Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[glen]

Do you find this with many players? I mostly use lower rated teams in CM - like with my Las Palmas CM right now - and while I'll see dragbacks, I rarely see much else. Sometimes it seems like EA sees lower rated footballers as Sunday-leaguers. Las Palmas may be second division but they still are Spanish for god's sake!

I mentioned this in a previous post but we're basically talking about the same thing: that while defensive, tackling, and collision animations increased dramatically this past year, it is time to add more dribbling animations and these could be paired to the close dribble control.

Simple, subtle dribbling and movement animations, in conjunction with improved shielding and more realistic defensive responses, would help to better empower L2. That and also increasing ball touches vis-a-vis regular dribbling, like nerf said, for increased control and agility.

I have seen it in my Peterborough CM but notice it mostly with the 4* and 4* plus sides.

Its sort of like it automatically triggers a skill dribble to avoid tackles or when getting the ball in congested areas. I notice it much more online due to the natural latency and opponents not being as considered as the AI is offline (button mashers basically)

I will try a few different mid to bottom tier teams to see if I get it or notice it.

There definitely needs to be more realistic fidelity in the control system with more animations but also more sensitive definition in the inputs.

In fact they could just tone the pressure down 2 notches and increase dribbling responsiveness and you have almost a fairly good convergence for most types of players (competitive, casual, hardcore).

This would give most of us the tools we need to play how we want competitively against the AI and real players.

I am simplifying here of course.

 

[EatonTJ]

Do you find this with many players? I mostly use lower rated teams in CM - like with my Las Palmas CM right now - and while I'll see dragbacks, I rarely see much else. Sometimes it seems like EA sees lower rated footballers as Sunday-leaguers. Las Palmas may be second division but they still are Spanish for god's sake!

I mentioned this in a previous post but we're basically talking about the same thing: that while defensive, tackling, and collision animations increased dramatically this past year, it is time to add more dribbling animations and these could be paired to the close dribble control.

Simple, subtle dribbling and movement animations, in conjunction with improved shielding and more realistic defensive responses, would help to better empower L2. That and also increasing ball touches vis-a-vis regular dribbling, like nerf said, for increased control and agility.

Just FYI, when I refer to slow dribbling I don't necessarily mean dribbling while holding down the L2/LT button. While yes, using the L2/LT does increase touches on the ball, it also activates a few animations when attempting extremely sharp turns that I think are ineffective in most situations... especially the dragback turn, which (just like in real life) is too slow and invites a defender to pounce upon you to take the ball.

What I'm (usually) referring to is dribbling simply when your character is moving slowly with no trigger modifiers. Depending on your use of analog stick (and I suppose depending on whether you use analog running control which I do) you can make your player travel at a few different levels of jogging pace. Different pace levels seem to activate different possible animations, and I find most of them to be very effective.

For example, with better dribbling players, you can execute the shot fake turn with just cutting up and down the field with the analog stick alone. However, what makes this better than the typical "shoot button + pass button" shot fake is that this fake can be canceled into other animations immediately allowing for some bamboozlement of the defenders. It take some finesse to get the timing down (sort of like using canceling in a fighting game) but it does open up a lot of possibilities.

If you are trying to give dribbling an honest go from a different approach, I'd give it a try.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I totally agree with nerf and many other's ideas on here, but unless EA sort out the aggression levels of challenges, positive changes would be for nothing. Smoother dribbling, inertia, everything, means nothing if the AI can still batter into the back of you, knock your player flying to the ground, and get away without a foul. This is the bizarre reality of FIFA since 10, and worse still in 11. Oddly, AI pressure seemed far more balanced in the World Cup game, which despite being fast and 'arcardey' in places, still allowed a far less annoying experience because the AI actually let you, occasionally, attempt to do something out of the ordinary.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally behind the ideas being put forward, but unless the ability to challenge from the game AI is reduced to a more tactical level rather than being aggression based, the game will never be fun and certainly not realistic.

