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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

thanks for the rawk explanation guys.

the first 2 are down to the fact he almost didn't play at all in the past 2 seasons. as for his back tracking that's not gonna improve... to be fair he shouldn't back track at all, as he should play way more upfront than he is playing right now.... and play a completely different game from what i saw in those first 2 matches as a starter.

for someone who saw alberto playing through the years, watching him playing right now in this system is like watching a great actor, a phenomenal, talented actor, who has always played "the bad guy role" impersonating the hero of the movie. he's actually managing to deal with the new situation (and with the absolute, unbelievable lack of movement of his teammates) in a pretty decent way, and even though he's been asked to do something completely different from what he can do, he's actually showing a very quick-adapting attitude and great determination.....
...but u just can't help but thinking "what a waste.... the movie would have been so much better if only they would have handed him the bad guy role".

as for his "misplaced passes", guys, i don't wanna sound like i'm patronizing him (as a matter of fact i repeatedly said i think he will disappoint in liverpool, afterall), but the 99,9% of those passes which didn't reach the target in his first 2 matches as a starter (which are the only ones i wached) weren't misplaced at all. the point is liverpool players right now are completely unaccustomed, unused to first touch passing and to vertical passing.
they almost act as if they think xabi were still there.... waiting for that horizontal "discharging pass"...they look like they were in trance or something..... completely unaware of each others movements, doing nothing to get rid of their assigned markers...
that easy, comfortable pass is never gonna come though.... at least not from alberto, coz that's just not him.
alberto is not the player who sets the tempo, who hands his teamates that nice, easy-to-get, velvety horizontal pass, who will give the fans that confortable feeling that "your team is in control".... that's not him.

he's not the engine of the car, he's the clutch. he is the one who breaks the tempo (not the one who sets the tempo), the one who, all of a sudden, changes the rpm. the game is going on smoothly along a specific rhythm, your opponents are getting accustomed to that rhythm...... and that's when aquilani gets the ball and fires a 10 meters first touch through ball which goes almost as fast as a shot...... and it's up to u to be there when that bullit arrives..... if u're not there, that's not a misplaced pass.... that pass was perfectly aimed... it was aimed to put u in front of the goalkeeper, while the opposite defenders ask themselves "what the hell just happened?
but if u're not there, if that pass was unexpected to u (as it was for the whole opponent's defensive line), then that's your fault, not albertos.

he's not the player u want to get your passing game "smooth".... he's not smooth, he's frenzy. he's not the one u should ask to set the tempo as he lives the game on a different tempo than his teammates....and that's most important to him as that's what makes him completely unpredictable. the regista is the one who gotta care about all his teammates movement, his duty is to "run the team" and to make sure the team runs smoothly. alberto doesn't care about this as he' not a regista. he lives the whole game "one play, one pass ahead of his teammates" (that's what i mean by "living the game on a different tempo") and he's completely focused, not on how the whole team is playing, not on how the current play is going, but on a single pass, a pass that might occur in 2, 3 seconds, or that might even not occur at all (if the opponents stop the play and get the ball before it arrives to him).
he doesn't care about anything else but that "window". he looks for that opening and when he sees it, he seizes it.
and it's up to his teammates to be ready for it. otherwise, he becomes an anonymous, pretty useless player.

and yeah, even if he would be playing in his proper role and if his teammates wouldn't dawdle around the pitch like zombies, he would still have a higher misplaced passes ratio than a player like xabi.
but then again, that's another proof of how different they are. alberto's passing game isn't aimed to make his teammates feel confortable; quite the opposite. his passing game is extremely demanding for his teammates, and that's just how it has to be in order to work.

also for the fans, his football can be quite "stressing". since he lives the whole game on an edge, a certain percentage of his plays (passes) will turn into a loss of possession, coz his teammates aren't on his same page of the script or cos he made a "miscalculation" (wich, when he's on form, happens seldom if ever). but, as a fan, u still feel those shivers down your spine, coz, as soon as he touches the ball, u know that play is gonna end with a loss of possession or a scoring chance. he's a "make it or break it" kinda player. unlike a regista, he always takes risky decisions and hardly goes for a flat play.
as soon as he gets the ball, u know that in about 3 seconds, u will be either cursing for the loss of possession or jumping on your seat, spitting your beer and screaming "holy shit, how did he even think that pass!".

