FIFA 20 Discussion (Console Versions)

[Peter Withe]

I'm reading lots of negativity regarding FIFA 20 post-patch tonight on Twitter, Reddit AND the FIFA forums.

It's good because a LOT of FIFA players are complaining now. It's everywhere - everyone hates the pace and the ping pong nature of the game now. Apart from FUT Pro YouTube Zombies of course because they want to score 150 mph overhead kicks every time.

 

[Chris Davies]

I'm reading lots of negativity regarding FIFA 20 post-patch tonight on Twitter, Reddit AND the FIFA forums.

It's good because a LOT of FIFA players are complaining now. It's everywhere - everyone hates the pace and the ping pong nature of the game now.

The dominant feedback is negative, from non-Game-Changers and non "pro" eSports guys.

The problem is, thus far (even on the beta forums, from what I'm told), EA representatives are completely ignoring it.

They will just not respond to it - presumably because they're aware that EA are making a game for the 10% (eSports guys etc.), not the 90% - because in terms of their earnings... They make 90% off the 10%, and vice versa...

This is why I keep tagging the community managers on Twitter - that's @EACoreySA and @EA_GZaro - to try and at least get it so FIRMLY in front of their eyes that they have to present SOMEONE with our complaints - whether that's the devs, or (more likely) a producer who decides what feedback should be acted upon - and at least acknowledge the complaints.

All I want to see is a "we hear you". They've tweeted back to me in the past and said this. But now... They're saying nothing. Which makes me think they know we're all going to be totally ignored and they need this to happen as quietly as possible...

 

[staffan]

Check out what HE HIMSELF says (the guy streaming this) at 4:42.

Spoiler

"I think the first couple of weeks of FIFA 20, like, people are gonna be scoring all sorts of goals cos there's just gonna be no defenders in shot."

They're complaining that it's too hard to defend, basically. "I can't do this defending" he says, later on.

The saving grace for me - there's not bags of goals here, and a fair few passes go completely off target.

13:46

"oh mate, what was that, it was like a through ball but I pressed pass"

So funny when these FUT plebs experience pass error

 

[Peter Withe]

The dominant feedback is negative, from non-Game-Changers and non "pro" eSports guys.

The problem is, thus far (even on the beta forums, from what I'm told), EA representatives are completely ignoring it.

They will just not respond to it - presumably because they're aware that EA are making a game for the 10% (eSports guys etc.), not the 90% - because in terms of their earnings... They make 90% off the 10%, and vice versa...

This is why I keep tagging the community managers on Twitter - that's @EACoreySA and @EA_GZaro - to try and at least get it so FIRMLY in front of their eyes that they have to present SOMEONE with our complaints - whether that's the devs, or (more likely) a producer who decides what feedback should be acted upon - and at least acknowledge the complaints.

All I want to see is a "we hear you". They've tweeted back to me in the past and said this. But now... They're saying nothing. Which makes me think they know we're all going to be totally ignored and they need this to happen as quietly as possible...

You can tell EA Corey wants a Fifa like we do, he’s got that same vision.

Unfortunately for us, EA’s pandering to the FUT zombies always impacts us.

 

[patzor]

Spot on.

 

[rockstrongo]

What if Pes 20 (sorry need to bring that game in) turns out to be a slow and more of a build up game Vs FIFA's faster more direct game play,and the crowd that are us (are us I guess) plays that more,hails that more (if full release is good/great) I'd see that scenario as the only way for EA to start putting out either a game with two options (casual/SIM) rather than it coming from us as Fifa players?
I'd see that happening before EA creating a great offline game out of the blue

 

[piccolo_bsc]

I have canceled my Ultimate Edition pre-Order for now. If the EA Access-version surprises my positively i may buy the normal version. Don't really fancy playing FIFA atm. though, so it would have to be really good.

 

[papinho81]

We definitely need two different version of the game. There will never be a satisfying compromise in between what could be a good football game for me and what the guy from the video above wants.

 

[Chris Davies]

Spot on.

Other than calling the Game Changers the "Game Destroyers" (I like it), I disagree with everything he says. Particularly "the first version of the beta was so slow it was literally unplayable". Whenever someone says "unplayable", my alarm bells ring.

Was it "unplayable", or, did you give it ten minutes and decide you hated it because it was different from the arcade game you're used to? Like that MattHD guy pretty much stated himself? Oh yeah, that one. Sigh.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

This is against the cpu on Ultimate difficulty. Starts at about 1hr 09m in.

