Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Why bother with a list when you say they don't listen.

I don't know whether to have a drink watching the footy or wait and go to Tesco at midnight!
 
Some good observations all around. I agree with what mfmaxpower comments on above. I also have limited shots and goal and score maybe once every other match, mostly from crosses. In previous previous FIFAs you could use speed to blow by defends to create chances. I'm not so sure this is very affective in this iteration of FIFA. However, this game really wants you to use the right stick skill moves, something i've never really used in past FIFAs. For instance, with a skilled dribbler if you try to just sprint by a defender, you will be tackled 90% of the time. But if you can time a simple skill move (cross-over with an exit) then maybe 80% of the time you won't be tackled. If you are tackled, then you will be awarded with a foul sometimes resulting in a yellow card for the opposition (this is actually pretty nice). Anyway, I do enjoy the gameplay so far, even if it isn't all that exciting against the CPU.
 
romagnoli said:
As I said, they've sped the top end and the bottom end up equally so there's still no real variation or control over that variation. It's still utterly compressed. The fact that the passing is sped right up, which it is, combined with the lack of inaccuracy and improved trapping, results in a much faster game - offline, but particularly online.

Theres also something about the pass targetting system that is wrong -I've been playing full manual as my VP but online I gave semi assisted a go - I tapped X to play a short pass as a layoff to a striker following up, but the game read me as picking a completely different target and ended up booting the ball a bloody mile back towards my defenders. As in, past the midfielders too! And no it isn't power assistance, that's switched off. I've also had it where I've held X to hit a max power pass to the left back from RCB but the pass is clearly weighted and aimed at the LCB. Weird.


Faster than the demo, or at least pre patch. Only slightly, compared to what they've done to the passing. It's probably a side effect of the passing and the trapping being a lot quicker and tighter respectively, meaning the game is always on the move. Just as with the passing, there's no dynamic in the player movements.

That's half length.
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I see what you mean - so is the answer to further increase the top end speed while keeping the bottom velocity the same? That would take care of my gripe of slow pass speed for medium-long range passing while also introducing the missing variety you mention, no?

Funny, I haven't played too many matches on assisted but I did seem to notice what I thought were some quirks in the targeting, but I figured it was down to not regularly playing with assisted passing. Besides, it's in PES that I have difficulties with player targeting with passes, though that may also be down to inexperience as well.

Don't you think it's interesting how both passing and player speeds are, to use your description of passing, "compressed?" There's a lack in variety in both and both appear to have a lower maximum than they should - watching the Champions League matches I can't count the number of times I've seen a winger, like Bale, create 5 yards of space between him and a fullback in a way that's just not possible, or at least too rare, in the game.

If you saw the Man Utd-Valencia match and remember the move in which Evra was completely embarrassed by a Valencia winger, who used a little juke to then speed by and create distance that effectively put Evra out of the play, well that's the type of move I keep trying to recreate unsuccessfully in the game.

So, is EA's approach to slowing gamespeed to simply cap passing and player movement speeds? Weird because, rather than doing something like add greater variety to first touch and directional passing error, which would have by extension added more realism, instead they've made it even less realistic by capping pass and player max speeds. Am I wrong?

bry4ntwoods said:
Some good observations all around. I agree with what mfmaxpower comments on above. I also have limited shots and goal and score maybe once every other match, mostly from crosses. In previous previous FIFAs you could use speed to blow by defends to create chances. I'm not so sure this is very affective in this iteration of FIFA. However, this game really wants you to use the right stick skill moves, something i've never really used in past FIFAs. For instance, with a skilled dribbler if you try to just sprint by a defender, you will be tackled 90% of the time. But if you can time a simple skill move (cross-over with an exit) then maybe 80% of the time you won't be tackled. If you are tackled, then you will be awarded with a foul sometimes resulting in a yellow card for the opposition (this is actually pretty nice). Anyway, I do enjoy the gameplay so far, even if it isn't all that exciting against the CPU.
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Good point - in the past I never felt it necessary to rely on skill moves to create space and beat a man, but skill moves do seem more important now. Maybe that's my problem on offense - I am absolutely horrible when it comes to skill moves! Seems like everything I try turns into a heel-kick or a reverse step-over! I also find that 9 out of 10 times a CPU defender will not fall for, or react to, a skill move, though again maybe that's my own fault.

Any tips on how others are creating chances?
 
Right so the postie came round at 8pm (what's going on?!) and I've managed to play a few matches, both pre, during and pre patch again.

