FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

[Anth James]

I don't really know which thread to put this as it's more of an observation than anything else, but I think maybe @Chuny wrote a comment ages ago in one of the FIFA threads about the way the players kick the ball on FIFA being pretty terrible, especially compared to PES. It's very true, there's very little back lift to passing on FIFA, it's all quite instant and it takes away satisfaction when passing often.

I've noticed there's one animation on FIFA where this isn't the case - and it's so much more satisfying to play a pass using that particular animation compared to all of the others. If you hold the trigger down and play a through ball, in the right context you'll see a much more realistic back lift and the pass just 'feels' like it's hit properly. I really hope going into the next gen of FIFA they fix this - it really is minor but would make a big difference.

 

[Hatrickhero]

I don't really know which thread to put this as it's more of an observation than anything else, but I think maybe @Chuny wrote a comment ages ago in one of the FIFA threads about the way the players kick the ball on FIFA being pretty terrible, especially compared to PES. It's very true, there's very little back lift to passing on FIFA, it's all quite instant and it takes away satisfaction when passing often.

I've noticed there's one animation on FIFA where this isn't the case - and it's so much more satisfying to play a pass using that particular animation compared to all of the others. If you hold the trigger down and play a through ball, in the right context you'll see a much more realistic back lift and the pass just 'feels' like it's hit properly. I really hope going into the next gen of FIFA they fix this - it really is minor but would make a big difference.

agree on that, although playing with matt10 sliders on fifa 19 felt kinda good, in fact the closest it gets to pes feel

 

[Anth James]

agree on that, although playing with matt10 sliders on fifa 19 felt kinda good, in fact the closest it gets to pes feel

Don’t get me wrong I enjoy many FIFA titles a lot, it’s just an aspect they’ve never really got right and seeing that particular animation in a FIFA game showed me how it’s supposed to look.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

 

[Hatrickhero]

i don t know how anyone can defend this game when that CPU cheating in Master league PES 2021 on Superstar difficulty, i try to convince my self to play the game but then again, i enter master league barcelona vs real madrid, and suddenly luka jovic is better than Lewandovski with dribbling and long range shots, and asensio is better than messi... it is really not a good game on superstar difficulty

 

[Dennis_87]

Well i play with Newcastle on Superstar and after 10 games i'm in 4th place which is quite good for a team like this and i don't see any crazy cheating..My main problem is that the teams who have Long Ball tactics are spamming long balls too much and it becomes too predictable.It's not even that it works for them and they score against me all the time like this or anything..it's just that it becomes boring to see the same pattern over and over again instead of trying to mix it up a bit.They have to fix this shit for next gen version and bring more variety instead of strictly Short Pass or strictly Long Pass..Better introduce player instructions and tactics for every player or something and get rid of team tactics if they can't make it work more fluidly and it stays so strict and one sided..

 

[Anth James]

Well i play with Newcastle on Superstar and after 10 games i'm in 4th place which is quite good for a team like this and i don't see any crazy cheating..My main problem is that the teams who have Long Ball tactics are spamming long balls too much and it becomes too predictable.It's not even that it works for them and they score against me all the time like this or anything..it's just that it becomes boring to see the same pattern over and over again instead of trying to mix it up a bit.They have to fix this shit for next gen version and bring more variety instead of strictly Short Pass or strictly Long Pass..Better introduce player instructions and tactics for every player or something and get rid of team tactics if they can't make it work more fluidly and it stays so strict and one sided..

Yeah it’s a joke that for 2021 the variety level is about a 3/10. It’s an enormous part of the experience and for it to have regressed so much in modern times is unacceptable.

 

[Hatrickhero]

Well i play with Newcastle on Superstar and after 10 games i'm in 4th place which is quite good for a team like this and i don't see any crazy cheating..My main problem is that the teams who have Long Ball tactics are spamming long balls too much and it becomes too predictable.It's not even that it works for them and they score against me all the time like this or anything..it's just that it becomes boring to see the same pattern over and over again instead of trying to mix it up a bit.They have to fix this shit for next gen version and bring more variety instead of strictly Short Pass or strictly Long Pass..Better introduce player instructions and tactics for every player or something and get rid of team tactics if they can't make it work more fluidly and it stays so strict and one sided..

