Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
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Ԁlɐɔǝqo
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
I'd agree that the gameplay can be great, and when it's great it can be jaw-droppingly great, but I'm finding it hard to call it a "great game" when there's so many damn bugs. I've already had one CM career completely crash while I think my current Lincoln City career is haunted by the ghost of FIFA 10 MM!
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
I'll probably curse myself now but I'm about 40 games in (League 1 is a looong season) and not had any problems at all.
daikirai
statement™
- 3 November 2003
Well I restarted my VP/Game after the loss, 12% VP now...
Thinking of doing a player-manager CM this time. But not sure who to go with, any suggestions.
Thinking of doing a player-manager CM this time. But not sure who to go with, any suggestions.
brunnoce
World Cup Winner
Same here, just finnished my 1st Russian Premier League season with Lokomotiv, absolutly loving it!
Finnished 2nd behind Zenit though... Anyway CL here i come!
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
That's amazing, I honestly expected you to already have a bug list going on the official forums by now, though after last year Marcel probably sent you a pre-tested copy or something!
Judging from the various bugs being reported I had been wondering whether this year's is even more bug-fested than last, although thankfully nothing has cropped-up like the budget deficit bug. On the other hand, I just read about someone finding an unlimited transfer budget glitch!
So no issues with player growth even? I'm trying to find the logic in the system this year but at the moment I can't tell if it's bugged or just quirky - I've got young players with high potential on +1 and others on -1. Meanwhile I have an incompetent staff because they're sending me emails telling me one thing while the player growth screen says another. Maybe that's what I get for playing in the 4th tier of English football!
The good news at least is that you would think everything being reported so far can be fixed, and despite the various instances of crashes going around, I haven't heard yet of any real career enders like the budget glitch last year. I'd like to think that since Marcel started over this year with new code their won't be anything so wrong it can't get fixed with a game update.
quiet_riot
Welcome To Manchester
I hate how slow this game is when it comes to saving and viewing replays.
I'm sure in Pro Evo's of old you could save, view and delete a replay within a matter of seconds, in FIFA 11 it takes a bloody age!
I'm sure in Pro Evo's of old you could save, view and delete a replay within a matter of seconds, in FIFA 11 it takes a bloody age!
Imho, Fifa 09, 10, and 11 have nothing on Fifa 08. I've finally got my hands on a copy of Fifa 08 and now I know why I had very good memories of it. Enjoying it to bits atm. It's like a new game to me.
It ain't perfect by any means, and many on here know its flaws, but tbh its gameplay is far superior than the rest.
It ain't perfect by any means, and many on here know its flaws, but tbh its gameplay is far superior than the rest.
BobbyBox
WING NUT!
- 10 October 2003
- Arsenal
I used to love fifa 08. But after playing it for months, something just clicked and the response times just drove me made! I remember at one point getting so frustrated I bit the control pad and threw it across the room....it's a dark place I don't want to go back to
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
I know what you mean though I can't go back to non-360 degree dribbling. For its time, def the best FIFA and my favorite. And the thing that really does it for me is it had the best MM of the recent editions.
Didn't I read somewhere that 08 was the last edition released by the previous dev crew and Rutter's first game was 09?
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Fundamentals, simple!
First touches and turning speeds are everything almost in football games! I just found this out now!
Back then I had the same feelings, but after playing PES 2010, Fifa 10, PES 2011, and Fifa 11 I'm appreciating Fifa 08 even more now. Not having response issues at all now. Maybe I did back then because I came from PES 6 and PES 2008, and they were ultra responsive. But now it's a different case for me.I used to love fifa 08. But after playing it for months, something just clicked and the response times just drove me made! I remember at one point getting so frustrated I bit the control pad and threw it across the room....it's a dark place I don't want to go back to
It's just beautiful. None of this dancing-jockeying and skiing stuff. Imo ofcourse.
Yea Max, Joe Booth got the boot after Fifa 08. EA probably noticed he was trying to cater for sim fans. I hope he makes a return.
embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
EA: FIFA 11 beats FIFA 10 to become 'fastest selling sports game ever'
..EA: FIFA 11 beats FIFA 10 to become 'fastest selling sports game
Besting FIFA 10's achievement last year, FIFA 11 has now become the "fastest selling sports game ever," according to EA. The publisher's internal estimates project the latest entry in the footie franchise has sold 2.6 million copies across Europe and North America since last week's launch.
