FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

I'm finishing off my CM review for EA but I was just going to add some detail on my gameplay impressions in the footnotes.
From FIFA 11, and given shooting has been tweaked in 12 (how good that will be we will have to wait and see) I'd like to get a feel for what peoples top three issues with the gameplay mechanics are or what they feel needs priority..

Please keep it to three only and try to be succinct and I'll pass them on with my report..

1.

2.

3.
 
This forum is plagued with fanboys from both sides. Here's my two cents:

Generally people are not happy about FIFA 12. If you go to official FIFA forums, read the top rated comments on FIFA 12 videos on YouTube, etc. you can clearly see the negativity regarding the whole FIFA franchise. Of course this doesn't mean FIFA won't wipe it's ass with PES in terms of sales as usual, but you can feel that FIFA is not the fan favourite it was at the start of NG era.

PES on the other hand has a good base engine, but there are problems with AI which need to be addressed. So far from trailers, animations have improved slightly, but not enough to make them competitive against FIFA in this department. We can hope that AI has improved, because it is the major obstacle in the process of PES becoming a true simulation game. Ping-pong passing is not only fixed, it is exhibited with pride in these trailers. It only leads to ridiculously unrealistic gameplay which plagued FIFA franchise for years. Although the issue of fixing ping-pong passing is not one solely for the developer to overcome, but one for the players as well, and I can write an essay about it, but not for now.

Also the retail price for FIFA 12 is £45 (pre-order, includes Ultimate Team from GAME UK). Still well overpriced especially knowing the negligible effort that was put in developing the game. If I was reluctant to buy it, now I'm sure I won't even bother with FIFA 12.
 
Nick Cave said:
Please keep it to three only and try to be succinct and I'll pass them on with my report..

1. The feeling of inertia & weight actually contributing to the player's movement.

2. Varied shooting & goalkeeper's toned down.

3. MAJOR Defensive AI improvements for both HUM & CPU
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Look - the standard RRP for games is £50.

http://www.play.com/Games/PlayStation3/6-/RegionHome.html

So FIFA is going to be another £5 on top of that. Not £15. So where the game would usually cost £40 (nowhere would sell the game for the full RRP), the actual price of the game will be £45 on release.

GAME have got exclusive rights to the Ultimate edition which includes free UT sticker packs, but not Ultimate Team itself. It is selling for the same we can expect the standard FIFA to retail for - £45, or £10 less than RRP. This is a temporary price for those who preorder now - usually it'd cost more than the standard edition.
 
Gab_ said:
It doesn't have to be that advanced, better AI movement (tactics), less floating, realistic acceleration, more error on touches, more people being able to challenge for headers, less scripted feeling on the keeper saves, more accuracy errors generally, preferred foot dribbling and we have taken big steps towards a more sim like game. I don't think it's that hard for these things to be implemented in FIFA.
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Agree, and what's more, I don't see how any of it would make the game less accessible or less appealing to any gamer type. Surely they would be improvements no matter what your personal taste is? A bit of exciting unpredictability, a bit of depth?

Personally what I crave is exactly that, some depth. That's the more important angle for me than worrying about realism, to a degree. Sure, it doesn't look great when Ashley Cole stops, turns 180 and goes again far quicker/slidey-er than a human should, but I could live with it if I knew that there was an obvious, consistent and tangible difference between his high Agility and a player of low Agility performing the same turn.

I'd like the shot/save scenarios to have a 'less scripted feeling' not because it would be more realistic, but because it would make each shot less predictable and therefore bring more tension and anticipation to any shooting opportunity.

I would like preferred foot dribbling/whatever, not because it's more realistic, but because it would make each player feel different and give them some character. I would like more players to challenge for headers, not necessarily because it's more realistic, but because it would be cool and satistfying to see one player rise amidst a crowd and win it.

There are good, sound, game design reasons for all of those things to be implemented, and we would all, from any end of the gamer type spectrum, enjoy a richer experience without making it any more complicated to pick up.

So it concerns me that we've gone two years with little/no improvement in these things, which makes me think that EA just don't see them, which makes me wonder what the likes of the GameChangers are telling them, or that perhaps they are but have no influence - and that would be a shame.

