FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

My only worry with a manual modifier is that I don't think it fits that well in PES's control scheme. There are so many different things going in PES on the shoulder buttons. The number of different things that RB and RT do, which react in different orders or in conjunction with different buttons and different timings is, in my opinion, really confusing. I'm fairly used to it, but playing with people who are newer, they find it a nightmare.

Currently, where would it go if you were to fit it in?
 
Rodelero said:
But not all passes are that simple, are they?
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That's right, not ALL passes are that simple, but I think you're overcomplicating things if you think that the majority of passes require the degree of freedom that manual control gives.

Moves in real football are rarely made or broken depending on a few inches aim of a pass - it's generally the decision making, timing and movement that are key.

After all, the purpose of a pass in football is to shift the ball to a teammate - whether that be to their feet or into the space ahead of them to run onto.
Assisted control allows both of these, and a manual modifier would give you the ability to pull off the more extravagant passes not possible with that setup.


Rodelero said:
That's again pretty over simplistic, there is a lot more to shooting - a lot to consider when shooting. How hard, do they try to apply curve, how high? It's quite a lot more complex than just corners or hit it at the target.
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This one I disagree on - when you play football in real life you rarely process all of that in your mind before having a pop at goal and I bet if you were to ask a professional footballer they would tell you the same.

Usually you control the finish, put your laces through it, wrap your foot around it to get some swerve on the ball or perhaps occasionally try a chip. The outcome is generally down to technique and the execution of the strike - not where you aimed to the exact degree (plus no footballer "aims" away from goal).

Rodelero said:
I think you mistake 'realistic' with a degradation of interactivity. It would be 'more' realistic if I had no control at all, if we assume that the AI is reasonably intelligent. This is a disagreement merely on the grounds of a difference of opinion about how much control one should have over our players minds.
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I see your point, but in the example I used, manual control makes it practically impossible to have a reasonable effort on goal - in situations where you're not expecting the ball to arrive and you're pointing the analog stick away from goal because you're running a player somewhere or something, when your player should just be turning and flicking the ball towards goal, they could well just blast the ball out for a throw as if they're actually aiming there. Crazy.

Rodelero said:
My only worry with a manual modifier is that I don't think it fits that well in PES's control scheme. There are so many different things going in PES on the shoulder buttons. The number of different things that RB and RT do, which react in different orders or in conjunction with different buttons and different timings is, in my opinion, really confusing. I'm fairly used to it, but playing with people who are newer, they find it a nightmare.

Currently, where would it go if you were to fit it in?
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The current control setup is kind of an "all-or-nothing" approach - you're either assisted or you're manual on a full-time basis. If, like me, you prefer to use an assisted setup for most of your passing with the occasional manual through ball/long ball, that isn't possible.
If you're on assisted passing and manual through balls, you still have the regular passing, but EVERY through ball is manual.
I'm not sure where you'd put it on the controller - RB is now taken for that new driven pass, LT is the slow dribble (if I remember correctly), LB is the "pass and move" button and RT is sprint, so all of the shoulder buttons in FIFA are taken.
 
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Makes great points then goes on to inadvertently highlight how fifa defenders can't defend against tricks like the marseille roulette. I say he did an alright job overall.
 
For me the passes should be like this:

:x: : assistes pass, like it is today;
:triangle: : manual pass, they should end up with through passes button and make it full manual with the % of success based on player atributes, would make the game much more challanger;
:l1: + :triangle: : long manual pass, but again it should be full manual with the % of success based on player atributes;
:circle: : long pass assisted.

That way people would have to learn to use the manual if they want to have advantages playing online, once the through balles would be full manual controled.
 
Honome_WEC said:
For me the passes should be like this:

:x: : assistes pass, like it is today;
:triangle: : manual pass, they should end up with through passes button and make it full manual with the % of success based on player atributes, would make the game much more challanger;
:l1: + :triangle: : long manual pass, but again it should be full manual with the % of success based on player atributes;
:circle: : long pass assisted.

That way people would have to learn to use the manual if they want to have advantages playing online, once the through balles would be full manual controled.
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No i think PES has nailed the system, with the modifier. We just need assisted through balls to be more erratic!

Forcing manual won't sort out the defensive AI which is missing in FIFA and in PES is there but online is screwed because of the regular AI.
 
