FIFA 23 Discussion Thread (Console Versions)

Matt10 said:
Now, Chris, I didn't say it's the best it's ever been because of only "off-the-ball...", I gave an entire list that builds towards that. I'd agree with you that would be crazy talk. The irony is that I would never have noticed those off-the-ball mannerisms if I wasn't enjoying the gameplay. It made me uncertain in thinking "has this stuff been here all along?" - and I still wonder.

Furthermore, and a significant point, is that I'm approaching that list AFTER sliders have been implemented. Let's make that clear because my opinion on those games you mention are also after sliders have been exhausted.

They each had their faults, and some of those faults were significant - and very tough to get over. I may not want to live in the past because I remember how tough it was to get over some of those basic fundamentals in which the sliders wouldn't even get near touching. From my perspective, I can adjust a value in 23 and know exactly what it does, because there is immediate feedback on it. FIFA 16 didn't even do that. Look throughout the OS threads, which serve as documentation of gameplay for these iterations of FIFA.

FIFA 16
https://forums.operationsports.com/...ders/855682-fifa-16-os-community-sliders.html

FIFA 18
https://forums.operationsports.com/...ders/915625-fifa-18-os-community-sliders.html

FIFA 14
- So old, they removed my sliders thread lol. Here's the final slider set I had for it, which explained my thoughts at the time.

Look at each of those threads and there are resounding themes. Each of them had the issue of the defenders not meeting attackers, which is so significant that it works this year. That just builds the resistance we've craved. Two of the three had DAA (defensive angle animation) which were big issues. Each of those games had the dribble-dribble-pass mentality from the CPU, with FIFA 16 being slightly less with that approach - especially ootb - absolutely brilliant and I remember how much we would get giddy like girls whenever a long-ball was performed. FIFA 14 had the very common tendency, especially on Legendary, for the CPU to chip a ball over the top as their route one. FIFA 16 route one was driven passes, which is the first year that was introduced. FIFA 18, with its small ball size, had a whole host of issues, in particular the directness to the strikers - who are then left alone because defenders won't meet them.

Each of those FIFA versions you mention took a lot of work to accomplish what FIFA 23, with sliders, is doing. I'm not blowing smoke up EA's butt, and I'm not boasting FIFA Operation Sports sliders. I'm saying that with obvious slider values, the items on that list have been accomplished. Basically the tool we've been given works, and we're seeing a different game than I thought had ever had a chance of appearing when I had the beta.
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Out of curiosity have you played any of the older titles recently? 14-16? Possibly even 17?
 
Chris Davies said:
@Matt10, are you not finding that (with or without your sliders - but the video below is with your v4 sliders)...

...every AI team, on World Class or Legendary, just passes to the furthest-forward player ASAP?

No midfield, no dribbling even - just aggressively ping-pong passing to the striker, mostly in ruler-straight lines through the centre, from the whistle? It's the most horribly basic AI I've experienced in FIFA:



Never mind "midfielders don't track back", the midfield just doesn't exist defensively.

This is one example but I've already uploaded two others, where you can clearly see the AI just passing FORWARD-FORWARD-FORWARD in straight lines - the white team in both clips:





This is just basketball, with or without sliders, with all teams, for me. I'm using all your slider recommendations (including controller settings) - is this not happening to you constantly? If not, what could I be doing wrong?

Over at Operation Sports, at least one other person is having the same issue:

1nyiNe0.png
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Right, Chris. Do you really think that if that was happening 100% of the time that I, Brad, Coach, JRn - just to name a few, would say "yes, this okay." It happens, it's part of the FIFA game. Singling out clips means you omit the times they don't do that. Shall I go ahead and post my clips that show they don't do that as often? It sounds incredibly petty to me.

@Anth James - again, same as Chris, I can do the exact same thing. That generally happens, but it's not always 100% the case. By the logic that it happens consistently, there would never be an offsides call. I agree it's terrible programming - and we found it completely unnecessary. I mean, I even posted it on the FIFA 22 sliders OP with a clear video showing that and explaining why we had to change certain values to compensate.

You guys are grabbing these instances and stating them as if they are the norm. Unfortunately, for your arguments, they aren't. If it were, then it would be a significant issue. I think you'd give myself, and individuals that you know and respect, the consideration that we're not naive or trying to force ourselves to like something.