I find the whole "it is/isn't a sim, it should be more sim, they shouldn't say it's a sim when it's not, but who wants a true sim" debate slightly tedious. There's good game design and there's bad game design. You can make an arcade football game that's rubbish, and you can make a football simulation that's rubbish. A game that is designed with care and intelligence, that nails the right details, is richer and more satisfying for everybody.
 
well in this moment there are 3-4 videos about impact engine..and new dribbling...
but.. i want see video with new shots, new animations gameplay..i want see stadium bernabeu remake...and i hope that player faces are better, i talk about pedro,busquets, d.milito, muller...and other big players than his faces are a joke...
 
I want to see a video of the fixed and improved career mode but I'm grown up enough to accept that these things take time, first of all they pump out endless streams of PR friendly catchphrases and keywords to satisfy the shallow media and the easily impressed core of their fanbase, only later will we see the nuts and bolts of Fifa12.
 
Placebo said:
So this kind of anti-discussion is permissable in the Fifa thread? Yet I seem to remember that the last time it was like this in the PES thread the moderators stamped down repeatedly on it, I'm all for discussing the pros and cons of a game, however there are some in here who are 100% anti-Fifa and doing nothing but criticising the game, if you have no interest in the game at all (as is completely your right) don't those of us who are interested in Fifa deserve the same respect meted out to other game threads? Or should I start going into the PES thread and repeatedly slagging off its weak points (of which there are many if I was petty and trollish enough to care to list)?
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Well said. This thread is getting hammered much in the same way PES was in 09/10. It's not needed.
 
Can't we just open a Arcade vs Sim thread and have them all migrate to that thread?!

@ Nick,

1: Team tactics and game flow; meaning teams actually play as they should (longball, passing, etc) and not the current generic template where the only difference is in individual players' skill. Having a team actually try to keep possesion instead of just storm their way to your goal would be nice! A half-arsed solution would be to only fix the defensive lines, meaning that if you set your team up to actually be very defensive it would mean that when you counterattack your defenders don't f#$king push up to the halfwayline enabling the AI to counter-counterattack you...
2: Adding Enertia and player weight, and/or toning down AI reaction speeds for everything. The amount of "cheating" is just annoying, with defenders pivoting and "breaking" their legs to combat your own football intelligence when you wrongfoot them.
3: Injuries actually having a realistic presence. I do find that the stamina is noticable in 11, with players coming off the bench having an impact with their extra energylevels.
4: Better AI off-the-ball movement from both teams.

They are placed in order of importance.
 
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Nick Cave said:
I'm finishing off my CM review for EA but I was just going to add some detail on my gameplay impressions in the footnotes.
From FIFA 11, and given shooting has been tweaked in 12 (how good that will be we will have to wait and see) I'd like to get a feel for what peoples top three issues with the gameplay mechanics are or what they feel needs priority..

Please keep it to three only and try to be succinct and I'll pass them on with my report..

1.

2.

3.
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Can other people do this please. Any mature, reasonable feedback we can get to EA is an opportunity we shouldn't miss. :)
 
My complaints of Fifa are almost always Career mode and AI tactic/formation/lineup deficiencies before gameplay deficiencies, I'd gladly take Fifa08/09/10 gameplay if the career mode was as deep as Championship manager or even Fifa manager...
 
Placebo said:
So this kind of anti-discussion is permissable in the Fifa thread? Yet I seem to remember that the last time it was like this in the PES thread the moderators stamped down repeatedly on it, I'm all for discussing the pros and cons of a game, however there are some in here who are 100% anti-Fifa and doing nothing but criticising the game, if you have no interest in the game at all (as is completely your right) don't those of us who are interested in Fifa deserve the same respect meted out to other game threads? Or should I start going into the PES thread and repeatedly slagging off its weak points (of which there are many if I was petty and trollish enough to care to list)?
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i couldn't agree more buddy!

few members are becoming more and more annoying. :RANT:

they know who they are.
 
Nick Cave said:
Please keep it to three only and try to be succinct and I'll pass them on with my report..
Click to expand...

1. Individual personality needs to be dialled up to eleven. Player Styles and Traits should more noticeably impact all on-pitch AI decisions, particularly in movement/positioning. Preferred foot should be favoured. Attributes still don't have a sufficiently tangible impact on every action, still regularly see Beckham crosses by a guy with 55 Crossing.

