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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

Both take their blame, but Roy is setting the players out to play like Fulham. He's not taking advantage of any of the player strengths at all.

Joe Cole should be running at players with the ball, not cutting in on his right foot and putting crosses in.

Torres should be getting the ball fed through for him to run onto, not dealing with long balls.

Meireles should be playing centre midfield, not right wing.

Those are just a few examples.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

The West Ham team that got relegated:

As for being to good to go down in 2003 we were relegated with these players in our squad
David James
Joe Cole
Michael Carrick
Paolo Di Canio
Glen Johnson
Lee Bowyer
Trevor Sinclair
Frederic Kanoute
Steve Lomas
Anton Ferdinand
Les Ferdinand
Don Hutchinson
Nigel Winterburn
Tomas Repka
Click to expand...

I blame Cole and Johnson :(
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
...Joe Cole should be running at players with the ball, not cutting in on his right foot and putting crosses in....
Click to expand...

I'm not even a Liverpool 'fan' and I was screaming at the TV at Joe Cole. EVERY time he was cutting back to his right foot - every single time. Becomes so easy to defend against.

I've never seen him play wide right for club or country?! He's got a decent cross on him, but shot of any confidence.

I think he is a prime example of a 'luxury' player - in that he doesnt contribute to a side defensively, so it becomes a case of where to play him where he will do less damage - hence he gets shoved out on the left.

I dont think you can play him AND Gerrard in any sort of central role and has just been a very odd signing if you are trying to rebuild the side. Liverpool already have one free spirit in Gerrard, who will also contribute defensively too when required.

Ideally, I'd play Cole central behind a front man (or 2), but just not possible with the players Liverpool have...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

4-3-2-1 is the formation, with Cole and Gerrard behind.

Torres

Cole - Gerrard

Lucas - Meireles - Poulsen? (Very short on CMF options :( )

Konchesky - Agger - Carra/Skrtel - Johnson/Kelly

Reina
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

As a matter of fact, Poulsen was perhaps Europ's best DMF when playing for Sevilla...he was their most important player...

Liverpool will not face a relegation. Come on...
Oh and Everton actually have a very good team..

And it sin't Hodgson that relegated Blackburn. In the end it's all about the players and much less the manager.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
4-3-2-1 is the formation, with Cole and Gerrard behind.

Torres

Cole - Gerrard

Lucas - Meireles - Poulsen? (Very short on CMF options :( )

Konchesky - Agger - Carra/Skrtel - Johnson/Kelly

Reina
Click to expand...

That would actually work very well. I'm 'Pool at the moment on PES11 ML, so might give this a try! I have just got RVN in on loan though to take some of the pressure off of Nando.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Actually I'd put Meireles on the right, in place of Poulsen. Still essentially playing centre midfield but pushing to the right-forward position when we're in possession of the ball and giving support and options to the team.

Might give it a go on PES myself :LOL:

When Kuyt comes back, put Meireles back in the middle, Kuyt on the right hand side, drop Poulsen.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
Actually I'd put Meireles on the right, in place of Poulsen. Still essentially playing centre midfield but pushing to the right-forward position when we're in possession of the ball and giving support and options to the team.

Might give it a go on PES myself :LOL:

When Kuyt comes back, put Meireles back in the middle, Kuyt on the right hand side, drop Poulsen.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd keep Kuyt as a back-up forward. He had that great run a couple of years back. Personally always thought he was wasted out wide.

Poulsen isnt that bad, if used purely as a holding midfielder. He's been a good player at international level and not turned into a complete stinker over night.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I'd rather play Kuyt in midfield and on the right of Meireles, rather than have Kuyt on the bench.

Clearly Poulsen isn't rubbish or anything, but his passing his very limited and his pace is non-existent. He's a bit like a poor mans Mascherano in a way, and as soon as someone goes a few yards away from him, he can't get into them in time.