EA estimates that FIFA 11 has grossed more than $150 million at retail so far, with "sell through" determined to be up 29 percent over last year's iteration. The publisher wouldn't break down regional numbers when we asked, but we did learn earlier this week from Chart-Track's UK retail charts that FIFA 11 had the third largest "combined format" debut of any game ever.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/05/ea-fifa-11-beats-fifa-10-to-become-fastest-selling-sports-game/
..EA: FIFA 11 beats FIFA 10 to become 'fastest selling sports game
Besting FIFA 10's achievement last year, FIFA 11 has now become the "fastest selling sports game ever," according to EA. The publisher's internal estimates project the latest entry in the footie franchise has sold 2.6 million copies across Europe and North America since last week's launch.
EA estimates that FIFA 11 has grossed more than $150 million at retail so far, with "sell through" determined to be up 29 percent over last year's iteration. The publisher wouldn't break down regional numbers when we asked, but we did learn earlier this week from Chart-Track's UK retail charts that FIFA 11 had the third largest "combined format" debut of any game ever.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/10/05/ea-fifa-11-beats-fifa-10-to-become-fastest-selling-sports-game/
OPM
...
- 2 June 2003
- .
quick question i always wondered but never asked (and never played the game to that stage)
if you get promoted from the championship to the premier league, do your kit badges and backnumbers change or not? that's something konami is doing for years now and i can't recall seeing in FIFA (different badges for different leagues etc.)
if you get promoted from the championship to the premier league, do your kit badges and backnumbers change or not? that's something konami is doing for years now and i can't recall seeing in FIFA (different badges for different leagues etc.)
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Also aimed at max this post!
It's you who questioned EA's direction they are pushing fifa in.
For me i've noticed this heavily! They are simply trying to make FIFA challenge Call of Duty in terms of being the 'biggest' and most played game for casuals!
Form what I'm seeing they are doing a good job in this respect with the sales figures. The game is made to be addictive! No in the way the old school PES games was, more in the whole package, presentation, easy fluid controls and ESPECIALLY ONLINE!!
What strikes me is the amount of PES6 players leaving to play FIFA 11 on PC (NOT PES5, PES6 very different games) what strikes me is FIFA 10/11 are very much based on this game, they don't have the tactical depth of PES6 but it certainly has better animations! Basically FIFA 11 is a dubbed down PES 6 with silly silver smooth animations, which on the whole aren't realistic tbh. Far FAR too over the top,and acrobat like!
I didn't realize that PES 2011 animations are actually a lot more true to like than FIFA's! It just hit me watching the highlights of Germany vs Belgium! Those 'clunky' movements are the exact same movements the German and Belgian players were making, even some animations on PES 2011 i though were just robotic. There not! FIFA's animations just LOOK better, they aren't actually more realistic! Just optically more aesthetically pleasing! (excluding only the goalkeeper dive animations where FIFA's does look realistic and PES's look shit
)The philosophy of FIFA 08 is dead! instead the boardroom hated it how Call of Duty was the number one game and they want to beat it! It's about milking as much out of this cash cow as possible. I'm not at the stage where it's not even a debate anymore which is realistic out of PES and FIFA! PES just laughs at FIFA in terms of simulation!
The game has changed. it's not about what game is more realistic or more of a sim! It's about how you sell the product and market it. It's about how playable the game is in terms of fluidness. That's what makes you money! EA talk too much bull about being better than PES, I don't think EA really care much about PES, they just want their game to sell, make a profit and beat their rivals at activision!
Mos Def/Lupe Fiasco are far better rappers than that poof Lil Wayne but who's marketed better?
My reasons for this post is!
1. I find this interesting (i love debate) to talk about how political FIFA/EA clearly are. How the boardroom clearly run the show and are adamant they want an accessible game for everyone!
2. Sorry i REALLY isn't a debate anymore about which is more of a sim. FIFA 11 dosen't play like football on any mode or controls. It's best played on manual, because you feel as if your working to score goals, which is fantastic, but even on that you still don't play proper football. You can't play proper football without the basic fundamentals, that's why Lami likes FIFA 08 still, like me, it had those fundamentals you need for a sim!
