ITALY thread

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Congratulations Italy. The 'football' team won, let alone the best team. Quite simply men against boys.

I'm embarrassed to be English after watching that. Any deluded English fan who refers to any of our players as "world class" needs to reassess what world class is. We couldn't even string a few simple passes together and hold the ball. So many questions have to be asked of how we coach our players from a young age and whether the status of the Premier League is really good for English football.

Go and beat Germany now. Italy are my team for the rest of the tournament.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Congrats to Italy, very much deserving winners and clearly on a much higher level.

Italy have definitely improved tenfold since the World Cup (which was obvious from the first game) and the only thing IMO missing from this side is a clinical CF like Rossi unfortunately and if not him Di Natale should definitely start.

Italy will get chances against Germany, I just doubt they'll convert them.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Jamezinho said:
So many questions have to be asked of how we coach our players from a young age and whether the status of the Premier League is really good for English football.
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That analysis is made (at least since i'm an evo-web member) after each big international tournament. Yet nothing seems to change.
 
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Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Today's Gazzetta front page ties in nicely with Alonso's Ferrari win:

prima_pagina_grande.jpg
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

It's a bit unfair that Germany has two days more rest.

Nonetheless I think Italy can win, having seen Italy against Spain which was imho the best match in this euro-tournament yet, I have high hopes for Italy.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

gerd said:
That analysis is made (at least since i'm an evo-web member) after each big international tournament. Yet nothing seems to change.
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Because once the Premier League gets going again in a couple of months everything is forgotten and the likes of Gerrard, Rooney, Cole etc...return to being "world class" in the eyes of English fans and media.

Yes, we live in a deluded Premier League bubble in this country and the state of the national team is a can that keeps getting kicked down the road every two years. The powers that be at the FA need to grow a pair and make the required changes from grass roots level of English football. They also need to lay down the law with the Premier League that they have a responsibility towards the development of English players and the national team, and worry less about attracting fans in China with a glossy product of a league.

/rant.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

yep, i see your point, jamezinho. i think u've done an absolutely amazing job promoting premier league as a great product all over the world (it actually is a great product, although a bit "glossy"... then again, at least u don't have to deal with major scandals every 5 years like serie a :P )... but yeah the growth process of youngsters is something the federation should be looking into. the germans have done an amazing job in this department over the last 10 years, and i think they could be a good example for the fa to study and try to replicate.

however.....
jamezinho said:
I'm embarrassed to be English after watching that
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:CONFUSE: whoa, no need for that, mate! it was just a meaningless football game, it's nothing serious... plus the only thing we share with our national teams players is that we happened to be born in the same country. we have no part in their victories, nor in their losses, so there's nothing we should be ashamed of (nor proud of).
it's just a game, and besides, u made it to the quarter-finals, wich is not exactly a shameful result, if u ask me. 4 years ago italy made it to quarter-finals too (spain beated us on penalties aswell) and i remember i was actually moderately happy with that.:))

henrys hand said:
Nonetheless I think Italy can win, having seen Italy against Spain which was imho the best match in this euro-tournament yet, I have high hopes for Italy.
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i'm not as optimist as u are. if we were in the same phisical shape we were 2 weeks ago (when we faced spain), then yeah, i'd say we might have a chance to beat them (although the germans would still remain favourites), but after yesterday's game, there's no way our players are gonna recover on time.
i honestly can't even picture us putting up a fight against germany right now....
but hey who knows, we've always been germany's kryptonite... maybe our players will miraculously get back in shape in time for the match..... or perhaps the germans' bus will get a flat tyre on its way to the stadium and we will win the match by forfeit..... yeah that could happen :THINK:
:P
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Correct Lo Zio, English football should look to emulate the Bundesliga model and German football in general. Forget the money and foreign investment and start thinking about English players and English fans. OK, German clubs haven't had much success in Europe recently, but they have a very healthy, competitive and well attended league which I'm envious of, not to mention the string of talented young players coming through.

I'm not embarrassed to be English, but I am deeply embarrassed by English football and the state it finds itself in. When much smaller nations such as Croatia can consistently produce talented, technical players it makes me wonder why we can't do the same with the resources we have in England.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

We have quite an Italian community in Watford of emigres who came here in the fifties and I celebrated with them, cheering as that West Ham reject no hoper Diamanti struck the final penalty and shared words of congratulation.