You wonder why guys like myself or @saturator post our entire gameplay clips or reference streams in hopes to at least show the game we're experiencing, but the only things that get picked out are the bad parts of FIFA. You're in a FIFA thread, you're going to get feedback on the good and the bad. For every bad part you can pick out, a good part can be returned. From there it's about which is more consistent - then which is more game-breaking and game-changing. That's gameplay in a nutshell, and when it comes to FIFA - heck even PES, you accept that sacrifices will be made, but you try your best with the tools given to bridge the gap as much as possible.
 
Matt10 said:
Right, Chris. Do you really think that if that was happening 100% of the time that I, Brad, Coach, JRn - just to name a few, would say "yes, this okay." It happens, it's part of the FIFA game. Singling out clips means you omit the times they don't do that. Shall I go ahead and post my clips that show they don't do that as often? It sounds incredibly petty to me.

@Anth James - again, same as Chris, I can do the exact same thing. That generally happens, but it's not always 100% the case. By the logic that it happens consistently, there would never be an offsides call. I agree it's terrible programming - and we found it completely unnecessary. I mean, I even posted it on the FIFA 22 sliders OP with a clear video showing that and explaining why we had to change certain values to compensate.

You guys are grabbing these instances and stating them as if they are the norm. Unfortunately, for your arguments, they aren't. If it were, then it would be a significant issue. I think you'd give myself, and individuals that you know and respect, the consideration that we're not naive or trying to force ourselves to like something.

You wonder why guys like myself or @saturator post our entire gameplay clips or reference streams in hopes to at least show the game we're experiencing, but the only things that get picked out are the bad parts of FIFA. You're in a FIFA thread, you're going to get feedback on the good and the bad. For every bad part you can pick out, a good part can be returned. From there it's about which is more consistent - then which is more game-breaking and game-changing. That's gameplay in a nutshell, and when it comes to FIFA - heck even PES, you accept that sacrifices will be made, but you try your best with the tools given to bridge the gap as much as possible.
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I don't think it's about lack of respect Matt. I respect the work you do (and have done), as well as the approach you take.

I'm able to see positives in games and weigh up what is good and what is bad etc as well. I'm not just bashing for the sake of bashing.

I'm consistently working on trying to get the most out of various football games as well. Almost exclusively, the only games I play are football games - I can take the good with the bad. But if we don't point out the bad, or show examples then how do we make progress?

For me, I think the fundamentals are not only just broken, but are continuing to break in various ways. That's not to say that EVERY aspect of the game is bad or not improving. I think some aspects of the game are good. That clip I posted was within the first 3 minutes of me playing. In my experience, this is a fundamental issue that has been happening since FIFA 22. I've been speaking about it since I first got 22 NG last year.

For me, it IS something that happens consistently. Maybe not every time, but it is a significant pattern and it's a problem. This issue and the 1v1 issue have been the two issues I've spoken about. I'm not picking up a different issue every time - it's the same two. I've posted about these on EA forums, I've put posts on twitter etc, I've done what I'm able to. Also, I'm not posting full matches because I'm not simply trying to say 'FIFA = BAD. The End'. I'm trying to highlight some specific issues that I'd like FIXED. Not by you, by EA. I can grab 100 examples of the same problem and make a compilation if that will help - and I'd do it if I thought multiple versions of it would. I try to compare to examples of other games where it isn't happening, or where the right fundamental action is happening.

My comparing newer titles to older ones such as FIFA 16 doesn't mean I think 16 is the perfect game - I, like many other know there are issues in these games also. But fundamentally it's not even a close contest about which one gives you a more pure footballing experience. If I play the Switch legacy version of 23 on the Ignite engine I can play 10+ minute halves, have some great games and not even think about positioning or fundamentals. If I play 20, 21, 22 or 23 Frostbite (and I don't think it's just an engine issue, but for the sake of reference) they hit me over the hit in the first couple of minutes.

It's important to note that I'm not negating your approach of trying to get the best out of the gameplay, by also pointing out the fact that the fundamentals need addressing.

I also haven't said you've forced yourself to like the game at all. You've definitely improved it, but again this isn't taking away from the fact that the fundamentals need fixing.

You've agreed with me about the fact that it happens. You also agreed it's terrible programming. Outside of that I don't really see what we're disagreeing about.
 
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All I'll post here is I'm really enjoying Fifa 23. It really appeals to what I'm looking for in a football game. I've even scored a few belters. I'd also have to thank @Matt10 for his commitment and efforts in perfecting as much as possible the sliders.

I will say with this Fifa though, I think FUMA might have to be the way again (outside of the crossing, which is broken according to Matt). But I am enjoying the game a great deal tbh.