Doesn't matter what stat edits you make or not using the charge button. If ever player magnetically controls the ball perfectly pretty much 95% of the time and players turn at lighting speeds no matter their attributes. it's never going to be a sim!
This is almost like a closing post for me on the FIFA vs PES debate. I've stopped getting worked up about FIFA not being realistic, i've found my peace with the game
! Firstly because i feel my observation about 'EA vs Activision' is what makes the game what it is! When i get some more money (otherwise know as student loan 
but i do have a job now ) I'll buy it second hand mainly for online clubs/VP etc.. The game clearly fun and has playability. Like with the the world cup game. Play the game how it WANTS you to play it (fast, attacking, shooting from angles). Try and score crazy goals! Try and beat Barca online with Morecombe that what FIFA is about!
Another reason why i don't hate FIFA anymore is that we don't need it to be a simulation anymore! If you want a sim, PES is there! It's not an acquired taste. It's just takes time! Anyway.
Finally since i will get this game, what the club that everyone plays for here on Evo Web, i mean, i might just join my friends one but are there any with full manual etc?
I had to stop reading at this point. Mate seriously anyone with eyes would realise animations in PES are fucking shite.
Apart from the unrealistic 'clunky' animations while in control of the ball the rest of the animations are shit too. The passing animations (at times) look very unrealistic, basically if you kicked the ball IRL in the way you can in PES the ball wouldn't even reach it's target half the time. The shooting animations don't get much better, again IRL if you kicked the ball the way you can in PES (no backlift from 30 yards out)the ball wouldn't reach the goal but in PES they fly into the top corner. Looks totally unrealistic.
*Continues reading your post* PES is a sim!
A simulation of what exactly? Shit animations, manual passing not implemented correctly, very limited freedom in movement, shit goalkeepers...the list goes on. How can it be even close to a simulation of football when you can't aim where you want to pass and shoot and you can only move in limited directions? You're dreaming fella.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Can i just point out people i wanted to either continue the discussion on EA's politics and Find a good manual FIFA club, not gt dragged into an argument, thank you
PES animations look shite? Well yes! Only when compared to fifa in terms of just aesthetics since like i said: FIFA makes every animation look like silky smooth and sexy where as PES actually tired to simulate a football player. FIFA looks far better on the face of it in terms of just looking 'nicer' and pleasing on the eye, rather than being realistic.
Like i said with Germany vs Belgium (just a random match that happened to be on Eurosport) Watch Badstuber run, is it silky smooth, flowing like he's running on water like FIFA? No! It's a blunt, workman like marauder, just like in PES! Also with Ozil, does he go from also 0-60 as if he's in a Ferrari like in FIFA? No! Again, bursts of acceleration and close control like in PES.
Just ask Shorty_Alien and Honome who i used play play full manual matches on FIFA 09, dribbling is my biggest strong point in football games! I knew, every trick, combination, whatever, i always test it to the max, i did this in both demo. FIFA dribbling system is the old on rails system while PES have reached new heights.
Like i said, just watch a variety of matches all over the world, Brazil, France, Italy, Japan, USA, where ever, i bet on football and use Bet365, etc.. so i watch big variety, i remember a few Saturdays ago EVERY SINGLE MATCH, what ever league it was i watched that day reminded me of the pes demo! Stuff like variance of first touches, momentum of how player, speed up and slow down, dribbling especially, basic fundamentals! That what it's all about.
You just seem like one of those who only watches English football, watches a lot of match of the day, highlights etc.. Probably explains why you like FIFA so much! Also this really close camera you use? Seriously? football is a team game, you should be able to see a good part of the pitch so you can see your teammates and work space!
Really?
YouTube - PES 2011 Demo Dribbling!
Don't see any problems there. I trust your able to do this on PES 2011? Am i wrong?
No, there very good and contextual, animations are subtle, it's not overblown, sexed up and crazy.
Sorry but now you losing credibility here. Your saying all players do shots like Ronaldinho vs chelsea and the go easily in the top corner! If your going to give a rounded observation, don't come here talking as if you played the game for 5 minutes then ran off because you couldn't play it!