Maybe he'll adjust, but I can't see it. £4.5m wasted, surely must've been better players around. Or was it just a case of Roy signing another of his mates, like Konchesky?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

To put a positive spin on things;

vs Arsenal
vs City
vs WB (have beaten Arsenal and drawn Utd)
vs Birmingham (always tough)
vs Utd
vs Sunderland (should be a win, but drew Utd aswell)
vs Blackpool (should be a win, but unluckly to lose against City yesterday)
vs Everton (You never know in these games)
Click to expand...

We might possibly have had the toughest starts to the season when you account for even the expected wins to have been against form teams causing trouble for the other big teams. Resultwise I wouldn't be hugely worried yet, it's just that the performances have been clueless!

Media pressure seems to be picking up now, wonder how long he will last...
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Rafa is and was 10 times the manager that Roy now is...even last year, i think Roy had a decent amount of matches now with this squad to prove something..i think he said when arriving to LFC, he would end up higher than 7 place with this squad that Benitez had..now we are at the bottom, with him having no clue at all what to do, what to chainge, where to play a player, when to substitute..

He bought two his own players + Meireles, he loaned out Aquilani without giving him a chance + Insua..

+ he got few new players in Cole, Jovanovic and Wilson

out is "only" Mascherano

so saying Roy needs time is bullshit, he has got the time, he got two weeks to prepeare the team for Everton...while it was one of our worst performances ever in a derby, he said we played best football while he is here...

he must go.. and he will go, i doubt new owners will wait long to fire him..
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I think the biggest dissapointment yesterday was that the news of the owners didn't seem to have any effect. We were hoping the poor performances were due to the mess with the club, and something that was used as an excuse by Rafa, and which seemed plausible. However they did nothing better yesterday when they should have been "on" after the news. Maybe they have realised how mediocre Hodgsen actually is compared to Benitez and that has gotten them down aswell.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

exactly, but as it is now clearly the poor performances are becouse of poor managment, coaching work.

I honestly can´t imagine how Hodgson if he stayes will motivate the team for match against Neapol for example..

I can´t imagine him motivating someone at our club, he was the guy who did wonders for Fulham but here the expectations and media could drive him crazy.. No wonder his interviews are more and more worrying.. I never read such crazy interviews from our manager, seems like he was living in his own reality... He does not even know how much matches we lost for example..
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

That's entirely irrelivent now though isn't it? Rafa tried to sign Jovetic and was promised he'd have the money to sign both Aquilani and Jovetic, until the time come to make a bid and he was let down.

The difference is that Hodgson was actually given the money to sign a striker and had the time as well, but he decided to go for Carlton Cole :LOL: :FAIL:

I used to like Hodgson, i still do sort of (not happy about the bullshit he keeps coming out with), but he's clearly out of his depth at Anfield.

With regards to Torres, the reason he was different under Rafa is because Rafa played with a better style of football and actually had players supporting the striker. He's getting absolutely no support right now, yesterday was a perfect example of that, most of the times he had the ball he was 30-40 yards from goal and surrounded by Everton players.

We're playing ridiculously deep, there's no connection between the defence and the midfield and no connection between the midfield and the attack. It's fucking playground stuff at the minute.

The players we've got are good enough, there's a lot of quality in that team but it's being used in such an awful way that you don't see the quality, and even players like Torres, Gerrard, Maxi etc. look like poor players because of it, when we all know they're not.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

for example yesterday i see no reason playing maxi rodriguez... why Jovanovic is on the bench? why Babel is now on bench? both could start yesterday..

we have no midfield atm. Gerrard playes what he can but the rest are isolated due to the tactics.. for example Cole, Lucas.. Torres was invisible yesterday..

we have to chainge it before very difficult matches, otherwise we will fight for staying in the premier league.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
The same man who was seen as a a wizard for what he did with Fulham, is now completely worthless...the influence of managers/coaches is exagerated both when things are going well or bad...

