FIFA 22 Discussion (Console Versions)

Mikhail said:
Everyone will still buy the game though. This is the issue.

Consumers, IF they hate it so much - vote with their wallets. I didn’t buy FIFA 21 and I won’t buy 22. I’m just a drop in the ocean but if enough people did this EA would sit up and notice.
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Same here ,neither FIFA 21 or PES 21 was bought.
(On game pass though)
 
Chuny said:
That's because you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
If there were more football games, people would not buy the games just to have 30% worth of improvements over last year's version. Every year.
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I disagree. I’ve been playing lots old football games of late and having a blast. You don’t even need a powerful PC to play an older game with some mods for current day kits, squads etc.

People moan about fifa every year, they moan about exactly the same issues yet still spend money on it. Year-in, year-out.

The famous Einstein quote comes to mind.
 
Chris Davies said:
Re: the "interview" (with the interviewer very obviously reading a meticulously-crafted script as he spoke)...
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Ha, I thought this too. The whole thing. It was bizarre how they managed to script the whole thing in advance and yet also make it feel incredibly inorganic. Like, guys, you had all the time in the world to get that right...!
saturator said:
A lots of good things on paper but i want to see with my dualsense.
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You get a like for that phrase, my man! :LOL:
 
Chuny said:
That's because you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
If there were more football games, people would not buy the games just to have 30% worth of improvements over last year's version. Every year.
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I will buy it and I hate myself for it (and I know at least one other person here does too - sorry if you're reading this ;))).

The best hope we have is that sales drop, so they start to listen to non-influencers... But sports game are a unique thing.

A sports game doesn't have to be good, to sell.

People who love football, watch football, and then want to play football. Right now, there's only one football game on the market. Let's be honest - PES doesn't count when you look at the sales numbers, and I'd wager over 50% who buy PES (or play the free version) also buy FIFA. So sales will never drop.
 
My two penneth on it:

I wasn't that impressed myself. The most important part got the least attention, "Tactical AI". It seemed to me like they wanted us to make an implicit association between their new team-based mocap system and the tactical on-pitch shapes, but actually, they didn't show any of that in action and they didn't explicitly state it.

That's because it looks like the main reason they're feeding this team mocap data in is that it produces slightly more organic-looking animations. They wanted to simulate a real match so that they can make "more realistic" the individual player's animations, not so that they can use and implement data regarding tactical shapes, etc.

Literally the only example they showed of "new" tactical shapes was a back 4 staying compact and moving horizontally as a unit. They explained this Tactical AI (gotta put these buzzwords in caps, after all!) was made possible by the "new tech" (i.e. better CPU-GPU on next-gen consoles), allowing them to process "decisions" at x rate quicker than before. But, clearly, getting tactical shapes right doesn't require insane computing power – we had it two generations ago. So it just sounded like they were fobbing everyone off with that stuff, and actually the only real improvements are to individual animations, which they've economised as a data capturing process by putting on a whole game of players in mocap suits.
 
Mikhail said:
I disagree. I’ve been playing lots old football games of late and having a blast. You don’t even need a powerful PC to play an older game with some mods for current day kits, squads etc.

People moan about fifa every year, they moan about exactly the same issues yet still spend money on it. Year-in, year-out.

The famous Einstein quote comes to mind.
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Oh yeah, of course you can always go back and play older versions but there's always something lacking.
For example, I've always loved PES 2013 but last time I tried to play it, the animations looked so weird, from the gamepad directions to the lack of organic motion from the players. I can't play it anymore.
Same with PES 5 or 6. And Even FIFA 08, 13 or 16 (awful player models among other things I now dislike in otherwise great games).
 
Chuny said:
That's because you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
If there were more football games, people would not buy the games just to have 30% worth of improvements over last year's version. Every year.
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I could see their atrempt to combine the two (realism and fast response) by combining the two in a smart way. But How? By simply simplifying things If that makes sense.

There's a short clip of player taking a touch with his chest, letting the ball drops First and then taking the ball on a Sprint. That is Just two touchs, simplifyed on a realistic way with Very convicing motion.

But FUT players wont like It anyway. They Want all happening at an instant speed.Even the time It takes the ball to drop is too much time enough.
 
janguv said:
My two penneth on it:

I wasn't that impressed myself. The most important part got the least attention, "Tactical AI". It seemed to me like they wanted us to make an implicit association between their new team-based mocap system and the tactical on-pitch shapes, but actually, they didn't show any of that in action and they didn't explicitly state it.

That's because it looks like the main reason they're feeding this team mocap data in is that it produces slightly more organic-looking animations. They wanted to simulate a real match so that they can make "more realistic" the individual player's animations, not so that they can use and implement data regarding tactical shapes, etc.