I can't overstate how important a realistic reflection of stamina would be. Players should only really have a burst of sprinting speed for a very short period, and frequent use of sprinting should severely knacker every aspect of their game from that point on. It's far too easy for people online, or the game AI, to use sprint as a main defensive weapon. It allows people to cover bizarre amounts of ground in crazily short periods of time, pressure, then make other players around them be able to easily cover the space left behind because they too can sprint non stop.

Likewise, the AI physics are massively outbalanced in their favour. They seem impossible to knock off the ball, yet your players fall to the floor with every challenge. The bizarre thing is, in friendly matches, travelling slower with a sense of balance actually makes it so that, if you do get barged off the ball, you still have sufficient balance to recover and win it back, making it quite a decent, realistic physical tussle for the ball. Not so in other modes, or online. Your player just falls over, often in a strange way that goes against gravity.

Until these fundamentals are fixed then I can't see how any realistic implementation of dribbling will improve the game. The heavy pressure and defending will simply overpower it in much the same way that pro passing and personality plus are made totally redundant because of the very reasons I've described.

Sprinting and the actual overpowered moment of when you are tackled, are the two things that are ruining this game. Hopefully some of what nerf has suggested would aleviate that, but EA won't implement it.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Romily said on Twitter it's not growth sadly.

@RomilyBroad is player growth for under 23 year olds in CM something you are looking to fix?

@dom_bell for the future, displaying that info better - for sure. Right now be sure to look at attributes as well as overall.

Wait, so they think player growth is working fine, it's just not displaying correctly?

And also, how exactly am I meant to pay attention to attributes? Right them down? Make a bloody spreadsheet?

Even if player growth is not displayed well - which it isn't - I still think the way players grow, as in who grows (or declines!) and their rate of growth, is out of whack. In my Las Palmas CM (which I've now been fired for but we won't talk about that) at the midway point of my first season I had a total of three players see changes in their overalls: a starting winger went +1 (deservingly); a substitute winger went +1 (undeservingly IMO); and my starting CB went -1 (absolutely undeservingly IMO!). All players were under the age of 25.

So even if player development is poorly displayed, I still don't see how the growth system makes sense (unless he means the information being shown us is simply wrong, in which case it's ridiculous they haven't released a fix), and I don't get Rom's emphasis on displaying growth better rather than making player development a more logical, satisfying, and fun feature. Someone please tell me how I am suppose to enjoy a career mode - which is suppose to be about developing a club - when my starting CB, who is one of my best youth players, decreases in OVR despite putting in solid performances regularly?

Anyone have tips on tracking growth so that it is a more worthwhile feature and makes a bit of sense? Am I missing something here or is improving how player development is conveyed only one half of the equation - and both halves need some serious work?

 

[Placebo]

Everyone knows the growth model is completely flawed, Romily just for whatever reason refuses to admit it, he already posted some time back on the forums some ridiculous explanation of how as he sees it the growth is modelled correctly, which is just nonsense.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Everyone knows the growth model is completely flawed, Romily just for whatever reason refuses to admit it, he already posted some time back on the forums some ridiculous explanation of how as he sees it the growth is modelled correctly, which is just nonsense.

That's always been my opinion... and yet there are people out there that say they believe CM to be a decent game mode.

In my mind, career or club management game modes are about progression and the development of your squad and club. Player development is one of, if not the, cornerstone of progressing your squad (and arguably it is the cornerstone when other features like form are nonexistent), so to have that feature be such a mess and so illogical and claim that CM is even half-way decent is absurd.

I don't believe that EA employees and the devs on an individual level are evil, but boy EA are sure doing a good job making me despise them for their attitude and approach - to gameplay, game modes, their fans, etc. If this is the level of respect and attention CM is going to receive moving forward I think I'd just assume they combine CM into a single player branch of UT, because at least then CM might get some of that TLC that EA has been showing their new cash-cow game mode.

I'd love to hear from some of the guys with behind the scenes access to assure us that the devs have a somewhat different point of view when off the record. If what Romily and Gary have said publicly is all there is to it, well then this is all one massive waste of time.

