FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

While we all had some great memories of playing pro evo in their glory years, when we look back on the history of the franchise we will see that its been very poor alot longer then it was any good.

Just that the good times were very exceptional for that era.
 
PRO_TOO said:
i hope i can soon start FIFA16 fully modded on PC! thats what i am looking forward to! :D

till then, its the vanilla PS4 version! all good! :D
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This is exactly why I've been trying to update 16 for the 21/22 season as quickly as possible. It's not looking good for the new ones...
 
I wasn't sure where to post this, since I wanna talk about both FIFA and PES, so this seems like the best thread for it really.

Recently I've been playing around with different cameras in PES and realized that it was literally impossible to make my ideal camera in it, even with the customization options for it. I'd love to play PES with a camera similar to FIFA's Tele camera, because it allows me to see the entire width of the pitch without being either too zoomed out, like PES' blimp camera, or too low, like FIFA's default camera where I can barely see what's on the other side of the pitch. I do like some low cameras, like the TV camera in the PS1 Winning Eleven games, or the Pitchside in PES2012 and onwards, because those zoom in when you're on the top of the screen, so they avoid the problem which FIFA's default camera has, but they create a new problem, which is that I can't see the entire width of the pitch. Looking at this FIFA08 gameplay, courtesy of Retro Football on YouTube, you can see what kind of camera I'd like to play with, and I literally can't recreate this in PES, unless it's with mods on the PC, but I play on console



Another thing that happened during my period experimenting cameras was that I stumbled upon the Vertical camera, which I imagine most players besides those that enjoy BAL wouldn't ever bother trying out, and with good reason, defending is a pain because I can't see the passing lanes I have to block, the camera is very close to the player and it's also especially difficult on FUMA because it's not static, it tilts and changes constantly. I do like this camera for what it is, however, shooting with it is very fun, and when controling the ball as a GK or CB, you can see the scope of the pitch and stadium, and this is probably closer to what the players see when they have the ball in real life, so it's very immersive. A vertical angle is also fun to me for two reasons, the first is that it reminds me of older football games like Striker or Super Soccer, and the second is that it's how I prefer watching matches when I go see my local club play on our stadium, behind the goal and centered, preferably on the highest floor aswell. PES' Vertical camera comes close to being one of my favorite cameras because of those reasons, I just wish I could customize it more. FIFA has a camera that almost gets it right, the End-To-End camera, I like it more than the one on PES because it's more straight and static, it still tilts a bit when you're closer to the sides of the pitch which I dislike, but it's still better, however while this does have customization it's effect is barely noticeable, even on the lowest height setting I still found it to be too high, which not only limits my visibility, but also losses the effect of immersion and scope. I really wish I could play with a camera that makes me remember the times in which I go watch my team play in real life. Of course I don't want the players to look like ants or anything, but I'd love to play with a straight and zoomed out vertical camera, and neither game offers me this option. Another video as an example, this time courtesy of Coxa Vídeos, it's an away match so it's not an exact representation of my experience going to our local stadium, but it's the same angle, center behind the goal and on the highest floor too. I especially love the way it looks on the first couple of seconds, before it zooms out, wish I could play on an angle similar to that.



I guess this post is a bit of a rant, because these are franchises that make lots of money every year, developed for machines that are more powerful than ever before, and yet something as simple as cameras, which don't involve any sort of license or extra cost besides the cost of developing them, is still bare bones in 2021, I mean, think about it, how much have the camera settings changed and improved in both games since the first few PS3/XBOX360 titles? Not much, the most significant change has been the addition of the Stadium camera in PES2020, which FIFA added too in the PS5/XSX version of FIFA21, but having a couple of new cameras after so many years, with customization options that are still very limiting and never improve, is very dissapointing. It's this kind of thing that makes me want to stop buying consoles and just switch to PC already, the modding community is fantastic and camera mods are one of the most standard things every year, which allow the player to make pretty much any camera they desire. Still, it's dissapointing, these games should come with way more camera options, and more significant customization sliders, right out of the box.
 
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Not really a comparison between PES and FIFA here ,more between FIFA's.
So lately I've been playing FIFA 16/17/18 a lot ,and I feel that it's quite tough getting a challenge out of those game.

I usually play semi and WC ,but I've gone up to LEG and regardless of team I pick to play a career with ,I don't really feel that the CPU is sharp enough ,yeah I can go fuma and have a challenge ,but that's only crippling me ,not making the AI sharper.