I agree this needs to be fixed urgently in the next version, on the other hand i am.trying to continue my second season with barcelona on superstar difficulty to see if by third season this cpu cheating will be.gone and if the game will.make more sense when playing the top teams, just lost 4-0 to real madrid because simply i couldn t take the ball of em in the final.third, i press and press the buttons but still their players have the best physicality in history , barging into the area and holding shielding the ball.like.crazy.. i will try to keep my calm in order not.to break the xbox 360 controller im.using..

 

[Chris Davies]

Wasn't sure where to post this, but I really wanted to post it, and a FIFA-related thread (whilst being a non-specific FIFA) seemed like the right place.

How mainstream are microtransactions now? How far can companies push them? Turns out there are new ways discovered all the time.



If that's not proof that microtransactions are pure evil, I don't know what is...

More here: https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/28/22351901/bmw-high-beam-assist-assistant-dlc-paid-update-ota

 

[rojofa]

I guess not many BMW owners bought the turn signal DLC either .

 

[Choke]

As for me I'm a diehard PES boy. By the way I'm a footballer myself. So i know what to look for in terms of realistic gameplay. Honestly i don't play FIFA, i only watch my family and friends playing. I don't like their gameplay at all. As a footballer i see FIFA's gameplay more of game-wise than reality. And that's what i like the most about PES, every year they focus more on improving their gameplay to look as realistic as possible. And i will say without doubt they are on top in that aspect. But as for graphics, FIFA has been winning all the time.

So for me here are the major determinants to use in contrasting between PES and FIFA;

Realistic gameplay - PES
Realistic body movement - PES
Graphics - FIFA

 

[Hatrickhero]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ITR2yZUvW_0
My basic complaint about ai awareness and cpu cheating/ overpowering...it just rages me

 

[Chris Davies]

On the subject of microtransactions... Again.

BBC News: Multi-university study shows "robust link" between loot boxes and gambling addiction in children

WHO'DA THUNK IT?! Fucking everyone. That's who.

(They don't actually say "gambling addiction", they say "problem gambling", which is a kop out.)

The time has come. Ban this shit. Particularly in football games aggressively marketed towards children (and don't let "card pack" be classed as different from a "loot box"). The evidence is mounting, the action is mounting. Get your arse in gear, UK - and the rest of the world. End this.

 

[rojofa]

I expect fuck all to happen but its good to see a news story at least, better than the radio silence for weeks/months.

BBC News - Loot boxes: Lords call for 'immediate' gambling regulation - 2nd July 2020.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53253195

9 months ago a call was made for "immediate" action, and absolutely nothing has happened. If anything the lockdowns should have given more incentive and accelerated this as people have had more time indoors to get addicted to these games/gambling, plus more likely to be in an even worse financial situation from lost earnings but nope, nothing.

If the government cared about the financial and mental wellbeing of the victims of these games then they would have regulated this shit years ago, same with regular gambling/online casinos etc. Policies could easily be put in place to limit/eliminate the harm from these things but it's too lucrative for enough rich fuckers for me to have any confidence anything will change, especially with the Tories in power.

 

[JUNELELE]

I don't really know which thread to put this as it's more of an observation than anything else, but I think maybe @Chuny wrote a comment ages ago in one of the FIFA threads about the way the players kick the ball on FIFA being pretty terrible, especially compared to PES. It's very true, there's very little back lift to passing on FIFA, it's all quite instant and it takes away satisfaction when passing often.

I've noticed there's one animation on FIFA where this isn't the case - and it's so much more satisfying to play a pass using that particular animation compared to all of the others. If you hold the trigger down and play a through ball, in the right context you'll see a much more realistic back lift and the pass just 'feels' like it's hit properly. I really hope going into the next gen of FIFA they fix this - it really is minor but would make a big difference.

It wasn't like that in the Ignite engine games. The ball had a natural feel and bobble to it.

In the frostbite games the ball seems to behave like a bowling ball with how smooth it travels and there's often weird, unnatural rapid velocity to it's pace. It's difficult to descibe properly

 

[Anth James]

It wasn't like that in the Ignite engine games. The ball had a natural feel and bobble to it.

