Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

[nerf]

How "feathering" the stick and utilizing L2 are meant to have much of an influence - and I'm personally unconvinced as to this whole "feathering" the stick thing - when other aspects of gameplay are so over-powering is beyond me. Granted I'm quite out of practice but good god the game plays too fast for me to even think about varying the directional stick pressure in situations that it might make a difference.

To my mind the important part is not stick angle, but playing with the mindset of always positioning your body between the defender and the ball. Naturally this is easier to achieve at a slower pace and by using L2/LT more often, and does require concentration on stick dexterity in tighter spaces, but it's about the approach of protecting and shielding rather than specifically thinking too much about how you operate the thumbstick.

Perhaps the most common complaint about FIFA11 has been the over aggressive physicality of defenders, and I guess one reason why I've not suffered as much from this is because I've always played this way since the demo. The demo matches were so short and so meaningless that I was not interested in trying to score/win, more to treat it almost as a game of Rondo (but with more touches).

I think I might have posted this video before, an un-spectacular dribble just to work some space:
YouTube - FIFA 11 Demo - Messi dribble
The angle of first-touch is important to escape the impending double-team, then after that it's using some LT, some analog sprint, and even maybe a touch of LT+RT skill dribble in there (which I don't use often), always just trying to keep the ball out of reach.

This video I definitely posted before when talking about the LT first-touch, but it's a good example of how the AI (even on 65 Aggression) only goes ploughing into a tackle if the ball is there to be won, but not if you're smart about putting your body between (#12 @ 0:02) :
YouTube - FIFA11 - Ireland Miss.flv

You can see how Yaya Toure holds off when Albrighton turns his back to shield, but just a moment later the merest glimpse of an attack-angle on the ball results in Toure lunging in (only on this occasion I get the pass away in time).

Fair enough, this approach might only work offline rather than against button-mashing 14 year olds who go flying in no matter what, and in no way is it a suggestion that the game's only downfall is that 'you're doing it wrong' (patently untrue), but I think it perhaps goes towards explaining why LTFC is now discovering some enjoyment and partly why the likes of myself and Ibra have not found FIFA11 as soul-crushing as some others.

 

[Nick Cave]

Let's face it, what ever we do we are trying to make the best of what can be at times some rather glaring faults from EA, of which I'm convinced most are in there to balance up the AI v Human play as that is the easiest way to achieve it.
Until EA make a concious decision to limit the AI control to that of human speed of thought and reaction, we will be having this same conversation come 2020!

 

[romagnoli]

I had some games last night, using L2 a lot. Single player's definitely more enjoyable and more fruitful when you keep control of your player like this, and it did dawn on me that this was how I was playing FIFA 10 by the end and FIFA 11 initially. But again, the fact that playing more slowly means the CPU stands off because it is making the most defensively sound choice simply isn't true because it would win the ball a lot more often if it did plough in.

I was spending much of the game standing off like the CPU and being tactical in the same way, but when I conceded a cheap goal because my defenders just wouldn't clear the ball as I repeatedly mashed, I started getting a bit more desperate. Pressure spamming was suddenly so much more effective. You'd get dribbled or Pique-spinned a couple of times but Rooney or Berbatov would still tackle a midfielder, sprint on to tackle a defender, sprint on again to tackle the last man and end up through on goal.

 

[ibra77]

I had some games last night, using L2 a lot. Single player's definitely more enjoyable and more fruitful when you keep control of your player like this, and it did dawn on me that this was how I was playing FIFA 10 by the end and FIFA 11 initially. But again, the fact that playing more slowly means the CPU stands off because it is making the most defensively sound choice simply isn't true because it would win the ball a lot more often if it did plough in.

I was spending much of the game standing off like the CPU and being tactical in the same way, but when I conceded a cheap goal because my defenders just wouldn't clear the ball as I repeatedly mashed, I started getting a bit more desperate. Pressure spamming was suddenly so much more effective. You'd get dribbled or Pique-spinned a couple of times but Rooney or Berbatov would still tackle a midfielder, sprint on to tackle a defender, sprint on again to tackle the last man and end up through on goal.