The passing is absurd. Immediately. Didn't watch it in its entirety (shoot me) but that looks like 19 with a new colour palette and press conferences to skip.

 

[Granger]

well few years ago there was fifa world,and 90% fut players were playing that game free and you dont have to buy same players over and over again,also this looks very fast
I want to ask i see people say next year new gen,that means no more frostbite engine?

 

[Chris Davies]

well few years ago there was fifa world,and 90% fut players were playing that game free and you dont have to buy same players over and over again,also this looks very fast
I want to ask i see people say next year new gen,that means no more frostbite engine?

It's Frostbite forever, sadly. It's their engine for every game and that isn't going to change. The devs themselves hate it... but it means devs can be made to switch between projects (i.e. different games) by the bosses as crunch requires. So, we're screwed.

 

[Redhat]

Other than calling the Game Changers the "Game Destroyers" (I like it), I disagree with everything he says. Particularly "the first version of the beta was so slow it was literally unplayable". Whenever someone says "unplayable", my alarm bells ring.

Was it "unplayable", or, did you give it ten minutes and decide you hated it because it was different from the arcade game you're used to? Like that MattHD guy pretty much stated himself? Oh yeah, that one. Sigh.

I commented on his opinions around this time last year. Same old stuff from him, it would seem.

There's a bit several minutes into the video which tells you everything you need to know about his philosophical outlook on FIFA.

You know what my thoughts on it are? I stand by it until the day I die; the quicker it is, the higher the skill gap because the more reactive you have to be... and just in general, the game is more action packed.

That sort of statement is something you'd find when discussing design philosophies for a purely competitive game ala League of Legends, Overwatch, and CS:GO. Twitch reflexes, speed, high-octane action not that there isn't a disgusting amount of micro and macro play involved in those titles). To be honest, that's a completely reasonable opinion to hold and I enjoy the aforementioned titles, but FIFA 20 is not FUT 20. Not officially, anyway.

This is why it's imperative that there should be a clear distinction between the two because FUT has warped into something so enormous from a financial and cultural standpoint, it needs to be a self-contained product. As most of us have said a million times, that will probably never happen as there's little financial incentive. We are two sides of the same coin as in we're both talking about FIFA and football, but someone like Kurt's landscape is drastically different from say, Evo-Web's. That's not to say that one side is superior to the other, but we (and I imagine the developers as well) are constantly butting heads because we're complete polar opposites in terms of what we expect out of a football game.

Back to the Kurt video, he argues that a slower paced tempo wouldn't be enjoyable because the halves are only 6-minutes long. They're only 6-minutes long in FUT and online modes, not in offline. That's a completely irrelevant statement that has no barring on how someone like me would enjoy the game because I am not beholden to half-length restrictions.

The subject of "game pace" is such a multifaceted topic as well. It's not just a question of players or the ball being physically slow, but the defensive setup, off the ball movement, passing and touch accuracy, how much stats affect player's ability, etc. I wish some of these "Game Changers" discussed and approached the game from this angle. Ideally, a football game should strive to replicate and represent all facets of the sport in terms of play styles. Tiki-taka, long ball, counter attacking, etc. It shouldn't just be a case of the game being too slow or too fast.

A lot of these players want FIFA to be developed and balanced with a highly competitive design philosophy in mind that forgoes the core tenants and fundamentals of the game it's supposed to represent. That's fine, but I prefer my football games to resemble football.



I mean, really?

 

[mfmaxpower]

I commented on his opinions around this time last year. Same old stuff from him, it would seem.

There's a bit several minutes into the video which tells you everything you need to know about his philosophical outlook on FIFA.


That sort of statement is something you'd find when discussing design philosophies for a purely competitive game ala League of Legends, Overwatch, and CS:GO. Twitch reflexes, speed, high-octane action. To be honest, that's a completely reasonable opinion to hold and I enjoy the aforementioned titles, but FIFA 20 is not FUT 20 (not officially, anyway).

This is why it's imperative that there should be a clear distinction between the two because FUT has warped into something so enormous from a financial and cultural standpoint, it needs to be a self-contained product. As most of us have said a million times, that will probably never happen as there's little financial incentive. We are two sides of the same coin as in we're both talking about FIFA and football, but someone like Kurt's landscape is drastically different from say, Evo-Web's. That's not to say that one side is superior to the other, but we (and I imagine the developers as well) are constantly butting heads because we're complete polar opposites in terms of what we expect out of a football game.