2. Greater variation of off-the-ball movement (both in timing and destination), in tandem with more intelligent defensive pressing/marking away from the ball. Continual forward passing is far too accommodated, instant and thoughtless because the next teammate along is never marked.

3. A less 'magnetic' ball. The gravitational pull that players exert on passes & deflections has gone beyond being detrimental, feels so artificial and forced. This is painfully evident with Manual controls.
 
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Placebo said:
So this kind of anti-discussion is permissable in the Fifa thread? Yet I seem to remember that the last time it was like this in the PES thread the moderators stamped down repeatedly on it, I'm all for discussing the pros and cons of a game, however there are some in here who are 100% anti-Fifa and doing nothing but criticising the game, if you have no interest in the game at all (as is completely your right) don't those of us who are interested in Fifa deserve the same respect meted out to other game threads? Or should I start going into the PES thread and repeatedly slagging off its weak points (of which there are many if I was petty and trollish enough to care to list)?
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You are more than welcome to post in the PES thread and voice your opinion in any way you want, excluding flaming, winding up, using the fanboy word in a derogatory way, you know things that do not add any weight to a debate or a discussion.
MadbaLL said:
i couldn't agree more buddy!

few members are becoming more and more annoying. :RANT:

they know who they are.
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:NO:
 
@NickCave

1. Player individuality - this includes greater difference in maximum speed, in control, in passing, shooting, dribbling etc.
All FIFA players feel samey and the difference is marginal. This needed to be fixed two years age, it is pathetic how little has been done.

2. Player weight and inertia. They are same for all players and weight is not pronounced enough while inertia does not exist at all in FIFA.

3. Stamina effects are a joke. If you will keep the spint pressed down all the time, your players shoul not be able to blink let alone sprint in 90th minute.
 
Lami said:
You are more than welcome to post in the PES thread and voice your opinion in any way you want, excluding flaming, winding up, using the fanboy word in a derogatory way, you know things that do not add any weight to a debate or a discussion.
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Posting negatives over and over is trolling, I wouldn't do that and IMO more should be done to control that in this thread, right now there's nothing I've seen to make me interested in PES, so I don't post in there, yet the contrary is happening here and almost seemingly encouraged, why is that?
 
Nick Cave said:
I'm finishing off my CM review for EA but I was just going to add some detail on my gameplay impressions in the footnotes.
From FIFA 11, and given shooting has been tweaked in 12 (how good that will be we will have to wait and see) I'd like to get a feel for what peoples top three issues with the gameplay mechanics are or what they feel needs priority..

Please keep it to three only and try to be succinct and I'll pass them on with my report..

1.

2.

3.
Click to expand...

1. Player movement physics (skating, no momentum, etc.)

2. AI (CPU offensive AI especially)

3 Passing (too slow; Pro Passing too dependent on velocity rather than directional error)

3.5 Unrealistic stamina (short term and long term)
 
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nerf said:
Agree, and what's more, I don't see how any of it would make the game less accessible or less appealing to any gamer type. Surely they would be improvements no matter what your personal taste is? A bit of exciting unpredictability, a bit of depth?

Personally what I crave is exactly that, some depth. That's the more important angle for me than worrying about realism, to a degree. Sure, it doesn't look great when Ashley Cole stops, turns 180 and goes again far quicker/slidey-er than a human should, but I could live with it if I knew that there was an obvious, consistent and tangible difference between his high Agility and a player of low Agility performing the same turn.

I'd like the shot/save scenarios to have a 'less scripted feeling' not because it would be more realistic, but because it would make each shot less predictable and therefore bring more tension and anticipation to any shooting opportunity.

I would like preferred foot dribbling/whatever, not because it's more realistic, but because it would make each player feel different and give them some character. I would like more players to challenge for headers, not necessarily because it's more realistic, but because it would be cool and satistfying to see one player rise amidst a crowd and win it.

There are good, sound, game design reasons for all of those things to be implemented, and we would all, from any end of the gamer type spectrum, enjoy a richer experience without making it any more complicated to pick up.

So it concerns me that we've gone two years with little/no improvement in these things, which makes me think that EA just don't see them, which makes me wonder what the likes of the GameChangers are telling them, or that perhaps they are but have no influence - and that would be a shame.