You guys think the keepers arms when saving the ball will make use of the Impact Engine™ too? Could mean we'll get more variety of outcome of the save and not feel so scripted as it does currently. Like the arms being pushed back more by a harder shot and so on. Or maybe it's only used in collisions between players.
 
Gab_ said:
You guys think the keepers arms when saving the ball will make use of the Impact Engine™ too? Could mean we'll get more variety of outcome of the save and not feel so scripted as it does currently. Like the arms being pushed back more by a harder shot and so on. Or maybe it's only used in collisions between players.
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Adding to this if you get accidentally elbowed or fall on your head, do players break their neck?
 
http://www.facebook.com/easportsfifa/posts/10150201520594288

It would be nice...

save.jpg
 
kobayashi said:
No i think PES has nailed the system, with the modifier. We just need assisted through balls to be more erratic!

Forcing manual won't sort out the defensive AI which is missing in FIFA and in PES is there but online is screwed because of the regular AI.
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I hate the limited options that PES gives for settings and prefer how FIFA gives me more options to choose from in controller settings. You're right that forcing manual isn't the way to go, but neither is forcing assisted.

Like I said before, we'll all never agree on a preferred control setting, so the best answer is to give as many options as possible while eliminating, or at least limiting, imbalances between the settings.

(Although I agree 100 percent about through balls in PES!)
 
Rob92 said:
That's right, not ALL passes are that simple, but I think you're overcomplicating things if you think that the majority of passes require the degree of freedom that manual control gives.

Moves in real football are rarely made or broken depending on a few inches aim of a pass - it's generally the decision making, timing and movement that are key.

After all, the purpose of a pass in football is to shift the ball to a teammate - whether that be to their feet or into the space ahead of them to run onto.
Assisted control allows both of these, and a manual modifier would give you the ability to pull off the more extravagant passes not possible with that setup.


This one I disagree on - when you play football in real life you rarely process all of that in your mind before having a pop at goal and I bet if you were to ask a professional footballer they would tell you the same.

Usually you control the finish, put your laces through it, wrap your foot around it to get some swerve on the ball or perhaps occasionally try a chip. The outcome is generally down to technique and the execution of the strike - not where you aimed to the exact degree (plus no footballer "aims" away from goal).

I see your point, but in the example I used, manual control makes it practically impossible to have a reasonable effort on goal - in situations where you're not expecting the ball to arrive and you're pointing the analog stick away from goal because you're running a player somewhere or something, when your player should just be turning and flicking the ball towards goal, they could well just blast the ball out for a throw as if they're actually aiming there. Crazy.
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I think you overestimate the difficulty of manually passing and shooting. Manual passing for me is instinctive. I can choose how fast, where, and how. Whether or not you feel it should be easier or more instinctive than that, it's simply a better system right now in my opinion for choosing where and how to pass, cross, lob, or shoot. FIFA especially, and PES to an extent, continually misunderstands what I want to do on a pass. It isn't inaccurate because it's hard pass, it's inaccurate because it thinks I'm trying to pass to someone else, or because it thinks I want to push the ball through that gap, rather than this gap, or because it pushes it to the goalside of my player even when I want it the other side.

For me to say that I don't want manual, as a control scheme ala FIFA, would require it to get to the point where it grant me freedom to make 99% of the passes I wanted and to actually understand what I'm telling it to do each time. There may well be a time when the AI behind the passing will be good enough, but it's just not right now.

FIFA's assisted and semi system are MILES off producing something better.

PES's system is better, satisfactory even, but it's still not as good at working out what I'm thinking as I want.

You can make some very strong hypothetical cases about what might be ideal, but the reality is that while AI is as flawed as it is, it's not going to suddenly make people feel that manual doesn't give them something more.

A manual modifier may well be nice, but it still doesn't solve this problem. I don't know when my game is going to misconstrue my instructions. You have to predict when you'll need it, which is a massive pain.

The current control setup is kind of an "all-or-nothing" approach - you're either assisted or you're manual on a full-time basis. If, like me, you prefer to use an assisted setup for most of your passing with the occasional manual through ball/long ball, that isn't possible.
If you're on assisted passing and manual through balls, you still have the regular passing, but EVERY through ball is manual.
I'm not sure where you'd put it on the controller - RB is now taken for that new driven pass, LT is the slow dribble (if I remember correctly), LB is the "pass and move" button and RT is sprint, so all of the shoulder buttons in FIFA are taken.
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I'm just trying to think how it would fit. RB seems the most obvious choice, as there is no Y+RB or A+RB currently (although quite a lot of suggestions have been made for their use), but obviously that doesn't help with lobbed throughballs. A manual modifier for ground passes would be a pretty big improvement though. AND it could free it up to an alternative use for manual users still (like something to make up for the lack of curved passes ^.^).

