FIFA 21 Discussion (Console Versions)

[Redhat]

B) People loving the defending...

The defending is bad because u actually have to do it MANUALLY as you SHOULD have to. The fact they make it’s so the AI defends for u is stupid. This is how it should and always should be.

Yeah defending is spot on for me

Defending is not bad, it's harder. Last year there was less AI interference than in previous years, which was great, but that was negated by how static the attacking AI was. People are already complaining about defending because it is tough to be successful and they are conceding goals left and right, not because defense is bad.

That's a good thing, attack is powerful for both players, but defense is also hard for both, which means that if you are a good enough player you will outscore your opponent because of how hard it is to defend.

I'd rather have hard defending thus easy attacking than easy defending and a bunch on 0-0s

This one really takes the cake:

Also this is my opinion, but high scoring games reduce variance (a single BS goal matters less) because you can more easily compensate for it. As compared to 20 where if you gave up a BS rebound in the 15th minute, the game becomes impossible

Advocating for goal fests because it reduces variance which is a good thing (?) because you believe FIFA 21 is League of Legends and not a football game. Beautiful.

Everything is good so far except defending. If you tackle someone you should get the ball every time.

 

[FootieGamer]

Interesting to see the negative opinions on here. Been playing the trial now (after getting the beta) and it is playing great as far as I am concerned.

Defending is meant to be hard. It isn’t like in pes where you press one button to heat seek the player on the ball. You have to focus 100% the whole game or you can lose goals easily. As a result, you could say it is a stressful game to play if you like to have a relaxed game of football.

There’s some really nice contextual touches etc which are great to see. Dribbling is superb too. Only issue I have seen is how goalies get beaten a lot with angled shots.

I have never and will never put a penny into buying packs etc. I relish playing teams that have icons etc. because it makes it funnier when you beat them and they have spent cash getting their team.

I don’t play CPU - maybe that’s where the difference is. Absolutely loving the new version, can’t wait until the 9th.

 

[Chris Davies]

Excellent sleuthing.

Yeah, as you say. FIFA is now developed to be a League of Legends game. And the worst part is - that's what the fans want. They aren't complaining. They're loving it.

So FIFA really is dead to me, as an option. But it will continue to sell bucketloads. PES, if I'm being cynical, will die from a lack of licenses and because it's not what modern gamers want. (Unless it turns into a FIFA clone.)

I think this is the death knell. No football sims for the rest of our lives.

I feel like retiring as a gamer. For the first time in my life, I think.

 

[rojofa]

All these complaints are so predictable. I could have written a pretty good estimate of what people here would be saying upon release months ago, along with even the names of many people to go along with each view.

After everything we've seen for years, and in the months leading up to this, there's been absolutely nothing to suggest this would be moving in the direction towards the kind of football game we want. I never had much desire to try any trial/demo, even less intention to purchase the game and nothing I've seen or read has changed my mind nor did I expect it to.

The most productive thing we can do is probably to try to get as many FUT players as possible in the UK to contribute evidence/feedback to get lootboxes regulated/banned. Share these links with friends you know have pumped loads of money into FUT packs over the years.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/loot-boxes-in-video-games-call-for-evidence

https://dcms.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_ebuajScHCCzLoj3

Whether you think this will work or not, this is probably the only chance we'll get for years to see some action on this in the UK, a pretty big market for EA, so it's worth a try .

Many of the problems in football games, even gameplay-wise, stem from FUT/MyClub P2W so if the current model they use becomes unviable due to government regulation, they may be forced to go in another direction.

Showing EA videos of these braindead defenders won't change anything as "it's not a bug, it's a feature". This is the type of game they are actively trying to produce.

 

[manmachine]

The defending is bad because u actually have to do it MANUALLY as you SHOULD have to. The fact they make it’s so the AI defends for u is stupid. This is how it should and always should be.

This type of clown also thinks that second man press is "AI defending".
Yet it's clearly not. It's 100% manual. You manually instruct a player to press with your input and it requires some skill as you can get punished for it, same as miss timing a tackle. As opposed to the dpad tactics, where you can flick an option and the whole team man-marks everyone on the pitch. Which is 100% automatic AI defending but no one cares.