Sorry but now i have to use the term fanboy here now, Manual passing not implemented properly? Talk about someone who know nothing about PES 2011! I can put the ball ANYWHERE i want with the manual pass on PES relative to my players, body position, momentum, stats etc.. other factors but i have far more control over manual on PES than FIFA,
romannogil knows this game inside out, he told he about the under-weighted passes on FIFA 11, and with manual it just crazy! Funny how this game limits you so you can't play long ground passes because of no zip? Your seriously saying that it's better than PES 2011 which allows you the freedom to even play extremely delicate passes, which not every my great friend over the years (Manual through balls since 08 ) can achieve!
Finally what i find most impressive is how on PES is that the manual passing isn't a chore or a constant annoyance on FIFA! With PES you have to really pick that final ball, leaving it to the semi default control won't guarantee nothing unless he's in loads of space! Because of how defenders compress the space it's hard to pick that ball, On FIFA manual, final balls aren't hard at all, infact there simple (defense AI very predictable) It's the putting passes together with the AI up you behind which is the challenge. Challenging it is certainly, but a realistic and balanced it's not in any way!
See video above
Animations are shit yes, i agree, bugs every now and again but they aren't really an issue, they can put in amazing performances though! Romero made some Gordon Banks like saves vs me!
Errm no, there isn't a huge list of game breaking issue, even the big issue of the green zone is pretty much eradicated on player int he full game! There si a huge room for improvement yes, but it's the best football game i've played
Sorry but if you think anyone should take your opinions seriously then be fair and objective when approaching both games. Try to make it should like your not just a biased fanboy following the crowd and saying PES is rubbish because if makes you feel better! Give credit to where the game deserves it.
Even me, who's been a harsh critic of FIFA 11 (not anymore) Has still praised the Goalkeeping animations (even int he system the run on is unrealistic, they are too agile and don't adhere to weight transfer, foot placement etc..)
Transitional animations (in terms of how the rabona, tricks, some animation do look very, very good!
Faces and presentation is very impressive.
I said myself i know what people see and love in this game. Your just spouting off endless shit, and won't even give PES a proper go. Sorry you views are absolutely terrible! You have just shown yourself to be biased!
I mean you come on here with you 'This game is the most realistic game ever' Yet you ALREADY! Creating rules such as playing without using the pressure button until the AI gets in the final 3rd? Also on full manual on world class vs the inch perfect cyborg like AI who rarely if ever miss a pas vs you working making it hard for yourself since the AI is so basic. Finally our tweaking custom tactics to try to get them to play in a 'realistic fashion' or just playing with reduced pressure, since the game is all about pressure!
I have PES 2011, and I don't need to bother with any of this and the game play exactly like football, i don't need to tweak the CPU's formations to make them play differently and surprise me, they do that by programming!
PES animations look shite? Well yes! Only when compared to fifa in terms of just aesthetics since like i said: FIFA makes every animation look like silky smooth and sexy where as PES actually tired to simulate a football player. FIFA looks far better on the face of it in terms of just looking 'nicer' and pleasing on the eye, rather than being realistic.
Like i said with Germany vs Belgium (just a random match that happened to be on Eurosport) Watch Badstuber run, is it silky smooth, flowing like he's running on water like FIFA? No! It's a blunt, workman like marauder, just like in PES! Also with Ozil, does he go from also 0-60 as if he's in a Ferrari like in FIFA? No! Again, bursts of acceleration and close control like in PES.
Just ask Shorty_Alien and Honome who i used play play full manual matches on FIFA 09, dribbling is my biggest strong point in football games! I knew, every trick, combination, whatever, i always test it to the max, i did this in both demo. FIFA dribbling system is the old on rails system while PES have reached new heights.
Like i said, just watch a variety of matches all over the world, Brazil, France, Italy, Japan, USA, where ever, i bet on football and use Bet365, etc.. so i watch big variety, i remember a few Saturdays ago EVERY SINGLE MATCH, what ever league it was i watched that day reminded me of the pes demo! Stuff like variance of first touches, momentum of how player, speed up and slow down, dribbling especially, basic fundamentals! That what it's all about.
You just seem like one of those who only watches English football, watches a lot of match of the day, highlights etc.. Probably explains why you like FIFA so much! Also this really close camera you use? Seriously? football is a team game, you should be able to see a good part of the pitch so you can see your teammates and work space!
Really?
YouTube - PES 2011 Demo Dribbling!
Don't see any problems there. I trust your able to do this on PES 2011? Am i wrong?
No, there very good and contextual, animations are subtle, it's not overblown, sexed up and crazy.
