FIFA 10

Some great news from the FIFA 10 forums about the new commentary:

There's a bunch of new stuff I can already hear in the game that supports the new features we have in Manager Mode, i.e. Transfer speech, Player Form Speech, Board Confidence comments and much more to come.
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I can't see it being too detailed, i.e. "Coyne has just moved here from Tranmere for £5,000", more along the lines of "this guy has just moved so he's got to settle in". But either way it's a nice touch. They also need to copy the PES commentary at the beginning of league games, where he says how the team is doing and if they're closer to the top or the bottom (even if it's only ten words or so).
 
Chris Davies said:
I can't see it being too detailed, i.e. "Coyne has just moved here from Tranmere for £5,000", more along the lines of "this guy has just moved so he's got to settle in".
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Maybe it'll be like the good old days, where developers "seemlessly" superimposed things like player names into pre-recorded sentences, but the names were recorded on a different day, using completely different intonation, volume, pitch of voice, even different recording equipment.

So it'll be "COYNE!!"..."has just moved here from Tranmere for"....."£5000!!!".

Like a Brucie toupee, you could never spot the joins.
 
Winston!! It's been ages!!

But yeah, I miss those days. I remember playing one of the LMA Manager games and I used to love Gary Lineker's intro, it would always be... "[In a tone of voice that makes him sound happy as Larry] Today we're here! :D For the game! :D Gillingham! :D Against! :D [Switches to totally disinterested, like the floor manager gave him a tea instead of a coffee and he'd just found out his cat was hit by a car] Tranmere Rovers. :II"

Mind you, I don't blame him.
 
David Pleat comedy DLC would be a hit with the PES fans, it would be a step back to the fake names you used to have to put up with. It would get progessively worse the longer you have it.

"Real Madrid (not Rey-al Madrid) versus Manchester United. Here comes Ronaldo, passes it to Kakar, passes it to eczema - sorry, Bemenza, Benzema - oh, goal! But the keeper was poor there, San Der Var should have had that." Followed by a full-time analysis consisting purely of Clive Tyldesley throttling him.
 
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Yeah, it's that time of year and curiosity finally got the better of me, so I decided to see come and what's happening in the next iteration of football games.

Haven't read everything about both games in great detail but I must say that PES2010 sounds like the same old list of "improvements". Predictable and uninspiring.

At least FIFA2010 has 360 degree dribbling. Not as much of a leap as I'd have liked to see, but at least it's progress. Hasn't Trance-Allstar got a job with them yet? They need to implement his ideas about the whole gameplay mechanics, getting right back to the basics of how to simulate the kicking of a ball and how we can use a controller to do what we really want to do with the ball.

Ah well, I'm still a regular player of FIFA09 on-line 10v10, so they must be getting something right.

I guess Placebo will be happy they're putting some effort into Manager Mode.
 
winston said:
I guess Placebo will be happy they're putting some effort into Manager Mode.
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More unhappy that there's still some glaring omissions, i.e. you can still only do two season-long loans each season, no three month loans etc...
 
Chris Davies said:
Winston!! It's been ages!!

But yeah, I miss those days. I remember playing one of the LMA Manager games and I used to love Gary Lineker's intro, it would always be... "[In a tone of voice that makes him sound happy as Larry] Today we're here! :D For the game! :D Gillingham! :D Against! :D [Switches to totally disinterested, like the floor manager gave him a tea instead of a coffee and he'd just found out his cat was hit by a car] Tranmere Rovers. :II"

Mind you, I don't blame him.
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lol, this had me cracking up. don't imagine you guys played the old Maddens but Summerall's commentary was legendarily funny ([deadpans] oh no, there's a man down. [as an ambulance scoops a seemingly dead player off the field])
 
Did anyone ever play the tiger woods version where one of the commentators would make a strange comment when you made a small putt?

"Just a tap in from here...catch a stiffy"
:D used to get my brother everytime hahah
 
winston said:
Yeah, it's that time of year and curiosity finally got the better of me, so I decided to see come and what's happening in the next iteration of football games.

Haven't read everything about both games in great detail but I must say that PES2010 sounds like the same old list of "improvements". Predictable and uninspiring.
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Hi Winston

I disagree, the mocap for a start is a huge thing for pes which is bound to make it a much more fluid and far less robotic experience.Online is being revamped with the introduction of a playable online champions league. The graphics look to have taken a further jump with charachter models and dynamic lighting looking fantastic.