 

[EatonTJ]

Wait, so they think player growth is working fine, it's just not displaying correctly?

And also, how exactly am I meant to pay attention to attributes? Right them down? Make a bloody spreadsheet?

Even if player growth is not displayed well - which it isn't - I still think the way players grow, as in who grows (or declines!) and their rate of growth, is out of whack. In my Las Palmas CM (which I've now been fired for but we won't talk about that) at the midway point of my first season I had a total of three players see changes in their overalls: a starting winger went +1 (deservingly); a substitute winger went +1 (undeservingly IMO); and my starting CB went -1 (absolutely undeservingly IMO!). All players were under the age of 25.

So even if player development is poorly displayed, I still don't see how the growth system makes sense (unless he means the information being shown us is simply wrong, in which case it's ridiculous they haven't released a fix), and I don't get Rom's emphasis on displaying growth better rather than making player development a more logical, satisfying, and fun feature. Someone please tell me how I am suppose to enjoy a career mode - which is suppose to be about developing a club - when my starting CB, who is one of my best youth players, decreases in OVR despite putting in solid performances regularly?

Anyone have tips on tracking growth so that it is a more worthwhile feature and makes a bit of sense? Am I missing something here or is improving how player development is conveyed only one half of the equation - and both halves need some serious work?

I think EA understands the problems and will give fixing growth another shot in FIFA 12, I wouldn't worry about whether they will try or not, it's something they've tried to fix with each version.

I do think that growth would appear less flawed if it was presented better, namely, showing you the actual increase in attributes instead of just showing you if the overall rating has gone up or down. I'm guessing that some of the attributes probably grow realistically enough, while others are way off. But again, since we can't see any of it, we have no idea. It is definitely presented poorly.

And on top of poor presentation, all the "math" behind the player growth is pretty flawed. Players only seem to progress correlating to actual matches played, whereas in real life nearly all improvements come with practice and age. Certainly, you have to get some match experience, but not to the extreme that FIFA 12 requires. And for the CPU teams, none of their players seem to grow realistically. Once you start searching the transfer market for players with certain attributes, they all seem to disappear as you get to the ages of the regen players. Obviously, something is missing here.

Regardless, I have no doubts they will make another effort at player growth, hopefully this time they will get it right. I'd love for there to be some sort of player/manager input on how the players grow, just to make it interesting.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

PES' growth in the old versions* was really good imo, atleast the presentation of it. You would finish a match and then you would get a squadlist and the player improvements would generate. If I remember correctly, you could go to a player and see his individual improvements aswell.

* Don't know if it's still present in the current version.

Was playing 11 again last night, the menu's are so poorly constructed, it feels like there are another 3 or 4 games running in the background with the speed, response of it.

 

[nerf]

Whether the underlying logic works or not (I suspect the latter), Growth is yet another classic example of gameplay being hamstrung by shoddy after-thought (if thought of at all) UI.

It's another tick-a-box feature. "We want player growth". So some programmer goes away and codes some complicated growth logic, which may or may not work as he intended, and it's put in a box and shipped. No care is subsequently applied to the way this information is presented or interacted with. It's half a job. (Do EA even employ designers or people in positions of creative control, or is it just coder monkeys and task masters?)

TikTikTikTik mentions the PES growth, which worked not because it presented it in detail, but purely because you got that instant feedback. Straight after a match it said 'this is who has grown from this game and how', and you instantly had a grip on how growth xp worked and what was happening. I'm not saying you necessarily need that particular screen (it's a little bit Japanese RPG), just that clear and direct feedback is invaluable.

You want to know: who is developing (or not), how much they are developing (or not), and crucially what has caused them to develop (or not)... and from that learn how best you can influence their development.

You want to be able to send young players on loan and see how that experience has developed them when they return. You want to be able to focus players in a certain direction (choose to emphasise phsyical training, or defensive training, or tactical training etc).

As mfmaxpower mentioned above, development is the fundamental building block of a management game. Moulding and shaping the players/club is the whole point, it shouldn't be a passive thing.