The CPU standing off is also due to teams tactics. As you know in football teams either pressure or contain as a unit - the CPU won't apply full pressure to close control untill you get to a certain part of the pitch at which point they pressure regardless. You mentioned this in an earlier post about being next to goal, but if you crank up the pressure they'll do it higher up the pitch. Are you all experimenting on exhibition matches or in career mode? In my experience there is a big difference between the two as far as CPU behaviour.

The type of experimenting some of you are doing, by the way it sounds, is what I've been doing for months. I'm at a point now where I'm experimenting with manual first touch i.e releasing the player (holding the jockey and sprint button off the ball) and moving manually to hover around the ball without touching it until the right moment.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I had some games last night, using L2 a lot. Single player's definitely more enjoyable and more fruitful when you keep control of your player like this, and it did dawn on me that this was how I was playing FIFA 10 by the end and FIFA 11 initially. But again, the fact that playing more slowly means the CPU stands off because it is making the most defensively sound choice simply isn't true because it would win the ball a lot more often if it did plough in.

I was spending much of the game standing off like the CPU and being tactical in the same way, but when I conceded a cheap goal because my defenders just wouldn't clear the ball as I repeatedly mashed, I started getting a bit more desperate. Pressure spamming was suddenly so much more effective. You'd get dribbled or Pique-spinned a couple of times but Rooney or Berbatov would still tackle a midfielder, sprint on to tackle a defender, sprint on again to tackle the last man and end up through on goal.

I think the AI still hounds you down just as much, but it holds off from the overly physical challenges purely because thre relatively basic AI routine is telling itself not to commit because you have the ball. I think it interprets 'having the ball' by the fact that you are touching it under close control, rather than in general possession and knocking it ahead of you. It's a basic system that needs fixing, but if you run quicker, your player naturally takes heavier touches ahead of himself, and the lesser control of the ball you have, the more the AI decides that it's a 50-50 ball even you you still have it, and thinks to itself "bingo, let's flatten this dude". The faster you travel, the wider your turning circle, and the AI knows that. I think this also gives it the green light to coming in and commit virtual GBH.

Ideally I agree, the AI would still just charge in every time because it's proven to be the best way of winning the ball, but doesn't purely because the AI is even more limited than that. I think it has two kind of default aggressions, one for players jogging with the ball, one of players sprinting or standard running at full speed. It either plays with aggression, or uses covering, depending on how you're playing. Mix up the two, as I now do, and it's a bit at sea sometimes. I don't think the AI is adanced enough to even think to itself "what is the best method, oh, wait, lets just hammer into them". I think EA have tried to add both methods of AI defending to look like it's adapting to your tactics, but is very very basic and needs a radical overhaul. It creates a very one dimensional 'illusion' of adaptive defending when in actual fact it's just making one out of two very basic ways of playing, all depending on how fast you move on the ball.

Oh, and I too still occasionally have games degenerate again into pub football where one guy tackles, the other guy does the same, and it all gets a bit ridiculous with the tackling, but in those instances now I'm able to, say, get the ball back to my defenders in space, slow things right down, and start again. Thinking about it, it probably is an exploit, but one that the AI at least, in it's limited terms, has a contingency plan to counteract, and at the very least that method of AI defending is far, far more enjoyable but no less challenging to play against than getting mugged by team of bionic men.

On the subject of the L2 button, I don't really use it very much at all, to be honest, only on the odd occasion when I need to do a drag back or control a particularly fast pass. I never dribble in any direction with it, I find it's actually too slow. I use it purely for momentary controlling the ball and the odd drag back/skill move. I still sprint, still move at full speed, and play quickly on the odd occasion, but when I get an opposition player on my radar, I simply move the direction stick to about 30% in the direction I'm heading. The lack of speed allows you to change direction far, far quicker, and the AI I think knows that, even if theoretically it should usilise the game's lack of balance and smash into me at 100mph....