Literally the only example they showed of "new" tactical shapes was a back 4 staying compact and moving horizontally as a unit. They explained this Tactical AI (gotta put these buzzwords in caps, after all!) was made possible by the "new tech" (i.e. better CPU-GPU on next-gen consoles), allowing them to process "decisions" at x rate quicker than before. But, clearly, getting tactical shapes right doesn't require insane computing power – we had it two generations ago. So it just sounded like they were fobbing everyone off with that stuff, and actually the only real improvements are to individual animations, which they've economised as a data capturing process by putting on a whole game of players in mocap suits.
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When they showed the overhead tactical view of the match (via the motion sensors), and didn't make any reference to the positional data they could have harnessed for tactical realism... But made time to talk about how players point at things now, thanks to the sensors... God, it's a kick in the balls. Not the footballs.
 
janguv said:
My two penneth on it:

I wasn't that impressed myself. The most important part got the least attention, "Tactical AI". It seemed to me like they wanted us to make an implicit association between their new team-based mocap system and the tactical on-pitch shapes, but actually, they didn't show any of that in action and they didn't explicitly state it.
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You're absolutely right!
 
Was it just me (I didn't pay attention to the whole thing) or did they fail to mention machine-learning/neural networks the entire presentation? I thought that would be where the hype was, even if it was ultimately marketing fluff. Instead it was all mocap and animations.
 
Imagine if they used all that tech to make a defender get in the way of a player making a run, while the ball is elsewhere.
Players pulling each other's shirts, battling and blocking the attacking team's way, while you're building up the play somewhere close by trying to find an opening.

THAT'S the kind of thing I was hoping to see from Hypermotion and 22 motion-captured players.
 
How can i have any hope when the producers are acting all surprised footballers move differently IRL as opposed to when you capture stuff in a studio. If thats genuine they should all be fired. I mean, do FIFA producers watch football and think: ”thats strange, why arent they walking like crabs?”. I bet they know better or else they should really spend less time in their game and watch more real football.
 
Chuny said:
Oh yeah, of course you can always go back and play older versions but there's always something lacking.
For example, I've always loved PES 2013 but last time I tried to play it, the animations looked so weird, from the gamepad directions to the lack of organic motion from the players. I can't play it anymore.
Same with PES 5 or 6. And Even FIFA 08, 13 or 16 (awful player models among other things I now dislike in otherwise great games).
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I’ll not have a bad word said about PES 2013!


(you’re right though. I’m just so disappointed by Konami and EA’s offerings these days that I’m refusing to give them my cash on principle alone).
 
janguv said:
Was it just me (I didn't pay attention to the whole thing) or did they fail to mention machine-learning/neural networks the entire presentation? I thought that would be where the hype was, even if it was ultimately marketing fluff. Instead it was all mocap and animations.
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They mentioned "machine learning" at the start, but explained nothing. The missus (who was watching over the top of a book in the corner, nerd) laughed out loud when it started off along the lines of:

Interviewer: So what's new?
EA: Hypermotion.
Interviewer: What's that?
EA: Hyper motion.
Interviewer: What actually is Hypermotion?
EA: Machine learning.
Interviewer: Wow!

No actual explanation.

I think they explained a little later on that it's used to make the animations less slidey and less fake. They kept talking about the visibility being better. So, nothing to do with gameplay. They'll hit the same shots, but instead of their knee rotating 180-degrees to do it, they'll just get into the right position faster and kick it properly. Same end result.

That's how I took it, anyway.
 
Things made sense to me when I saw a former PES guy thinking this was great on twitter ,looked really promising and missed all the issues ,no wonder that game went to shit.
In his defence,not a producer
 
janguv said:
Was it just me (I didn't pay attention to the whole thing) or did they fail to mention machine-learning/neural networks the entire presentation? I thought that would be where the hype was, even if it was ultimately marketing fluff. Instead it was all mocap and animations.
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They briefly mentioned the "proprietary machine learning algorithm" or something, but didn't go into any detail. To be fair 99% of the people watching would have already been lost at that point.
 
I'm soooo ready to shell out whatever amount of money on Gold Platinum Ultimate Edition of FIFA 22 so that i can get my 7 games loan Mbappe at the start of the game. Forget football, nothing beats the ultimate feeling of building an OP team at the start of the game (by spending additional money ofcourse;))), sprinting past bronze teams and scoring goals, take that you poor plebs !!

Career mode ? Wheres the joy in that ??!! Who wants to play against a dumb defensive AI when i could be beating dumb defensive AI controlled by another human!! PFFT ! FIFA 22 here i come !!
 
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I wasn't hyped about it to begin with.
I think it's got to do with the fact that I lost all my hopes in EA long ago. Unlike with PES/KONAMI.
It probably has to do with the fact that I used to expect greater things from such a huge, powerful company with so many resources.