Right now, sometimes some players' OVR go up and sometimes they go down, and I don't really understand why, and I can't do much about it. Well that's 'fun' [/sarcasm]

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I definitely preferred the PES way of developing players in the PS2 days. It was simple, but effective. You'd have a player, and his potential for growth, then that would increase depending on that potential and how often he plays, but also during pre-season you could allocate specific areas to train each player. You could improve, in slight amounts, every player's specific stats, and build that player how you, as a coach, wanted them to develop. This was all within reason of course. If you wanted to develop Fabregas as a big defensive midfielder, you couldn't, but nuances of his attacking play could be adapted to how you wanted it to, such as passing, teamwork, concentration, fitness, shooting etc.

FIFA09 kinda tried this, but got it wrong. You could develop each player's individual stats, but in excess, meaning every player could end up with a rating of 99.

PES did this with certain players, but others could be built from an 18 year old squad player to a steady first teamer at 75+. It was basic, but quite funny how it still works better now than in games nearly 10 years on.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

PES 11' developing is spot on I think.

 

[mjp]

Finally bought this over the weekend after trying PES2011 for a few months.

Initially, playing against my son in Friendlies, I was more than happy to have bought it(*)so once he'd gone to bed I cracked open the Stellas and began a CM campaign.

Oh dear.

The speed of the game and the intense pressing of the AI made me think the beer had gone to my head in record time.

I tried again last night, sober, to see how it was and I had 3 very frustrating games where it seemed impossible to play a posession game at all.

Back to PES2011 for me and the quickest trade in of a game in my life.


(*) Traded in for COD for -£8

 

[Northzzz]

Both games try to be too complex nowadays in their career modes but fail and player development is very much part of that.

I guess they both wanted to be more 'clever' about things but ultimately forgot about what worked in simplicity. Me thinks it's part and parcel of them trying new ideas to seem like the series is evolving. Nice in theory but it proves to be a bit rubbish in practice, especially FIFA. I'm not too sure how PES 2011's system really works after a while because i think ML is a joyless practice compared to PES 5 which i play over it for the career mode.

The old PES system meant that you couldn't abuse it, saw the benefit of playing players in the first team and ultimately you could make players better through first team experience. It was more akin to a basic RPG level up system. I think part of what makes PES 2011 worse is that some stats seem arbitrary whereas the old PES' felt like they put effort into making sure stats for players were right and a good reflection of the players. I think the attributes of players is much better in Fifa 11 than PES 2011 (look at how overrated players like Owen + Heskey are IN pes) but its a shame that most stats make zip difference in FIFA.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

The stats in PES increase based on apperances and the relevance of play within the game. For example, a player that completes a large percentage of passes in a game will see his passing related stats increase. The same for strikers with goals and assists. They even take it one step further and concentrate on point allocation per postition. So a defender's passing stats will not increase as much as a CMF's passing stats for the same outlay. I always assumed this was based around a defenders passing during play being less creative and more short distance in application.

 

[mfmaxpower]

A major shortcoming of FIFA - and I'm thinking of this in terms of CM and player development but it is equally relevant to Personality+ and other aspects of player representation and performance - is the lack of an emotional attachment between you and your players. Or if there is an attachment, it is far weaker than it could and should be. I don't think any veteran of both PES and FIFA wouldn't argue that player personality/individuality as well as creating an emotional connection to the players has traditionally been a strength in PES and a relative weakness in FIFA.

What hasn't been alluded to enough is how player growth in CM (and ML) is not just a feature to replicate the real-world progression (or regression) of players, but it's also about providing a critical link between you and your club. The first role - to simulate realistic changes in player skills and abilities - is debated endlessly on all the forums: player growth is too slow or too fast; young players don't grow or don't grow quick enough; the way players develop relative to match performances is not calibrated correctly; players should develop even if not playing every match; etc. What frequently is missing from the discussion, however, is player growth's impact on your connection to the game - on how much you care for the characters in the story.