In the frostbite games the ball seems to behave like a bowling ball with how smooth it travels and there's often weird, unnatural rapid velocity to it's pace. It's difficult to descibe properly

I agree with this too (although I find the ball speed on 16 to be a little off in a few ways), but I'm more talking about the animation of kicking the ball as opposed to the ball movement itself.

 

[Anth James]

Just a small observation regarding manual passing for PES and FIFA.

To me, something has never quite felt right about manual passing on FIFA. There's an inconsistency to it which I don't find on PES. I also find that the ball slows down a lot on FIFA's manual passing vs assisted. While this sounds good in theory, I find passes just don't have any real zip to them, they lack carry and seem to slow down a lot before reaching their opponent.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Just a small observation regarding manual passing for PES and FIFA.

To me, something has never quite felt right about manual passing on FIFA. There's an inconsistency to it which I don't find on PES. I also find that the ball slows down a lot on FIFA's manual passing vs assisted. While this sounds good in theory, I find passes just don't have any real zip to them, they lack carry and seem to slow down a lot before reaching their opponent.

I was saying the same months ago. Not so much in 16 though. Glad I’m not alone anymore.

 

[JUNELELE]

Inconsistent how?

 

[papinho81]

If I may, FIFA on manual feels like manual in terms of aiming while in PES it still very much feels on rails. As for the pass power, I tend to agree that since FIFA18 onward, it feels like you need to squash the pass button to get descent power. I have to press the cross (pass) much longer than the square (shot) for instance. I have no problem of that matter with 17 and earlier versions.

 

[aussiepesfan]

This stuff that PES on full manual feels like its on rails - do you mean the passing or the player runs??
If its animation, that people are referring to: The way i see it, is that Konami keeps things (animations, touch, change of direction) much simpler than Fifa (which obviously means less variety than the animation of fifa), and less looser than fifa to so to speak. But this extra animation (unfortunately many done poorly by Fifa) and the looseness, makes Fifa look plain awful!!... the players running, passing.. and all the key animations look woefully unnatural to me.. This, together with poor ball physics are the main reasons I wont play Fifa, plus the fact that Konami are doing a great job atm. Konami, with its 'keep it simple' approach, seems to build on its smaller animation base, and makes the key animations look good and natural. I dont think either company have really ironed out the sprint animation correctly yet (where sprinting from a speedster, has that real agile sprinting look to it), but Konami has definitely improved this from pes17/18/19 etc.

If its the passing that people are referring to (the rail likeness in full manual), Im not getting that either... The ball goes to where i pass it. Is it 360 exactly, surely not, but its still quite sensitive to the slightest change of direction on the analog stick. I do think there is some outside coded help based on the player attributes (good players seem to be more accurate even on full manual, plus can pass with the added zip on ground, or flatness in the air), but that's surely a good thing. I love the fact that most of my passes are never to the players feet, and Konami are increasing the amounts of the animations of the receiving player making adjustments to receiving the ball (more contextual than even last years version). Most of it looks natural, with momentum looking more realistic.. not all the time, but most - something that extra animations will only make better over time. The big thing with natural looking ball passing/shooting etc, is ball physics, and i think PES2021 easily has the best ball physics ever created. I reckon this new dlc5.0 has improved it once again.

I get all the scripting talk when people are paying out PES2021, but apart from that, its an amazing game. Still astounds me that people dont consider this pes2021 as not only the best PES ever created, but also the best football sim created to date. Yeh i have my modded glasses on, where everything is enhanced (kits, balls, awesome modded natural turf, and script fee gamplay mods), but at its core its a brilliant game...I argue it has the most realistic gameplay, player movement and ball physics of any football game to date.

Saw a couple of mates playing fifa21 on ps5 last week.. and whoa.. nice colours and presentation, looks loverly...... , BUT AGAIN the same crap body proportions (poor player models in gameplay view, not presentation sceens), weird movement animations, and poor ball physics. Just hoping Konami's latest approach of just making the slightest of steps to make the game better each version continues.. Im probably one of the few who'd like some continuity from pes2021 to pes2022 on next gen... and for it not to be a completely new game. Excited for a fresh new Pes2022, and to see what it has to offer with the new generation of gaming, but just hope all is not lost and forgotten from the awesome PES2021.

