FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

Anth James said:
Yeah I agree about players needing to be more settled on the ball as well. The long ball to the striker is always just a few seconds away - it makes me anxious 🤣

For me, while not perfect, FIFA 16 (v1.00) has the most simulation elements. The midfield game, the way the CPU closes off your passing lanes and the 'feeling' that you don't see the same thing twice is brilliant. The way physicality is represented with organic fouls and a proper fight for the ball is also great. @breezy put it well when he said that FIFA 16 captures the 'slower' elements of the game best.

I do think PES 2021 has some good elements to it, I just hope they can find some of that great variety they're known for from the old games. Fingers crossed for 2022!
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Sixteen my man!!! SIX, TEEEN, FULL STOP! 😍
Just had a blast yesterday, when I got out of my cockpit (wich consumes a lot of time at the moment), playing some matches!! I was well entertained!! 👏😊

And yes, fingers crossed, break a leg, good luck... for 2022!!
I‘m fully with you!
 
aussiepesfan said:
I must say FIFA 16 is the last Fifa i enjoyed playing. It definitely had things neither game has this year (namely some of the stuff you mentioned about midfield, and players closing lanes as in real life). But it also lacks a lot of what this years pes2021 has. (not sure about Fifa21 as i cant be assed to play a woefully bad looking game - player model and animation wise)
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That doesn't make sense. The player models in FIFA 21 are dimensions better than the player models in FIFA 16.
 
Always amazes me how some people play PES on PC, modded to bits, with enhanced everything, including gameplay and AI and then come here claiming that Pes21 is the best football sim ever created.

Its like buying planks in your local hardware shop, giving them to some incredibly talented carpenter, who makes it into some kick-ass furniture and then claiming that your local hardware shop sells the best furniture in the world.
...coz at the core, the planks came from Bob, right...?
 
majuh said:
That doesn't make sense. The player models in FIFA 21 are dimensions better than the player models in FIFA 16.
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Didn't say they weren't. Maybe they are.. Haven't played Fifa 16 for years, so cant compare. All i know is won't go to the current Fifa as its player models and animations dont suit me visually 😉
 
Emroth said:
Always amazes me how some people play PES on PC, modded to bits, with enhanced everything, including gameplay and AI and then come here claiming that Pes21 is the best football sim ever created.

Its like buying planks in your local hardware shop, giving them to some incredibly talented carpenter, who makes it into some kick-ass furniture and then claiming that your local hardware shop sells the best furniture in the world.
...coz at the core, the planks came from Bob, right...?
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I play on ps5 and after this latest patch I think it's probably the best game of video game football I've ever played Inc WE7 & PES6
 
Emroth said:
Always amazes me how some people play PES on PC, modded to bits, with enhanced everything, including gameplay and AI and then come here claiming that Pes21 is the best football sim ever created.
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I think PES2021 PC ver. is the best footy game to date, regardless of the mods. Not sure of the ps4 version as i no longer play this, but for me the PC version runs smoother. The mods do make it quite a bit better i must admit 😉
 
Something (for the better) has happened in here.
Remember the good old days,17-18ish when this thread was worse than WW2?
Mods handed out bans left and right.
So nice to see people come around.

So,my view on Pes Vs FIFA,and especially manual passing,I played manual on Pes 13 to around 18,always loved it,if it's assisted or not,couldn't care less,think konami nailed that ,and having around 70-77% in passing isn't too assisted to me.
On the other hand,and I play more FIFA nowadays,their manual passing has never been my thing,might have to do with lightweight player models (my opinion) ?.
It never sits right with me,also the fact that you have to press the pass button very hard to make a simple pass etc is annoying.

Since I play games that use a lot of stick control for passing/shooting or/and pass modifier (hold down one trigger and chose between Y-B-X-LT etc on what kind of action you want) I think this just press (in my case) A for a pass like it's been since the dawn of games would do just fine with an upgrade.

Long story short,I like Pes manual,think fifas isn't good enough.
 
rockstrongo said:
I play more FIFA nowadays,their manual passing has never been my thing,might have to do with lightweight player models (my opinion) ?.
It never sits right with me,also the fact that you have to press the pass button very hard to make a simple pass etc is annoying.
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Agree on that.
Regardless whether I have it set to Lock target before or when you kick the ball - I never feel enough in control with Fifa manual passing. Dont know is it the lightweight of the players, their "twitchiness", or what, but I can never aim properly. Its almost like when sensitivity in shooting games is set to very high and im all over the screen. This together with not enough power in passing causes some sort of weird paradox, where I have to be extra careful while aiming and at the same time push the button into the ground to make the pass.
 