Management-type modes (MM; CM; ML) in essence are story-modes, or RPGs. They shine not necassarily when the math behind transfers, wages, or player growth is realistic, but when they provide sufficient levels of immersion, drama, attachment, and emotion. PES's ML is the perfect example of this. Do ML fans wish it weren't so quirky or unrealistic at times? Of course many do. But ML has legendary status among football gaming fans because of its level of immersion and the story it tells.

In my opinion the problem in recent years with FIFA's MM and now CM - and to an extent its gameplay - is that while the focus on game development has been to get the math "right" and eliminate the most egregious offenders of realism and logic, there has been little to no, and I would argue even a regression, in the areas of immersion, emotion, etc. In recent years Rutter, Marcel, and the devs have said that these changes have been necessary to make MM/CM better simulate the footballing world, but all the while they have inadvertently been stripping away what little heart the game mode had.

Many people, for example, disliked manual growth and thought it was a good move to remove it in FIFA 10 (*cough* even though it was only an option that had no influence on your MM unless you chose to turn off auto-growth *cough*). I however saw it as a regression, but I don't think until this year's CM did I really understand why my input into player development mattered so much. It wasn't because I distrusted the math running the auto-growth feature or thought that I would develop my players more realistically (I'm certainly guilty of exploiting manual growth somewhat, exaggerating some areas of growth -speed demon anyone? - but hey, it's my game, it doesn't affect you, so piss off). No, the reason why I miss manual growth is because of the connection it helped to build between me and my players.

With manual growth I looked forward to not only micro-managing player XP allotment like I had OCD, but it gave the feeling of being along for the ride with each individual player as he evolved, and I came to be familiar with my players in ways I have not since the feature was removed - I don't "know" my players like I used to. This type of emotion, and connection to my club, has gone missing in FIFA. Surely re-establishing a soul and a greater sense of immersion to CM - and, again, gameplay - should be a, if not the, top priority.

I do not mean to imply that adding back manual growth is a cure-all fix for CM, though I do believe some user-input element would be a massive boost to CM's levels of fun and immersion (while improving how player development is displayed is critical too.). Some people like to point out that manual growth ruined 09's MM, however what was screwed-up in 09 was the speed at which players accumulated XP (which was then too slow in 10 but had been quite good in 08, arguably the best MM in recent memory). This just goes to show that while adding more user participation in CM should be a priority, the math behind the secenes cannot be totally unrealistic.

In the end, what I've realized after returning to FIFA and CM this week, is that while FIFA does many things very well it is near bereft of emotional connections. There is a sense of drama and soul that is missing from especially CM but gameplay too. When it comes to FIFA 11, ultimately I just don't give a shit. Fixing momentum, defending, collisions and other elements of gameplay is a must, but FIFA is also in dire need of some soul.

I'm not sure how to go about adding "soul" to gameplay - maybe there already is a soul to gameplay in its overly physical nature and I just wish it were different - but I do think a user-input player growth system, among other features like form, are necessary to not only better simulate the real footballing world but to just as importantly create that level of emotional connection that is sorely missing at the moment from FIFA. In the end it's not enough for my players to develop realistically, I have to care that they develop at all.

 

[Northzzz]

You know what Fifa needs? Some kind of imposed anticipation to add to the atmosphere. It's something overlooked in PES which i think works well.

Not just atmosphere as in crowd chants but more so imposing an inability to play the game at lightning speed and continue everything straight away. For example, Ball goes out of play, take throw within 1 second, penalty Kick, take penalty straight away, freekick given, take it within 2 seconds, same with corners, kickoffs and generally any deadball scenario. There's no anticipation with these moments and it really adds to the feeling that the game is too quick IMO.

Penalties especially suffer from a devoid feeling of tension/interest. For freekicks in PES you have to wait for the ref to make sure the wall is in place before blowing the whistle for you to take it. This is the kind of stuff i'm talking of even though it's cosmetic it adds something more.

I doubt this would be much interest to the more ADD of Fifa players though.