Back to the Kurt video, he argues that a slower paced tempo wouldn't be enjoyable because the halves are only 6-minutes long. They're only 6-minutes long in FUT and online modes, not in offline. That's a completely irrelevant statement that has no barring on how someone like me would enjoy the game because I am not beholden to half-length restrictions.

The subject of "game pace" is such a multifaceted topic as well. It's not just a question of players or the ball being physically slow, but the defensive setup, off the ball movement, passing and touch accuracy, how much stats affect player's ability, etc. I wish some of these "Game Changers" discussed and approached the game from this angle. Ideally, a football game should strive to replicate and represent all facets of the sport in terms of play styles. Tiki-taka, long ball, counter attacking, etc. It shouldn't just be a case of the game being too slow or too fast.

A lot of these players want FIFA to be developed and balanced with a highly competitive design philosophy in mind that forgoes the core tenants and fundamentals of the game it's supposed to represent. That's fine, but I prefer my football games to resemble football.

View attachment 18798

I mean, really?

@Redhat has it spot on

 

[mfmaxpower]

I'm reading lots of negativity regarding FIFA 20 post-patch tonight on Twitter, Reddit AND the FIFA forums.

It's good because a LOT of FIFA players are complaining now. It's everywhere - everyone hates the pace and the ping pong nature of the game now. Apart from FUT Pro YouTube Zombies of course because they want to score 150 mph overhead kicks every time.

The dominant feedback is negative, from non-Game-Changers and non "pro" eSports guys.

Nah, very much disagree. Many of the Pros are saying post-patch beta has the potential to be the best FIFA to date, and TONS of people are agreeing and following along (I'm not saying this is a good thing).

The biggest changes from 19 to 20 (aside from the positional changes, which apparently has been in the works for a couple years) has come as a result of the direct feedback channels that now exist between the devs and the Pros. The game is catering to the competitive crowd, for better and worse, and most who aren't morons and know what they're talking about agree with the direction the game is going and generally are high on the post-patch beta (except for dribbling).

But as @Redhat suggested, unfortunately that design philosophy doesn't jive well with those of us who want greater focus on football fundamentals.

 

[mfmaxpower]

If you want a bit more of a comprehensive take, here's Kurt's video but with Inception giving his comments throughout. IMO it captures the competitive scene's take on the game pretty spot on.

I def disagree on some of their design philosophy stuff, but totally agree that beta pre patch was too slow and unresponsive in some ways. I wasn't alarmed because it just felt like dribbling often does in the betas; also thought the skill move changes were b/c of the beta, but they seem to think it's an actual design change to make them harder and less consistent, which would be awesome if true.

Also, when you listen to these guys I can't help but wonder how PES is going to catch fire with the competitive/eSport crowd. What these guys want is like the total opposite from what PES is lol.

 

[Redhat]

If they care so much about the competitive skill gap, then why don't they ever have a tirade against assisted controls? Surely they should advocate for manual controls to be the standard because like they said, competitive games should be about twitch-reflexes and input accuracy.

Whoops.

 

[manmachine]

These guys know the game inside out for years, so you can trust them for factual information (eg: X is OP), but you really have to filter their subjective opinion on other stuff and for the game as a whole, we are playing a different game after all.
This kurt guy says he doesn't care about passing and he thinks it was fine, so I don't give a single F for his opinion (although I can understand his argument that they're only playing 6 minutes halves, but why should we suffer for it).

There's only one fut guy I'm looking forward to hearing from, for the simple reason that his concerns align with mine, he focuses a lot on the defensive side of the game, which makes sense because he's Italian I guess, and he's also played real football. You could say he's the @Matt10 of fut! EA should hire more defensively minded Italians

I do recommend his videos on fifa 19 (I'm linking 2 below). He's also arguing for less passing assistance you'll be happy to learn @Redhat!

Why FIFA 19 Defensive AI Makes No Sense

How To Fix Passing For FIFA 20

Seriously do watch these when you have time, it's excellent analysis about how the past few fifa iterations work.

 

[Chris Davies]

Why FIFA 19 Defensive AI Makes No Sense

How To Fix Passing For FIFA 20

Guys like these are the guys we need to be Game Changers. (Which will never happen.)