But when was the last time we could see a decisive, decided and determined change of direction in FIFA?. They've been holding on to this mold and dragging the same concept and structure for almost 7 years now.
So I went back and watched the first minutes of today's presentation because something caught my year when I was watching it live.

Sam Rivera, lead gameplay producer of the game, is the one who has been working at EA for the longest time. 12 Years. Since 2009.
Coincidentally, the hugest change in FIFA happened one year before that. In 2008. FIFA 08 was the game that turned everything for EA.
And then, FIFA 14, with the new engine -at the time- IGNITE which gave FIFA the golden years, from FIFA 14 to 16.

The rest are fairly newer.

My point is those two in particular were part of FIFA when the game was solid and when it looked like they were nailing it year after year.
Can we blame it all just on the FROSTBITE Engine?.
 
you can troll ea or say anything about Fifa but I can say this is the most technically advanced football game right now. I'm sad cause I won't be able to experience it as I'm a pc gamer.
Its a big improvement in years. Animations & overall obviously look way better than FIFA 21.

I appreciate EA, they are at least trying something new unlike Konami!
 
I think what frustrates me (us all maybe?) is year on year we don’t actually see major advancements we see things being corrected that were removed in past iterations…..nothing seems to be moving forward in respect of an actual football experience, it’s been stuck for at least 5 years. Think about the power of the new consoles and to have the ability for adaptive AI, proper positional sequencing, it’s all there, just wrote the code for it and then improve it every year.

They simply choose not to, it’s that simple!? Tiny improvements do not sell games, removing aspects and then selling them as major improvements on the return will sell games…….it’s been like this for years and anyone with any modicum of experience or above the age of 25 will see it a mile off, but we sink back to the target audience to answer that.

I get some `Fifa stuff on my Instagram feed and I see a player flip flapping, juggling, flicking it up and volleying it in with 8 defenders not getting anywhere near him….the comments (and we are talking hundreds) are that it’s amazing, how do you do that skill? Therein is the new gen and new problem, these guys love the street ballers elements tied into a simulation, but we know it simply does not exist…EA know that too but they want to sell games…so!?

You can take any number of ex pros and have them in a presentation chair but that’s just got the sell, the less more cognitively challenged think of that as a game made by ex pros…..no it’s ex pros helping to sell the game for a much needed income…….it’s just tiring, but there is the hope that they improve stuff to release but then we also know patch one undoes all the positives after 1 month of feedback….I’m sorry and it hurts like mad but it’s truly hopeless for us vets from 1992 to present day.
 
Chris Davies said:
I will buy it and I hate myself for it (and I know at least one other person here does too - sorry if you're reading this ;))).

The best hope we have is that sales drop, so they start to listen to non-influencers... But sports game are a unique thing.

A sports game doesn't have to be good, to sell.

People who love football, watch football, and then want to play football. Right now, there's only one football game on the market. Let's be honest - PES doesn't count when you look at the sales numbers, and I'd wager over 50% who buy PES (or play the free version) also buy FIFA. So sales will never drop.
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The possible influencer updates are always later, so there is hope a vanilla disc might deliver somehow. :PRAY:

the buzzwords of the reveal video tick my boxes but i need to feel it with a controller in hands.
 
I think it's impossible for them to please both FUT players and players wanting a more sim experience. I think at this point they could even make two different games and sell them. Maybe make the FUT part F2P like some people have said before, but then they probably wouldn't sell enough of the sim game for it to be profitable.

I honestly don't know what FUT or "pro" players want. Maybe EA can give them the same game over and over and make money off the packs.
 
milin_im said:
I think it's impossible for them to please both FUT players and players wanting a more sim experience.
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Well as you kinda acknowledge yourself in your post, it's not that it's impossible.. it's that they really just don't want to.

Would be as simple as separate the gameplays, like the already do for the Volta thing for example. Leave the mannequins and the flashy stuff to FUT, or at best selectable at will, and give some coherent team movements and weight to the offline only.. you'd make all kind of users happy.

But I guess when their idea is to direct as many as possible people to FUT they'll just won't bother with the thought.
 
staffan said:
They actually think the game is designed for career mode players

HQgEVnB.png
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And one of them even came here and laughed at your comment...
Screenshot_20210720-205406_Chrome.jpg
..unless its just similar username..
;) :LOL:
 
Madmac79 said:
Well as you kinda acknowledge yourself in your post, it's not that it's impossible.. it's that they really just don't want to.

Would be as simple as separate the gameplays, like the already do for the Volta thing for example. Leave the mannequins and the flashy stuff to FUT, or at best selectable at will, and give some coherent team movements and weight to the offline only.. you'd make all kind of users happy.

But I guess when their idea is to direct as many as possible people to FUT they'll just won't bother with the thought.
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My point is that doing that requires a total different game, like Volta is to the main FIFA. By totally separating the "simcade" to the "sim" game, they could achieve better profits, 'cause that's what only matters to them.
 
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