 

[Anth James]

Inconsistent how?

I haven't quite pinpointed it, I just find the mechanics of it not as stable as PES for manual passing. I don't mean learning curve either, it just feels a little off to me.

The passing error on FIFA seems to represent itself in under or overhit passes more than left or right aiming a little too often for my liking. It also feels like your teammates aren't 'ready' for the ball on manual quick enough (not always, but moreso than PES). If it's wide of them I feel like they kind of freeze up or something. I'm not explaining myself all that well, it just doesn't feel quite like I can play manual passing and still have a coherent, short passing game - even if my skill level is high. I'm not typically an assisted player either, I've played manual passing exclusively in both games from FIFA 08 onwards, but in recent years I've tried playing assisted a little more. There's nothing more I hate than the ball not having enough carry on it either, and I think I'm just finding it too often with FIFA's manual passing.

 

[rojofa]

PES manual passing feels fantastic to me, I get the feeling it's a bit assisted, but holding L2 removes this.

The ball trajectories are nice and look convincing, so the stuff you can do with the ball and passes you can pick out feel believable/satisfying...

Though I wouldn't call it "ball physics" as it is so predetermined and predictable. To me the word "physics" should mean that the outcome is properly dynamic, based on many forces/factors that could produce tons of variety/error. PES is nothing like that, the ball trajectories are extremely repetitive. If I power up a manual pass with the various buttons and then paused the game at impact, I could basically draw the line the ball would take without fail. This is great for feeling in control of the manual passing I suppose, but it's not realistic, especially with lower rated players.

Unfortunately this lack of proper ball physics extends to the shooting, which I think along with the way keepers are balanced/scripted against it, is the worst part of the game that completely ruins the gameplay and any satisfaction you can get from the manual passing in the build up. Gone over this so many times in the PES thread especially last year (and this time it's 99% the same game).

Shooting in PES the last few years is one of the most on-rails, boring and predictable game mechanics I've ever seen in a sports game, when this should be where the most variety is seen so you can score goals you haven't seen before months after release. PES was usually great at this up until Fox Engine, but now pretty much all the shots and goals look and feel the same.

Look at long range goal compilation videos and see how it's basically all the same almost straight rocket of a shot or finesse shot that curves like a frisbee. On manual people never even really use side foot shots anyway so there's even less variety. Only the player traits like "rising shot" and "dipping shot" cause a tiny bit of variety, which further shows how scripted the supposed "ball physics" are that such ball movements are locked behind an on/off switch.

 

[papinho81]

PES manual passing feels fantastic to me, I get the feeling it's a bit assisted, but holding L2 removes this.

The ball trajectories are nice and look convincing, so the stuff you can do with the ball and passes you can pick out feel believable/satisfying...

Though I wouldn't call it "ball physics" as it is so predetermined and predictable. To me the word "physics" should mean that the outcome is properly dynamic, based on many forces/factors that could produce tons of variety/error. PES is nothing like that, the ball trajectories are extremely repetitive. If I power up a manual pass with the various buttons and then paused the game at impact, I could basically draw the line the ball would take without fail. This is great for feeling in control of the manual passing I suppose, but it's not realistic, especially with lower rated players.

Unfortunately this lack of proper ball physics extends to the shooting, which I think along with the way keepers are balanced/scripted against it, is the worst part of the game that completely ruins the gameplay and any satisfaction you can get from the manual passing in the build up. Gone over this so many times in the PES thread especially last year (and this time it's 99% the same game).

Shooting in PES the last few years is one of the most on-rails, boring and predictable game mechanics I've ever seen in a sports game, when this should be where the most variety is seen so you can score goals you haven't seen before months after release, PES was usually great at this up until Fox Engine, but now pretty much all the shots and goals all look and feel the same.

Look at long range goal compilation videos and see how it's basically all the same almost straight rocket of a shot or finesse shot that curves like a frisbee. On manual people never even really use side foot shots anyway so there's even less variety. Only the player traits like "rising shot" and "dipping shot" cause a tiny bit of variety, which further shows how scripted the supposed "ball physics" are that such ball movements are locked behind an on/off switch.