I'm starting to think 15 is the way to go ,or even 19 ,which I remember to be quite tough on ultimate or (god forbid) FIFA 20?

I actually had a proper beating by City (3-1) Vs my (unlawfully promoted) Villa on Fifa 17 ,but I still beat Palace/Albion's quite easily and holding go them to 3-4 shots on goal.
Suggestions?

And to compare ,I feel that PES has more of a challenge than FIFA when playing a career.

And no I'm not trying to boost myself as the best player around ,just having thoughts on toughness for these games
 
normazimuth said:
Can't you use sliders to make the cpu sharper?
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The balance between a ping pong CPU and not sharp enough is hard.
19 is pretty tough on ultimate ,but that scooby doo running that came in that game is quite horrible.
But I think 19 is a tough game might try more or tune my 17
 
Not sure where this sits, as I'm not necessarily comparing the games, but...


I'll stick my neck on the block and suggest this is better content than anything Konami will produce over the forthcoming football gaming season. I don't know what's going on, but I feel the hype. It uses the licences, the collaborations; it looks the part. Just 47 seconds.
 
Comparing both games for the same elements. Ligue 2 full licensed in both games since 2015.

PES 2021, typical generic scoreboards, typical generic PES package, just this year (thank god lol) KONAMI bothered to change the scoreboards colours in each league. Not a big change though , just the colours. Content EFFORT zero...
Even the transition screen watermark, that used to be the official league logo, when the league was Licensed, in older PES titles, is now the generic shitty e-FOOTBALL logo....Which e-Football logo is so bad implemented, that looks like drops framerate.

Same Ligue 2 in FIFA 2021, does the whole TV package, authentic French scoreboards and the pop-ups info, always better and to the point, by EA.

Timestamp 15:25

And here the usual excuse, "bad/evil EA that holds every license for themselves, DOES NOT EVEN APPLY!
 
manmachine said:
There's no "skill gap" in scoring long rangers! You have to prove your skillz by breaking down a defence and walking the ball into the net. Never mind that doing that is no big deal when 10 players just ball watch and there's zero resistance for 90% of the pitch. Seriously, "competitive" gaming can F-off. 🤣
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More in general:
You may know I found a new happy place in my sim racing cockpit for a few month now.:LOVE:
and some hours ago I was watching a live event organized by the community I subscribed to. its a fair community with a lot of „older users“, grown ups and an overall good behavior with each other. i am enjoying watching those races more than I enjoy watching F1 on tv. :)
anyway, that night something special happened. You could say so because this isn’t happening all the time but it did in this race. A rare thing…



sportman like behavior like this is such a joy to see. :APPLAUD: Opens my heart and makes me believe in a better (gaming) world.
when I think about football games, i want to experience the real thing on console first! Gimme a simulation of football and then gimme multiplayer that works and is fair. If that’s a given, sportsman like behavior is coming automatically, imo. Sure, the user itself is an important factor to consider but give them a fair and realistic video game and you have a base to start with. to a degree, you teach people with the tools you give them. Hope you get me.

you guys have a lovely Sunday. I’ll be watching (and probably shouting (wich is a form of support :) ) at) my mates playing the Sunday league match and having a few beer and Bratwurst at our home turf. :BEER::BSCARF:
 
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Apart from all the other problems that I had with Pes recently - one in particular stood out to me now.
Pes is very outdated and way too automated in the defense department.

If you managed to switch to Fifa (any Fifa) and if you managed to stick to it for longer period of time, playing on Tactical Defending - I honestly dont see how you can go back to Pes after.

Nowadays its all about attack. Dribbling, passing, AI movements - attack is being worked on coz people want goals. Many goals. To me - defending is as important as attacking. It has to be complex, it has to be satisfying, challenging and fun.

Even with Fifas brain dead defensive AI - if you learn to defend, if you get your head around slow and fast jockeying, shirts pulling, contain, soft tackles, hard tackles, fast sliding tackles - its bright as day how deep and complex defending can be.

Then you go back to Pes and you have... hold X. To position yourself you need to hang onto Super Cancel button, otherwise your player is all over the pitch.
Last time sliding tackles were effective in Pes17. Since then they are useless.
There is, literally, no defending in Pes. No risk/reward.