 

[kevano22]

I wish the FIFA team took all their ideas from this thread

 

[EatonTJ]

A major shortcoming of FIFA - and I'm thinking of this in terms of CM and player development but it is equally relevant to Personality+ and other aspects of player representation and performance - is the lack of an emotional attachment between you and your players. Or if there is an attachment, it is far weaker than it could and should be. I don't think any veteran of both PES and FIFA wouldn't argue that player personality/individuality as well as creating an emotional connection to the players has traditionally been a strength in PES and a relative weakness in FIFA.

...

Agree. A major part of CM is growing your team, which is an area where EA have come up short in FIFA 11. In the past it was better, but not great either. This is an area they really need to focus on.

You know what Fifa needs? Some kind of imposed anticipation to add to the atmosphere. It's something overlooked in PES which i think works well.

Not just atmosphere as in crowd chants but more so imposing an inability to play the game at lightning speed and continue everything straight away. For example, Ball goes out of play, take throw within 1 second, penalty Kick, take penalty straight away, freekick given, take it within 2 seconds, same with corners, kickoffs and generally any deadball scenario. There's no anticipation with these moments and it really adds to the feeling that the game is too quick IMO.

Penalties especially suffer from a devoid feeling of tension/interest. For freekicks in PES you have to wait for the ref to make sure the wall is in place before blowing the whistle for you to take it. This is the kind of stuff i'm talking of even though it's cosmetic it adds something more.

I doubt this would be much interest to the more ADD of Fifa players though.

I'd really prefer FIFA to do away with cutscenes entirely, I think that would add a bit more "connection" to the gameplay. As an example... For substitutions (the main cutscene culprit) I'd much rather see the game zoom out, then focus on the sideline, and then we'd see whatever players sub on and off. Instead of taking the player out of the game camera, watching a silly cutscene showing on guy bouncing up and down on the sideline (even when subbing all 3) and then returning back to the game camera where everybody has changed places.

EA made those types of changes to the goal celebrations this year (the majority celebrated in the in-game camera view) and I think that made a big improvement.

 

[romagnoli]

A lot of good points raised here - not least the impact that completely automating growth has on detaching you from your player's stats. The very fact that you would be looking at what your team's strengths and weaknesses are, on a regular basis, is something that is very impactful as far as connecting with your team is concerned. A lot is lost without that regular update, that frequent reminder of how players are equipped, let alone how they're growing or fading.

I know that we debate about whether stats should be as clinical as 1-100, or if they should be represented graphically, or if they should be 1-20 etc... I don't really mind as long as they're informative in the short term (game-by-game) and in the long term (development is spelt out), and the difference is more noticable on the pitch.

 

[nerf]

mfmaxpower: You're dead on with what you say about developing a connection with your players. I briefly mentioned something similar not long ago in the PES thread. I can often grow strangely attached and loyal to my players in Football Manager. You become invested in the game, it immerses you, and you feel like your interaction is meaningful. What is gameplay without meaningful interaction?

I think on-pitch gameplay 'soul' would come largely from player personality - when each player feels individual and you can witness out on the field the product of the growth that you've influenced. In addition to that, each match should feel somehow different to the last: in atmosphere, in expectation, in opposing strategy.

I'd really prefer FIFA to do away with cutscenes entirely, I think that would add a bit more "connection" to the gameplay. As an example... For substitutions (the main cutscene culprit) I'd much rather see the game zoom out, then focus on the sideline, and then we'd see whatever players sub on and off. Instead of taking the player out of the game camera, watching a silly cutscene showing on guy bouncing up and down on the sideline (even when subbing all 3) and then returning back to the game camera where everybody has changed places.

The key thing with substitutions is that it needs to do something while the subs are being loaded. That's why we had the horrible stadium pan in 09/10 and now the stats cut-scene in 11, so that would still have to be worked around somehow. But otherwise yes, I agree, I'd very much like the fade-outs and cut-scenes to be eliminated.

 

[Northzzz]

There needs to be cut-scenes to reset the play. My post was more so directed at having the game make you wait until the ref blows his whistle or the wall is fully lined up before you can do things so that everything doesn't feel so instantaneous and therefore unnatural.