Liverpool was already abysmall last season...
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Thats the thing though.Seen as a wizard??By who??The english press who overhypes anything english?Otto Rehagel won the euro's with Greece.What does that make him?This "wizard" you speak of hasnt won away(with fulham as well) since he grew the other chin.He has no prior honours in his management career.Destroyed Blackburn just after they were champions.Sure the press loves him cos hes fuckin senile and speaks thru his arse,what they want to hear.We werent abysmal last season.You wouldnt know why Rafa never achieved similiar results(2ND IN LEAGUE,WHIPING THE LIKES OF REAL IN EUROPE)with practically the same squad bar Alonso(huge miss),Arbeloa(much,much better than Johnson IMO).What i can tell you is two senior scousers in the squad are the reasons for the above mentioned.One even got himself his two year extension now.They must be real proud of themselves now.Having the likes of konchesky playin beside them.Enoughs enough!Hodgson out!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Well after all that is said and (not) done, maybe it's best that Hodgson leaves, but i refuse to see him as a bad manager or to say that Liverpool's sorry state is his fault.
The new owners should sack Hodgson so the players have no excuse whatever to perform like underachievers. With the ownership sorted out and Hodgson away it's all up to the players...will it change a lot? i doubt it in all honesty.

Don't expect too much from Jovanovic, he's far from a bad player but he's not the man that will bring the necessary spark. There is a rumour here in Belgium that Liverpool are after Steven Defour (and Everton after Jelle Vossen, a very prolific goal scorer at the moment). Defour last season was lousy due to injuries...two years ago he was great (Ferguson was after him and even sent him a letter when he was injured) but he still isn't the player he was before his injury. He missed his big chance to leave Standard because of his injury...
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Hodgson is not bad manager, he is just not the right one for Liverpool at this time at his age, with his comments and with his tactics.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Jumbo_ said:
Remember what he says to the press isn't necessarily what he's thinking or saying behind the scenes. Infact it's probably quite different.

Last year when you were shit, the blame was placed solely with the owners - how could Rafa operate in these conditions?! But now it's all silly old Roy's fault. Useless midtable chancer who got lucky with the biggest club in the world. How dare he even try to manage your club.

The fact is you lost the match because your players showed absolutely no bottle or fight, Captain Fantastic Mr Gerrard once again leading by example. Everton were hungrier for the win, quicker to every ball, and fought harder. It's Hodgson's job to motivate but like someone said earlier, if players can't get pumped for the Mersyside derby then something's seriously wrong. Most managers would struggle to pick up this bunch at the minute, why do you think Roy is trying to remain positive in his comments to the media? If he comes out and says their bollocks (like he did when you lost to Northampton, which he was criticised for!!) then morale depletes further and things get even worse. Things have been on a downward spiral since last season, this is nothing new.

Hodgson's not doing a good job by any means but the pressure and scrutiny he's been put under is unfair. Basically, his face doesn't fit for fans who see themselves as a club who should win things and think they should have a big name manager.
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Totally disagree.

No one wanted Roy Hodgson. Would you have him at United? Of course not.

Just because he did well at Fulham doesnt mean jack when it comes to Liverpool. Rafa clearly underperformed last year but we finished seventh which was deemed unacceptable, so what makes you think were we are now is?

I couldnt give a crap how nice a man he is, or how pally and recommended he is by ferguson, Moyes and Bruce (although lets be honest, theyll be full of praise for him while bagging the points) he is not and never will be Liverpool material.

Hes been here since pre season, and i have not seen one shred of evidence, not one that this team will click under him. We could be quite negative under Rafa, but feck me, under Roy its a given. We only ever start playing when we are 2 down now as opposed to only 1 down under Rafa last season.

Hodgson is one of those specialist managers. Like O'Neill, Coppell ect who come in to a low to mid table side with no expectations and punch above their weight. They are not suited to a top class club with high expectations, whether you think Liverpool are average or not they are still Liverpool, a name synomanous with success around the globe.