Last time Pes tried to do something good with defending was Pes20 demo, where you had to press tackle button and you really had to learn to time it right. Sliding tackles were effective, physicality was brilliant, stamina was punishing when you tried to pressure constantly.
Then kids started screaming that defending is too hard and every tackle is a foul, so Konami changed everything and abandoned defending.

Now I dont know what the new game will bring, but once again main focus is on dribbling and showing how great and easy will be to trick defenders.
On the trailer defenders are just spectators, looking at Iniesta while he is dancing around them. They dont put up a fight.
This direction might be fun for some, but I need a balance between attack and defense. I need to have a weapon to fight them. I want to be able to destroy them.

And as it stands - even with braindead AI team mates in Fifa - defending is much more challenging and fun for me there.
 
Fifa's defense system theoretically might be more advanced..but practically it still looks and feels like a parody mostly because of the player movement.
If players had proper weight,momentum and inertia in their moves..then it would feel nicer to intercept the ball with a tackle etc..but because most of their movement and passing animations are too rapid and weightless..it's too frustrating to intercept these roaches on steroids when they move or pass because it just happens too fucking unrealistically quick..and even when you intercept it or make a sliding tackle..you barely even feel it because it just feels so smooth and weightless..You feel like you're cutting hot butter with a knive or something..not like making a sliding tackle..I gotta admit though that at least with the Frostbite Fifas,it feels a bit more weighty in these situations..before it was even more softer and lighty..

Jockey is a good mechanic..but to use it more effectively you have to push both sprint and jockey at the same time..and that is one of the most ridiculous things i have seen in a football game..The player just glides on the pitch and has the weight of a feather..The contain command is basically useless..the player moves towards the opponent and then stops 4-5 meters away from him and can't get nearer because of some invisible wall..well i can do this myself with the left stick and go even nearer..why do i need this button..? The second man contain is a bit more usefull cause at least you can use one of them to cover some space..but it's still nowhere near usefull and effective as a second man press command which doesn't even exist..

PES' system may be more basic but it does it well and it feels right..players are not twitching like they're in a Matrix glitch and you can feel it when they intercept or make a sliding tackle..Second man press is a big plus to play tactically and put pressure on the opponent while covering space or passing lanes with the other player..Yes there are pressure whores online who just mindleslly push 2 buttons and chase you all over the pitch with two players and it makes it easier for them someone could say..but they're also leaving huge gaps behind and you can take advantage of that if you know what you're doing..If you see two good players playing eachother,they're not pressing mindleslly all the time,they use it when it's needed and they hold their ground and it can lead to good tactical games with few chances and goals where you have to take advantage when they will overcommit..Of course there are also games with many goals..anything can happen..In general i think that you can enjoy and appreciate more this game when you play it against a good human opponent..I know that's not the solution since most of you here only play offline..but i'm just saying..

The thing is that now with eFootball..it probably won't have a pressure command nor a second man press command from what it seems..so it goes more towards the Fifa system..We'll have to see how the movement feels though and how it behaves with this system..Personally i think that a football game needs these commands..otherwise there's too much space which you can't cover and it favours this 1v1 shit..At least the defensive line seems to play higher from the trailers we've seen so it may lead to a more conjestive midfield where the players are not too far away from eachother and you can cover spaces even without the pressure commands..
 
MKC said:
  1. which is that I can't see the entire width of the pitch.
  2. I especially love the way it looks on the first couple of seconds, before it zooms out, wish I could play on an angle similar to that.
  3. the modding community is fantastic and camera mods are one of the most standard things every year, which allow the player to make pretty much any camera they desire. Still, it's dissapointing, these games should come with way more camera options, and more significant customization sliders, right out of the box.
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hello there, i understand and agree with your frustation of camera settings in football games, so here are my comments about things you pointed out:
  1. yes this is how i want to play fifa, balance between interaction on the pitch but not too zoomed and still be able to see most of the pitch, especially the wing areas. late transitions of cameras also frustate me when using a more zoomed in settings.
  2. this could actually be achieved, u could always modify the camera settings to have more zoomed in/out modifiers, also there are individual files for each cam settings, so end-to-end specific edit could be made.
  3. as i said in point 2, it is posibble, i've tried it by increasing the camera height and zoom modifiers
 