 

[staffan]

These guys know the game inside out for years, so you can trust them for factual information (eg: X is OP), but you really have to filter their subjective opinion on other stuff and for the game as a whole, we are playing a different game after all.
This kurt guy says he doesn't care about passing and he thinks it was fine, so I don't give a single F for his opinion (although I can understand his argument that they're only playing 6 minutes halves, but why should we suffer for it).

There's only one fut guy I'm looking forward to hearing from, for the simple reason that his concerns align with mine, he focuses a lot on the defensive side of the game, which makes sense because he's Italian I guess, and he's also played real football. You could say he's the @Matt10 of fut! EA should hire more defensively minded Italians

I do recommend his videos on fifa 19 (I'm linking 2 below). He's also arguing for less passing assistance you'll be happy to learn @Redhat!

Why FIFA 19 Defensive AI Makes No Sense

How To Fix Passing For FIFA 20

I watched his video and all the same problems are in FIFA 20. Defenders still don't know how to let someone run offside:


I guess this is good for "skill gap" or some bs

 

[Aribo n Ojo]

when I see those animations I think they look good for their time but it is surely an exagerration to say newer FIFAs are somehow as inferior or "janky" (whatever that means) as you suggest, this does not seem rational to me. it's like when I go to PES videos and see FIFA players calling PES animations shit and "robotic", really? I mean maybe you could say that a few years ago but not any more. I think animation in both games use different systems and that is it, people are invested towards a particular style and can't see past it. FIFA is more that specific animations are over used and look poor like the stabbed pass animation, but it is not so bad it could not be "good enough" with some tweaks.

Inferior as in they dont really make sense and look odd alot of the time. Someone posted this video the other day saying how great the goal looks and how satisfying it is but what stood out for me was the janky animations of the player crossing the ball


Those animations just dont look natural to me in the slightest have you ever seen a player move like that? Now if you rewatch that WC10 video no animations jump out as looking really weird/janky/unnatural they all make sense. That to me is a step back. Rewatching that Fifa 20 video i find even just the basic running animation with the ball in Fifa looks strange.

 

[Peter Withe]

I think the only way I'm going to enjoy FIFA 20 (because many are telling me it's still easy with assisted) is to bite the bullet and use semi passing etc. It's going to take time learning it but I can't handle another year of no challenge.

I tried the other game this morning and it's so damn empty when I hit the back of the net. I feel...nothing. Then I went back to FIFA 19 this morning and scoring feels great, it's got that extra something that the other game has been missing for years now.

 

[Chris Davies]

I think the only way I'm going to enjoy FIFA 20 (because many are telling me it's still easy with assisted) is to bite the bullet and use semi passing etc.

I used to use semi passing in the older games, but since the Frostbite switch... There's something not quite right about it.

It feels totally random to me - it spikes really violently between "just missed" and "underhit pea-roller that the AI run off with and score", with the exact same input (and button-press time) for both.

It's one of those things that isn't a priority for them and so few people use it that it could be bugged for ten years before it ever gets any love.

(Perhaps it's not bugged, perhaps it's just me - but I also resent that the AI, on the most difficult settings, finish with a 90% pass accuracy every game, and if you play on semi or manual, you'll get 70%-80% every game.)

 

[Peter Withe]

I used to use semi passing in the older games, but since the Frostbite switch... There's something not quite right about it.

It feels totally random to me - it spikes really violently between "just missed" and "underhit pea-roller that the AI run off with and score", with the exact same input (and button-press time) for both.

It's one of those things that isn't a priority for them and so few people use it that it could be bugged for ten years before it ever gets any love.

(Perhaps it's not bugged, perhaps it's just me - but I also resent that the AI, on the most difficult settings, finish with a 90% pass accuracy every game, and if you play on semi or manual, you'll get 70%-80% every game.)

Do you find FIFA 19 too easy in Career?

 

[Chris Davies]

Do you find FIFA 19 too easy in Career?

If we're just talking difficulty and not about general gameplay (which I have so many issues with - I really dislike the AI in both games, and it looks to be the same in both games again this year)...

Then, no, I don't find it too easy. Over in the Career Mode thread, this post is typical of my experience. But I'm in the minority here, and I wouldn't claim otherwise.

Let me tell you, as briefly as I can, about my experience - because it speaks volumes as to why I play FIFA more than PES, despite the numerous and by-no-means-insignificant issues I have with it.