Emroth said:
Agree on that.
Regardless whether I have it set to Lock target before or when you kick the ball - I never feel enough in control with Fifa manual passing. Dont know is it the lightweight of the players, their "twitchiness", or what, but I can never aim properly. Its almost like when sensitivity in shooting games is set to very high and im all over the screen. This together with not enough power in passing causes some sort of weird paradox, where I have to be extra careful while aiming and at the same time push the button into the ground to make the pass.
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Sure feels weird Marty,me and shooters are like an 80 year old trying to aim:)

It's like you say,the twitchiness is the real killer there.
For me semi passing/shooting and manual all others is pretty good setup for FIFA.
But I do miss those long manual passes down the wing or over a high standing back four like you can do on Pes,man that's so sweet.
Or the cheeky little lob in to the box for a direct shot etc.
Pes nailed that IMO.
 
aussiepesfan said:
Pretty decent post!
Agree with the manual passing feeling good in Pes2021. Also agree with some of the aspects you mention about 'ball physics', as it definitely includes the variety of outcomes (situational /contexual). Pes2021, although improving in this area, certainly needs to increase the variety of outcomes (trajectories, spins, errors). But at the heart of ball physics.. the fundementals, the first thing that needs to be present is a realistic looking and feeling ball.. as it moves around the pitch. It needs to fly though the air, roll on the ground, as physically close to the real thing as possible, before even considering variation. And thats what i reckon pes2021 does better than any version. The ball actually has weight to it, which i dont feel with other football games.

I do agree that although we want manual, and full control, which is what PES2021 gives well, there needs to be more stat bases elements involved... a shite midfielder for a <70 rated team/player, shouldnt be able to pass exactly like an Iniesta. I do think that, even on manual, i do feel a difference when passing with a good passer compared to a mediocre player, but i think the difference should be greater..and there should be more errors involved.... particularly due to poor positioning...or when tries a first-touch pass while under pressure..

Shooting is an interesting one. Definitely not boring and predictable for me... i go into free-training, and have a blast playing against the keeper (and maybe a couple of defenders) trying various shots, and i see a lot of different shooting techniques, side footers etc..and a variety of trajectories and spins. And im seeing awesome variety in headers as well. This has improved heaps this year. Im also seeing more variation with shooting errors (soft miskicks or big up n unders going well above the bar) this year as well.

But again, can it do with more variety - of course it can. Dont really think you can compare or look at those long range goal compilations, where of course they are going to look very similar... same type of shooting. Lately ive been, and seen the ai as well, shoot a lot of the low shots into the corner... this never really happened last year.

Anyways, again this needs to improve. And, if anything seems on rail, i think its the keeper's saves of the long shots.. they are a bit too similar.
Im hoping, and quite optimistic that 'variation' in outcomes and animations will be a big focus with Pes2022... as well getting the transitioning of these increased outcomes/animations to look as smooth and natural as possible.
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If I were forced to play either game, I'd have to choose PES largely for the reasons you outline but to be honest I think both are awful for different reasons. One being worse doesn't mean the other is good.

I agree about the "physics" in that the priority should be that any ball movements are realistic. It's better to have a limited range of realistic trajectories than tons of variety but none resembling a real football.

Especially on manual where it relies on you fully manipulating the ball to get it where you want it to go, if these physics don't make sense in matching what you see in real matches or when you kick a ball in real life, the options open and how you think about it don't match up either.

I think it was FIFA 18 where manual long balls had these weird low-ish trajectories with almost no spin and then loads of friction when they landed. Like kicking a rock on the moon... No matter how much contextual error or how many sliders there are, that's never going to resemble football or make you instinctively exploit space in the same way as in real football.

I have to treat manual FIFA as it's own thing separate from football, even picking out pinpoint passes it never feels satisfying in a football sense. For me the satisfaction on manual comes from having the pass come out exactly as it did in my mind's eye from thousands of hours watching and playing football. PES can offer a limited subset of that, FIFA offers none of it. I've refused to buy the last few iterations but the passing physics still look equally bad in videos on manual.

Can't agree with you on the shooting though and I don't see any of that variety... Even PES5/6 had better and more varied shooting 15+ years ago. The keepers are an issue as well, but if they didn't save so many of these rocket shots then every match would have 10+ goals. When a long shot goes in you don't feel like"phwoaar what a strike", it's just this shot was identical to the last 50 but the direction happened to be just inside the post this time rather than a little wide or inside the superman GK's reach. In older games you'd get a full range of shots flying miles over, scuffed wide/into the ground or just weakly struck, which made the belters an actual highlight even if they didn't go in.