It's a shame people don't seem to find slower movements make any difference. Like I said, I only see it when up against a defender, and mostly the pass maintains the speed of an attacking move more than any player can.

Does jogging rather than running seriously not give others more space to do something without the crazy AI tackling? The stab tackle is still well in force, but at slower speeds that results in winning a free kick far more often than I'd win before, and like nerf says, you have far more ability to change direction and avoid the player before the tackle comes in. Before, running at full speed simply closed down the space between you and the defender to a much greater degree, and it's those micro seconds that seem to really make the difference for me.

Just wish I could defend headers from crosses. I still can't, and have no idea why......

 

[Shearer_God]

Just wish I could defend headers from crosses. I still can't, and have no idea why......

Same. I think it's the way the AI scores against me 9 times out of 10. Some of the crosses are ridiculously accurate which doesn't help.

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Have hardly conceded headers tbh (WC level).

 

[mfmaxpower]

To my mind the important part is not stick angle, but playing with the mindset of always positioning your body between the defender and the ball. Naturally this is easier to achieve at a slower pace and by using L2/LT more often, and does require concentration on stick dexterity in tighter spaces, but it's about the approach of protecting and shielding rather than specifically thinking too much about how you operate the thumbstick.

Perhaps the most common complaint about FIFA11 has been the over aggressive physicality of defenders, and I guess one reason why I've not suffered as much from this is because I've always played this way since the demo. The demo matches were so short and so meaningless that I was not interested in trying to score/win, more to treat it almost as a game of Rondo (but with more touches).

I think I might have posted this video before, an un-spectacular dribble just to work some space:
YouTube - FIFA 11 Demo - Messi dribble
The angle of first-touch is important to escape the impending double-team, then after that it's using some LT, some analog sprint, and even maybe a touch of LT+RT skill dribble in there (which I don't use often), always just trying to keep the ball out of reach.

This video I definitely posted before when talking about the LT first-touch, but it's a good example of how the AI (even on 65 Aggression) only goes ploughing into a tackle if the ball is there to be won, but not if you're smart about putting your body between (#12 @ 0:02) :
YouTube - FIFA11 - Ireland Miss.flv

You can see how Yaya Toure holds off when Albrighton turns his back to shield, but just a moment later the merest glimpse of an attack-angle on the ball results in Toure lunging in (only on this occasion I get the pass away in time).

Fair enough, this approach might only work offline rather than against button-mashing 14 year olds who go flying in no matter what, and in no way is it a suggestion that the game's only downfall is that 'you're doing it wrong' (patently untrue), but I think it perhaps goes towards explaining why LTFC is now discovering some enjoyment and partly why the likes of myself and Ibra have not found FIFA11 as soul-crushing as some others.

Good stuff. I think if I continue messing around with FIFA 11 i'll concentrate more on the type of strategies you've mentioned, rather than varying dribbling speeds - I'm just not seeing the influence of my speed on defensive aggressiveness that LTFC sees. Maybe I'm thinking too much of something like the PES dribbling bug that when first released allowed players to dribble unchallenged as long as they didn't sprint.

It could be that what LTFC is seeing is a much more subtle influence, but for me that's an issue: subtly tends to get lost and swept aside in FIFA. A lot of that is simply because of the speed of FIFA's gameplay - at first FIFA 11's pace of play seemed much improved if not spot on, but then coming back to FIFA from a break of soley playing PES 2011 I was blown away by the frantic speed of FIFA. FIFA's slow setting is like PES's +2!