Just waiting for the 'pros' to bitch and whine that the game doesn't play like Mario Smash football which leads to the usual update nonsense. Please don't listen to those clowns, EA
 
Matt10 said:
Singling out clips means you omit the times they don't do that. Shall I go ahead and post my clips that show they don't do that as often? It sounds incredibly petty to me.
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@Matt10, I posted three clips to show it's not an "isolated incident" and that I'm not being petty. The only reason I'm posting the clips is to try and showcase the issue for the sake of diagnosis and discussion. I'll happily post a full match clip if you think I'm being a dick, here.

In all my games, from minute one, the AI insta-passes the ball to the striker, bypassing the midfield. For the clips I've just booted FIFA, played a random game, it's immediately happened, I've clipped it. (The latter two are on World Class and Legendary to show it's not a difficulty issue.)

I want to play a football game this year... but I can't stop this constant AI breaking happening. Do you have any recent whole-match clips so I can compare my whole match experience to yours? Cos I genuinely feel like we're playing different games and I would like to see what I'm missing (I know @saturator has posted lots of great clips, but he's a FUMA player and I'm a semi-player, so I'd be comparing apples with oranges).

You play on PC, right? Even wondering if that's part of it.
 
Nisoley said:
I remember one particular game of FIFA World Cup 2010. I played the South American qualifying round with Uruguay and I had an away match against Bolivia. I lost this game 7:1 and you know why? EA implemented that you lost more stamina in Bolivia because of the height. Unbelievable, I'll never forget this game.
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Really? That's unbelievable and they didn't have to do that either, I'm sure no one would criticise them.

I mean now you can barely tell the difference between a game in South America or Japan on these games. Everything other than the shape of the stadium itself is so generic and uniform.
 
Still having a blast on this - not many slider adjustments just pass error and pass speed.

Custom tournament world class and out of 5 games ive had one high scoring one 4-2 where i was steam rolling Mexico as Argentina 4-0 until they pressed like mad in the last 15 and scored twice.
The only issues i have is handballs, ive had to turn them off because of silly free kicks and pens (im sure they will sort that)
All my other games have been close 1-1, 2-1 etc.

They have deffo changed the pens as you couldnt miss before - ive now scored 1 in 8 (missed all 5 on a shootout and missed 2 out of 3 in my cup

I really like what they have done with the defense now - right button to get your men tracking the runners then right stick flick to take over when ready - once you get the hang of it you feel you have full control
 
Thanks to the hero that is @Placebo (a true king of this place), I managed to try the PC version.

Placebo is getting 0-0s, and yet - with his exact settings (apart from his awful controller button assignments - sorry but shoot will always be the circle/B button to me)...

I played as Burnley v Sheffield United and it was 2-1 within 13 minutes, 3-1 within 20 minutes, 4-2 at half time.

This was even on FUMA, which I don't normally play, but the AI defence backed off so far (World Class difficulty) it was easy to line up shots.

I'm so confused as to what's going on here. I've increased match length, played on FUMA, tried every difficulty, sliders and no sliders. Still, every AI opponent (and I mean practically every single time they have possession) hits 4-5 passes max before they're in on goal, bypassing the entire midfield, on World Class and Legendary.

I'm so confused.
 
Really enjoying this game. Feel like my sliders are somewhere near i have been enjoying 20 min half games .
 
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Chris Davies said:
Thanks to the hero that is @Placebo (a true king of this place), I managed to try the PC version.

Placebo is getting 0-0s, and yet - with his exact settings (apart from his awful controller button assignments - sorry but shoot will always be the circle/B button to me)...

I played as Burnley v Sheffield United and it was 2-1 within 13 minutes, 3-1 within 20 minutes, 4-2 at half time.

This was even on FUMA, which I don't normally play, but the AI defence backed off so far (World Class difficulty) it was easy to line up shots.

I'm so confused as to what's going on here. I've increased match length, played on FUMA, tried every difficulty, sliders and no sliders. Still, every AI opponent (and I mean practically every single time they have possession) hits 4-5 passes max before they're in on goal, bypassing the entire midfield, on World Class and Legendary.

I'm so confused.
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For me the line length and height are really important here. My height is 30 and length is 5 with width at 40. Instantly creates a midfield battle.
 
Chris Davies said:
Thanks to the hero that is @Placebo (a true king of this place), I managed to try the PC version.