I have always had a low opinion of the England team as our representatives on the world stage:
1.technical ability
2.off the field antics

The DFB works with the clubs in Germany. They saw their national side in trouble in 1998 reformed the whole coaching process for kids, talent identification and training and it is bearing fruit although it is still more mechanical than the street flair of players from Brazil and Argentina.

Here there is no way the Premiership and Scudamore will work with the FA.

The FA is a shambles in all respects from the Wembley fiasco to ownership of clubs to letting the Premier League run roughshod over the rest of the pyramid.

Their new idea is for clubs in the PL to steal the best players from clubs down the pyramid's academies.

Yes that is it. And it's been a big fat sucess so far. Bostock is one example. It certainly has improved bench warming skills.

These kids are overpaid with no hunger and told they are world beaters when they are clearly not. The emphasis is still on pace and power over everything else.

It will take a decade to sort out but the EPL circus seems to be more important. Fans of clubs in the EPL that are established do not even care about the national side.

I don't really either as an Argentina supporter.

Anyway lo zio take heart from 1970 and 2006. Italy are always a very good tournament team. My dad has never liked the Italian national football ide but even he enjoyed Prandelli's style, even questioning 'are you sure Prandelli is Italian ?'. ;)
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

What Ben said about Montolivo, EXACTLY! :WORSHIP:

Nobody hates this guy. He's not the type of guy anyone hates as he's rather 'harmless'. Everyone's just disappointed and you can always bet on his lack of courage and confidence. That's why he'll never fulfil his potential and he's 27. it's not like he's some youngster still.

Not sure what Milanista meant about Nocerino being UNUSUALLY sharp either. I didn't get that? You were being sarcastic?

lo zio said:
our lack of coolness in front of the goal is now beyond ridiculous. cassano is the shadow of the player he was when he stopped playing last winter. he was invisible yesterday. marchisio had more shots on goal in this tournament than cassano. and marchisio is a midfielder, who has to cover 20 meters before even getting to the box..... and he's also being asked by prandelli to contain his runs...... and he's also playing off position..... and yet he was more of a scoring threat than cassano (who is a forward). this is quite simply not acceptable, especially when u think we have the likes of di natale and giovinco on the bench.

and the same goes for balotelli. i absolutely love what he's doing. his commitment, his hardwork... it's almost moving, really. but at the end of the day, u just have to score. he's done all the right things, all the right movements, he's always at the right place in the right time, he always puts himself in the position to score a goal, and credit to him for that...... but u just CANNOT miss so many sitters..... we just can't afford to waste so many clear chances.
i like mario, i really do. and i really appreciate what he's doing for the team...... but he's just unable to keep his cool whenever he's in front of the goal and that makes him a liability. so either he gets his head back into the game right now or we should drop him. OR (and that would be my call) we pair him up with di natale.
let me ask u guys one thing.... specifically to those of u who followed roma this season. is there ANYONE among u who doesn't believe borini would have scored at least 2 goals yesterday, had he been playing instead of balotelli? and what about di natale?
mario is 21 years old and he's an amazing player for his age. i am confident that by the time he's 26, he'll be a world class striker. an absolute beast, with the phisical strenght of mario gomez and a better technique than fernando torres in his prime...... but today, di natale should be picked ahead of him... or at least he should be lined up with him. we're already missing pazzini and rossi (who would be our starters upfront)... we can't afford to keep di natale on the bench.
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AMEN brother! I'm glad somebody gets what I was trying to say.

People said I was being too harsh on Balotelli but what you said is exactly what I meant. He did a lot of things right, kept his cool (didn't even get booked) and worked hard. But that's not ENOUGH, is it? At the end of the day, a striker is there first and foremost to convert chances and score goals. He failed at that BIG TIME yesterday missing numerous great chances. We're not talking about half chances here. We're talking about one from nearly 6 yards out which Hart saved and rebound fell to Montolivo who also hit it over the bar. We're talking about one-on-one where a crap offside trap by England's been broken by the genius Pirlo but he hesitates and old slow John Terry catches up to him and then he tries a silly chip which means no goal again.

De Rossi missed a GREAT chance early in game as well.

My point was exactly what you said. Italy's midfield especially Pirlo created a lot of chances, but Cassano and Balotelli were wasteful.

And when you deadly finishers like Di Natale and Borini on the bench, it just makes you scratch your head.