I've previoulsy disliked how certain critics of FIFA felt it necessary to constantly compare FIFA to NHL, but as someone who grew up loving the NHL series, for the first time I can say that I understand the comparison this year. After playing PES for a while, FIFA's similarities with NHL - e.g. frantic pace of play, physicality, player movements - are especially pronounced. Anyone who knows the sport of hockey well enough can see that the "spirit" of that sport is well represented in FIFA. The problem is that which makes hockey such an exhilarating sport does not make FIFA an authentic or satisfying experience.

So like when playing hockey, in which a puck-handler must constantly be on the look-out for where the next body-check will come, and when puck possession is a back-in-forth, frantic affair, FIFA 11 promotes a more school-yard version of football, in which chaos reigns and there is little time or benefit for more thoughtful play. Skill on the ball is superseded by quick exchanges of tackles - the only thing FIFA lacks is the ability to throw down the gloves and brawl after an especially nasty body check!

That may be an overly-whiney way of looking at FIFA, and I can see how I may sound like a grumpy old man - "er, the speed is just too darn fast dammit" - but I do believe there is truth in that the differences in pace of gameplay in PES and FIFA largely accounts for why FIFA can feel so unlike football at times. Playing FIFA in a more slower, thoughtful, and skillful style is to swim against a heavy current. It can be done, but it does not seem to be the way FIFA has been designed to play.

I guess after all that I'm saying that Nick is right: these vids from LTFC and nerf show how to make the best of the hand dealt us by EA this year but they do not represent the strengths of FIFA much less its character. And, I think what Rom has been alluding to, as a football gaming vet of some twenty years or so, I shouldn't be having to try so hard to make FIFA play more like the real thing.

Same. I think it's the way the AI scores against me 9 times out of 10. Some of the crosses are ridiculously accurate which doesn't help.

My frustrations with the over-effectiveness of the defensive side of the game - for both the AI and human player - is just about matched by my disappointment with the under-effectiveness of the AI's offensive ability and intellect, with the exception of headers. It's another way the game is unbalanced: the AI rarely gains greater than 35 percent of possession, will rarely put together a series of intelligent play, poorly values ball possession, was not programmed with the ability to stop, survey the pitch, and make a pass backwards, and will repeatedly miss the target from only a couple yards out... but in the end will eke out a win by scoring a goal from a header that is completely against the run of play. And don't say it's the CPU playing counter-attacking football because it's not, and saying that the AI actually has a strategy is being far too flattering.

So yeah, would really love to see the offensive AI get a massive upgrade - I'd love to be forced into playing WC because I can't handle the AI's skill of play rather than just it's quicker reaction times and improved "dice rolls" in the CPU's favor.

 

[ibra77]

A lot of that is simply because of the speed of FIFA's gameplay - at first FIFA 11's pace of play seemed much improved if not spot on, but then coming back to FIFA from a break of soley playing PES 2011 I was blown away by the frantic speed of FIFA. FIFA's slow setting is like PES's +2!

It's no doubt a matter of becoming accustomed to the pace and it's only a matter of time. I played on fast speed for some time. Although I enjoyed the gameplay on Fast the reaction times in some situations were too much to put up with, went back down to normal and it feel like I have ages on the ball.

 

[ibra77]

The objective of how you are playing at the moment with this learning how to use the slow dribble to not be pressured is not to find out how best to succeed at playing football with your team against others. It's how best to manipulate the AI to not play in the way it usually does and in the way people play online. In essence you are trying to exploit the offline game in the way people will spam aerial through balls this year or lobs last year. The difference is you are exploiting the game for sim purposes, whereas others are exploiting it to win.

For all that talk of not being able to watch the animations and make decisions based on it - in all honesty that's exactly what I do. I've trained my eye to recognize what the AI is trying to do and it's not always the same. For example if you’re on the wings the AI doesn't always decide to push you wide. Sometimes, perhaps depending on the position it's teammates as well as your movements, it blocks wide and gives you more room to cut in. It's very difficult to see on the Tele Camera but if you play the game long enough you'll pick up on it. I haven't found a consistent pattern by which to exploit the CPU, I literally watch the movements but it took me a long, long time to be able to do it successfully. There are ways to deceive the AI of course, but that is not unrealistic – especially as it doesn’t always work.