Thank you! You have put in words my exact feeling. You saved me an hour trying to explain myself and probably awkwardly so.

 

[Anth James]

This stuff that PES on full manual feels like its on rails - do you mean the passing or the player runs??
If its animation, that people are referring to: The way i see it, is that Konami keeps things (animations, touch, change of direction) much simpler than Fifa (which obviously means less variety than the animation of fifa), and less looser than fifa to so to speak. But this extra animation (done poorly by Fifa) and the looseness, makes Fifa look plain aweful... the players running, passing.. and all the key animations look woeful to me.. this looseness some crave, means the body movements in Fifa are just so unnatural to me, hence i wont touch Fifa. Pes, on the other hand, with its 'keep it simple' approach, seems to build on its animation base, and makes the key animations look good and natural.
If its the passing that people are referring to (the rail likeness in full manual), Im not getting that either... The ball goes to where i pass it. I do think there is some outside coded help based on the player attributes (good players seem to be more accurate even on full manual, plus can pass with the added zip on ground, or flatness in the air), but thats a good thing. I love the fact that most of my passes are never to the players feet, and Konami are increasing the amounts (contextual) of the animations of the receiving player making adjustments to receiving the ball). Most of it looks natural, with momentum looking pretty spot on.. not all the time, but most. Something that extra animations will only make better and better.

I get all the scripting talk when people are paying out PES2021, but apart from that, its an amazing game. Still astounds me that people dont consider this pes2021 as not only the best PES ever created, but also the best football sim created to date. Yeh i have my modded glasses on, where everything is enhanced (kits, awesome modded natural turf, and script fee gamplay mods), but at its core its a brilliant game...most realistic gameplay and player movement that ive ever seen. Saw a couple of mates playing fifa21 on ps5.. and whoa.. nice colours and presentation, but again the same crap body proportions (player physics), weird movement animations, and poor ball physics. Just hoping Konami's latest approach of just making slightest of steps to make the game better each version continues.. Im probably one of the few who'd like some continuity from pes2021 to pes2022 on next gen... and for it not to be a completely new game.

I can't say I agree with your assessment of PES 2021 as being the best football sim created. I hear your points about animations on recent FIFA games, but to me there's so many more elements involved in creating a sim outside of just animations. This has all been said before, but I find the gameplay on modern PES to be INCREDIBLY rigid. For me, the variety level is about a 2-3/10. Positioning and players running to set markers based purely on tactical instructions and not where the ball is, is a massive regression in the series - and in football games in general.

I'm not really in any particular camp, I'll go where the best experience is. I was similar to you in the last 5 years or so - I was exlusively PES, but slowly I grew very tired and frustrated of modern PES and in the last 12 months I've ventured outside and gone back and played a whole host of retro titles and it's been a great experience. Playing older PES and FIFA games, I've found myself far less frustrated with the core gameplay elements. It had been so long since I'd played many of these, I didn't expect to find BETTER simulation elements in some of these games, but this is undoubtedly the case. Variety, organic moments, player positioning and AI - all better in older titles. I have to THINK about football more when I'm playing - to me this is a huge, huge element in creating a simulation. To say all FIFA games are just pure arcade and terrible is highly inaccurate in my opinion. Sure they have their faults, but they also do a lot right (some more than others).

In terms of 'keep it simple' - that is certainly something I wish PES did with their gameplay on the Fox engine. If you look at the way players are always moving, reacting to something and never just settled or confident in their position it's clear that they're trying to follow too many conflicting commands. The gameplay needs to be stripped back and then I think there could be something good there. I think FIFA's worst decision in the last 2-3 years has been the implementation of 1v1 - this has destroyed its game and created so many problems with their core gameplay.

So all in all, I think both games are currently in fairly bad shape - but you don't really have to go back too far to find some decent titles!

 

[aussiepesfan]

I agree with some of you points, particularly the way 'players are always moving, reacting to something and never just settled' etc.. this was huge in pes15, 16 17 etc. But from Pes20 i think its been dramatically decreased... still there.. even today, and thats one thing that needs to be really worked on to make the series more reaslistic and sim like.... similarly, players need to be more settled on the ball.. hold the ball.. dribble more.. rather than immediately get rid it.