so, as u can imagine, seeing him playing in such a different role, seeing him trying to "settle down" to a more flat kinda passing game is pretty sad (although he did much better than i expected).
sometimes, in those first 2 matches i saw, he even tried to play "his game" a couple of times, but his teammates are just on a different page (the only one who bothered to keep up with him was insua....with poor results.... but at least he tried).

and unfortunately i believe it will be much more likely to see him settling down to a more anonymous style of play, rather than seeing all his teammates "getting on his page".

but as i said earlier, i hope i'm wrong :))
Always a pleasure to read your posts dude.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

thank u guys :))
talking about teams attitude on the pitch, while serie a is becoming something different from what it used to be (with every team, even the weakests, try to display their own football), premier league is nowadays quite similar to what serie a was in the '90s.
the weakests teams, but also the mid-table teams will happily leave the initiative to the top club, they will let them free to dictate the script of the game, while they sit back.
they tend to display the midfield personnel and the defence in 2 parallel lines, in order to create some sort of a "spider web", very tough to penetrate.
they will just sit back, watch your players freaking out trying to figure out how to get to the box, and hit u on the counter, whenever they get the chance.

this tactical script makes the game extremely boring for the fans and extremely difficult for the top club. because it doesn't matter how good your players are.... when u have to deal with what seem to be 2 difensive lines (u wouldn't even call that a midfield line anymore as they just don't care about building any sort of plays), good luck finding your way to the opposite goalkeeper.
there's just one thing u can possibly do: catch them off guard, confuse them.
how u do that? here are a few simple suggestions; don't allow any of your players to hold the ball for more than 2, 3 touches (tops) and don't allow any of your players to stop moving, once they passed the ball.

get the ball - find a target in a very short time (3 ball touches tops) - pass - keep moving and find a different spot to make yourself a good target again.
that's the sequence. it all comes down to quick triangulations and off the ball movement. theese 2 expedients will allow u to keep those "2 defensive lines" moving continuously (in order to adjust their individual positioning to the ball movement and find an opening for a tackle). but since we're not talking about top players (their defenders aren't nestas or chiellinis and their defensive midfielders don't have the positioning of de rossi or cambiasso), they can't keep moving AND mantain the right distance between each others in the same time.
so, if u keep doing this, if u keep having them moving, trying to follow the ball(with quick and simple triangulations or one-twos), that spider web is gonna collapse. u will wear your opponents out with that endless network of short first\second touch passes.... u will stress them both fisically (by having them following a ball wich moves continuously) and mentally (not having the ball possession for a long time will make them loose their coolness).... and that's how u will find a breach in that spider web.
and that's when a player like aquilani comes into play.

just take a look at how aquilani's former team used to take advantage of this. in this play dinamo players are doing exactly what i said earlier....... there are 8 dinamo players in their own midfield.... basically there's no midfield at all, it's like facing 2 defensive lines... and that's how roma goes through that spider web:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8Rfc7ktVBk
at first glance this looks like an awesome play.... but if u pay attention, it's not like roma players are doing anything fancy. it's a very simple, very basic network of short first\second touch passes. it's not something that requires particular skills (well actually it does, but sure with benayoun, gerrard, aquilani and torres, u don't lack of skilled players)....... but it's something that requires practice, lots of practice. don't touch the ball more than twice, don't stop after u pass the ball, have the fullbacks following the play as it unfolds until the opposite box.......this is something u get used to with practice..... it becomes natural

if u pay attention, there are always at least 2 dinamo players on pressure on the ball carrier..... but they just cant get that ball as the passing game is just too quick and they don't have the time to find the right positioning to perform a tackle. and the more they follow the ball, trying to put more and more pressure on roma players, the more they get tired and loose coolness.
at some point, when aquilani performs that through ball on the sideline for tonetto, dinamo players are completely out of position; there's nobody covering tonetto and the box is completely empty.
that's how u catch off guard an opponent which parks the bus in front of the box.