 

[romagnoli]

I actually zoomed the camera in quite a lot to try and improve my ability to react and judge the space I'm trying to move into. It definitely helps, though finding the right balance between that and being able to see the pitch is another matter.

 

[ibra77]

balance between that and being able to see the pitch is another matter.

That's the beauty of it, players in real life have to do the same. They can't see the whole pitch. You've got to do things like

- look before you receive the pass
- spot openings, concieve a plot
- decide whether there's enough time to turn and face goal or keep the ball moving
-imagine what that particular player would do in real life
- particularly for CM's and in crossing positions, be able to safely control the player while the ball possessor is in my peripheral - while looking elsewhere around the pitch. I can do quite a bit of instinctive dribbling and even getting past defenders around the half line (CM terriotry) without actually looking dirctly at my player except for a quick glance.

The balance between preconcieved moves and improvisation is also a fine one.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I find broadcast, full zoom and mid height is perfect - it looks realistic, is fairly close to the players (players on the far side of the pitch excepted) and you can still see lots of the pitch. Don't know why, it's probably my imagination, but the game somehow feels slower on broadcast. It's not, but the illusion is there I think because the camera's not constantly flying left and right to keep up with the play.

 

[lancers]

I find broadcast, full zoom and mid height is perfect - it looks realistic, is fairly close to the players (players on the far side of the pitch excepted) and you can still see lots of the pitch. Don't know why, it's probably my imagination, but the game somehow feels slower on broadcast. It's not, but the illusion is there I think because the camera's not constantly flying left and right to keep up with the play.

Actually co-op lowest camera height full zoom looks good too but I find the graphics are best with dynamic camera highest camera and lowest zoom.
The game does give the illusion of having more time and space on the panned out settings but the beauty of the graphics is lost.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Well all the stuff I posted is probably bullshit, so sorry for wasting people's time.....

I played a couple of friendlies on World Class. One, Man Utd v Tottenham. I played some awesome football, managed to keep the ball and won the game 1-0 when it should have been more. My new way of playing was so fun to play.

Next, I decided to continue my CM that I'd abandoned since before Christmas. By coincidence, it was again Man Utd v Tottenham. After 5 minutes Dawson fouls me and the AI is down to 10 men. What follows, is the biggest amount of bullshit I've ever seen in a game. The AI decided 'lets win this game' and everything I'd described went straight out the window.

Travelling slower on the ball did nothing. The AI, for the first time since I've stated playing differently, ignored the fact that I was, say, shielding the ball, and just railroaded straight through the back of me. Every. Single. Time. One particular gem showing the game's 'personality plus' was how the massive Rio Ferdinand had the ball at his feet, under control, travelling at a snail's pace, and Modric, possibly the smallest player on the pitch at the time, sprinted 'through' Ferdinand's body with no hesitation, no sense of timing, not even a tackle. It was as if he was running onto a loose ball, Ferdinand went flying to the ground and that renouned football hardman Modric ran off with the ball. Brilliant. This sort of thing continued for the entire 90 minutes. For some reason simple 10 yard passes along the ground, unchallenged, were going 15 yards wide of their target and homed in on an AI player.

I'm completely calling out FIFA11 as bullshit now. You can't have the game play a certain way in friendlies, then create this fucking awful sense of invincible AI tackling when you play in a competitive game mode. Seriously, I took a 3-0 drubbing and had ZERO shots on goal. I couldn't even string ONE pass together because every single Man Utd player was tightly marked, and the usual way I play of travelling slowly to shield the ball, and even dribble, was impossible. Before you'd even receive a pass, the AI would be ramming itself through the back of you and knocking you to the floor. There was absolutely zero scope to play anything resembling football. Seriously, no tactic could have worked on this occasion, because almost every time I was lucky enough to retain possession for more than 5 seconds, the AI just ran into me and knocked me to the floor, even if I had the player between the AI and the ball. And all this against 10 men.