Out of curiosity, which version of the game is the most sim-like to you??? When i say pes2021 is the best more simlike football game to date, im purely talking about gameplay (control be it dribbling, tackling, passing, shooting), player animations, player movement and ball physics, which is the key/core components of football. Even pes5 and 6, despite their greatness, arent close to pes2021 in this regard. The control, and variety, of pes2021, particuarly with full manual, is so much more of a simulation compared to these old gems.

 

[JUNELELE]

I haven't quite pinpointed it, I just find the mechanics of it not as stable as PES for manual passing. I don't mean learning curve either, it just feels a little off to me.

The passing error on FIFA seems to represent itself in under or overhit passes more than left or right aiming a little too often for my liking. It also feels like your teammates aren't 'ready' for the ball on manual quick enough (not always, but moreso than PES). If it's wide of them I feel like they kind of freeze up or something. I'm not explaining myself all that well, it just doesn't feel quite like I can play manual passing and still have a coherent, short passing game - even if my skill level is high. I'm not typically an assisted player either, I've played manual passing exclusively in both games from FIFA 08 onwards, but in recent years I've tried playing assisted a little more. There's nothing more I hate than the ball not having enough carry on it either, and I think I'm just finding it too often with FIFA's manual passing.

Alright, cheers for the response. I havent played pes in a bit so don't know how it is there

I can kinda see what you mean about the player "freezing" or reaction to passes. I generally feel attackers should have greater ability to receive passes, to be more dynamic. I think the game is built around assisted passing so defenders receiving manaul passes can sometimes not be as reponsive as it could.

One thing manual fifa has never been great at is first time passes. They can be very inconsistent whether they make the pass or just tap the ball. However this aspect has been improved in 21 specifically.

One awful thing about 21 is that manual crossing is not manual at all. the aiming is manual but the power is not. You can tap the cross for a milisecond but the cross will always travel to at least around the penalty spot. it's not actually manual power :/

 

[Anth James]

I agree with some of you points, particularly the way 'players are always moving, reacting to something and never just settled' etc.. this was huge in pes15, 16 17 etc. But from Pes20 i think its been dramatically decreased... still there.. even today, and thats one thing that needs to be really worked on to make the series more reaslistic and sim like.... similarly, players need to be more settled on the ball.. hold the ball.. dribble more.. rather than immediately get rid it.

Out of curiosity, which version of the game is the most sim-like to you??? When i say pes2021 is the best more simlike football game to date, im purely talking about gameplay (control be it dribbling, tackling, passing, shooting), player animations, player movement and ball physics, which is the key/core components of football. Even pes5 and 6, despite their greatness, arent close to pes2021 in this regard. The control, and variety, of pes2021, particuarly with full manual, is so much more of a simulation compared to these old gems.

Yeah I agree about players needing to be more settled on the ball as well. The long ball to the striker is always just a few seconds away - it makes me anxious 🤣

For me, while not perfect, FIFA 16 (v1.00) has the most simulation elements. The midfield game, the way the CPU closes off your passing lanes and the 'feeling' that you don't see the same thing twice is brilliant. The way physicality is represented with organic fouls and a proper fight for the ball is also great. @breezy put it well when he said that FIFA 16 captures the 'slower' elements of the game best.

I do think PES 2021 has some good elements to it, I just hope they can find some of that great variety they're known for from the old games. Fingers crossed for 2022!

 

[aussiepesfan]

Yeah I agree about players needing to be more settled on the ball as well. The long ball to the striker is always just a few seconds away - it makes me anxious 🤣

For me, while not perfect, FIFA 16 (v1.00) has the most simulation elements. The midfield game, the way the CPU closes off your passing lanes and the 'feeling' that you don't see the same thing twice is brilliant. The way physicality is represented with organic fouls and a proper fight for the ball is also great. @breezy put it well when he said that FIFA 16 captures the 'slower' elements of the game best.

I do think PES 2021 has some good elements to it, I just hope they can find some of that great variety they're known for from the old games. Fingers crossed for 2022!