 

[romagnoli]

I guess what we mean if nothing else is that the cutscenes should blend a little more seamlessly with the play. I agree that we need something to cover up the necessary player repositioning, but that can be done more cleverly IMO. If cutscenes are needed for loading new textures then we need them to be less obvious than they are now. There's no reason why a substitution couldn't be less intrusive, for example. The ref peeps his whistle and gestures to the touchline; the player coming off looks over, and sees his number up. The camera can then cut to a zoomed shot of him jogging off, applauding the fans or walking and shaking his head if he's not happy. This zoom in would be the cutscene, allowing the game to load up the textures of the new player.

 

[Nick Cave]

Agree fully with the cut scenes issues, these need to be relevant and unobtrusive. As rom points out, this can be easily achieved and implemented, for the last few years it seems EA have been more concerned with looking at what can be recycled from the previous games rather than evolving and improving the title.

I also like the idea of removing the instantaneousness of everything, the occasional moan at the ref or standing on the ball to delay a free kick, would do wonders for adding realism.

I'm not however, a fan of re-implementing any form of manual growth, the way of buying abilities for players in PES is also a no-no for me.
Nothing in the game of football should be a given, adding adjustable training and proper interactive coaching staff though would be a far better than the very banal way it's implemented at the moment...

 

[Gab_]

But the repositioning could surely be done by the players just running back into position? I don't agree that it is a must to flash the screen and reposition everything, I don't like it. You should be able to take throw ins pretty seamless for example. If the players are so way out of position, then there is an AI problem that should be fixed. Taking quick freekicks and throw ins are used in real life to punish the opponent for being out of position and it should be in the game I think.

I wouldn't mind a couple of badly animated ball boys throwing in a ball to the throw in taker to keep the game flowing if you like it. If you want it to reposition, then just wait 2 seconds (or whatever) and the screen flashes and everyone magically appear in perfect positions.

 

[nerf]

There needs to be cut-scenes to reset the play.

Does there really, though? Are there scenarios where the players couldn't just move into position?

Imagine the ball goes out of play behind the goal for a corner. The players begin to move into position, with their speed (walk/jog/sprint) based on how far from their destination they are. You can use this period of (at most) a few seconds to pop-up some relevant stats (e.g. number of corners, or shots on target if the keeper has just parried one around the post), and also if some sort of quick subs/quick tactics menu was implemented then this would be an ideal time to use it. It might also create that anticipation you were talking about.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any/many drawbacks to this. The quick free-kicks are already handled well, it doesn't seem like much of a leap further. Retrieval of the ball doesn't have to be complicated - would anyone care if the ball was just teleported and re-spotted at the necessary point?

 

[Northzzz]

I suppose the quick free kicks are indicative that in can work. Corners might be a bit more complex, i can imagine players running into each other in a bid to get into their logistically assigned positions to stand.

I obviously don't know about if it's something too complex for programmers to achieve, i just assumed cut-scenes were needed. It does sound like the next evolution for these games.

 

[wabak]

I guess the fact that the camera changes when you take a corner/freekick might be their reasoning for the blackscreen as it's a transition instead of just straight up switching?

Either way I agree with everything that's posted, especially about player development.. In PES this year I started a ML with Man Utd and basically used Hernandez as a sub for an entire season while he trained maurauding/one on one finish in the background, and into my second season he is currently the my top goal scorer with 19 goals half way through the season... It's a great feeling that I turned him into that as before he was very hit and miss.

 

[Lami]

After not playing football games for a while, I just started playing both PES and Fifa again. All I can say is, both are good games this year. None wins for me. Both have their positives and negatives, and I'm very much enjoying both of them atm

 

[romagnoli]

Next time you see a corner given in a football match, time how long it takes from the set piece being given and the set-piece being taken. Now try and imagine people wanting to wait this long in real life in order to be realistic, compared to just rushing up the pitch.

I don't mind quick throw-ins sometimes but I can guarantee that if they were frequently possible that online would suffer.

 

[Lami]

Anyone here know why Friedel's market value is only 50k? That's nonsense.