And on the subject of players, i watched yesterdays game and had no clue where anyone was playing positionally. the players didnt know either, so whats Roy sending them out to do? this team is good enough - maybe not for winning the prem, maybe even not top four yet, this team is full of first team internationals, but they lack direction and confidence.

We need a manager, tactically adept and disciplined, someone with a commanding respect in the game, to come in and give direction.

hodgson definetely isnt that man.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Dryzer said:
Totally disagree.

No one wanted Roy Hodgson. Would you have him at United? Of course not.

Just because he did well at Fulham doesnt mean jack when it comes to Liverpool. Rafa clearly underperformed last year but we finished seventh which was deemed unacceptable, so what makes you think were we are now is?

I couldnt give a crap how nice a man he is, or how pally and recommended he is by ferguson, Moyes and Bruce (although lets be honest, theyll be full of praise for him while bagging the points) he is not and never will be Liverpool material.

Hes been here since pre season, and i have not seen one shred of evidence, not one that this team will click under him. We could be quite negative under Rafa, but feck me, under Roy its a given. We only ever start playing when we are 2 down now as opposed to only 1 down under Rafa last season.

Hodgson is one of those specialist managers. Like O'Neill, Coppell ect who come in to a low to mid table side with no expectations and punch above their weight. They are not suited to a top class club with high expectations, whether you think Liverpool are average or not they are still Liverpool, a name synomanous with success around the globe.

And on the subject of players, i watched yesterdays game and had no clue where anyone was playing positionally. the players didnt know either, so whats Roy sending them out to do? this team is good enough - maybe not for winning the prem, maybe even not top four yet, this team is full of first team internationals, but they lack direction and confidence.

We need a manager, tactically adept and disciplined, someone with a commanding respect in the game, to come in and give direction.

hodgson definetely isnt that man.
Click to expand...


Totally agree....
The problem with Hodgson is he has a "system" that has worked
with smaller teams....and he refuses to move away from it...
He has bought into the media hype that he is one of the best coaches
around.
He does not realize that his system does not work at Liverpool..
and he does not know how to handle it....he is just trying
and hoping it will click one day.
At Fulham he had the luxury of one full season of trial and error
and they barely escaped relegation.....

But this is Liverpool, no matter how much we have declined...
this team can be managed far better and be atleast in the top 7
like last season.
The fact they have fallen so far....is proof that Hodgson does not
have a clue.
The fact that he signed Joe Cole, Poulsen, Konchesky just shows he
his out of touch with reality....we cannot afford to make so many
mistakes in the transfer market..
Rafa made several mistakes....and we needed someone who had a much higher
percentage of success than Hodgson.

Looking at Hodgson's interviews....they remind of me the
last season of Houllier and Rafa to some extent....
the delusional "we played well"...."the players worked hard"...crap.
I mean....come on.....this is 8 league games in his first season..
and Hodgson is already giving us this crap...
Both Houllier and Benitez were FAR BETTER than Hodgson....

But who can replace him ?
This would be not for anyone fainthearted.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Liverpool should rebuild a completely new team...sell players like Gerrard, Carragher, Torres and others. With the money this genrates you can buy a young hungry team...Players like Gerrard and Carrragher are seen as heroes, to me they are failures, these icons never succeeded to win the title for Liverpool. I was very excited and happy for Liverpool when they won that unbelievable CL final, but you got to admit that this was a freak win...replay that match 100 times and Milan will always win it...In retrospect this win was not a good thing for the club it blinded everyone for the obvious shortcommings of the Liverpool team and the bad transfers Raffa did.
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I agree I think we should do what Valencia have done this summer and even Inter(getting rid of Ibra), sell the star players and bring in new players in the right positions. But we need a new manager for that as I don't trust hodgson with money we need someone who has vision, tactics and a winning mentality.