Pre-patch
Played a few matches and the game is faster then the demo. Variation in passing power is pretty irrelevant. Maybe once, in all the games, I've found myself thinking, hmmmm should have put more power on that pass. And even then it was a LB (Agger) passing it to Carra at CB. So it's pretty pointless for the higher rated teams. P+ is as noticable, or not depending on how you feel about it, as the demo to me. You can tell here and there which player you are using, but most of the time it doesn't make a meaningfull difference like PES. Defending........j'sus this is poor! I'm playing WC (6min halves) and I maybe need to use the X button once or twice a half, I'm comfortably defending throughout the match with just sprinting and timing a shoulder barge to nick the ball away. Although a lot of the time, when the ball is in midfield you don't even need to press anything as running close enough to the AI player will result in your own player automatically sticking a toe or leg out and winning the ball or knocking it away for someone else to scramble the ball away from the AI player. It's meaningless...
Team AI, is as poor, if not worse then before. I set up my team to be ultra defensive and set the opposition up to keep the ball (slow build up), I wasn't tackling but only sheparding the AI players a bit and the only time they really passed the ball was when they had a huge amount of space. Most of the time they just run into cul de sac's and lose the ball. And I'm playing against the CL runners-up.....away! I was actually pleasantly surprised to see 4 consecutive passes from the AI that weren't attack/attack/attack. But most of the time their play is reduced to 3 or 4 passes in total (which is defender, midfielder, winger, midfielder....cul de sac).

The only way the game will resemble any type of realistic play (from what I've seen and I'm really wondering whether to even bother try the tactics again like 10) is if you play possesion pressure football and expect to opposition to only counter.

Sprinting just doesn't work (although whether that is good or bad is another matter), went past Vanbuyten with Torres and used the knock-on to try and get clear but everytime Torres was about to close in on the ball he ended up in the 360defending lock-on so you had to do another knock-on and the same sequence repeated itself untill you were near the area, by which time you couldn't use the knock-on as you ahd to set yourself up for a shot. But that didn't work as the defender is all over you and you lose accuracy. (AI passing accuracy averaged in the mid 70-ties)

Post Patch
First reaction was; "J'sus, why have they made the game so f#$king fast!". Passing power seemed even more irrelevant and I can't say I noticed any meaningfull improvements. AI passing average was 89%.

Post-Post Patch
Deleted the patch and started again, however this time the gamespeed difference didn't feel much slower. Tbh I think they haven't altered the gamespeed, however what they have done is made passing response sharper and the stuff Rom has mentioned above, which makes the game feel a lot faster. However I started testing it out and I could pass nearly as quickly as the patched version so I think it's more to do with how you play the game (I'd hate to have to play the game online!)

Something Positive...
I actually found that just switching direction is a great way to keep possesion and beat a player. Had Cole halfway in the oppositions half and he had a defender infront and behind him closing in whilst he was jogging towards the sideline. A quick turn left the two defenders for dead and he put a cross is. It's now a lot better to keep possesion and have short passing movements in the centre of the pitch.....However once you get the ball to your strikers the poor balance between defense and attack means loads of attacks just break down because you are pushed off the ball or crowded out. Another positive is that the game has some semblemce of flow, the first halves are usually condensed and tight, however the further in the match you get the more space starts to open up.

Conclusion
I think it's save to say Rutter&Co. have undone all the good groundwork from Booth&Co. and FIFA is back to it's spiritual home of Arcade Shite. It may be technically a great game, it may have some great aspects and qualities, however I have lost patience and the will to look past the now many many footballing flaws present in the game. I might give the CM a chance as I have to wait for the UK version of PES to arrive so I might get some joy from that, but I really doubt it.

It's a dissapointing release for me, as it's probably the best FIFA game this generation, but that has also made it the least like football. I'm hoping some more time with it and the CM will make more more enthousiastic, however these are my first impressions.
 
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TikTikTikTikTik said:
Defending........j'sus this is poor! I'm playing WC (6min halves) and I maybe need to use the X button once or twice a half, I'm comfortably defending throughout the match with just sprinting and timing a shoulder barge to nick the ball away. Although a lot of the time, when the ball is in midfield you don't even need to press anything as running close enough to the AI player will result in your own player automatically sticking a toe or leg out and winning the ball or knocking it away for someone else to scramble the ball away from the AI player. It's meaningless...
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Nice write up Tik. It's sad really, there's so many great things about FIFA and I love some of the little improvements they've made here and there, but the bigger picture for me, and you too it sounds like, is the game is as unbalanced as ever. I'm truly glad for, and more than a little jealous of, those for which the positives outweigh the negatives, or are lucky to not be seeing the things that we are.