Sorry but now you losing credibility here. Your saying all players do shots like Ronaldinho vs chelsea and the go easily in the top corner! If your going to give a rounded observation, don't come here talking as if you played the game for 5 minutes then ran off because you couldn't play it!
*Continues reading your post* PES is a sim!
Sorry but now i have to use the term fanboy here now, Manual passing not implemented properly? Talk about someone who know nothing about PES 2011! I can put the ball ANYWHERE i want with the manual pass on PES relative to my players, body position, momentum, stats etc.. other factors but i have far more control over manual on PES than FIFA,
romannogil knows this game inside out, he told he about the under-weighted passes on FIFA 11, and with manual it just crazy! Funny how this game limits you so you can't play long ground passes because of no zip? Your seriously saying that it's better than PES 2011 which allows you the freedom to even play extremely delicate passes, which not every my great friend over the years (Manual through balls since 08
) can achieve!Finally what i find most impressive is how on PES is that the manual passing isn't a chore or a constant annoyance on FIFA! With PES you have to really pick that final ball, leaving it to the semi default control won't guarantee nothing unless he's in loads of space! Because of how defenders compress the space it's hard to pick that ball, On FIFA manual, final balls aren't hard at all, infact there simple (defense AI very predictable) It's the putting passes together with the AI up you behind which is the challenge. Challenging it is certainly, but a realistic and balanced it's not in any way!
See video above
Animations are shit yes, i agree, bugs every now and again but they aren't really an issue, they can put in amazing performances though! Romero made some Gordon Banks like saves vs me!
Errm no, there isn't a huge list of game breaking issue, even the big issue of the green zone is pretty much eradicated on player int he full game! There si a huge room for improvement yes, but it's the best football game i've played
Sorry but if you think anyone should take your opinions seriously then be fair and objective when approaching both games. Try to make it should like your not just a biased fanboy following the crowd and saying PES is rubbish because if makes you feel better! Give credit to where the game deserves it.
Even me, who's been a harsh critic of FIFA 11 (not anymore) Has still praised the Goalkeeping animations (even int he system the run on is unrealistic, they are too agile and don't adhere to weight transfer, foot placement etc..)
Transitional animations (in terms of how the rabona, tricks, some animation do look very, very good!
Faces and presentation is very impressive.
I said myself i know what people see and love in this game. Your just spouting off endless shit, and won't even give PES a proper go. Sorry you views are absolutely terrible! You have just shown yourself to be biased!
I mean you come on here with you 'This game is the most realistic game ever' Yet you ALREADY! Creating rules such as playing without using the pressure button until the AI gets in the final 3rd? Also on full manual on world class vs the inch perfect cyborg like AI who rarely if ever miss a pas vs you working making it hard for yourself since the AI is so basic. Finally our tweaking custom tactics to try to get them to play in a 'realistic fashion' or just playing with reduced pressure, since the game is all about pressure!
I have PES 2011, and I don't need to bother with any of this and the game play exactly like football, i don't need to tweak the CPU's formations to make them play differently and surprise me, they do that by programming!
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
I had to stop reading at this point.
Seriously, you obviously either haven't given PES enough of a chance or you're just exaggerating to make a point. Either way, your statements are just as much a misrepresentation as Klash's.
FIFA and PES both do things better than the other in certain areas, but manual passing controls and amazing animations do not make a sim. There are very good reasons why the hardcore footballing gamers - those most interested in realism - have traditionally favored PES over FIFA. After a couple strange years, it looks like the status quo is returning.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Hey, i tried to explain my points! I didn't just make that observation on the spot out of ignorance?
After playing both demo's i thought like most people PES's animation weren't great but the more you play, the deeper it goes and also like i said you will be surprised how much the subtle animations replicate football like i was recently
Also about the status qou, I'm going to have to change my opinion. FIFA is a much better game in terms of quality that it was way back last decade on the PS2. The quality of their PS2 games were dire! Really dire! they weren't even fun! I mean the reason why i moan is because lately with FIFA 10 and 11 it gets the fundamentals wrong but it's still as a package a fun, very fluid well rounded game!
Most people agree FIFA is better as a all round video game than PES in terms of online. Back in the PS2 era it was just licensed crap really! If it didn't have licenses there would now way fifa would've survived vs PES back int he PS2 era because PES back then was a better video game!