Placebo is getting 0-0s, and yet - with his exact settings (apart from his awful controller button assignments - sorry but shoot will always be the circle/B button to me)...

I played as Burnley v Sheffield United and it was 2-1 within 13 minutes, 3-1 within 20 minutes, 4-2 at half time.

This was even on FUMA, which I don't normally play, but the AI defence backed off so far (World Class difficulty) it was easy to line up shots.

I'm so confused as to what's going on here. I've increased match length, played on FUMA, tried every difficulty, sliders and no sliders. Still, every AI opponent (and I mean practically every single time they have possession) hits 4-5 passes max before they're in on goal, bypassing the entire midfield, on World Class and Legendary.

I'm so confused.
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Because you're playing this game wrong. This game isn't designed to be played offline and be stimulating or deep and tactical.

You're supposed to play this online as a casual end to end game like you're in the arcades at the seaside or the funfair. It's a social game, the only difference is you don't have to be in the same building together and have a laugh about it, your isolated in your room getting frustrated with a total stranger on the other side of the world instead so the social element is redundant and it's merely a brainwashing device to get you to think you have to resort to spending money to increase your chances of winning more, meaningless online games and rinse/repeat.

You've just got to accept you just can't play this game the same way we played FIFA 10-16 anymore & make peace with it.
 
Marlon Anthony said:
Because you're playing this game wrong. This game isn't designed to be played offline and be stimulating or deep and tactical.

You're supposed to play this online as a casual end to end game like you're in the arcades at the seaside or the funfair. It's a social game, the only difference is you don't have to be in the same building together and have a laugh about it, your isolated in your room getting frustrated with a total stranger on the other side of the world instead so the social element is redundant and it's merely a brainwashing device to get you to think you have to resort to spending money to increase your chances of winning more, meaningless online games and rinse/repeat.

You've just got to accept you just can't play this game the same way we played FIFA 10-16 anymore & make peace with it.
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Serious question: How can you play a football game where cpu AI NEVER crosses the ball in the box from both sides?
Sorry, this was meant for Matt.
 
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Chris Davies said:
@Matt10, I posted three clips to show it's not an "isolated incident" and that I'm not being petty. The only reason I'm posting the clips is to try and showcase the issue for the sake of diagnosis and discussion. I'll happily post a full match clip if you think I'm being a dick, here.

In all my games, from minute one, the AI insta-passes the ball to the striker, bypassing the midfield. For the clips I've just booted FIFA, played a random game, it's immediately happened, I've clipped it. (The latter two are on World Class and Legendary to show it's not a difficulty issue.)

I want to play a football game this year... but I can't stop this constant AI breaking happening. Do you have any recent whole-match clips so I can compare my whole match experience to yours? Cos I genuinely feel like we're playing different games and I would like to see what I'm missing (I know @saturator has posted lots of great clips, but he's a FUMA player and I'm a semi-player, so I'd be comparing apples with oranges).

You play on PC, right? Even wondering if that's part of it.
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Think we might be playing different games, not sure, mate. Sure you don't have the beta still installed? I'm on PS5 btw, haven't played PC since last year just to see if sliders transfered.

Your feedback about the passing has helped us look into more options to get more build up though. Now seeing a lot mroe passes and pass variety from the CPU. Brad is streaming now actually:

 
Chris Davies said:
Thanks to the hero that is @Placebo (a true king of this place), I managed to try the PC version.

Placebo is getting 0-0s, and yet - with his exact settings (apart from his awful controller button assignments - sorry but shoot will always be the circle/B button to me)...

I played as Burnley v Sheffield United and it was 2-1 within 13 minutes, 3-1 within 20 minutes, 4-2 at half time.

This was even on FUMA, which I don't normally play, but the AI defence backed off so far (World Class difficulty) it was easy to line up shots.

I'm so confused as to what's going on here. I've increased match length, played on FUMA, tried every difficulty, sliders and no sliders. Still, every AI opponent (and I mean practically every single time they have possession) hits 4-5 passes max before they're in on goal, bypassing the entire midfield, on World Class and Legendary.

I'm so confused.
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How did you play pc version, using p2p app? I forgot name of app.
 
Pagi84 said:
How did you play pc version, using p2p app? I forgot name of app.
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I use Parsec to play games with friends and it's generally flawless, highly recommend it - but no, he very kindly offered his EA account login details to me so I could download and play for a little while.

