Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Age.
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I'm not however, a fan of re-implementing any form of manual growth, the way of buying abilities for players in PES is also a no-no for me.
Nothing in the game of football should be a given, adding adjustable training and proper interactive coaching staff though would be a far better than the very banal way it's implemented at the moment...
Age.
Yeah, I have to say this was my thought when reading mfmaxpower's essay.It does also overly place the blame for FIFA 11's poor CM on focussing on realism - it's poor because there's barely anything there at all.
Perhaps now that they've appointed a Creative Director to career mode (what took so long?) we might actually see something approaching gameplay in future versions.
Yeah, I have to say this was my thought when reading mfmaxpower's essay.
Ultimately we have the same goal in mind, but I disagree with the reasoning that a focus on realism is the cause of the problem. *The reason multiple-choice questions were ditched was not because they were realistic or unrealistic, they were just... s**t. *Ditching stadium upgrades was not due to realism or otherwise, it was just implemented in a dull and pointless way.
There's nothing realistic about the email system they've recently added.
I don't believe that it's a misguided chasing of realism that's the issue... simply poor design. *Perhaps now that they've appointed a Creative Director to career mode (what took so long?) we might actually see something approaching gameplay in future versions.
Fair enough. Nothing you or Rom said I necessarily disagree with, and I probably framed my argument incorrectly, placing too much blame at the feet of realism for realism's sake.
Ultimately we all pretty much want the same thing, although I appear much more open to the idea of sacrificing some realism for the sake of greater user-input and hence immersion than some others, like maybe Nick. My real point is that the more options that can be included the better, so that we can all have our various preferences for realism vs fantasy satisfied.
Simon Humber (is that the new creative director?) did excellent work on the WC game, including his fantastic participation rate on the forums, so his addition can be nothing but a good thing in my eyes. Placebo is right to be frothing at the mouth but let's at least wait until we hear what he's got to say about 12 before we hang him out dry.
In games dev it's important to have people whose role is purely creative direction, who are responsible for making sure things are good rather than merely existing. Otherwise you just churn out stuff with no quality control. So I think that could be encouraging, and we'll have to judge on what happens with 12 rather than the past.Where is this new creative director addressing all of the issues with 11? Where is this new creative director letting us know how all these past problems will be remedied for 12 on?
As we mentioned previously, we’ve spent some time working on an update for FIFA 11 on PS3 and Xbox 360 in response to the feedback you’ve given us. Firstly, apologies for the delay in providing this updated information - there were some late changes to the content which made it impossible to talk about anything with any certainty until that was locked down.
The title update we’ve prepared – which also now includes some fixes for Ultimate Team - has now been completed and is with Sony and Microsoft for final checks, so we’re now able to tell you more about what it will contain.
FIFA 11
The three things we will address for the FIFA 11 main game are the biggest asks from the community currently, so we’re glad to be able to improve things here for you.
* Firstly, we will be fixing an issue with FIFA 11’s Clubs mode which allows clubs to unfairly end games without a penalty when they are losing: The so-called Trigger Glitch. This involves clubs arranging a disconnection to the game via the Player Ratings screen. To make extra sure that this issue is completely resolved for you, we will be removing this screen from the pause menu of all online modes.
* Secondly, we will be addressing poor teammate AI when playing as a Virtual Pro. Our fix will make sure that, no matter what difficulty you set for your opponent, your team AI will be much improved, making for an altogether better experience when playing the game in this way.
* Finally, we will correct a problem where your Virtual Pro can’t be brought into your Career Mode game.
I doubt it. They probably just changed which difficulty level they are controlled by in BAP mode. Probably changed a single variable from 1 to 4...Also I'd be keen to find out whether the BAP AI improvements also translate into improvements in AI in general in all game modes? Is it too optimistic to assume my striker will not be make runs to the wing every 2 minutes now?!?
Placebo, I think you need to check your blood pressure
I must confess i usually play on full manual but yesterday i played a game on assisted v my friend and to me it seems fairly obvious that when they're programming and tweaking the game the focus is very much on how assisted works.
On assisted the issue of being tackled easily isn't half as bad IMO.
My main issue with manual is how easily you can be tackled when attempting to pass which often means that rather than having the ability to power up the pass and aim you will be tackled in that extra half a second it takes to do this. If you're within 8 yards of an opposition player you feel so overly pressured because of how easy it is to be tackled. So basically when i'm in the final third unless somebody is in clear space running down the wing or looking to make a run through the middle i will lose the ball more oftent than not because i can't do anything before i'm tackled. A lot of the time i end up completely screwing up passes by not being able to apply the desired amount of power to pass or being able to aim them well enough, which is something i find easy enough normally, before my opponent goes in for the tackle. It is more prevalent in passes below 10 yards which end up going nowhere (seriously why are they harder to achieve than 25 yard passes?).
Anyway so i put it on assisted and because of the fact you basically have to press the pass button once and it does the work for you you end up feeling that you have so much more time. You don't feel pressured at all and the stupid tackling system doesn't seem half as bad (though it's still easy obviously) because everything is instantaneous and you don't really have to fear the opposition half as much. It's so easy.
The amount of tackles in my assisted game didn't seem that bad compared to the tackle fest that often overshadows my manual games (10 min half, usually 50ish tackles for me alone). I know manual should be harder and that's why i use it but the ease of tackling really ruins the basic elements of manual (i.e the passing game) and makes the game end up looking really scrappy. I can only think that the devs don't really care about how elements of their game which work on assisted undermine manual. If you have learned how to pass on manual it shouldn't be the annoyance it is just because they refuse to tone down tackling.
Seriously does anybody else find it difficult in the opposition's half using manual? I just don't feel like i have enough control.