(And BTW if second man press was a thing this game would be far faaaar better).

The fut community sounds like a bunch of confused kids who don't know what the hell they're advocating for. If you're against things like second man press, you're against manual defending FFS! The fact that EA took 2nd man press out of the game as a response to the "AI defending is OP" feedback is actually quite hilarious. They're just doing their own thing while no one has a clue what they're talking about.

Also this is my opinion, but high scoring games reduce variance (a single BS goal matters less) because you can more easily compensate for it. As compared to 20 where if you gave up a BS rebound in the 15th minute, the game becomes impossible

Yeah... Losing 8-7 with a bs goal is so much better than losing 2-1 with a bs goal. Or something.

 

[Redhat]

Interesting to see the negative opinions on here. Been playing the trial now (after getting the beta) and it is playing great as far as I am concerned.

Defending is meant to be hard.

It's a philosophical argument at this point in terms of how much agency should be required from the player.

What constitutes as difficult? As in, what aspects of defending should be difficult? The reading and timing of your tackle? Cutting out passing lanes? If so, then I agree 100%, but that doesn't encompass defending in its entirety. There are a whole slew of things that should be taking place under the hood including, but not limited to: Defensive shape of the entire team, cutting off passing lanes, tracking runners in the box, tracking runners from the midfield, staying tight to certain players, pressure, or having any sort of defensive awareness that a human being, let alone a footballer should have. All of these aspects should be governed not only by the user, but by team tactics, individual instructions and player stats.

A lot of this has to be automated because football is a sport that is 11v11. It's unreasonable and unrealistic to put the impetus solely on the player because it makes very little sense logistically. If I switch to a defender, my team shouldn't just grind to a screeching halt and instantly become far less effective as a unit just because I'm not in direct control of every single player simultaneously. Do people take umbrage with the fact that when you're on the ball, your teammates make offensive runs? Why aren't people complaining that offensive AI runs are too automated and thus, should be nerfed? Oh wait, that's because it pertains to attacking and people find it enjoyable, so we can't touch that!

Interesting to see the negative opinions on here. Been playing the trial now (after getting the beta) and it is playing great as far as I am concerned.

I don’t play CPU - maybe that’s where the difference is

That's exactly where the difference lies, but I don't mean that as a slight. I've grinded in FUT, been in top Pro Clubs in years gone, won many co-op seasons on manual. I don't want people to think I'm anti-online because I'm not.@Anth James posted some good examples a page or two back in regards to defensive issues.

Slightly off topic and I don't mean to repost, but come on:

Spoiler

This is on Legendary. This is the kind of shithousery we're dealing with in general.

@rojofa

Definitely. It's just me being stubborn and crotchety. With that said, the defending/teammate AI awareness appears to be even worse than 20 and honestly, I didn't expect it to stoop that low. I'm pretty pessmimistic and I still didn't anticipate that it would regress this much. Jokes on me, I suppose.

 

[normazimuth]

Excellent sleuthing.

Yeah, as you say. FIFA is now developed to be a League of Legends game. And the worst part is - that's what the fans want. They aren't complaining. They're loving it.

So FIFA really is dead to me, as an option. But it will continue to sell bucketloads. PES, if I'm being cynical, will die from a lack of licenses and because it's not what modern gamers want. (Unless it turns into a FIFA clone.)

I think this is the death knell. No football sims for the rest of our lives.

I feel like retiring as a gamer. For the first time in my life, I think.

FIFA's been pretty much dead to me for a couple of years now. When I watched your stream the other night, there wasn't even 1% of me that thought "I might get this". If anything, it looked like it was worse than ever. It's got the point where it's as bad (in different ways) as the bad old pre-2007 FIFA, when it was largely dismissed by PES players.

Which leaves PES as the only hope, but I find the AI in PS2021 to be utterly unbearable, worse than 2020 imo, with blatant rubber-banding that is stronger than ever. And no mention by Konami, so far, that 2022 will specifically feature revamped AI, redesigned from scratch.

Maybe the only hope is that AI becomes sophisticated enough that it builds its own football game - it's already able to make some sort of effort at a tennis game. Given the direction EA and Konami are going, this long-shot is actually starting to seem like the best hope.