You reminded me that I had intended to mention the auto-defending animations as a perfect example of how a seemingly nice and benign addition actually contributes to unbalancing the game. It's unreal how now you can get by with just running next to a dribbler without pushing anything and frequently you'll stab the ball away. Very cool animations but these additions don't work when there's not corresponding improvements on the other side of the ball. It's not so much that the changes to defending and tackling are bad as much as the improvements to dribbling and moving with the ball aren't enough to keep up with the defensive side of the game. And it's not just a matter of "oh you need to get better" because the CPU on Legendary struggles to get by my own defenders.

I feel your frustration but I don't want to give up on this game when it does have quite a lot going for it. My patience is thinning though, especially after playing the US version of the PES demo, which definitely is improved over the Euro version, and then hearing that the final version is indeed even more polished. I'm hoping that once we're past the full release of FIFA, maybe EA will come out from hiding, participate in the discussion, and put that new Pro Patching system to work.
 
Okay I really don't like paying 60 bucks for a game who's only decent game mode is buggy as fuck. Every year EA has some sort of server issues with their new games. Why? I just want to play clubs.
 
Nick Cave said:
Hmmm you can pick a Player in Player Mode, but not Player-Manager mode it seems! How odd?...
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Huh?! So what's the point of 'player/manager' mode? I mean if you're not selecting a player then aren't you playing with whole team like as in regular 'manager' mode?

I haven't tried 'player/manager' mode yet, that's why I ask and am confused.
 
Nice write up, Tik.

For the first time in about a week, I cranked up the FIFA11 demo and within about 30 secs, turned it off again in disgust. Complete and utter shite.

Turned on PES11 demo and have been playing it all night. It gets better the more I play it and in comparison, FIFA looks like amateurish, simplistic garbage.

It's a bit bamboozling, considering just one iteration ago, FIFA seemed to be vastly superior to the dross that was PES2010.

Oh well, Rutter and his team of arcade fucktards can go fuck themselves this year. Complete and utter FAIL. PES is vastly superior and gets my money.
 
£29.97 @ Asda, 300 fucking people queing to buy the bloody thing. They are going to take some serious many on this game.
 
winston said:
Nice write up, Tik.

For the first time in about a week, I cranked up the FIFA11 demo and within about 30 secs, turned it off again in disgust. Complete and utter shite.

Turned on PES11 demo and have been playing it all night. It gets better the more I play it and in comparison, FIFA looks like amateurish, simplistic garbage.

It's a bit bamboozling, considering just one iteration ago, FIFA seemed to be vastly superior to the dross that was PES2010.

Oh well, Rutter and his team of arcade fucktards can go fuck themselves this year. Complete and utter FAIL. PES is vastly superior and gets my money.
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we get it...you don't like fifa 11...fair enough!
 
They've updated the gameplay again and it's back how it was. They change gameplay in the squad updates and today's has undone the FIFA 10 speed.

I had some good games against someone on full manual. The aerial game is actually pretty good - there's a sense of uncertainty and chaos to defending long balls, and attacking the ball can lead to neother defender nor attacker getting onto the ball, so a follow-up run is always worth a punt. The passing game is a nightmare by comparison though.

I think the frictionless pitch has a lot to do with it as well. It's so hard to hit a pass that splits a defence or finds the winger expertly because the ball just doesn't slow down. It makes it extremely difficult to find a winger at a specific point of his run - a run that is being expertly followed by a defender who is almost identically fast and cannot be caught flat footed, ever.
 
I got the game yesterday, I've played 3 games offline and about 10 against mates online.

I need to play it more before I write a detailed review.

In brief I must say I'm really impressed with the game. Some of the football you can play at times is stunning. I really am struggling to see how the game has received all this negativity!!!

People complained about sprint whores in FIFA 09/10, EA have toned down the acceleration and people are complaining of lack of speed???

The game is simple amazing, you actually have to pass the ball about (now) and work for you chances unlike 09,10 & WC. I honestly think that the people who are struggling to adapt and enjoy the game are trying to play the game like FIFA 10. That simple doesn't work! You need to play the ball about and look to make little intricate passes in the middle of the park. In doing this, you find the likes of Cesc in acres of space. Now you have time you can use sprint, by the time the defender gets remotely close to you are usually at full speed (if you haven't already picked someone out with a pass).