The likes of -

Sánchez Flores
Pellegrini
Rijkaard
Deschamps
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Dryzer said:
Totally disagree.

No one wanted Roy Hodgson. Would you have him at United? Of course not.

Just because he did well at Fulham doesnt mean jack when it comes to Liverpool. Rafa clearly underperformed last year but we finished seventh which was deemed unacceptable, so what makes you think were we are now is?

I couldnt give a crap how nice a man he is, or how pally and recommended he is by ferguson, Moyes and Bruce (although lets be honest, theyll be full of praise for him while bagging the points) he is not and never will be Liverpool material.

Hes been here since pre season, and i have not seen one shred of evidence, not one that this team will click under him. We could be quite negative under Rafa, but feck me, under Roy its a given. We only ever start playing when we are 2 down now as opposed to only 1 down under Rafa last season.

Hodgson is one of those specialist managers. Like O'Neill, Coppell ect who come in to a low to mid table side with no expectations and punch above their weight. They are not suited to a top class club with high expectations, whether you think Liverpool are average or not they are still Liverpool, a name synomanous with success around the globe.

And on the subject of players, i watched yesterdays game and had no clue where anyone was playing positionally. the players didnt know either, so whats Roy sending them out to do? this team is good enough - maybe not for winning the prem, maybe even not top four yet, this team is full of first team internationals, but they lack direction and confidence.

We need a manager, tactically adept and disciplined, someone with a commanding respect in the game, to come in and give direction.

hodgson definetely isnt that man.
Click to expand...

amen.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Dryzer said:
Totally disagree.

No one wanted Roy Hodgson. Would you have him at United? Of course not.

Just because he did well at Fulham doesnt mean jack when it comes to Liverpool. Rafa clearly underperformed last year but we finished seventh which was deemed unacceptable, so what makes you think were we are now is?

I couldnt give a crap how nice a man he is, or how pally and recommended he is by ferguson, Moyes and Bruce (although lets be honest, theyll be full of praise for him while bagging the points) he is not and never will be Liverpool material.

Hes been here since pre season, and i have not seen one shred of evidence, not one that this team will click under him. We could be quite negative under Rafa, but feck me, under Roy its a given. We only ever start playing when we are 2 down now as opposed to only 1 down under Rafa last season.

Hodgson is one of those specialist managers. Like O'Neill, Coppell ect who come in to a low to mid table side with no expectations and punch above their weight. They are not suited to a top class club with high expectations, whether you think Liverpool are average or not they are still Liverpool, a name synomanous with success around the globe.

And on the subject of players, i watched yesterdays game and had no clue where anyone was playing positionally. the players didnt know either, so whats Roy sending them out to do? this team is good enough - maybe not for winning the prem, maybe even not top four yet, this team is full of first team internationals, but they lack direction and confidence.

We need a manager, tactically adept and disciplined, someone with a commanding respect in the game, to come in and give direction.

hodgson definetely isnt that man.
Click to expand...

You kinda missed the point of what I said and just went on a rant about Hodgson there but I take it you think the players are totally absolved of any blame?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Rijkaard is terribly overrated.
I'm sorry, but Liverpoll will not attract a top coach unless he can buy top players and get rid of thedead wood in thecurrent squad.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Jumbo_ said:
You kinda missed the point of what I said and just went on a rant about Hodgson there but I take it you think the players are totally absolved of any blame?
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Sorry mate, im not having a go at all, just venting.

the players are culpable, however their confidence is at an all time low. In those circumstances you need a strong leader. SAF is a prime example. hes old school and wont let your lot wallow in pity. he's ingrained a winning never say die mentality into every player that has been successful at united, anyone else doesnt cut it they are out on their ear.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

gerd said:
Yeah, like Ferguson is doing a terrific job with Rooney right at this moment...oops...
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tbf that is one example (there are a few like Stam, van Nistelrooy, Beckham etc.) but on the whole you can't criticise Ferguson's man-management.
 
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