How can playing friendly matches allow you to, say, fend off tackles with a big target man in a realistic manner, which really shows off the attributes personality plus is designed to show, yet a competitive match vs the AI sees the same target man being flattened by a player half his size, before he's even managed to receive the pass? It's utterly pathetic AI trying to 'simulate' added difficulty.

I mean seriously, how often in real life do you see Defoe going into a shoulder charge with Vidic and absolutely flattening him to the floor? Defoe just stood there like he was made of cement or something.

Complete and utter toss.

 

[nerf]

Are you bi-polar, LTFC?

I haven't really noticed any difference between exhibition and career mode. Maybe I'm not perceptive enough. Logically I'm not sure why there would be a difference.

 

[romagnoli]

What about with 10 men Nerf?

This is what I was saying about how the close control is only working because the AI is letting it work. For some reason that changed here and the AI chose to go for the ball in the way people do online, and the whole thing collapses.

What I meant by this LT was not that the game should be designed so that the AI plays according to what is most effective (as you interpreted it); but that pressuring the ball and standing off should be more equally balanced, and the same goes for what the CPU and what a human is capable of (within reason).

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I think I agree with you on that now. From my experience today, the AI in a competitive game mode just comes in and takes the ball regardless of whether you shield it. Despite all those vids I posted of me dribbling past defenders, CM matches resulted in me failing to beat the defender 99% of the time. If I managed to, the AI would foul me.

The difference I found today between friendlies and CM seems to be that the game takes an ultra aggressive approach. Tiny players can easily barge your strapping 6ft defenders with ease, which renders the whole shielding tecnique that I'd just been learning completely and utterly useless.

Wow the CM really has ruined this game. Not only does the game mode not even work as it should, but it seems to make the AI ludicrously frustrating at the same time!

 

[romagnoli]

Have you tried continuing the CM and playing the matches as friendlies concurrently, just to make sure it wasn't a one-off?

 

[drekkard]

I always knew CPU had a kind of boost in competitive modes over friendlies, which totally sucks in my oppinion. And the better your are in the table, the harder it gets, like old-school PES. Then the Cup, where any team can get ultra-aggressive, no matter who you face. If you manage to play the CL final against Peterborough, they will be as good as Milan suddenly. Well, not as good, but almost! Teams receive an insane boost. That's how it's done. And playing against 10 men is absolute bullshit, worst scenario in the game, probably. CPU gets an incredible boost to balance things. I never understood why the hell they put things like that in a game, just to irritate people?

It happens in practically all sports games, though. Even in NBA 2k11, the best sports game ever made, in certain situations the CPU can nail 4 consecutive 3 pointers just to tie the game no matter what, and the rubberband effect is notorious. The difference is that 2k develops an incredibly deep gameplay and you have sliders, so you can adjust the game to be fair.

So, playing slow and using LT and all this is great only in certain conditions, when it should be in the CORE of the game design. And statistics should be the absolute focus in development, not a layer put above as it is now.

 

[mfmaxpower]

I'm not saying you guys are wrong but I'm dumbfounded as to why the AI would play different depending upon the game mode. The AI should be playing what the difficulty level and its team tactics dictate - a level 40 aggression in team tactics should not equal 60 in CM.

Ideally teams would adjust their game strategies based on the match in CM, so in theory I can understand why CM would/should play differently from friendlies, but to my knowledge EA has never officially indicated this type of strategic and tactical variety is included in the game.

I go through various "phases" with FIFA, so I'm just wondering if we're creating a more complicated answer here. Again, I'm not saying anyone is flat out wrong, rather I'm just playing devil's advocate here. After all, what LTFC has most recently described is the type of gameplay Rom, myself, and others believe to be the rule rather than the exception in fifa 11.