It's difficult, sure. But far less boring.Seriously does anybody else find it difficult in the opposition's half using manual? I just don't feel like i have enough control.
It's not acceptable at all, it's rubbish, but... did you expect any better? I didn'tSorry if everyone else thinks it's perfectly acceptable we wait 6 months for an update and it fixes fuck all.
It's not acceptable at all, it's rubbish, but... did you expect any better? I didn't
I'm with you on the user input. They can't seem to get the basics right let alone put realism in it. I need some control on how my players develop, whoever wants to be realistic can be realistic manually. I had over 10,000 unused exp points per player in either 08 or 09, at least then you can try your best to make it realistic.
Perhaps they can set up a system where you designate what type of player you want to train him to be and then the growth is automatic from there. I.e you can assign a cm as a deep lying play maker which makes the bulk of his growth on passing, vision, ball control etc. or assign him as a box to box which would make the bulk of his growth on movement, stamina, defense, aggression etc.,etc.
Your personal opinions aside, I hope that as a GC and a representative of the community you are not ignoring the massive segment of CM fans who consider re-instituting user-input into the player development system a top priority. From comments made here, at FSB, on the official forums, and elsewhere, it's pretty clear that returning player growth to a more interactive feature is one of the more popular wishes for FIFA 12's CM.
I'm not sure what you mean by "nothing in a game of football should be a given," and I can't even begin to understand after the debacle with growth this year why anyone would be adamant against the return of an optional feature like manual growth. If you didn't like it before you never were forced to use it, and if you're opposing an optional feature just on principle, well ultimately you're just cock-blocking... you don't want to be known as the cock-blocking GC do you!?
Your opposition to re-implementing manual growth is somewhat irrelevant, however, since none of us have been suggesting a return of the old system. While many people on forums have suggested that we'd be in a better situation this year if we had the option of manual growth - a sentiment I agree with considering the poor state of player development in CM, and again because we're talking about what was an optional feature - the more forward thinking of us fans have almost universally suggested a player development system that lies somewhere between the two extremes of no user-input and manual micro-management.
And manual player growth was OPTIONAL dammit!
Had some good manual games against a French guy but then couldn't get another for love nor money.Not that I was offering either.
It really did highlight how the game needs to make close control and those attacker vs defender duels much more prominent. The best game was Spurs vs Dortmund, the game was very open so it was a lot easier to position yourself to take a player on or to be ready to react if he started moving towards you. But as we went on and played more games he started to be a lot more pressure happy, putting my body in the way worked less and less, and the little direction changes that served Modric so well stopped working as the pressurer could immediately wrap his leg around my player, taking the ball with him and bombing up the pitch to tackle the next of my players to receive the loose ball. Of course, he could see that it was working so he carried on doing it.
I'm still of the same opinion that issuing 'XP' points is a very poor way of implementing any kind of development in the game and though I'm not against anything being added as an "Option" I would still fail to see how this system would/did add anything to the feeling of involvement or emotional connection with my players.
I would however love to see a much more in-depth and adjustable training and coaching set up that could go some way to emulate the real world. This could include youth squads through to coaching and training staff, along with a proper scouting system. This is, I feel where the Dev team should be aiming to take the whole CM. In my opinion FIFA has the pick up and play fun factor already there, it's the realism that's sadly lacking, especially in the CM, which is where it's the most important aspect.
As for the "nothing guaranteed" term, I meant just that, issuing points for a guaranteed return or spending money to build your Terminator, for me is just not the way I want EA to go. I'd much rather do it through training and having the staff there to spot and develop the players abilities.
This could be then be altered and adapted to the users heart's content, you could even through the use of sliders, zip that 69 overall donkey to a Messi god in a season and a half if that's what you want.
From the outset this year EA said they wanted the CM mode to concentrate on the Managers side of the game. As such this is limited to staff and team management and not stadium building, ticket prices or any other facilities run by the Board or Chairman. Unfortunately EA also failed to give us the majority of the tools required to carry out this job, let alone do it with any real sense of realism. Those we are given, are for the most part poorly implemented and ill-conceived efforts from the previous title.
On the sliders this is something we as GC's have been very vocal on from the beginning and for me is the only real way forward I can see, given the seemingly massive diversity of end users the game covers and for the record I'm not Pro realism and Anti fun, I'm just after a better product that's as close to the real game as is possible, then make it adjustable and accessible so everyone can get what they want from it...
Unless I'm reading you wrong, both our ideal systems for player development are more alike than different. The difference in our outlook to me seems to be that you have more faith in EA's ability to find the right balance between realism and fun than I do. I consider giving the user as much input as possible as a method to ensure that my level of enjoyment is more reliant on my own decisions rather than the devs.
And "XP" is just a general frame of reference term. Call it what you will but the game code running the features under the hood require a way to define real world dynamics in mathematical terms. Using "XP" is just a necessary evil incorporated into games so the human player is given the necessary feedback to make decisions and play the game. Like I said, call it what you want, but whether the growth system is fully auto, fully manual, or an adjustable training and coaching system like you suggest, either way experience is being earned behind the scenes that the game must then turn into changes in player attributes.
As for how having control over XP allotment enhanced the level of immersion for many of us, it's a pretty simple concept: user-input = immersion and connection; user-input into player development = connection and attachment to players and growth process. User-input and immersion are typically correlated - when you tend to have more of the former, you also tend to have more of the latter.
In any case, what you've described - "in-depth and adjustable training and coaching" - is more or less exactly what I'd like to see implemented; you're essentially describing option "b" from my earlier post. Only I consider it a good idea to have a backup plan, you know, in case EA makes a mess of things, again. And also because some fans will not be satisfied unless they have absolute control, and why not let people play the game the way they would like to when it's such a painless concession to make and has no bearing whatsoever on everyone else's experience.