Shooting physics one thing I think FIFA does better, they seem to have a completely different set of physics to the passing. Looks pretty realistic with loads of variety on spin and trajectory. A similar example to the previous post of a FIFA 21 long range goal compilation would be nowhere near as repetitive.
 
aussiepesfan said:
Hows the ps5 ver different to the ps4 or pc ver?
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Other than looking better on my TV it's not , but I'd feel the same on my old ps4 pro. I've liked and disliked pes21 but this last patch has fixed most of my dislikes , randomness is back , AI error seems to have been increased quite a bit and the AI directness has been toned down without the need of editing a load of tactics ..seems set up very nicely for 22 which should be massively different on the PS5
 
interesting youve mentioned the last patch and liking it. Me too.. and thats considering ive been playing Holland's awesome GP patches since 1.04.00. This new 1.05.00 seems very enjoyable to me, with better ball physics and player dribbling from what ive seen initially. Interestly, spoony pizzas just reviewed the new datapack (on youtube) and absolutely hates it lol Looks really bad when he plays it.. but im pretty sure he's on some form of assistance as it certainly doesnt look like full manual that he's playing, and it certainly doesnt look like the game im currently playing.

Anyways.. regarding Pes5/6, although i still disagree it has more variety than pes2021, i did like the fact that it was very easy to sky rocket a long range effort.. as it was way more sensitive with the shoot button. This also made it difficult to score from freekicks, which i do think is a tad too easy on pes2021. Also, from memory, pes5/6 had probably the best balance between the controlling of defenders vs. attacking players. Much easier to defend in that game, which i think is more realistic.
 
Emroth said:
Agree on that.
Regardless whether I have it set to Lock target before or when you kick the ball - I never feel enough in control with Fifa manual passing. Dont know is it the lightweight of the players, their "twitchiness", or what, but I can never aim properly. Its almost like when sensitivity in shooting games is set to very high and im all over the screen. This together with not enough power in passing causes some sort of weird paradox, where I have to be extra careful while aiming and at the same time push the button into the ground to make the pass.
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Agree on the lightweight of players!! Little to none physicality...
I just can’t go on playing 21! 16 suits me so well, even with flaws, no current rosters...
the basics are so damn right here!! Versatile AI, variance in lots mechanics, fun in so many ways... all aspects deliver so good towards representing real football!
Last time I had this feeling (even when the experience was a bit different) was when I played PES2017. Just saying. :)
 
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i am here to rant on superstar difficulty in master league, the catch up bug is still there, i have messi running on goal in a 1on1, and the defender just behind messi would clip the ball from behind off him without a foul and then get up and pass the ball...!!!!!!!!!... this would never ever happen in real life without getting a foul from it... small things like these in PES really matter a lot when u are looking for 1 goal to progress into a later stage in a cup competition for example, and add to that, i had once Dybala running on goal aswell from the left hand side, he s inside the area just behind the 6 meter line, and the shooting on basic is atrocious, wtf, i mean this is dybala,with a shooting ability above 85..... he skies it into raw z without even pressing much on the button..... shooting on basic is just not good at all in PES, if only my mind could accept the bad passing animations and the ball physics of fifa, i would just play fifa and that s it,the shooting on basic is amazing in FIFA because it has a lot of variety, but the pros and cons are a lot in both games, and in PES the cons are very bad especially you want to play a full ML season, things need to change in PES 2022, a lot of things tbh
 
aussiepesfan said:
I must say FIFA 16 is the last Fifa i enjoyed playing. It definitely had things neither game has this year (namely some of the stuff you mentioned about midfield, and players closing lanes as in real life). But it also lacks a lot of what this years pes2021 has. (not sure about Fifa21 as i cant be assed to play a woefully bad looking game - player model and animation wise) Id argue that pes2021 represents physicality better than any game before it. And although it should be default, a lot of the long ball to striker crap that you do see in pes2021 can be fixed by editing team tactics... and the gameplay mods can wipe a lot of this impatience out also... Just wish it could also make players dribble and hold the ball more.

Anyways, i may give fifa16 (and 14 -another fifa i enjoyed many years ago) a go, just to see the comparisons. cheers.
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i agree with u, FIFa 16 is The PES of all fifas
 
At this stage I just want a football game that would be unpredictable.
Dont care whether its Fifa or Pes.

To think of it - I honestly dont remember last time when AI did something I wouldnt see coming.

Pes17 was solid game, with a bit of everything. But even there I could still predict nearly all AI plans (not avoid the goals, just see what they gonna do)
And 'unpredictable' moments in PES17 did not make sense. They would foul me in the middle of the pitch, getting red card, for absolutely no logical reason.

Fifa might have more AI individuality than PES, but its all barely visible due to clunkiness, twitchiness, lightweight and general player movements clusterfuck.
Im spending more time trying to control my players dancing on ice than to focus on the match.

I want unpredictable shots from distance,
Unpredictable AI dribbling and unpredictable cheeky fouls to stop my attacks.
I just want every match to feel fresh, not same old shit throughout the whole season. That kills me.
 