Frankly though, this debate is kind of pointless. I think manual has a place in these games right now, a manual modifier is nice, but I don't think it completely solves the need or sates the desire.
 
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Maybe you're after a system where there is a visual indicator above the target player's head and if you don't like the choice made by the AI you shift the stick until it locks on the right player and if that still isn't where you want to pass the ball, use a manual modifier.

Maybe this could work if the right stick wasn't used by FIFA for knock ons but instead, being able to change the highlighted recipient of the pass. That is, move and dribble with the left stick, your AI selected pass recipient is highlighted and if you press pass it will go towards him and if you don't want him you flick the right stick to select someone else or use the manual modifier.

Just thinking out loud here...
 
The animations look great. However, the problem with FIFA has been that there are far too many collisions to begin with. All they seem to be doing is making them look more realistic! So they have reduced the heat seeking missile defenders and eliminated auto tackle but now give you more reason to slide tackle in the midfield, just so you can injure the opposition players?

I'll reserve full gameplay judgement til we've seen more but it does look good visually.
 
Honome_WEC said:
For me the passes should be like this:

:x: : assistes pass, like it is today;
:triangle: : manual pass, they should end up with through passes button and make it full manual with the % of success based on player atributes, would make the game much more challanger;
:l1: + :triangle: : long manual pass, but again it should be full manual with the % of success based on player atributes;
:circle: : long pass assisted.

That way people would have to learn to use the manual if they want to have advantages playing online, once the through balles would be full manual controled.
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I like the set-up. I'd love to see the through ball go and have a one button manual pass instead. It's a hassle for me having to press 2 buttons every time I want to pass manually. Manual long passes aren't a problem though, because they're not performed as much as short passes.
 
kobayashi said:
No i think PES has nailed the system, with the modifier. We just need assisted through balls to be more erratic!

Forcing manual won't sort out the defensive AI which is missing in FIFA and in PES is there but online is screwed because of the regular AI.
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I agree. Passing system in pes is great.

Just need better ball physics (more variable passing speed like in real life, specially for forward passes).
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
The animations look great. However, the problem with FIFA has been that there are far too many collisions to begin with. All they seem to be doing is making them look more realistic! So they have reduced the heat seeking missile defenders and eliminated auto tackle but now give you more reason to slide tackle in the midfield, just so you can injure the opposition players?

I'll reserve full gameplay judgement til we've seen more but it does look good visually.
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Pretty much this. Can't count how many times I've had pile ups in the midfield, with the ball sort of bouncing between two bodies while other players jump and/or trip over the bodies.

Of course now some of those players will be injured :D
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
The animations look great. However, the problem with FIFA has been that there are far too many collisions to begin with. All they seem to be doing is making them look more realistic! So they have reduced the heat seeking missile defenders and eliminated auto tackle but now give you more reason to slide tackle in the midfield, just so you can injure the opposition players?

I'll reserve full gameplay judgement til we've seen more but it does look good visually.
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Won't be long now before we find out whether the impact engine is a purely cosmetic addition. I do like how they seem to recover from a fall quicker with a body roll. The new collision system also seems to affect the outcome of headers so hopefully that leads to bigger variety of those glancing types.
 
As EA said and demonstrated during the webcast, the main thing the impact engine offers is a much more even-handed physicality. Attackers are far less likely to be obliterated by simple contacts as happens in past FIFAs. The end result (or so it seems) is a game that feels less physical.
 
I thought about maybe not posting it, but it's the first thing that comes up on Youtube if you search FIFA 12 IGN, and the marketing isn't really so much for us as for the sorts of people who get excited by videos announcing screenshots..!
 
romagnoli said:
As EA said and demonstrated during the webcast, the main thing the impact engine offers is a much more even-handed physicality. Attackers are far less likely to be obliterated by simple contacts as happens in past FIFAs. The end result (or so it seems) is a game that feels less physical.
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True.

Having watched it just the once, Torres rides a challenge with minimal fuss. Also, look at the defenders in most instances. World class players you'd expect to make these challenges.

Damn you, EA. You've got me again. :RANT:
 
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