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citizenkidd said:
hello there, i understand and agree with your frustation of camera settings in football games, so here are my comments about things you pointed out:
  1. yes this is how i want to play fifa, balance between interaction on the pitch but not too zoomed and still be able to see most of the pitch, especially the wing areas. late transitions of cameras also frustate me when using a more zoomed in settings.
  2. this could actually be achieved, u could always modify the camera settings to have more zoomed in/out modifiers, also there are individual files for each cam settings, so end-to-end specific edit could be made.
  3. as i said in point 2, it is posibble, i've tried it by increasing the camera height and zoom modifiers
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I'm sure I'd be able to customize the cameras into whatever I prefer on PC, my only problem is that my PC is terrible, barely runs games that my mobile phone runs no problem, I'm not even kidding, so for games like PES and FIFA all I have is console, which means that until Konami and EA decide to add more customization on console I'm stuck with the cameras we have now, and their limited customization. As soon as I'm done with college and start making some money my 1st major investment will be a decent PC, I want to finally play games with mods, sounds awesome, and then I'll customize those cameras until they are perfect for me, until then I'll have to be patient unfortunately.
 
A thought.
when I see, the most sim approach to a video football game in recent years is coming from talented modders, who not only share the same understanding of the sport as we do, but have the craftsmanship to translate that into a videogame (that is still fun to play)… I can only think of “all is lost” until the head of a studio (or whowever really is in charge of an IP’s strategy) is likeminded to the community we are.

edit: that’s probably the most pessimistic comment from my side… but the more I think about it...

enjoy life! :BEER:
 
Like most people here, I play games from both series - if it's a good game, I'm all over it. Don't care who it's made by.

But it has to be said - for me, FIFA 22 has left PES (eFootball) so far behind that it's actually cruel to compare them now. I turned PES 2021 on for a quick blast earlier and it's so tedious and repetitive. I'm not going to compare eFootball to FIFA 22 because: :LOL:

It's sad that my favourite gaming series of all time is over. PES launch day was the highlight of my year, as sad as that sounds. But it's over for Konami, we'll never get a package like FIFA 22 from them.

Gameplay is what matters of course - and FIFA 22 is so far ahead of anything that Konami have done recently.
 
I would agree if not the PC scene with the mods. I actually stopped playing PES2021 quite a while (even uninstalled it with all the mods I had at that time), but having played both fifa22 ng & pc. I decided to try pes2021 on pc once again, especially that all gameplay mods have changed/evloved quite a lot since I left, in a good way, and a lot of things were added in the mods in presentation, sound, etc. departments.

So I started to add all the mods I wanted, including also latest Holland's gameplay cpk mod (tried also others) and it is such an amazing game with those mods. It looks so beautifuly, plays amazing, responsivness is there, the modded turfs like @endo has so much details, it looks like a proper ng, there is even a mod for net phys that makes it almost like a fifa22 ng, a lot better than fifa22 pc for sure, camera mods, sound mods, @Hawke menu&ball mod, and plenty other that change the game significantly as an experience, including those gameplay mods. It is just completely different game than vanilla. It is just scary what community has done and Konami has never done, we should all praise those people, Konami should've given source code to that community at this point, I mean it really, @juce alone deserves that since decades. Having that done yday/today, I actually decided to go back to that modded pes21 since it just plays way better for me than fifa, including ng. At the end everyone has its own opinion I guess.
 
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ojejku said:
I would agree if not the PC scene with the mods. I actually stopped playing PES2021 quite a while (even uninstalled it with all the mods I had at that time), but having played both fifa22 ng & pc. I decided to try pes2021 on pc once again, especially that all gameplay mods have changed/evloved quite a lot since I left, in a good way, and a lot of things were added in the mods in presentation, sound, etc. departments.

So I started to add all the mods I wanted, including also latest Holland's gameplay cpk mod (tried also others) and it is such an amazing game with those mods. It looks so beautifuly, plays amazing, responsivness is there, the modded turfs like @endo has so much details, it looks like a proper ng, there is even a mod for net phys that makes it almost like a fifa22 ng, a lot better than fifa22 pc for sure, camera mods, sound mods, @Hawke menu&ball mod, and plenty other that change the game significantly as an experience, including those gameplay mods. It is just completely different game than vanilla. It is just scary what community has done and Konami has never done, we should all praise those people, Konami should've given source code to that community at this point, I mean it really, @juce alone deserves that since decades. Having that done yday/today, I actually decided to go back to that modded pes21 since it just plays way better for me than fifa, including ng. At the end everyone has its own opinion I guess.
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You’ve summed up my last week or so playing both. I do like FIFA 22, but it has also made me appreciate PES 21 more than I did before, oddly, particularly with Holland’s gameplay update and the thread that talked about dt18 combos.