Mathgamer said:
Watching the Madden trailer I didn't find anything very relevant graphically, I liked what they are doing in the artificial intelligence, Deep Learning and animations, and the career mode improvements. One aspect that caught my attention is that EA said that in Madden the career mode is more played than UT.

I hope to see improvements in FIFA's artificial intelligence/CPU

https://venturebeat.com/2021/06/17/how-madden-21s-ai-makes-better-use-of-nfl-next-gen-stats/amp/
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Emroth said:
At this stage I just want a football game that would be unpredictable.
Dont care whether its Fifa or Pes.

To think of it - I honestly dont remember last time when AI did something I wouldnt see coming.

Pes17 was solid game, with a bit of everything. But even there I could still predict nearly all AI plans (not avoid the goals, just see what they gonna do)
And 'unpredictable' moments in PES17 did not make sense. They would foul me in the middle of the pitch, getting red card, for absolutely no logical reason.

Fifa might have more AI individuality than PES, but its all barely visible due to clunkiness, twitchiness, lightweight and general player movements clusterfuck.
Im spending more time trying to control my players dancing on ice than to focus on the match.

I want unpredictable shots from distance,
Unpredictable AI dribbling and unpredictable cheeky fouls to stop my attacks.
I just want every match to feel fresh, not same old shit throughout the whole season. That kills me.
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Hopefully after reading about next gen stats the individuality will be increased in all areas
 
It's a tough call, but based on the 21's, I'd say PES accomplishes a more unpredictable nature than FIFA. In FIFA dev eyes, the midfielders not tracking back wasn't fixed, it was by design to keep FUT players happy with less "AI Defending". If FUT are happy, then I'm not sure how offline players will be in a good spot.
 
Emroth said:
At this stage I just want a football game that would be unpredictable.
Dont care whether its Fifa or Pes.

To think of it - I honestly dont remember last time when AI did something I wouldnt see coming.

Pes17 was solid game, with a bit of everything. But even there I could still predict nearly all AI plans (not avoid the goals, just see what they gonna do)
And 'unpredictable' moments in PES17 did not make sense. They would foul me in the middle of the pitch, getting red card, for absolutely no logical reason.

Fifa might have more AI individuality than PES, but its all barely visible due to clunkiness, twitchiness, lightweight and general player movements clusterfuck.
Im spending more time trying to control my players dancing on ice than to focus on the match.

I want unpredictable shots from distance,
Unpredictable AI dribbling and unpredictable cheeky fouls to stop my attacks.
I just want every match to feel fresh, not same old shit throughout the whole season. That kills me.
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If I had to pick 1 modern game that comes closest to this unpredictable/varied gameplay I'd say FIFA 16 v1.00. Not perfect, but more organic for sure

Edit: A decent example just happened as I was playing now. Small thing, but nice to see on legendary.

 
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Matt10 said:
It's a tough call, but based on the 21's, I'd say PES accomplishes a more unpredictable nature than FIFA. In FIFA dev eyes, the midfielders not tracking back wasn't fixed, it was by design to keep FUT players happy with less "AI Defending". If FUT are happy, then I'm not sure how offline players will be in a good spot.
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It's linked to the player's attribute, so it favors Ultimate Team.
 
Emroth said:
I missed Fifa16... :/
My daughter was born and I had 2 year gap. Went back to football games from '17 onwards.
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and that is the only excuse we are approving here, you know! ;)

man, Marty... i cant wait for you to review that vanilla disc version and let me know how you expirienced it! :CALM:

one thing that it brings to the table for me is that "one more match" feeling! last night, when the euros went all football-crazy, i thought to myself... lets jump into the game when the real matches are done and replicate. well, extra time, penals... i did not have the time last night! but this game always invites me for one more match!
 
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just a quickie: that FIFA22 presentation last night, even when not perfect, is worlds ahead of that e-football "news" from just minutes ago! oh boy...

giphy.gif
 
manmachine said:
There is more drama than needed though.
Hate to be the one to say it, but offline pes was dead for years, this is Konami just informing the relatives, just a bit late with the news, like internet explorer. Gameplay was kinda decent in 14 and 17 and that was it.
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I would go even further and say they havent had a good full release since pes 6. They have been a distant second for ages. The franchise has been dead for so long, people irl dont mention it anymore.

Konami deserves this. They are finished as a company as well
 
amuroray said:
I would go even further and say they havent had a good full release since pes 6. They have been a distant second for ages. The franchise has been dead for so long, people irl dont mention it anymore.

Konami deserves this. They are finished as a company as well
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They had good and bad moments, but after 14 they gave up, it was clear. PES 17 is the last one I bought and thought it was decent, yet I'd rather play Fifa 17 now than PES 17, so you have a point.

But that was the year both football games died for me when it comes to offline. Rocket league here we comeeeeeeeee!
 
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