(Oh, by the way, I generally play on Ultimate.)

Yesterday, I reached the end of my third season with Newcastle. For three seasons, Mike Ashley has assigned a transfer budget, and then told me to finish the season with 90% of it intact as the #1 priority. He insists that the club makes £200m a year.

That translates as - spend that money if you want, Chris, but you better sell players to fill it back up again, and for every player you sell, only 50% of it goes back into the kitty. So if you want to buy a superstar (and for Newcastle that's an 80 OVR player), you're gonna have to sell three "standard" players to make up for it.

I defied him for three seasons in a row, ending each season with around 50% of the transfer budget remaining, and losing players season after season. Excluding the youth players, I'm now down to just 16 senior players. A few of them are 80 OVR, the rest are just below, and I've bought them based on key attributes (so I bought Guðmundsson for his pinpoint crosses, and Benteke to head them in).

The price I paid for defying the chairman? In the second and third seasons, I was told this... "If you won't keep to your spending limits, then you have to get us into the Europa League."

Season #1 I finished about 10th (with a "manager score" of about 70), season #2 I finished 8th (with a score of 66), and season #3, with the strongest squad of them all... 7th (with a score of 55).

My last three games were against Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United. If I'd won just one of them, we'd have made it into a Europa League spot, above Everton.

I lost 3-0 to Liverpool, because I was too gung-ho. I lost 1-0 to Chelsea from a Hazard wonder-dribble (that broke my heart). Against Man United, we kept it to 0-0 until the 44th minute. A deep cross to Lukaku bounced around in the box and was eventually drilled in low, and it finished 4-2 to United.

I've not been fired - but I'm going to resign, because the new objectives are the worst yet. I would argue that I'm being forced out of the club by unrealistic expectations. (Rafa - I know your pain.)

This whole thing (all of the above) is why I play FIFA, and why I'll continue to be a part of the problem and buy FIFA 20 (although I've promised myself I'll only buy it second-hand, so EA don't get my money).

None of the above excuses the gameplay issues I have - I hate the way the AI plays, with the horrible toe-poke pass animations where the ball whizzes off at 100mph, and the fact that they first-time-pass the most ridiculous balls (with no need to look up at the man they're passing to). They're psychic and I hate it.

But it's still challenging for me as Newcastle.

Now, if I was playing as Man City... I bet I'd have been bored months ago.

 

[manmachine]

I watched his video and all the same problems are in FIFA 20. Defenders still don't know how to let someone run offside:

I guess this is good for "skill gap" or some bs

I know, I'm seeing it in all videos, even on the beta pre-patch and I've posted screenshots about the AI defensive line (although maybe passing/pace looked better prepatch), which is why i'm 99% certain I'll be playing fifa 16 for another year. I'm just pointing out the issues to look for.

Nah, forget about the skill gap, there is zero skill in passing anyway. Passing and stupid defenders are simply designed that way for idiots who don't know the first thing about how to create space and chances. The game is speaking to them "here's your space dude, pass it. don't worry just hit a button the assistance will make it work".

 

[manmachine]

I think the only way I'm going to enjoy FIFA 20 (because many are telling me it's still easy with assisted) is to bite the bullet and use semi passing etc. It's going to take time learning it but I can't handle another year of no challenge.

I believe it's extremely hard, to have fair AI that makes human mistakes and is really hard to play against if you're VERY GOOD at the game (I'm not, so I don't have that problem). If you want the AI to try shots from bad angles, under pressure and miss, misplace passes etc, then you can always beat it because you know what works and what doesn't and you'll avoid the same mistakes. Usually the AI "cheats" in one way or another in the old games I believe, by scoring goals you have no way of preventing given the defensive mechanics at your disposal or through other subtle ways.

It's tough. I would play on semi, but it depends on WHY the game is easy with assisted. If it's because the defensive AI is stupid once again... errr... I don't think I would even want to touch the game. I'm too tired of this imbalanced crap.

 

[Peter Withe]

If we're just talking difficulty and not about general gameplay (which I have so many issues with - I really dislike the AI in both games, and it looks to be the same in both games again this year)...

Then, no, I don't find it too easy. Over in the Career Mode thread, this post is typical of my experience. But I'm in the minority here, and I wouldn't claim otherwise.

Let me tell you, as briefly as I can, about my experience - because it speaks volumes as to why I play FIFA more than PES, despite the numerous and by-no-means-insignificant issues I have with it.