I find the whole "it is/isn't a sim, it should be more sim, they shouldn't say it's a sim when it's not, but who wants a true sim" debate slightly tedious. There's good game design and there's bad game design. You can make an arcade football game that's rubbish, and you can make a football simulation that's rubbish. A game that is designed with care and intelligence, that nails the right details, is richer and more satisfying for everybody.
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Well said!!! +1

And the sim debate is more than just "slightly" tedious.
 
Wdoleq said:
In PES its great teamplay, in FIFA its pingpong passing.
In PES its realistic mistake, in FIFA its terrible AI.
In PES its great attacking match, in FIFA its arcade style.
PES sales good because its a great game true football fans want to pay for, FIFA sales great because its for casual players.

Welcome to the world of Rob92 where you hope your word is lapidary and 100 times repeated lie will became truth:BOP:
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emoticon_trollface.gif


You only registered here in the last few days and all you've done is make three stupid posts aimed at me, and repeated a point I'd already made before (about true sim being boring).

I'm not saying PES is perfect, nor am I saying FIFA is 100% crap, just that PES is closer to real football gameplay-wise.
If PES has faults, I won't deny their existance (in fact I've pointed them out in the PES thread and been quite critical of some aspects).

Shearer_God said:
Heh, this made me laugh. Pretty much sums up why nothing you said should ever be taken seriously.
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It's true though, nobody here made a proper argument back when disagreeing with me.

Jimmy G-Force said:
What Rob says is technically correct, I agree with him completely. He is actually one of the few I can take very seriously 99.9% of the time. If he has offered up a debate, then please feel free to dissect the statement with a relevant argument. Some views will be subjective, but most of what he writes is factual, and technically correct. If some dont see that, that isnt his problem.
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Thank you! :)

And nice video Gab! FIFA 08 did have much better momentum/inertia, I think FIFA 09's wasn't too bad either - 360 degree control seemed to really mess it up with 10/11.
I also agree with the improvements that are needed - I would probably be back with FIFA if those changes were made.
 
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Nick Cave said:
I'm finishing off my CM review for EA but I was just going to add some detail on my gameplay impressions in the footnotes.
From FIFA 11, and given shooting has been tweaked in 12 (how good that will be we will have to wait and see) I'd like to get a feel for what peoples top three issues with the gameplay mechanics are or what they feel needs priority..

Please keep it to three only and try to be succinct and I'll pass them on with my report..

1.

2.

3.
Click to expand...

1. Momentum/inertia.

2. Toned down keeper reactions/less shot accuracy.

3. More error implemented into everything - first touch/ball control/passing etc.

4. Defensive AI

I know it was meant to 3, but these 4 are the absolute priorities IMO.
 
It's true though, nobody here made a proper argument back when disagreeing with me


Its the second time in a few hours you say something like this...First time you were telling this to me but i let it past...Because with these statements you put your self in a higher ground than others i recommend you to change your Tag in the forum from Rob92 to
'' Yoda of Pes and Fifa ''
 
o S i V a 2 1 o said:
It's true though, nobody here made a proper argument back when disagreeing with me


Its the second time in a few hours you say something like this...First time you were telling this to me but i let it past...Because with these statements you put your self in a higher ground than others i recommend you to change your Tag in the forum from Rob92 to
'' Yoda of Pes and Fifa ''
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facepalm.gif


I've made constructive and mainly factual points, nobody has made an attempt to disprove or constructively argue against them, meaning they don't negate anything I've said.

Please, let's change the topic back to FIFA and how it could be improved.

And about this kind of "anti-FIFA" discussion being allowed or not - why is criticism any less valid to post here than praise?
 
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Rob92 said:
facepalm.gif


I've made constructive and mainly factual points, nobody has made an attempt to disprove or constructively argue against them, meaning they don't negate anything I've said.

Please, let's change the topic back to FIFA and how it could be improved.

And about this kind of "anti-FIFA" discussion being allowed or not - why is criticism any less valid to post here than praise?
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Of course not. However constant negativity tends to derail the discussion (as evident in this thread). We all know the aspects that need improvement; all of the user impressions have said as much, but there is little point in beating a dead horse ;)
 
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