 

[ibra77]

I've said here recently that there is a difference between exhibition and Career mode - in my opinion it's fairly clear.CM seems tp increase AI pressure and aggression. Exhibition matches are like friendlies, not as competitive as league games. The way it should be. It's not a matter of cheating or boosts. Cup matches are even more intense, again as they should be. LTFC you really don't take losing to well do you. Im sure several people can testify to racking up plenty of wins on CM and scoring plenty of goals.

Heres an example (legendary CM) off a small player holding of one player yet keeping the ball close enough not to run in to the second defender.

YouTube - Youngclosecontrolprotection

 

[ibra77]

You can see Carroll using his arm to hold off players through this clip. The main thing is the constant change of pace that isn't really visible unless you look closely. Some of the touches are obviously different from the one before it, other's are more subtle but they still make a difference because they throw the defender off from a predictable next touch - hence the defender is more reluctant to commit to a tackle. I'm constantly varying my touches tapping sprint, left stick, and close control. This is as simply as it gets yet it's still effective...

YouTube - Carrolchangeofspeed

 

[romagnoli]

Exhibition mode and career mode should in no way be different. The logic makes sense on the surface, but is not applicable to this situation. One-off matches in a football game are meant to be a context-free match between one side and another, playing to win. Trying to relate a friendly match to it is flawed because a friendly is a warm-up game intended to prepare the squad for a competitive season.

A preseason friendly in Career mode could plausibly be given relaxed AI, though it would have to be far more relaxed than you see in exhibition mode now.

These videos, as informative as they often are, do start to feel equivalent to scouting Ricardo Quaresma by watching youtube.

 

[ibra77]

My opinion is that proper movement, close control or not, is absolutely effective in every game "condition". A lack of effectiveness is either due to the users technique or to poor tactics/approach. Not every game is the same, if you pick up and play then their will be games in which you will feel hopeless, but that is because no adjustments in style of play or tactics were made.

The way to test this is simple. I'm sure everyone has a back up file to their CM, play a CM game two, three or four times in a row. Use the same tactics and approach at least twice, you'll see the same type of game pan out in those two games. The game in which you use a different approach (style of play, mentality, formation, etc.) you will see a different result for better or worse according to your adjustments. This is assuming the same level of concentration and effort is given in each game and that the gameplan is executed at least in a general sense.

 

[ibra77]

These videos, as informative as they often are, do start to feel equivalent to scouting Ricardo Quaresma by watching youtube.

I understand how limited the videos are, but it's the best I've got unless I decide to rewind a whole game and upload segment by segment to the EA website.

They don't say much, I agree.

 

[ibra77]

A preseason friendly in Career mode could plausibly be given relaxed AI, though it would have to be far more relaxed than you see in exhibition mode now.

That's completely subjective. for me exhibition match on legendary is a walk in the park. I actually started compiling a string of videos to compare exhibition to CM but never got a around to finishing. Here is about 30 seconds of exhibition play, I can't see how a game could be any slower paced and relaxed then in this video. The score was 0-0 at this point so the CPU haven't shut up shop.

YouTube - exhibitionpace

I disagree with you about the one-off matches also. Teams play to win but simply not as competetive. Man U lost to philadelphia Union this summer playing with cleverly, obertan, macheda, diouf. Teams often play a lot of their reserves in exhibition matches. In general, exhibition matches are never as competetive as offical matches that fall into a context.

 

[PLF]

These videos, as informative as they often are, do start to feel equivalent to scouting Ricardo Quaresma by watching youtube.

Sorry don't mean to interrupt this discussion and am not taking any sides as I don't have my mind made up on this stuff but I just had to quote this bit because I find it brilliant. It made me laugh my ass off!

 

[romagnoli]

That's completely subjective. for me exhibition match on legendary is a walk in the park. I actually started compiling a string of videos to compare exhibition to CM but never got a around to finishing. Here is about 30 seconds of exhibition play, I can't see how a game could be any slower paced and relaxed then in this video. The score was 0-0 at this point so the CPU haven't shut up shop.