 

[nikolapfc89]

Reading reviews on many websites, blogs and forums. As always many complains about cpu and team players ai. I agree with that, but my point of view is different. So here are my game thoughts so far.

First to say i dont play cm or fut. I play only kick off matches something like predictions. Take best matches of the day and play them. Main reason is many different leagues, trying many players and teams and i love it. I play like that since FIFA 13.

WHAT i really like is FUN. For me, its mistake that they are trying to create simulation. Why? Because when i want that i take ball and go outside and play simulation with my friends. I just want game to be fun. To have moments to remember. I dont care about ai or fouls.
My setup is on PRO, i dont play just to win, but to enjoy that specific match. I dont even attack cpu so much, i let them play a bit.
This game is so similar to last one but its updated. Many new stuff that i like, shoot ball into net after scoring goal. I see that there is a lot of random gameplay stuff, animations and random goals like reflecting shot from DF into goal, or by GK ant its superb. I had like 5 random goals in 10 games and i love it.

I dont know, found this game fun and love to enjoy every match. Also with new grass and goalnet settings game is now less repetitive or monotonous cause many generic stadiums have unique look with different teams.

 

[papinho81]

Do people take umbrage with the fact that when you're on the ball, your teammates make offensive runs? Why aren't people complaining that offensive AI runs are too automated and thus, should be nerfed?

Very lucid counter argument against this 1vs1 nonsense.

 

[rockstrongo]

Why aren't people complaining that offensive AI runs are too automated and thus, should be nerfed? Oh wait, that's because it pertains to attacking and people find it enjoyable, so we can't touch that

My exact words last year when FIFA 20 was released!
Needs to be said again.
Fully agree

 

[PRO_TOO]

FIFA pro says he won't buy FIFA Points for FIFA 21

A FIFA pro has announced he won't buy any FIFA Points during the FIFA 21 season.

Tim "Tim Latka" Schwartmann, who currently plays for German club FC Schalke 04's esports team, said he had decided to compete on the professional FIFA circuit this season without spending a penny on FIFA Ultimate Team (FUT).

Tim Schwartmann says he won't spend a penny on FIFA Points this season.
FUT is FIFA's most popular game mode and publisher EA's money spinner, pulling in billions in revenue through the sale of FIFA Points. FIFA Points are used to buy FUT packs, which contain a random assortment of virtual players. It's this mechanic that makes FUT a pay-to-win competitive online experience - and has sparked a comparison to gambling.

FIFA pros use FUT to qualify for professional tournaments, and so must head online to play matches with their Ultimate Team. Because of this, some pros spend thousands of pounds on FUT as soon as it launches in a bid to obtain the best players as quickly as possible.

....

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-pro-says-he-wont-buy-fifa-points-for-fifa-21

 

[Chris Davies]

Do people take umbrage with the fact that when you're on the ball, your teammates make offensive runs? Why aren't people complaining that offensive AI runs are too automated and thus, should be nerfed? Oh wait, that's because it pertains to attacking and people find it enjoyable, so we can't touch that!

My exact words last year when FIFA 20 was released!
Needs to be said again.
Fully agree

I don't know why I bothered, but I tweeted this point:


And the response:


It's a waste of time.

 

[fernadez]

I don't know why I bothered, but I tweeted this point:


And the response:


It's a waste of time.

Fucking taking the piss, that's what that is.

 

[rockstrongo]

@Chris Davies we're obviously playing the game the wrong way.

Yeah the gap between us,and maybe a casual football fan and the futters/influencers/content creators is never going to be mended.
They don't understand us,we not getting why the hell you'd want a game like this.

We have a game with stadiums/atmosphere/licences that are unmatched Vs any other game/year.
Still people (the one's I mentioned) settles for this?

I wrote here a few weeks back on how my hockey mates sees this "I hate football but love FUT...I'm so hyped for FIFA 21"
Sums it up!

 

[manmachine]

Last year all those people were using "Drop back" to defend. They weren't using "more jockey movement" and weren't "more aggressive". That's actually terrible defending advice. More aggressive = leaving more empty space. And you can't be more aggressive without 2nd man press anyway. haha.