I’m certain I’ll stick with both (along with FIFA 16) going forward. Tonight I played some matches as Arsenal and Valencia in FIFA and really enjoyed the games and atmosphere. Earlier this week I played some South American and African internationals on PES and loved it equally. I tend to play one-off matches and I’m really happy and feel spoiled with both. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 


Somebody just reminded me that this advert existed. Just watched it back and I've genuinely got goosebumps, shivers, the lot.

I remember thinking "that's what football games will play like and look like one day".

Wake me up when someone makes a football game about football again...
 
I’ve been testing the latest OS slider set today. Plays good as FIFA can be. If I need some glitter, I can have a quick match.
continued with PES2021 vanilla, wich is a good game too.
Installed the EF 004 Update. More stuff to test! 👏

have a good weekend y’all! 🥳
 
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One day, I want to see a podcast or vlogcast with @Matt10 and @The_Knight meeting and discussing football games and maybe we throw in some @Chris Davies , @Marlon Anthony and one of the footy united guys..!
That I’m not yet tired of discussing the topic and hanging with the community, playing either game from time to time (not being fully satisfied at all), could be due to my long time love for the sport and the games + their community in the past or the optimism for better times!
I nearly get more enjoyment out of interactions with certain members of the community than playing the current/latest games. 🤷‍♂️
I wish I couldnt like you guys because the games were so awesome! 😂😉
kidding!

:BYE:
 
PRO_TOO said:
I’ve been testing the latest OS slider set today. Plays good as FIFA can be. If I need some glitter, I can have a quick match.
continued with PES2021 vanilla, wich is a good game too.
Installed the EF 004 Update. More stuff to test! 👏

have a good weekend y’all! 🥳
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pes when the ball comes close to the penalty area, the game becomes as one dimensional as it can be, the prblem is the response and the variety of the outcome of the ball, this is where fifa shines, because so many unknown outcomes happen inside the penalty area in fifa, while in PES it s as rigid and one dimensional as it can, and this is the weakness of pes, i can t come back to pes 2021 after playing fifa 22 with os sliders..
 
Mikhail said:
Like most people here, I play games from both series - if it's a good game, I'm all over it. Don't care who it's made by.

But it has to be said - for me, FIFA 22 has left PES (eFootball) so far behind that it's actually cruel to compare them now. I turned PES 2021 on for a quick blast earlier and it's so tedious and repetitive. I'm not going to compare eFootball to FIFA 22 because: :LOL:

It's sad that my favourite gaming series of all time is over. PES launch day was the highlight of my year, as sad as that sounds. But it's over for Konami, we'll never get a package like FIFA 22 from them.

Gameplay is what matters of course - and FIFA 22 is so far ahead of anything that Konami have done recently.
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are u on the latest OS sliders from matt10?
 
PRO_TOO said:
One day, I want to see a podcast or vlogcast with @Matt10 and @The_Knight meeting and discussing football games and maybe we throw in some @Chris Davies , @Marlon Anthony and one of the footy united guys..!
That I’m not yet tired of discussing the topic and hanging with the community, playing either game from time to time (not being fully satisfied at all), could be due to my long time love for the sport and the games + their community in the past or the optimism for better times!
I nearly get more enjoyment out of interactions with certain members of the community than playing the current/latest games. 🤷‍♂️
I wish I couldnt like you guys because the games were so awesome! 😂😉
kidding!

:BYE:
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Well you don't need to ask me twice!
 
manmachine said:
This and how you can pass in almost any angle in a millisecond without even turning to face that direction. One moment the player is running towards one direction, next moment he launches a driven pass in a >90 degree angle from where he's looking, it just rockets past everyone and is perfectly controlled as well. These two things I can never look past when seeing videos (it's nothing new, but I suppose others are probably used to this passing by now).
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Agree.
Just gimme the eF dribbling and inertia, the whole “close quarter ball handling stuff” (plus how you can release and receive a ball, in FIFA and I’m probably good.

and back I am to the best of both worlds topic. 😂
 
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