There's no stopping pointless, repetitive, lengthy drivel in here but alas there's not much you can do with those who're hellbent on getting their point across. The game is pretty solid this year; have yet to come into any major annoyances with the exception of Clubs.
Speaking of which:
earom@twitter said:
stilts1844
League 1
- 2 January 2003
I think you explained your points quite well Klash, spot on really
And none of it was at the expense of trashing Fifa. Clearly anyone trying to say that PES is not a simulation has not even tried to play the game, especially this year's. (Just to qualify my Fifa bona fides I've played every EA football game since 08).
The boys on a WENB podcast, I think the one previous to this one, made an excellent point: it is kind of beside the point to discuss which game is a 'sim' as they are both a sim in their own right - but in simulating different things. And in the end it just depends what you want a game to simulate and even what you consider the definition of simulate.
By that point I mean there's the back and forth argument of whether manual or auto is really simulation. The real answer is both and neither. Obviously manual brings in more of a human element, but that's at least at the expense of some player individuality, it's up to the programmers to determine how much influence the in game players will have. On auto, you lose some human element but you obviously gain individuality (hence why I've always preferred semi as a happy medium). Someone could even argue that watching the computer play itself is the most complete sim, even if that's miserably boring. This is also why I love PES's system this year, because you don't have to choose before the game what system you're going to use, and it doesn't fracture the userbase- you can use both systems simultaneously. I've wanted this in FIFA for a while, as I want to have my semi controls but be able to play a manual pass if needed.
When it comes to fundamentals, PES simulates first touch, player turning, player dribbling, passing skill/innacuracy, corners, and tackling much better than Fifa.
Fifa simulates the game better in certain areas like freedom of movement most specifically in the ability to position yourself on long balls and move on throw ins, dribblers holding defenders off the ball (can't believe I'm saying this but they've got it spot on this year), in some cases responsiveness (especially on stepovers), the option of semi shooting etc.
It's just for many like me I find it hard to continue to look past the fundamental simulation aspects Fifa gets wrong vs. PES, as things like first touch and individuality are important to me and many others. And as the technical gap has been narrowed quite a bit, PES gets the edge again in many people's eyes.
So in the end, it's really a question of what do you want your football game to simulate?
And none of it was at the expense of trashing Fifa. Clearly anyone trying to say that PES is not a simulation has not even tried to play the game, especially this year's. (Just to qualify my Fifa bona fides I've played every EA football game since 08).
The boys on a WENB podcast, I think the one previous to this one, made an excellent point: it is kind of beside the point to discuss which game is a 'sim' as they are both a sim in their own right - but in simulating different things. And in the end it just depends what you want a game to simulate and even what you consider the definition of simulate.
By that point I mean there's the back and forth argument of whether manual or auto is really simulation. The real answer is both and neither. Obviously manual brings in more of a human element, but that's at least at the expense of some player individuality, it's up to the programmers to determine how much influence the in game players will have. On auto, you lose some human element but you obviously gain individuality (hence why I've always preferred semi as a happy medium). Someone could even argue that watching the computer play itself is the most complete sim, even if that's miserably boring. This is also why I love PES's system this year, because you don't have to choose before the game what system you're going to use, and it doesn't fracture the userbase- you can use both systems simultaneously. I've wanted this in FIFA for a while, as I want to have my semi controls but be able to play a manual pass if needed.
When it comes to fundamentals, PES simulates first touch, player turning, player dribbling, passing skill/innacuracy, corners, and tackling much better than Fifa.
Fifa simulates the game better in certain areas like freedom of movement most specifically in the ability to position yourself on long balls and move on throw ins, dribblers holding defenders off the ball (can't believe I'm saying this but they've got it spot on this year), in some cases responsiveness (especially on stepovers), the option of semi shooting etc.
It's just for many like me I find it hard to continue to look past the fundamental simulation aspects Fifa gets wrong vs. PES, as things like first touch and individuality are important to me and many others. And as the technical gap has been narrowed quite a bit, PES gets the edge again in many people's eyes.
So in the end, it's really a question of what do you want your football game to simulate?
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
I think you explained your points quite well Klash, spot on really
And none of it was at the expense of trashing Fifa. Clearly anyone trying to say that PES is not a simulation has not even tried to play the game, especially this year's. (Just to qualify my Fifa bona fides I've played every EA football game since 08).