There really is no pleasing some people. People complaining about 0-0 draws as if it's a bad thing? What would you prefer to win 4-0 every match? In the good old days playing PES 2,3,4 I remember experiencing the same thing in the ML. It's bloody hard to score but there is nothing more rewarding than scraping a 1-0 win away from home.

I find that taking players on is now much more rewarding. Using the little move where you drag the ball to one side works like a dream (as it did/does in PES). People have also complained about the defenders closing you down once you have got past them. This is another negative that can easily be turned into a positive... if the defender is too close (as in this case), drag the ball past him or pull off the fake shot move and cut inside the fullback. Also flicking the right stick helps you stay ahead of the defender.

Some of the animations are absolute quality, seeing JT through himself in the way of shot looks top notch. The increase in animations don't just make the game look more realistic but they help the game play out in a more realistic manner. One instance was when I received a 2nd yellow for a cynical trip from Sagna! In previous FIFA's standing fouls resulting in yellows was a rarity to say the least.

Anyway that's my inital thoughts... I know I'm probably in the minority when I say this but I'm really enjoying the game. I cant wait to play it again... it's going to be a long say at work!
 
romagnoli said:
They've updated the gameplay again and it's back how it was. They change gameplay in the squad updates and today's has undone the FIFA 10 speed.

I had some good games against someone on full manual. The aerial game is actually pretty good - there's a sense of uncertainty and chaos to defending long balls, and attacking the ball can lead to neother defender nor attacker getting onto the ball, so a follow-up run is always worth a punt. The passing game is a nightmare by comparison though.

I think the frictionless pitch has a lot to do with it as well. It's so hard to hit a pass that splits a defence or finds the winger expertly because the ball just doesn't slow down. It makes it extremely difficult to find a winger at a specific point of his run - a run that is being expertly followed by a defender who is almost identically fast and cannot be caught flat footed, ever.
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You sure that patch brought everything back? Or was finesse shot abuse an issue before and after? Something feels different now and that's before I even noticed that I had downloaded an update. I saw the message and said yes while I was talking to someone and didn't even think that it might affect gameplay.

Game starts and it feels like they've made it even easier to turn at lightening speed (even crazier first touch), and my opponent is just 180 passing all day. I swear he tapped a slow roller right in the direction of my defender and at the last possible second, instead of trapping it, he steps over the ball again like he was streching for a ball and missed it. Guy is off down the wing. This happened so many times and there's nothing I could do about it. I'm standing all in this guy's passing lanes and the ball is just going through my players' legs.

What exactly do you feel this patch changed over the last one? I don't see any difference really except the game seems even more chaotic than before.

And online, the pressure is definitely even worse. I cannot shield the ball or my player is just getting knocked over. There are no fouls called. Period. I see a guy run at me and I try and turn away. He just runs through me still. At least I used to get a few fouls doing it after the last patch. Now I get nothing.

And what's the deal with the LT/RT move. So unrealistic and seems to freeze your defenders when a guy is running left and then somehow does an Usher dance move to go back to the right. And then fires a finesse shot, ONCE AGAIN, of Lloris' head when I wasn't bringing the keeper out.
 
romagnoli said:
They've updated the gameplay again and it's back how it was. They change gameplay in the squad updates and today's has undone the FIFA 10 speed.

I had some good games against someone on full manual. The aerial game is actually pretty good - there's a sense of uncertainty and chaos to defending long balls, and attacking the ball can lead to neother defender nor attacker getting onto the ball, so a follow-up run is always worth a punt. The passing game is a nightmare by comparison though.

I think the frictionless pitch has a lot to do with it as well. It's so hard to hit a pass that splits a defence or finds the winger expertly because the ball just doesn't slow down. It makes it extremely difficult to find a winger at a specific point of his run - a run that is being expertly followed by a defender who is almost identically fast and cannot be caught flat footed, ever.
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Is it worth playing?
 
I didn't say that, Klash! ;) Did you get it in the end? If not, I'd probably rent it or borrow it off a mate. I'd give it a month or two as well maybe, to let EA patch the game a few more times until they improve the balance/decide to stop tweaking it. It was good against this manual guy but he wasn't pressuring and was taking his time. As ever, it's a case of FIFA being a better game of football when the other person plays it like football, rather than being able to cut loose and go for it because the game rewards good football in the first place.