Di Natale's been scoring fun for years in Italy and at 34, THIS is the time to play him! Mario WILL get a lot better in future and probably become one of the world's best. But at this moment, if there's a 1-on-1 and you need someone to put it away with the hopes of the entire nation on it, who do you trust more? The experienced veteran pro who's been scoring like 30 goals in consecutive seasons? Or the 21 year old kid who's scored 13 goals in ONE season and that was his BESt season.

Balotelli is far from the finished article and needs to make a lot of improvements. At the MOMENT, there's no doubt Di Natale's more clinical and he's even shown that in THIS tourney when he's had the chance to play.

I'm not saying, Toto or Borini would've scored all those chances. As REview correctly said, that'd be pure speculation. But I'm saying, based on what we know of them, their past, their record, and even Toto's performances in Euro 2012, I'm willnig to bet he would've scored at least ONE of those great chances if not two.

And then Italy wouldn't have had to play for 120 minutes and potentially be eliminated by a far inferior team. Penalties can be cruel. Just ask Bayern. And yesterday Italy dominated England even far more than Barca/Bayern dominated Chelsea. And yet they almost gave them a get out of jail free card.

Cassano was even worse than Mario for me because he wasn't just wasteful, he was lazy and out of shape and misplacing passes. You bring a young hungry professional like Giovinco in, his blistering acceleration, and pair him up with someone like Borini or Di Natale and that can cause havoc! Not to mention they're much more 'unknown' quantities than guys like Balotelli that Lescott and Joe Hart train with every day and Terry has played against many times.

Anyway, I've money on Germany so at this point, this has all played to my hands. Italy is now tired and somewhat injured after 120 minutes instead of an easy win over 90 mins and if Prandelli chooses to play Mario and Cassano up front again, I'd say Germany's chances of victory are even better.

I just have a lot of Italian friends and so I felt their pain and frustration, otherwise this is all good for me financially and personally anyway. :)
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

The problem as I saw it with Balotelli is that his body is just too big and tanky. A striker needs to be leaner so he can be much more swift and moveable. But Balotelli has the body of a defender.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

PLF said:
What Ben said about Montolivo, EXACTLY! :WORSHIP:

Nobody hates this guy. He's not the type of guy anyone hates as he's rather 'harmless'. Everyone's just disappointed and you can always bet on his lack of courage and confidence. That's why he'll never fulfil his potential and he's 27. it's not like he's some youngster still.
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To be honest, I think Montolivo has peaked already, but is at a higher level than Aquilani. I fear Aquilani has hit his limit and has run out of luck in his career. The Liverpool move was meant to be the one, but it seems to have worked against him.

I think we're all being harsh on Montolivo, even me. I think he's a pussy, but a pussy that can get the job done.

Not sure what Milanista meant about Nocerino being UNUSUALLY sharp either. I didn't get that? You were being sarcastic?
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I haven't seen Nocerino so up for beating a man 1v1 so much before. Last night it was if Nocerino had turned into Cassano (the good one) - the way he was 'slaloming' past Ashley Cole! I love Nocerino!


People said I was being too harsh on Balotelli but what you said is exactly what I meant. He did a lot of things right, kept his cool (didn't even get booked) and worked hard. But that's not ENOUGH, is it? At the end of the day, a striker is there first and foremost to convert chances and score goals. He failed at that BIG TIME yesterday missing numerous great chances. We're not talking about half chances here. We're talking about one from nearly 6 yards out which Hart saved and rebound fell to Montolivo who also hit it over the bar. We're talking about one-on-one where a crap offside trap by England's been broken by the genius Pirlo but he hesitates and old slow John Terry catches up to him and then he tries a silly chip which means no goal again.
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I'm with you that he should be scoring, but I think he should still start. I think his contribution to the team is still important - especially in the last few games where he drops deep to help the midfield out. The chance where Diamanti set Nocerino up for the goal was partly down to Balotelli's ability to hold out against 2 defenders and spread the game out by sending it through to Diamanti.

imo Cassano shouldn't have started, or should've at least come off at half time. Credit to the man for almost dying and already showing glimpses of skill within 3 months time, but he's clearly not fit. I can see that Prandelli is playing him because Cassano is unpredictable - he won't run, but one of his plays will tear open a whole defence... a bit like the Ronaldinho-Milan days. Offers nothing but that moment of magic.