it's nothing fancy really (although the result is pretty impressive). but to get to this point, you must get your players into a specific state of mind: don't hold the ball, keep it on the ground, and, most important, keep moving, once u got rid of the ball with a pass.
that's where liverpoool players fail. and that's why a player like aquilani, regardless where u line him up (as a central midfielder or as an advanced midfiender) becomes pretty useless in this system. he needs his teammates to move around him, in order to play his game.

in the 2 first games aquilani played as a starter i noticed a pattern that used to happen pretty often. let me make an example:
92674230.png

insua is going along the sideline with the ball, before he reaches his marker he passes the ball to aquilani. at this point, that's what should happen. in order to go through that spider web, aquilani's first instinct will be to go for a first touch through ball deep along the sideline. insua's marker will concentrate on the ball movement as soon as emliano passes it to aquilani, so insua could take advantage of those 2 seconds to loose his marker with a quick acceleration and offer himself as a target for that through ball.
this is what should happen...... but what actually happens instead?
ok2h.png

once insua gets rid of the ball, he stops. he doesn't follow the play. aquilani already knew what to do with that ball even before he got it: going for that deep through ball. but as soon as he notice insua is not moving, he's got to kill that instinct and look around for a new target. that means he will have to hold the ball for more time than he expected to.
since insua stopped following the play, his marker, along with one of the central midfielders, goes on pressure over aquilani, while the other central midfielder tracks back in coverage to intercept a direct pass to gerrard, torres or kuyt.
and here u go. aquilani has no other options than going for an horizontal flat pass, wich will give even more time to the opponents to cover their own midfield...... and he probably won't even have the time to perform that useless side-pass, as in a few seconds he will have 2 players over him.

that's the biggets issue with liverpool's offensive game right now.... and that's probably also the reason why liverpool has much more troubles facing weaker opponents. because, unlike man utd, chelsea or arsenal, the other teams don't feel the urge to impose their script to the game. top teams tend to force the opponent to play "their game". that means trying to "produce some football" but it also means loosing something in terms of field coverage. english mid class and low class teams instead don't care about creating football. they rather let the opponent choose the script of the game and focus on coverage. they occupy their own side of the field by leaving the fullbacks and both the central midfielders deep in their own territory (creating that spider web) and try to hit u on the counter.
and since liverpool passing game is quite slow, and the off the ball movement is non-existant, the reds just can't find their way through that wall.

sorry for the long post guys :P
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Looks good Ben, will read it later as Im watching the "match", more like a throw-in contest.

Also I would place a bet that pool player gets sent off today, this ref has something against liverpool. Seeing lucas get fouled in the area and get a card with the ref looking like he couldnt do it quick enough.

Will be a shite game aswell, seeing as we are playing with 9 defensive players and Ngog!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Great post Ben, and today's match has been an excellent show of that tactic. The moment liverpool play short passes (aurelio, kuyt, ngog, lucas, degen) we get into the area and look somewhat dangerous. The passes are simple, easy to control and the players don't even have to have a huge amount of movement to regain possesion, as long as they move within a certain distance they can keep possesion reasonbly well. And someone must have had a word with carra because most of his passes have been low and into the widechannel for degen/ngog to run onto. We are lacking any kind of quality upfront for the final ball though.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Brilliant post Lo Zio, That Roma goal is very simple but its also brilliant to watch.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

WTF !!! WHY ISN'T CARRAGHER GUARDING THE POST!??! Or is it Insua that I should blame??
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Fantastic posts Ben, very insightful. Will post them on RAWK. People would be very interested in this sort of stuff.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Can someone explain me why Aquilani played the last 5 minutes. Im not understunding Rafa at all.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I've never seen such a stonewall penalty not only refused but the player who was fouled then get booked for diving.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Yeah I noticed that.

He clearly knows that he holds the cards and that the owners are unlikely to sack him due to the financial constraints. This puts him in a very powerful position and the performances might not pick up as Rafa's got a job regardless of how you perform.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

What do you mean? He basically has an excuse that you can't hold against him?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Well if a manager knows his neck is on the line he is gonna bust a gut to change all he can and get the team performing again. Rafa is pretty much safe until the summer even if Liverpool lose every game between now and the end of the season so what motivation has he got to get the team going again?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

The offer of a good job.....