YouTube - exhibitionpace

That's you with the ball, not really trying to advance. You are playing slowly and unadventurously. The CPU, whichever team it is they are controlling (I'm on my phone) is doing what it's told when you aren't trying to advance with the ball or present any kind of challenge and are moving the ball before it can approach. The CPU will not pass the ball around like that and will play with much the same tempo.

I disagree with you about the one-off matches also. Teams play to win but simply not as competetive. Man U lost to philadelphia Union this summer playing with cleverly, obertan, macheda, diouf. Teams often play a lot of their reserves in exhibition matches. In general, exhibition matches are never as competetive as offical matches that fall into a context.

Of course they dont play to lose! I didnt think that was what I'd said?

Again, you're missing the context. Utd won 1-0, I streamed the match. Obertan scored against Philadelphia's sub keeper. Philadelphia were midseason and were match fit and up for beating a top European side; Utd were on a tour deliberately picked for the humid conditions to get them back into fitness after the summer break. It was a close match and PU were up for it for the morale boost it'd provide but Utd were nowhere near first gear. We did lose against someone, Kansas I think? But we were much more concerned with making sure people got a good run out so they'd burn off some weight. Hence the substitutions we made were not tactically motivated.

Not sure how this ties in to my point about one-off matches though. You cannot take any real analogy of a one off match because there is no such thing in modern football. The point of a one-off football match in exhibition mode is that it is essentially set in a parallel universe that starts and ends with the first and final whistles. The competition is winning that match because that's all there is - not that the CPU will ever think of it as philosophically as that.

 

[EatonTJ]

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How can playing friendly matches allow you to, say, fend off tackles with a big target man in a realistic manner, which really shows off the attributes personality plus is designed to show, yet a competitive match vs the AI sees the same target man being flattened by a player half his size, before he's even managed to receive the pass? It's utterly pathetic AI trying to 'simulate' added difficulty.

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I don't think I've played more than a handful of exhibition matches against the CPU, but I've played several hundred CM matches against the CPU so I can't really comment on the CPU playing differently (easier) in exhibition vs career mode.

What I can say, is that in my hundreds of CM matches, regardless of the match's importance, I've been able to use close control dribbling and a player's power and pace just the same without being "cheated" in any fashion by the CPU.

Also, in terms of the Xbox live effectiveness of close control dribbling vs. pressing I decided to play a few online games today. Now I assume because I've hardly touched the mode, I'm not playing against skilled veterans (I assume that's how the ranked online works?) but against the players I went up against I completely dominated them. The first 2 I played against quit before half-time being down 5-0 and 6-0 and the last I played against lost 4-0 (although he was the Chicago Fire, and put up a good fight). Without using any skill moves I was able to dribbling around all over the place. If anything, playing online was far easier than playing the CPU, these online opponents were far too rash in their tackling and pressing. I'm pretty sure they were pressing me the entire game, and I'd just pass around the pressure until I drew them out of position, then run a quick 1-2 and off I'd be on an easy break to walk the ball into the net.

While pressing may be super easy to perform (just hold down 1 button) in comparison to learning how to dribble properly (actually takes real football knowledge and good hand-eye coordination) I certainly don't think it is somehow overpowered. I think you guys are all way over-reacting to the quality of the CPU defense and probably to the random XBox live guy's defense as well (although I admit a small sample size).

Obviously, learning defense in FIFA is easier than learning offense because the game does most of the work for you (organizing the other 10 players) defensively, while on offense you make a lot more of the decisions yourself. Every pass, every attempted dribble is always made by the player... and that's where most people turn over the ball. So really, if you find yourself losing possession to defenders a lot in this game, it is far more likely it was your fault for making a bad decision than it is the defender's fault for "cheating" you.