Cassano was even worse than Mario for me because he wasn't just wasteful, he was lazy and out of shape and misplacing passes. You bring a young hungry professional like Giovinco in, his blistering acceleration, and pair him up with someone like Borini or Di Natale and that can cause havoc! Not to mention they're much more 'unknown' quantities than guys like Balotelli that Lescott and Joe Hart train with every day and Terry has played against many times.
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I would've brought Toto on for Cassano - I think Giovinco would've been a huge gamble. His pace might've been too much for England, but in the same time, England's 66 defenders might also be too much for Giovinco to break through as they're quite physical - I saw this as too much of a gamble to Prandelli opted for Diamond. Diamond is capable of shooting, crosses, set pieces and dribbling - imo it was a good choice as he had a solid contribution.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

I really liked the Diamanti substitution. I'll in fact be quite happy to see him instead of Cassano in next game.

I didn't at all mean, I didn't want Alessandro in there. I just meant Cassano needed to be subbed and preferably at Half time. Be it for Diamanti, Giovinco or Di Natale. Anyone would do better than him.

So far he's done one good thing this tournament and that's the header against Ireland which took a lot of pressure off Italy.

Diamanti is not only a skilful player with a deadly left-foot but full of guts, heart, determination and running, so I've no problem seeing him on the pitch whatsoever. :)
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Milanista said:
I haven't seen Nocerino so up for beating a man 1v1 so much before. Last night it was if Nocerino had turned into Cassano (the good one) - the way he was 'slaloming' past Ashley Cole! I love Nocerino!
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oh, i see your point now. i misunderstood your comment the first time and i'm quite touchy about the awesomeness of nocerino :P
milanista said:
To be honest, I think Montolivo has peaked already, but is at a higher level than Aquilani. I fear Aquilani has hit his limit and has run out of luck in his career. The Liverpool move was meant to be the one, but it seems to have worked against him.

I think we're all being harsh on Montolivo, even me. I think he's a pussy, but a pussy that can get the job done.
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it all depends by your expectations. imo for a player with montolivo's skills, "getting the job done" means playing like he did against england. anything less that that is a disappointing performance.
anyway i agree with u that montolivo has probably reached his peak and we won't see much improvement from him. however this season is gonna be an important test for him, as for the 1st time he'll be playing in a top team. let's see if that helps him step up his game (like he did against england).
as for aquilani, i don't even know what to make of him anymore honestly. he strikes me like some sort of pato. a very skillfull player, with a gutsy mentality, but also very unlucky on the injury department.
PLF said:
Anyway, I've money on Germany so at this point, this has all played to my hands. Italy is now tired and somewhat injured after 120 minutes instead of an easy win over 90 mins and if Prandelli chooses to play Mario and Cassano up front again, I'd say Germany's chances of victory are even better.

I just have a lot of Italian friends and so I felt their pain and frustration, otherwise this is all good for me financially and personally anyway.
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you're making money on our miseries... the least u could do is sympathise with your italian friends... and us :P
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

PLF, who says that Di Natale and Borini would have done better than Balotelli. They are deadly strikers? Even Torres was once considered a deadly striker, in football you are as good as the next match...

I can't deny that Mario was wastefull, but IMO he plays a very good tournament and i have a feeling that Prandelli has learned him a thin or two. Hell, i'm beginning to think Prandelli should be an ideal coach for Man City.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

we're not stating facts here, Gerd, we're merely expressing opinions. and opinions can only be based on history (precedent events).
what u say about players being only as good as their next performance is correct.... but if we had consider that before expressing our opinions, then we couldn't form an opinion on anything, as none of us has the ability to foresee the future.

i also like what balotelli has done so far, but the cold hard truth is that u need to make the most of your chances. cassano and balotelli haven't so far. i'm ok with balotelli in the starting formation, as, goals apart, he does a lot for the team..... but balotelli AND cassano? i don't like that. we need a CF to convert our scoring chances into goals... and based on what we saw this season, di natale, borini (and even giovinco, who isn't a CF) give us much more guarrantees than cassano and balotelli in that department.

oh, and about prandelli... he'd be an ideal coach for any team on the planet. :COOL:

edit:
almost forgot to ask u guys a question. if chiellini would be able to recover in time for tomorrow (wich might be a possibility), and assuming we'll mantain the same shape (back 4) which cb would u leave on the bench?
coz honestly i really don't what i would do. bonucci has been absolutely flawless so far... infact he's been so good that i'd drop one between barzagli and chiellini..... but who of the two??? :THINK:
who would u drop?
 
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Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

There are reports that Chiellini might start on the left and Balzaretti on the right if Abate isn't cleared.