(Oh, by the way, I generally play on Ultimate.)

Yesterday, I reached the end of my third season with Newcastle. For three seasons, Mike Ashley has assigned a transfer budget, and then told me to finish the season with 90% of it intact as the #1 priority. He insists that the club makes £200m a year.

That translates as - spend that money if you want, Chris, but you better sell players to fill it back up again, and for every player you sell, only 50% of it goes back into the kitty. So if you want to buy a superstar (and for Newcastle that's an 80 OVR player), you're gonna have to sell three "standard" players to make up for it.

I defied him for three seasons in a row, ending each season with around 50% of the transfer budget remaining, and losing players season after season. Excluding the youth players, I'm now down to just 16 senior players. A few of them are 80 OVR, the rest are just below, and I've bought them based on key attributes (so I bought Guðmundsson for his pinpoint crosses, and Benteke to head them in).

The price I paid for defying the chairman? In the second and third seasons, I was told this... "If you won't keep to your spending limits, then you have to get us into the Europa League."

Season #1 I finished about 10th (with a "manager score" of about 70), season #2 I finished 8th (with a score of 66), and season #3, with the strongest squad of them all... 7th (with a score of 55).

My last three games were against Liverpool, Chelsea and Man United. If I'd won just one of them, we'd have made it into a Europa League spot, above Everton.

I lost 3-0 to Liverpool, because I was too gung-ho. I lost 1-0 to Chelsea from a Hazard wonder-dribble (that broke my heart). Against Man United, we kept it to 0-0 until the 44th minute. A deep cross to Lukaku bounced around in the box and was eventually drilled in low, and it finished 4-2 to United.

I've not been fired - but I'm going to resign, because the new objectives are the worst yet. I would argue that I'm being forced out of the club by unrealistic expectations. (Rafa - I know your pain.)

This whole thing (all of the above) is why I play FIFA, and why I'll continue to be a part of the problem and buy FIFA 20 (although I've promised myself I'll only buy it second-hand, so EA don't get my money).

None of the above excuses the gameplay issues I have - I hate the way the AI plays, with the horrible toe-poke pass animations where the ball whizzes off at 100mph, and the fact that they first-time-pass the most ridiculous balls (with no need to look up at the man they're passing to). They're psychic and I hate it.

But it's still challenging for me as Newcastle.

Now, if I was playing as Man City... I bet I'd have been bored months ago.

I'm pretty much where you are.

I've just started a Hull City career on 19. FIFA Career, despite it's flaws in gameplay etc, keeps me coming back. The other game - I just can't take to it anymore, there's too much missing.

Anyway, wrong thread for this chat.

 

[rockstrongo]

@Chris Davies I'm on PA0 on Pes,and recently (or on and off) started Semi passing and manual through balls on FIFA 19 (and 18)
And it's just weird, especially manual through balls,no issues with manual crossing,but through balls are just very strange, especially how much power you should use,doesn't make sense Vs how much you apply on regular passing and crossing
Weird as hell

 

[Redhat]

I used to use semi passing in the older games, but since the Frostbite switch... There's something not quite right about it.

It feels totally random to me - it spikes really violently between "just missed" and "underhit pea-roller that the AI run off with and score", with the exact same input (and button-press time) for both.

Agreed. Well, somewhat.

I wager I put in around 1,500 hours of manual gameplay in both offline and 2v2 seasons from FIFA 14 to FIFA 17, so I'd consider myself quite proficient with said controls. For me, manual passing "broke" with FIFA 18 and onward. I've played with the same friend for years and we both struggled with manual passing once FIFA 18 hit. It felt completely off. If I go back to say, FIFA 16 or even FIFA 17, (which is powered by Frostbite, of course) manual passing click immediately. Like Rockstrongo said below, crossing and lobbed passes are fine. In fact, they're preferable. Nowadays, I play with everything on manual except passing (semi-assisted) and shooting (semi-assisted).

@Chris Davies I'm on PA0 on Pes,and recently (or on and off) started Semi passing and manual through balls on FIFA 19 (and 18)
And it's just weird, especially manual through balls,no issues with manual crossing,but through balls are just very strange, especially how much power you should use,doesn't make sense Vs how much you apply on regular passing and crossing
Weird as hell

Manual crossing is beautiful. The type of balls you can play with someone like Pogba is something else.