The boys on a WENB podcast, I think the one previous to this one, made an excellent point: it is kind of beside the point to discuss which game is a 'sim' as they are both a sim in their own right - but in simulating different things. And in the end it just depends what you want a game to simulate and even what you consider the definition of simulate.
By that point I mean there's the back and forth argument of whether manual or auto is really simulation. The real answer is both and neither. Obviously manual brings in more of a human element, but that's at least at the expense of some player individuality, it's up to the programmers to determine how much influence the in game players will have. On auto, you lose some human element but you obviously gain individuality (hence why I've always preferred semi as a happy medium). Someone could even argue that watching the computer play itself is the most complete sim, even if that's miserably boring. This is also why I love PES's system this year, because you don't have to choose before the game what system you're going to use, and it doesn't fracture the userbase- you can use both systems simultaneously. I've wanted this in FIFA for a while, as I want to have my semi controls but be able to play a manual pass if needed.
When it comes to fundamentals, PES simulates first touch, player turning, player dribbling, passing skill/innacuracy, corners, and tackling much better than Fifa.
Fifa simulates the game better in certain areas like freedom of movement most specifically in the ability to position yourself on long balls and move on throw ins, dribblers holding defenders off the ball (can't believe I'm saying this but they've got it spot on this year), in some cases responsiveness (especially on stepovers), the option of semi shooting etc.
It's just for many like me I find it hard to continue to look past the fundamental simulation aspects Fifa gets wrong vs. PES, as things like first touch and individuality are important to me and many others. And as the technical gap has been narrowed quite a bit, PES gets the edge again in many people's eyes.
So in the end, it's really a question of what do you want your football game to simulate?
Thanks, very good post, you theory about the two games simulating different elements of football is an interesting one. This is what i want to see, some good observations here like this
Just touching on these points here.
Yes, PES needs to learn a few things about aerial battles, mainly from goal kicks is the problem there. FIFA they are always fighting for the ball!
True, but it's just a throw in
Your right in the sense of this here what you have said observed from the demos yes
. Even though i hate the physical play in FIFA with a passion, the fact it has 360 fight for possession etc.. compared when you played the PES demo and there was hardly any barging whatsoever (Too many fouls).Nothing wrong about what you said there, In the full game (PES 2011) the fouls are reduced to bring out a new element of the physical play element! Just letting you know if you play the full PES game, you will see physical play, it's very good
more concise! not a WWE match like in FIFA, but there are other who love that over the top physical play thing in fifa so it might come down to a matter of tastes!BTW There's an issue which makes the professional AI so they aren't quite aggressive enough consistently aswell.
embraceuk1
Original Member Since 2001
YouTube - PES 2011 Demo Dribbling!
Sorry klashman but every time you dribble past players its because your in the the greenzone the Ai wouldnt tackle you even if you stood still.
I hate ppl who just use the trick stick too its not real football. i have played pes since ISS days and have yet to do a single trick that the ai didnt perform for me automatically.
Sorry klashman but every time you dribble past players its because your in the the greenzone the Ai wouldnt tackle you even if you stood still.
I hate ppl who just use the trick stick too its not real football. i have played pes since ISS days and have yet to do a single trick that the ai didnt perform for me automatically.
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Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Wake me up when this thread is about Fifa again...
eliasg
Cypriot FIFA gamer
- 7 September 2007
so true...
I know i havent picked up the full game of Pes yet but judging by that demo and even some of the videos in the pes video thread theres lots wrong with the game. It looks awkward and unnatural. Some of the finishing is nice but there were a few, i think a Berbatov finish that looked realistic (the finish that is) and one titled Henry type finish, that looked real, but sadly let down by the build up play that looked stiff, rigid and the passing looked strangely unnatural, not to mention the a.i looked clumsy and unreactive.
Ill make my own judgements when i pick it up tomorrow.
As for 11, i cant work out if the game is too fast. Sometimes i chuck it on and it plays well, seems right, other times i put it on it seems like a million miles per hour.
I also looked at why this was for me last night and i realised that on slow setting pre patch, the animations arnt really as smooth and the game doesnt flow as well, but the speed seems fine.
But on normal the animations flow smoother, everything is fluid, but the speed feels to fast.