No, no no, they were just switching to drop back. Just getting 10 AI players behind the ball hoping they won't concede. Others were screaming "get rid of drop back / we can't score / it's boring". When they wanted to press they couldn't do it manually (no 2nd man press) they just switched to constant pressure and the AI did everything for them! Sorry, but it's just so funny.🤣

Let's settle one thing. This is not about manual/difficult defending. It's just a bunch of guys who get frustrated if they can't hit a button and score with the expensive card they just bought. It's about kids wanting candy. Some of these kids had a youtube channel and were somewhat popular and they were blaming their losses on AI defending (As if the same AI didn't defend for them as well), and it kinda stuck. Their desire for candy/ronaldo goals and their ignorance of the game will be forever rationalized with the "no ai defending" mantra.

 

[rockstrongo]

Hope I don't offend anyone but..
these content creators/streamers my view on them is that the support "football"
Which means they probably support both Man city and Chelsea,(or whomever wins the league) plus which ever team Mbappe and Neymar plays for!

Attention span isn't higher than a 30 highlight of a game, preferably a tasty CL game,no clue what EL is.

 

[normazimuth]

Is "become a pro" mode still in the game? If so, given you are only controlling the one player all match, if that player is a midfielder or attacker, what do the defenders on your team do? They surely don't stand and watch and wait for you to do all the defending too?

 

[Thespeedster84]

@Chris Davies we're obviously playing the game the wrong way.

Yeah the gap between us,and maybe a casual football fan and the futters/influencers/content creators is never going to be mended.
They don't understand us,we not getting why the hell you'd want a game like this.

We have a game with stadiums/atmosphere/licences that are unmatched Vs any other game/year.
Still people (the one's I mentioned) settles for this?

I wrote here a few weeks back on how my hockey mates sees this "I hate football but love FUT...I'm so hyped for FIFA 21"
Sums it up!

Todays crowd is too much about who's finger is faster on the gamepad, keyboard, mouse. Not good when they want it to all type of game. They may look football game as "combat/battle" games. I look at some people playing games on their mobile phone.. i look at their thumbs movement, so quick, i mean wtf happens.

 

[Madmac79]

A this point, I feel it's useless to discuss with people like the twitter ones you quoted about defending. We talk two different languages. As perfectly put by Manmachine above, they are behind the thrill of scoring just for the sake of it.. a bit like I could care less the way I used to score a kill in my LOL days.. the adrenaline feel was exactly the same, be it the dirtiest and undeserved of the last hits or an elaborate outplay. I guess for them it must be a similar situation, the similarity with real football being only a minimal, secondarily mean to deliver the experience.

We can only hope in a paradigm shift due to some lootbox ban, some third (unlikely) competitor or I think it will only get worse.

Man, if only some quality indie studios gave us something to kickstart..

 

[rockstrongo]

I think the eSport has to change for football games to be great again.
Like you see on popular racing league's,all done without aid's,all very realistic!

I think this will come to an end,or different direction eventually (or hopefully)
More and more play online,not just the ,"bad" online,but proper SIM stuff.

 

[Emroth]

We can only hope in a paradigm shift due to some lootbox ban, some third (unlikely) competitor or I think it will only get worse.

100%.
Im actually sad to see people thinking that next gen will be some miracle.
Technology might not be there to create a perfect football experience, but its certainly there to cover basics. Since ps2 days.
The way Fifa is nowadays is a choice.
Next gen will not change anything.

Unless - EA create a small development team to design an ON/OFF switches and sliders for everything in Career Mode.
Even then - I dont think it would be from the goodness of their heart. It would be to shut people like us up, so we stop clutter their timeline and they could just focus on advertising packs and replying to FUT kids

 

[Filippo-Inzaghi]

Next Gen will onlye develop the games in a even more e-sporting direction. Can't understand why people would believe in anything else.

I really think that it's time for us to accept the premise and enjoy the games as much as possible or lay it down. The PS5 shift/NextGen is a good time to reflect on that subject.

Personally i will wait and see, meaning that i'm at a PS5 when FIFA 22 and PES 2022 is out and not a second earlier. That gives some time for reactions.