To clarify, I just meant the game speed seemed to have slowed down again with the newer update. I didn't mean the trapping and turning is back to what it was. And finesse shots were always a problem in the retail version - Glen had a good moan about it to me via PSN at the start of the week.
 
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played clubs for a bit, i thought the speed was fine and looked nice but just played a mate and somehow it was worse than fifa 09. speed was way to fast and ping pong passing was active. it annoys me how fifa have done this. listen to a 13 year old who doesnt understand how football really works. ea have gone shite this year, i'm taking this to trade in few days, make £5 profit on it

but thats first impressions. i'll give it few more days to see if it grows, maybe he had high speed, i'll check it out
 
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aitk3n said:
played clubs for a bit, i thought the speed was fine and looked nice but just played a mate and somehow it was worse than fifa 09. speed was way to fast and ping pong passing was active. it annoys me how fifa have done this. listen to a 13 year old who doesnt understand how football really works. ea have gone shite this year, i'm taking this to trade in few days, make £5 profit on it

but thats first impressions. i'll give it few more days to see if it grows, maybe he had high speed, i'll check it out
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Fast? Your mate must have changed the gamespeed as there is NO way that the game is too fast now. IMO the speed is perfect on slow.

Ping pong passing? Use manual mate.

Now that I've fixed your gamebreaking issues what other issues are you having?
 
Don't get the complaints on speed either. I've had most of my club mates saying the game plays at a much more deliberate pace this year. Then there are those from a local forum I frequent saying the game's much harder because of this!

It really has become a war of polarizing opinions, with the negative ones drowning out positives (such as your post Robo) as usual.
 
Robo1979 said:
Fast? Your mate must have changed the gamespeed as there is NO way that the game is too fast now. IMO the speed is perfect on slow.

Ping pong passing? Use manual mate.
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Manual isn't manual anymore. Got the shit ping-ponged out of me a few matches ago. Players opening their legs and doing the splits instead of intercepting passes made right at them and the lovely barging off the ball is alive and well.
 
adelante said:
Don't get the complaints on speed either. I've had most of my club mates saying the game plays at a much more deliberate pace this year. Then there are those from a local forum I frequent saying the game's much harder because of this!

It really has become a war of polarizing opinions, with the negative ones drowning out positives (such as your post Robo) as usual.
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Yeah it really is strange. I wonder whether I am playing the same game as others at times!

My only conclusion is people are trying to play the game in a manner that was effective on FIFA 10/WC.

I guess that's the way of the world adelante, people just love to complain! Someone was complaining on another forum saying that FIFA 11 is too slow! We've been asking for EA to slow it down for the last two years ffs! LOL!

How are you finding it? Some of the football I play at times is amazing, I think I may have to invest in a capture card and show some of these people how it's done! ;)
 
Murkurial said:
Manual isn't manual anymore. Got the shit ping-ponged out of me a few matches ago. Players opening their legs and doing the splits instead of intercepting passes made right at them and the lovely barging off the ball is alive and well.
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It's still manual mate. Just not the manual we are used to in FIFA 10. Is that a bad thing? I don't think it is. No more inch perfect 40 yard passes down the line from Ledley King.

In regards to the 'barging off the ball' I think that has something to do with (generally speaking) your decision making. Knowing when to run with the ball and knowing when you should pass it.

In 3 x 10 minute halved offline games I had it happen once with Diaby and Huddlestone. I tried to get past him, he knocked me off the ball, I knocked him off the ball and played it outwide to Walcott. No big deal for me, it's certainly not game breaking as people have suggested.

Not sure about your splits theory, again I don't recall it happening to me. Have you got any vids to evidence this (not saying I don't believe you). Does it happen while playing assisted players, manual or both? I only play against people on full manual from my friends list.
 
Holy shit, just downloaded the most recent update and wow what a difference it has made. The game feels a bit faster now but at the same time my players are quicker and more responsive, I'm getting behind enemy defenses like I wasn't before and I'm actually able to dribble past defenders. I don't feel like my guys are running through water like I did earlier today.

Something really weird is going on because I was cautiously optimistic when I first played the game, then all doom and gloom I guess after I updated my squads yesterday which had a gameplay update(?) and then now I'm feeling better about it after updating once again. Wtf is going on?

You know what would be nice? Some f-in communication from EA for pete's sake.

(On the other hand I'm finding tiny bugs everywhere. Since the most recent update my music is playing through the matches! Nothing happens even when I lower the volume through the settings menu.)
 
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