This is what makes it so weird - he's having 0-0s, and all his settings ported over via hospitality settings etc. (so I was playing FUMA with all Matt's sliders), and yet my game was 2-1 within a couple of minutes (real-time).

Even if I purposefully slow up my build-up play to stop myself scoring (which is ridiculous), as soon as the AI get the ball, it's just PASSPASSPASSshot. Just like the beta was. I don't get it.
 
Chris Davies said:
Thanks to the hero that is @Placebo (a true king of this place), I managed to try the PC version.

Placebo is getting 0-0s, and yet - with his exact settings (apart from his awful controller button assignments - sorry but shoot will always be the circle/B button to me)...

I played as Burnley v Sheffield United and it was 2-1 within 13 minutes, 3-1 within 20 minutes, 4-2 at half time.

This was even on FUMA, which I don't normally play, but the AI defence backed off so far (World Class difficulty) it was easy to line up shots.

I'm so confused as to what's going on here. I've increased match length, played on FUMA, tried every difficulty, sliders and no sliders. Still, every AI opponent (and I mean practically every single time they have possession) hits 4-5 passes max before they're in on goal, bypassing the entire midfield, on World Class and Legendary.

I'm so confused.
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That happened to me when I was playing in SLOW speed. After switching to NORMAL speed and with Matt's sliders, I am actually enjoying the game more than FIFA 20/21/22 and PES 2021/22. The midfield is finally actually doing something and the players have stopped ping ponging in the box(playing on World Class helped too). I am still having issues with through pass but I think there is a glitch with the selection that can be fixed. I don't mind the gameplay now as much. It's still arcadey but atleast it's starting to show some fun random elements.
 
Chris Davies said:
This is what makes it so weird - he's having 0-0s, and all his settings ported over via hospitality settings etc. (so I was playing FUMA with all Matt's sliders), and yet my game was 2-1 within a couple of minutes (real-time).
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So, hold on, I didnt get that at first.
What you are saying is - you had same hardware (PC), same settings and you were also playing FUMA and you got crazy scoreline?

So either
A) slow speed is bolloxed, as I have seen it being mentioned in few places (post above included)
B) maybe you should consider eSport, Mr. Chrisnaldo...
 
Emroth said:
What you are saying is - you had same hardware (PC), same settings and you were also playing FUMA and you got crazy scoreline?

So either
A) slow speed is bolloxed, as I have seen it being mentioned in few places (post above included)
B) maybe you should consider eSport, Mr. Chrisnaldo...
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But Placebo plays on slow speed too, with Matt's sliders. PC version, on FUMA. I used all his settings and there were three goals within two real-time minutes (I took pictures and clips, but people are sick of seeing them, so I just sent them to Placebo instead). :LOL:

But his games with these settings are 0-0. (It's not me being good at the game - the AI scored too, in-fact the AI totally bypassing the midfield constantly is the biggest issue).

I know how to use the defending system, but my midfield are traffic cones, and 4-5 passes later the AI are shooting. Literally the only thing keeping every shot from going in is the shot error slider.

I believe this isn't happening to everyone but I'll be damned if I can figure it out.
 
Chris Davies said:
From a "realism" standpoint and a "fun" standpoint respectively (because they are independent of each other)
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I couldn't disagree more with this. Realism can be fun, and they needn't be independent of one another.

To be honest both the current offerings have their share of realism and what that realism is can vary from user to user. What also can vary from user to user is what they are willing tolerate regards lack of realism, or that which they don't find fun.

For me, I'm at peace with FIFA23, at the moment. It's scratching an itch while I at least feel like I have barely scratched the surface with it. That's good enough for me, and happen to think the game is largely realistic on a moment to moment basis, and within a pretty narrow scope, literally; I zooom the camera in to reduce seeing too much which may bother me. Helps me just focus on that moment to moment.
 
Chris Davies said:
But Placebo plays on slow speed too, with Matt's sliders. PC version, on FUMA. I used all his settings and there were three goals within two real-time minutes (I took pictures and clips, but people are sick of seeing them, so I just sent them to Placebo instead). :LOL:

But his games with these settings are 0-0. (It's not me being good at the game - the AI scored too, in-fact the AI totally bypassing the midfield constantly is the biggest issue).

I know how to use the defending system, but my midfield are traffic cones, and 4-5 passes later the AI are shooting. Literally the only thing keeping every shot from going in is the shot error slider.

I believe this isn't happening to everyone but I'll be damned if I can figure it out.
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I'm actually playing on normal speed as slow was too slow, believe it or not! ;)
 
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