I must say FIFA 16 is the last Fifa i enjoyed playing. It definitely had things neither game has this year (namely some of the stuff you mentioned about midfield, and players closing lanes as in real life). But it also lacks a lot of what this years pes2021 has. (not sure about Fifa21 as i cant be assed to play a woefully bad looking game - player model and animation wise) Id argue that pes2021 represents physicality better than any game before it. And although it should be default, a lot of the long ball to striker crap that you do see in pes2021 can be fixed by editing team tactics... and the gameplay mods can wipe a lot of this impatience out also... Just wish it could also make players dribble and hold the ball more.

Anyways, i may give fifa16 (and 14 -another fifa i enjoyed many years ago) a go, just to see the comparisons. cheers.

 

[aussiepesfan]

PES manual passing feels fantastic to me, I get the feeling it's a bit assisted, but holding L2 removes this.

The ball trajectories are nice and look convincing, so the stuff you can do with the ball and passes you can pick out feel believable/satisfying...

Though I wouldn't call it "ball physics" as it is so predetermined and predictable. To me the word "physics" should mean that the outcome is properly dynamic, based on many forces/factors that could produce tons of variety/error. PES is nothing like that, the ball trajectories are extremely repetitive. If I power up a manual pass with the various buttons and then paused the game at impact, I could basically draw the line the ball would take without fail. This is great for feeling in control of the manual passing I suppose, but it's not realistic, especially with lower rated players.

Unfortunately this lack of proper ball physics extends to the shooting, which I think along with the way keepers are balanced/scripted against it, is the worst part of the game that completely ruins the gameplay and any satisfaction you can get from the manual passing in the build up. Gone over this so many times in the PES thread especially last year (and this time it's 99% the same game).

Shooting in PES the last few years is one of the most on-rails, boring and predictable game mechanics I've ever seen in a sports game, when this should be where the most variety is seen so you can score goals you haven't seen before months after release. PES was usually great at this up until Fox Engine, but now pretty much all the shots and goals look and feel the same.

Look at long range goal compilation videos and see how it's basically all the same almost straight rocket of a shot or finesse shot that curves like a frisbee. On manual people never even really use side foot shots anyway so there's even less variety. Only the player traits like "rising shot" and "dipping shot" cause a tiny bit of variety, which further shows how scripted the supposed "ball physics" are that such ball movements are locked behind an on/off switch.

Pretty decent post!
Agree with the manual passing feeling good in Pes2021. Also agree with some of the aspects you mention about 'ball physics', as it definitely includes the variety of outcomes (situational /contexual). Pes2021, although improving in this area, certainly needs to increase the variety of outcomes (trajectories, spins, errors). But at the heart of ball physics.. the fundementals, the first thing that needs to be present is a realistic looking and feeling ball.. as it moves around the pitch. It needs to fly though the air, roll on the ground, as physically close to the real thing as possible, before even considering variation. And thats what i reckon pes2021 does better than any version. The ball actually has weight to it, which i dont feel with other football games.

I do agree that although we want manual, and full control, which is what PES2021 gives well, there needs to be more stat bases elements involved... a shite midfielder for a <70 rated team/player, shouldnt be able to pass exactly like an Iniesta. I do think that, even on manual, i do feel a difference when passing with a good passer compared to a mediocre player, but i think the difference should be greater..and there should be more errors involved.... particularly due to poor positioning...or when tries a first-touch pass while under pressure..

Shooting is an interesting one. Definitely not boring and predictable for me... i go into free-training, and have a blast playing against the keeper (and maybe a couple of defenders) trying various shots, and i see a lot of different shooting techniques, side footers etc..and a variety of trajectories and spins. And im seeing awesome variety in headers as well. This has improved heaps this year. Im also seeing more variation with shooting errors (soft miskicks or big up n unders going well above the bar) this year as well.

But again, can it do with more variety - of course it can. Dont really think you can compare or look at those long range goal compilations, where of course they are going to look very similar... same type of shooting. Lately ive been, and seen the ai as well, shoot a lot of the low shots into the corner... this never really happened last year.

Anyways, again this needs to improve. And, if anything seems on rail, i think its the keeper's saves of the long shots.. they are a bit too similar.
Im hoping, and quite optimistic that 'variation' in outcomes and animations will be a big focus with Pes2022... as well getting the transitioning of these increased outcomes/animations to look as smooth and natural as possible.