PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
When I went back and played 22 after testing 23 till slider set 3, 22 played better, imo. Less skaty… and that has to mean something. Just my feelings.
FIFA 23 Discussion Thread (Console Versions)
- Thread starter Chris Davies
- Start date
Are these exclusive contracts though?
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
And when I can see it’s tamed, because to me there is no fixing of the fundamental flaws anymore, I can’t get over those transitions! May it look better now (with the sliders) when moving with a player overall, when receiving a ball or just turning (the close quarter stuff) it looks so off to me. Can’t unsee this and it looks worse than in 22, imo.
And I have another fifa game that does it so well and keeps me reminding how off this one here is playing out.
man, how I wish it would play more like football and I still dig all your efforts… 👏
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Jay-Jay 10
League 1
- 6 July 2021
From the Premier League Partner Page:
EA SPORTS holds the Premier League's exclusive Electronic Game Licence, which enables it to deliver the most authentic gaming experience possible for fans of Premier League clubs and players.
- Staff
- #1,775
Problem is that any company that tries to get into football games is just making clone of Fifa, or at least its mindset. Online focused, fast, arcade.
We havent had a single attempt to create a football sim since forever.
Its typical risk/reward scenario.
You have to create something fresh, so it doesnt feel like a cheap copy of a game that has 20+ years of experience and is full of licenses. Fifa clones are doomed unless someone is brave enough to try something new.
And call me crazy, but I would bet that if a game was developed from AI up, instead of User vs User gameplay - game like this would be a huge success even online.
Maybe eSport players like the bloke above wouldnt like it, but lets be honest - he is not there to play football. He is playing pinball like an old arcade machines.
"Normal" online players would most likely love game based on stats, logic, tactics and thinking.
Hatrickhero
Championship
- 8 March 2021
I'm certain they can legally drop the exclusivity based on the fact there's not authentic gaming experience.
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
I'd argue that option is already in the game with a combination of fuma controls and pro clubs
as for the video, he's literally like the best player in the world and in the competitive scene, meaning he's exploiting the game to maximum. if he was playing pes6 some of you would be criticsing how shit the game looks. because it would look shit and not like real football with that type of player playing, exploiting everything.
- Thread starter
- Staff
- #1,779
Nope, absolutely not, no no no. Just one example - the physics are modified so that tackles result in you coming away with the ball more often, because of the frustration of eSports players who aren't "rewarded" for their action (i.e. regaining possession). Because "a game should be a game".
This isn't groundless speculation, this is something they have stated in their "Pitch Notes" when making changes to suit the online players, who dictate the entire game for all of us.
This isn't to mention the AI - yes, Pro Clubs has more human players, but it still needs AI to position itself correctly defensively, which it currently just doesn't (all players standing miles apart to ensure no "AI defending").
This is a couple of examples out of hundreds. So no, you cannot make this game into a simulation. Not even modders can do that. The fake physics cannot be magically fixed, and defensive, resistive AI that acts as a team (not 1v1) cannot be magically plugged into the game.
You're having fun - that's cool - but you're not playing a simulation. Even @Matt10, who makes sliders to make the game more fun, will admit the AI issues will always persist and cannot be fixed. This is not a simulation.
No amount of sliders or the use of full manual (which I personally dislike, I prefer semi) will fix the Assassins Creed style of defending where the AI sends 1 player to confront the ball carrier in a 1v1 scenario whilst the other AI players back off and watch in anticipation of the outcome. Its just like AssCreed but now in sports form.
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
pro clubs is up to 11v11. human defenders
- Staff
- #1,782
You simply cannot say that the game gives you an option to become football simulation if you just replace 22 players with people.
Im sorry, but this is just ridiculous statement.
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
is there a football game that didnt do that with tackles? did the best pes games 4-6 have an entirely free ball and free physics?
What football game has ever matched the level of simulation your are arguing for? I want to know which bar you are comparing to.
Because i'm not saying fifa 23 is a perfecty simulation, far from it. heck fifa 16 was better. but fuma pro clubs is pretty damn satisfying and the closet i get to real football than i have anywhere else, even in the classic pes days
as for pro clubs, like i said it's up to 11v11 so bad ai can be minimised or taken out of the equation entirely if you play with a full team
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
Why not? It's an option in the game isn't it.
- Staff
- #1,785
Its like saying Super Mario Kart is a racing sim if you only replace all AI with your mates..
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
Hell, fill the grid up with Hamiltons and Verstappens… not gonna change the game!
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
If they avoid picking up the power ups (exploits) and use FUMA gear shifting then it's a sim!
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
it would make it be more sim though wouldn't it?
i know people here hate fifa, and im not saying fifa 23 is a pure sim or the best sim. but pro clubs is the most sim mode, and i reckon a lot of people complaining about this stuff might find some of what theyre looking if they gave fuma clubs a proper go
thats all. now i'll let you go back to hating the game lol
I wish we could get away from this simulation talk. There isn't a fifa or pes that has been a simulation period. PES 17 with its floating goslies was one of my favourites but not close to a simulation and neither were any of the older ones. Same goes for FIFA workd Cup and 2010 .