Look at Alonso, he was "cruising" for two seasons till Benitez wanted to get rid of him for Barry. Then he worked his arse off and got the transfer he wanted. Being unsuccesfull isn't the mentality of these people, they want to win and be succesfull at all costs.

As for getting the team up for it, I have no idea, after 5 years of the same kind of management I'm not sure it can still work. Especially with his approach. I talked about this before, but I think that's the extra quality both Wenger and Fergie have in how they treat their players. And why they can continue to be succesfull over a long period. They can make it personal and are more father figures.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I'm quite surprised not one English team has shown interest in the Angolan striker Flavio Amado. Every time I've seen him play he scores and he's extremely lethal with his head. He's not the biggest player, true, but his goal scoring record is impressive. As a United fan, I'd loved to have him as back-up, but we have Owen, Berba, Mame.

Why not go for him? Plus he's been playing for Al-Ahli club for about 4 seasons so he's pretty used to the red color ;)

Also, He's pretty used to being a winner. That should be taken into consideration.

Flávio Amado - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Flag_of_Angola.svg" class="image"><img alt="Flag of Angola" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/Flag_of_Angola.svg/50px-Flag_of_Angola.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/9/9d/Flag_of_Angola.svg/50px-Flag_of_Angola.svg.png
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

I'm quite surprised not one English team has shown interest in the Angolan striker Flavio Amado. Every time I've seen him play he scores and he's extremely lethal with his head. He's not the biggest player, true, but his goal scoring record is impressive. As a United fan, I'd loved to have him as back-up, but we have Owen, Berba, Mame.

Why not go for him? Plus he's been playing for Al-Ahli club for about 4 seasons so he's pretty used to the red color ;)

Also, He's pretty used to being a winner. That should be taken into consideration.

Flávio Amado - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't tell if this is a sarcastic post or not Lami.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Kenwyne Jones coming in on loan and is due for a medical. Not sure why Sunderland would let a sought after player like Jones go out on loan but we'll see.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

That's an interesting one. Unexpected. Well to me that is. Thought he'd be looking for a spanish-speaking fella. But, why Kenwyne?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Well if a manager knows his neck is on the line he is gonna bust a gut to change all he can and get the team performing again. Rafa is pretty much safe until the summer even if Liverpool lose every game between now and the end of the season so what motivation has he got to get the team going again?

not destroying his reputation seems a pretty good motivation to me. coaching business is weird. it's a world where a mediocre coach can be seen as a genious just coz he picked the right job offers at the right time, while an actual good coach can see his reputation destroyed coz of a bad experience or coz of a sequence of bad breaks.

i don't think rafa's motivation is an issue. i believe he badly wants to drag liverpool out of that big dig the reds threw themselves into.....
but at some point, u gotta start asking yourself if he's the right man for the job.
maybe it's not about motivations... maybe he just isn't the right man to change things anymore.

i'm not questioning rafa's skills. i consider him a great manager. but sometimes that's not enough. being a great manager doesn't necessarily means u will defeinitely deliver in any circumstances. and this season, for the very first time, i started thinking if it wouldn't be a good choice to "call it a night", and look for someone else to begin a new project.
mind u, i'm not saying that i want rafa out, i'm just saying that, for the first time in years, i began to consider this option.

having said that, rafa is not liverpool's main issue (maybe he's not even "an issue"). some of the things that went wrong in the last few years were just out of his control..... and we also have to take into account that this was supposed to be a tough season for liverpool from the very beginning... having to deal with a system change is no easy feat and it's something that takes time and lots of effort..... but looking at some of rafa's decisions, i'm starting to question his efforts.

btw i'm just thinking out loud here, as i'm not really sure what's best for liverpool right now.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

That's an interesting one. Unexpected. Well to me that is. Thought he'd be looking for a spanish-speaking fella. But, why Kenwyne?

Maybe the welsh accent confused him.

Not sure what to think about this, I mean why would Sunderland let him go if he is as good as the hype? And is he good? Guess someone a bit stronger then Ngog will help.
 
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