 

[Peter Withe]

I’ve watched more gameplay videos of this. People playing with sliders and without. It looks awful. FIFA is over for me.

It’s 99% catered for FUT players now. Career Mode players are an afterthought. There’s no point adding content to Career Mode because the gameplay still absolutely stinks from the look of things and going from the negative reactions here from players that I trust.

Also, it’s been said a 1000 times - but FIFA won’t improve whilst it’s using the Frostbite pile of crap. It’s been terrible using this engine year after year. I miss FIFA on the Ignite Engine.

PES 2021 is boring AF. FIFA 21 looks worse than 20. PES 2017 for another year then?

 

[rockstrongo]

I’ve watched more gameplay videos of this. People playing with sliders and without. It looks awful. FIFA is over for me.

It’s 99% catered for FUT players now. Career Mode players are an afterthought. There’s no point adding content to Career Mode because the gameplay still absolutely stinks from the look of things and going from the negative reactions here from players that I trust.

Also, it’s been said a 1000 times - but FIFA won’t improve whilst it’s using the Frostbite pile of crap. It’s been terrible using this engine year after year. I miss FIFA on the Ignite Engine.

PES 2021 is boring AF. FIFA 21 looks worse than 20. PES 2017 for another year then?

13 mate!

 

[Peter Withe]

13 mate!

God I still love that game.

 

[rockstrongo]

God I still love that game.

Started a new ML last night...

 

[majuh]

(And BTW if second man press was a thing this game would be far faaaar better).

Why don't you simply use legacy defending then?

Is "become a pro" mode still in the game? If so, given you are only controlling the one player all match, if that player is a midfielder or attacker, what do the defenders on your team do? They surely don't stand and watch and wait for you to do all the defending too?

When playing with a fixed cursor, there always is an active AI-controlled player in your team, just like when playing against the AI.

 

[Chris Davies]

Why don't you simply use legacy defending then?

Funny you say that.

I've just gone back to the game to try legacy defending, and the games have gone from being 4-4 (literally, my previous three games) to me winning 4-2 because the AI's defenders still can't defend.

Scoring 4 goals a game, as Newcastle, is absolutely stupid. Watch this whole run of play. (This is on "slow" speed, but with the AI given a +2 speed advantage via sliders.)

I'm playing on Legendary and it's like I'm playing on Amateur. Because defending is so broken.

Crucially, I'm not having to THINK about anything I'm doing. I can put FIFA 16 on, or PES 2013, and have to think about every pass.

In 21, no player is marked, so I can pass to whoever I want, and through-balls are always on.

 

[TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal!]

This is all sounding really bad. As soon as I hear the words "Defending is harder" and "Get gud" it makes me want to punch something.. EA you fucking morons! Defending didn't need to be nerfed or made harder.... if anything it wasn't effective enough against sprint and trick stick heroes on FIFA 20... and 19. and 18......

Starting to think this will be the 1st year that I don't play either PES or FIFA as PES's usual flaws have risen to the surface again (as they do within a couple of weeks of play) and FIFA... just sounds like a joke... May as well call it FIFA JAM Tournament Edition (FUT 2021) or something like that.

Idiots EA... idiots!

 

[bsmaff]

Funny you say that.

I've just gone back to the game to try legacy defending, and the games have gone from being 4-4 (literally, my previous three games) to me winning 4-2 because the AI's defenders still can't defend.

Scoring 4 goals a game, as Newcastle, is absolutely stupid. Watch this whole run of play. (This is on "slow" speed, but with the AI given a +2 speed advantage via sliders.)

I'm playing on Legendary and it's like I'm playing on Amateur. Because defending is so broken.

Crucially, I'm not having to THINK about anything I'm doing. I can put FIFA 16 on, or PES 2013, and have to think about every pass.

In 21, no player is marked, so I can pass to whoever I want, and through-balls are always on.

I have a couple of videos to upload, but after changing formation and just playing quite attacking.
Scored 3 goals against Bayern Munich in 17 in game minutes on legendary - Scoring goals in FIFA 21 is a completely brainless exercise even on legendary.