- Thread starter
- Staff
- #1,790
Some of us have no game to play because of how far they've strayed from "game of football" to "1v1 battle game with a balloon for a ball".
If EA was reading this forum, and decided to keep going down the line of "it's just a game" because of posts like yours, making excuses for all of the horrendous shortcomings (if you want a game that's anything close to football, in physics, in AI, in tactics or in any way other than the licenses) because it's fun in the same way Fortnite is, I'd be pretty annoyed.
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
exactly. thats why i asked what bar people are comparing to
ultimately i wouldnt desribe any of my all time favourite football games as simulation. not pes 5, not pes 6, not fifa 16
but there are options and modes in fifa to help bring out sim like elements
- Staff
- #1,792
You're entirely missing the point here.
You simply cannot say that a game is giving you an option to play it as a sim if this option is not viable for 90% of people.
90% of people simply cannot commit to have scheduled games like that and gather another 21 players at any given time.
Thats the problem. Its not something that anyone can try.
You are lucky to have time and mates to do this, but most people simply dont.
Therefore you cant use this argument to say that Fifa is a sim game.
Hate is a very strong word. When it comes to Fifa23 - im 100% indifferent.
Just cant stay quiet when people say something that doesnt make any sense.
- Thread starter
- Staff
- #1,793
You're playing fully-manual online, I'm playing semi-assisted offline and trying to get a realistic Career Mode going. We need two different things in essence. But if you're going to bring up the old games and tell me they're not simulations...
Let me repeat what I said days ago - I played some PS2 PES 2008 the other day, and half my passes went out of play because I'm so used to just pushing forward and "pass". That's how used I am to FIFA (where I use semi-passing) and every single pass making it, and every single ball-control being perfect (bringing down 100mph passes like there's no skill required).
Again, one example of hundreds (trying to do crazy passes with players who have poor passing attributes = giving the ball away, but never in FIFA because it's just "too frustrating" for the FUT player).
It is categorical, in my opinion. Football games are now dumber than ever before, and less of any kind of interpretation of football (and let's not forget, IT'S SUPPOSED to be a football game).
If this was FIFA Arcade 23, I'd be fine with it. But it's SUPPOSED to be a game about football, and it's the only one we've got. You might be able to make the best of that (along with the sliders guys) but they fix nothing. They slow it down, they make the 1v1 defender more aggressive, but they don't fix the midfield resistance, team defending, attribution-importance...
The older games had all of that. And no need for sliders.
Games tried to be as sim-based as they could (within reason) up until around FIFA 16. Then, the "games should be games" revolution started. They are much lesser simulations now.
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
did pes 2008 have free ball and tackle physics?
i know fifa game has problems. i've complained about them myself a lot ever since frostbite.
but i'd still argue that fuma + pro club options make fifa a better sim than the old pes games, on the whole.
you can point to weird physics, but i can point to an amazing team goal with many passes and every player manually aiming and powering their shots. that feels amazing and like real football to me, and cannot be re3plicated in the old games.
given the option between an old pes game (even if it was remastered and everyone was still playing it) and fifa 23, i'm picking 23 everytime.
I'm picking fifa 23 everytime offline but I'm going ro try online 1v1 full manual soon. Last year people moaned about tracking back although I never had an issue on NG . Same complaints this year yet you can trigger defensive tracking and works really well , there's just no pleasing some peopledid pes 2008 have free ball and tackle physics?
i know fifa game has problems. i've complained about them myself a lot ever since frostbite.
but i'd still argue that fuma + pro club options make fifa a better sim than the old pes games, on the whole.
you can point to weird physics, but i can point to an amazing team goal with many passes and every player manually aiming and powering their shots. that feels amazing and like real football to me, and cannot be re3plicated in the old games.
given the option between an old pes game (even if it was remastered and everyone was still playing it) and fifa 23, i'm picking 23 everytime.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
"We never had a true simulation" can't become an argument to not critic all this nonsense EA is regularly proposing us since now years. I'm sorry but it just can't.
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
careful if youre looking for 1v1's on the discord, some of the best manual players are on there 😂
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
That's great and it still doesn't mean anything at all. Pro clubs is irrelevant if you don't want to play pro clubs.
Imagine if we suggested you replace your human players with AI and play CM as a substitute for pro clubs. You would think we're crazy. The dumb AI is a problem for all modes that need AI, it's not hard to understand that.
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fallensoldier
Conference
- 5 January 2010
Question if you can assist. If I turn on my fifa 23 now and go to career mode can I experience the sim gameplay you're talking about. If I switch to fuma will I experience this sim gameplay. Will I experience my fBs making overlapping runs. My players engaging and not standing like statues. My players suitably tracking runners , players not turning at 1000x speed etc. Because all the old pes games had all that at the core at the very least and that's vs AI. Based on your logic to play a sim (it still doesn't make it one btw), I have to only play PRO club and have 11 friends who are willing to do the same.
JUNEFUMA
FULL MANUAL CONTROLS
- 10 October 2021
thats true. i was just pointing out it's more of a sim mode and that it's an option for people
1v1 is pretty trash in my eyes so no. thats why i didnt recommend that mode
old pes also didnt have pro clubs mode with human players who are more sim than the ai
again, i'm talking on the whole.