you can say it's Moyes' fault with his tactics, team choice, staff choice, or even SAF's problem for appointing Moyes, but hindsight is always 20-20. We know for a fact that Moyes will not be sacked until after this season at least, so there is no point in saying otherwise. Let's just hope that a miracle happens or Moyes finally plays the players in their correct positions and with the proper tactic to win. Games are still to be played, and who knows...Europa League cannot be that bad (if we make it to 5th)
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Very fine post.
 
Letting the players call the shots? It would very much look like this:

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ss4_goku said:
You never let the players choose the teams. It'd go very very badly for any sport club. The Manager must have the final say over team matters and the authority. Sadly, for most teams, players are the ones that are more powerful than the manager, so when the players play poorly, the manager is the one getting fired rather than the player (Guess it's always easier to change one than to change a whole team).
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This describes Chelsea to a tee before Mourinho joined again. Maybe with the exception of Guus Hiddink, all the other managers 'lost the fight' to heavy influence from senior players as Terry, Cole, Drogba, Cech.
You could say that team picked itself out. When they were unhappy they underperformed and it was Scolari, Avram Grant, Villas Boas, Di Matteo who took the chop. Even with Di Matteo winning the CL.

So, no it's never a good thing to let players take that much control. A strong hand is needed by the manager.
Moyes did it right with Everton, now he's adjusting to another level. He has to deal with prima donnas who are some of the best paid athletes in the world (thinking mostly of RvP and Rooney), so it's a different beast. How he will fare dealing with such egos remain to be seen.
 
Sorry, I wasn't being literal. I've met a good few footballers and definitely know their mental capabilities(almost all of them, depressingly).

I've been thinking about this a lot (too much!) and what is truly scary is just how bad a position we're actually in. This summer, we will need:

1. At least one centre back, to replace Vidic and Ferdinand
2. 2 left backs, one to be a pro footballer (not Buttner) the other to replace Evra
3. 2 central midfielders. Giggs and Anderson will be gone, Carrick is looking increasingly too old, Fletcher is a shadow and that leaves Cleverley and Fellaini. Gulp.

So okay, need maybe 4/5 players. That's maybe doable in a single window, but very hard, and certainly in a world cup year. But then it gets scarier.

We're set to lose: Evra, Rio, Vida, Giggs, Anderson, Nani and potentially Rooney (though I believe he'll stay). That is a staggering amount of players to lose at once. And it gets worse.

For centre back next year we'll have Evans, Smalling and Jones. They're all decent, but all somewhat injury prone. They've barely kept a clean sheet between them for a year. Not good.

Our only right back (Varela has yet to make a match day squad) is Rafael. Who is injured half the time too.

We don't have a left back next season. Not one. In our squad. No Buttner doesn't count.

Nani is going to leave. Everyone everywhere seems to know this, apparently his new contract was just to ensure we get some cash. So that'll leave us with Young, Valencia and Adnan for the wings.

We're fine in AMF, possibly too fine (Rooney, Kagawa, Mata) and fine in striker.

Basically, Moyes needs to rebuild half a team. That is terrifying. How did Fergie let it get this bad?
 
Well, to be honest, as Fergie stated himself in his book that once you are confirmed about retirement, your mind shifts more onto the life after than the matters of the club. As much as Fergie loved the club and his "legacy" its normal for him to prioritize who the next manager will be and to deal with matters at hand more so than the future. I mean, he didn't even do much about Rooney's situation nor try to diffuse it for the next guy and that says a lot when Rooney's supposedly the star of the team.

Also, on another note, a new manager would always want to bring in his own philosophy and style so it would've been hard for Fergie to think about the future without knowing how the next guy will use them or play them. (Case in point, Zaha. He was definitely a great buy bought for the future and if Fergie was still manager, he'd definitely be used and called the next big thing rather than Zanuzaj. But under Moyes, Zaha rarely played and didn't really fit into Moyes' plans)

But yea, in the coming transfer window, there's going to be an overhaul of the team and with the way the media (and the world) perceives Moyes and the "new" Manchester United, it'd be very difficult to attract any star players. Especially after a World Cup when all players get over-priced over a short month-long tournament that shows nothing of the player's long-term play and the players of the winning nation get crazily overpriced and looked up to as gods (case in point, Kleberson...*shiver*)
 
So any predictions for tonight? And what do you think the lineup will be?

De Gea

Rafael......Smalling.......Jones......Evra

Valencia......Carrick......Januzaj

Mata

Rooney.....Van Persie

What do you think of this? Only problem might be the midfield would be a bit too porous.
 
united indeed have too many options in the attacking area. so I think they should let rooney go in the summer if he won't be willing to stay and obviously get some defensive reinforcements. I don't think they're short of finances to do that but selling rooney would make up for the great deal of their possible expenditures as well.
 
Is there a lineup Moyes could pick everyone would be happy with? I have my doubts, it was the same with Fergie.

You need a Valencia/Young to balance out Mata/Januzaj, you need a Jones/Fellaini/Fletcher alongside Carrick and you can't drop Van Persie or Rooney.

I suspect it'll be the same lineup as Fulham except Fletcher for Jones/Fellaini (if either are fit) and perhaps Valencia for Young.

De Gea

Rafael - Smalling - Evans - Evra

Valencia - Jones - Carrick - Mata

Rooney

van Persie​

Hopefully with an inform Valencia, as we looked a much better side with Januzaj actually running at Fulham. But I don't think we'll take the risk of playing both Januzaj and Mata leaving us more defensively vulnerable than we already look.
 
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