Also weirdly enough, if you put the game on normal and play using a jubilani, the game seems slower because the pattern and roll on the ball isnt as noticiable. When you play with the new prem nike ball the game feels faster because the markings on the ball are quite noticable and spinning a lot. Probably an illusion or a trick of the eye.
Still love this game though. Think the pitches need to be a bit bigger though.
Ill make my own judgements when i pick it up tomorrow.
As for 11, i cant work out if the game is too fast. Sometimes i chuck it on and it plays well, seems right, other times i put it on it seems like a million miles per hour.
I also looked at why this was for me last night and i realised that on slow setting pre patch, the animations arnt really as smooth and the game doesnt flow as well, but the speed seems fine.
But on normal the animations flow smoother, everything is fluid, but the speed feels to fast.
Also weirdly enough, if you put the game on normal and play using a jubilani, the game seems slower because the pattern and roll on the ball isnt as noticiable. When you play with the new prem nike ball the game feels faster because the markings on the ball are quite noticable and spinning a lot. Probably an illusion or a trick of the eye.
Still love this game though. Think the pitches need to be a bit bigger though.
johnny_on
Championship
- 29 February 2004
- Manchester City
placebo..... WAKE UP!!!
Seems there is another update happening on the 360 servers in an hour or so... Hope fully clubs fixed. While online has been dead its pushed me to career mode and i'm loving it, still got bugs but its been good.
Got Notts County promoted through the play-offs and scoring at Wembley after a slog in League 1 was great. Cannot find any argains in the transfer market though :-(
Seems there is another update happening on the 360 servers in an hour or so... Hope fully clubs fixed. While online has been dead its pushed me to career mode and i'm loving it, still got bugs but its been good.
Got Notts County promoted through the play-offs and scoring at Wembley after a slog in League 1 was great. Cannot find any argains in the transfer market though :-(
Robbery
stay cool its a Robbery
I still find it almost impossible to score against the CPU. What i'm missing most is that you can't beat a defender with a fast player and win some space. Most of the time even if you beat him there will be a second one right in front of you. Sometimes it feels like you are playing against 13 and not 11.
Speed Advantage is deadly in the real Game but in FIFA it is not. Look at my Avatar. These two guys are lightning fast and i see week in and week out (unfortunately not this season because both are missing due to injury) how they beat players with both speed an technique. In FIFA11 you may beat one defender with speed (not with trickstick just with speed advantage) but in no way you get the space to beat a next one except you are on a rare counter attack).
I think they make scoring way to difficult playing against the CPU / AI. Almost every game feels like you are playing against super brilliant defenders and defending. Almost every game end with sky high ball possession and very few shots on goal.
Maybe it is my playing style but i can't enjoy this game at the moment. With a little bit more space it would be miles better. Maybe EA should call it "We are everywhere" instead of "We are eleven".
Speed Advantage is deadly in the real Game but in FIFA it is not. Look at my Avatar. These two guys are lightning fast and i see week in and week out (unfortunately not this season because both are missing due to injury) how they beat players with both speed an technique. In FIFA11 you may beat one defender with speed (not with trickstick just with speed advantage) but in no way you get the space to beat a next one except you are on a rare counter attack).
I think they make scoring way to difficult playing against the CPU / AI. Almost every game feels like you are playing against super brilliant defenders and defending. Almost every game end with sky high ball possession and very few shots on goal.
Maybe it is my playing style but i can't enjoy this game at the moment. With a little bit more space it would be miles better. Maybe EA should call it "We are everywhere" instead of "We are eleven".
nerf
Forming triangles
re: PES animations... Klash, look at the Alonso shot at 1:54 in your video. The shot animation doesn't match the trajectory of the ball at all, the Japanese #4 does a gay little skip and headbutts a Spaniard in the shoulder, and the Japanese #5 does some strange little circular hop. I mean, we're nitpicking unimportant cosmetic stuff here now, but it is perhaps an example that highlights why some of us think some PES animations can look awkward and unnatural, not 'subtle and contextual'.
There are still some animations in that game lifted straight from PES5/6.
But this is all kind of irrelevent. Different gamers are turned on/off by different things, will have different tastes on everything from dribbling controls to background music to how specific animations look.
There are still some animations in that game lifted straight from PES5/6.
But this is all kind of irrelevent. Different gamers are turned on/off by different things, will have different tastes on everything from dribbling controls to background music to how specific animations look.