I think it is too risky to start all of Chiellini, Abate, and De Rossi. With the injuries they have, they might easily get injured again during the game so I am all for dropping Abate maybe.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Would love a Portugal vs Italy final, have huge respect for you guys. :D Forza azzurri!!
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

@Ben, yeah sorry, I put $200 on Germany awhile back and so I'm afraid I'll be cheering for the Germans tomorrow. :P

If it's any consolation, I still love Italy, Prandelli, Buffon, Pirlo, De Rossi and many of your players! :D I just wish them very little success tomorrow. :P

In regards to your question about inclusion of Chiellini, I was thinking the same thing the other day. It's really tough!

To be honest, I wouldn't sacrifice Bonucci or Barzagli. They've been great and shouldn't go out just because a guy came back from injury as much as I love Giorgio and you know I've always sang his praises in Serie A thread and think he's just a BEAST!

I'd take a fully fit and match practiced Bonucci over a guy just coming back from an injury. He's likely to be still carrying it to a small extent and not be 100% or at least match sharp.

What I WOULD do is I would play him as left-back against Germany (and only against Germany, other teams I'd play Balzaretti) as guys like Marco Reus will be deadly down the right nad cut inside and create/score goals. As great as Balzaretti is, from a DEFENSIVE point of view, I don't think anyone will argue that Chiellini is better.

I'd play Abate/Maggio on Right, keep Bonucci and Barzagli in middle and play Chiellini as LB IF Italy plays with a back 4 again.

gerd said:
PLF, who says that Di Natale and Borini would have done better than Balotelli. They are deadly strikers? Even Torres was once considered a deadly striker, in football you are as good as the next match...
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That makes no sense Gerd.

I know what you're trying to say. That any player might put on a great performance next game. That's true. But if that was something to adhere to, it would defeat all purpose of performance evaluations and considerations for any coach to make. Because all his players are apparently 'equally' likely to perform NEXT game.

Like Ben said, none of us can see the future. So as responsible, intelligent managers, all we CAN do is decide which players to select for which games based on their past. Based on history and more importantly based on RECENT history and FACTS. That's why the Torres argument is also invalid.

Being 'once' considered a deadly forward means nothing. Inzaghi was 'once' a deadly striker, should Italy line him up tomorrow? NO! What DOES matter is RECENT history.

When we talk about someone like Di Natale's past 4 seasons at the highest level in Serie A and his goals/games ratio and his performances for Italian NT, then we can see that he's more likely to be a threat than most others.

This doesn't mean, he WOULD have for sure scored the many chances Mario missed. But judging by past, we can say he probably would've taken at least one!

So you see, many say that in Football, you're only as good as your LAST match, not NEXT game. And THAT I agree with.

After all, that's all we have to judge you by.

And while Cassano and Mario were wasteful last game, Di Natale has taken his chances when playing for Italy even in THIS tournament.
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

By the way, I didn't know this but apparently Riccardo Montolivo is half German!
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Maggio is suspended PLF from an Ashley Young dive and Abate is probably injured.

And yeah Montolivo is German from his mother and is pretty attached to the country as he said he speaks German with his mother since he was a kid. He also has the German flag on his boots. Very special game for him.

Montolivo_2D00_Pred_2D00_Germany_2D00_Img3.jpg
 
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Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Wow, that sucks!

Those two are both quality so I don't mind if one of them misses because you can replace him with the other but to have both out is a problem!

Not sure how Balzaretti would do on right hand side but he seems the best option there suddenly!
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Best of luck to the boys in blue. A repeat of 2006 would be nice. :COOL:
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

The Maggio ban after a card for a dive is a fine example of a case where UEFA could bring justic post factum...but UEFA being UEFA...

PLF and Ben, i get your point. But one does not know that Balotelli might score an hattrick against Germany. You are both rigt about Balotelli and Cassano....
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Why do ppl underestimate the Italians ?! I said they play intelligent football they defend, and attack cautiously and now adapting to counter attack.

Italy underdogs my arse!

MARIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !

my views and opinion is from the 1st half, don`t make me look foolish now, Italy :LOL:
 
Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Un’Italia da 7"

Great 1st half from Mario and Cassano!! Superb! Couldn't have done much better!

Italy have had 2 chances and Balotteli has taken both very well!

Montolivo playing well so far too though he hesitated a bit in the one chance he had and didn't pull trigger waiting too long. Other than that they've all played well.
 
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