I don't think it is the same old same old this year, Konami are liasing with the community and trying much harder to implement change.

Obviously they are trying to catch up with Fifa so you will not see huge steps from EA from now on in to the next gen but I do beleive that PES will eventually get back on a par because it has far more soul than the fifa game. Fifa needs to have more feeling, variety, responsiveness, better ball physics and a feeling of weight for it to become that "complete game"

One thing is for sure, I think we aint alf gonna be spoilt this season and I for one cannot wait:BOP:
 
andish2001 said:
Did anyone ever play the tiger woods version where one of the commentators would make a strange comment when you made a small putt?

"Just a tap in from here...catch a stiffy"
:D used to get my brother everytime hahah
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And who can forget the classic.

"That's a good lie...... IF YOUR A BOVINE!"
 
image.php
 
Something else that needs fixing

http://www.eafootballworld.com/en_GB/video/6983020

No awareness of danger, not just the goal keeper outfield players to just freeze while the ball is bouncing.

That's why I do not get the logic in automatically forcing players to slow down when running on to bouncing or airborne balls. That's why you get this glitch or bug or whatever.
 
Dr Force said:
Hi Winston

I disagree, the mocap for a start is a huge thing for pes which is bound to make it a much more fluid and far less robotic experience.Online is being revamped with the introduction of a playable online champions league. The graphics look to have taken a further jump with charachter models and dynamic lighting looking fantastic.

I don't think it is the same old same old this year, Konami are liasing with the community and trying much harder to implement change.

Obviously they are trying to catch up with Fifa so you will not see huge steps from EA from now on in to the next gen but I do beleive that PES will eventually get back on a par because it has far more soul than the fifa game. Fifa needs to have more feeling, variety, responsiveness, better ball physics and a feeling of weight for it to become that "complete game"

One thing is for sure, I think we aint alf gonna be spoilt this season and I for one cannot wait:BOP:
Click to expand...

Time will tell. I think the reason I find the PES list so uninspiring is that I've not seen any mention of a "new game engine".

It sounds like they're still building on the old engine, graphically improving it to bring it in line with current console standards, but I suspect the findamental feel of the game will be very similar to previous incarnations. As I've already played previous incarnations to death over the past decade, I'm not excited.

Call me an old cynic, but I take announcements of online improvements with a pinch of salt. They said that last year, and they failed to deliver.

FIFA already plays a great on-line game, so it'll be an automatic pre-order for me. PES needs to prove itself again.
 
winston said:
Time will tell. I think the reason I find the PES list so uninspiring is that I've not seen any mention of a "new game engine".

It sounds like they're still building on the old engine, graphically improving it to bring it in line with current console standards, but I suspect the findamental feel of the game will be very similar to previous incarnations. As I've already played previous incarnations to death over the past decade, I'm not excited.

Call me an old cynic, but I take announcements of online improvements with a pinch of salt. They said that last year, and they failed to deliver.

FIFA already plays a great on-line game, so it'll be an automatic pre-order for me. PES needs to prove itself again.
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Yes...but... Fifa needed a new engine because it was light years behind PES I do not think its a new engine PES needs, it needs to build on the base it had on PES5, freeing up the game more, getting rid of scripts, adding animation, graphics and variable play.

PES5 with FIFA's fluidity is the game for me.
 
Quite a long post, I tried to reduce it. That's for all these people expecting pes 2010 to magically have incredible improvements.

Some people say PES 2010 will deliver, they have some major improvements yet to be public. They put 200 people to work on it this year. They have failed and this time they know they must deliver, bla bla bla.

And sometimes people say "they don't need a new engine", oh yeah, the current engine is great because it's the evolution of pes5 (5 years ago) was the best football game on the universe.

Games are not done like that. And next-gen games are very different to what you would develop for a ps2, to say something. Times have changed. A LOT.

Let's explain more carefully about the "egnine". At least, how I see it. There's a gameplay engine behind surface, and normally it's composed of different "engines": physics, ai, control interface, graphics, animation, logic and on-line communication.

Konami has an horrible physics engine, a horrible ai engine and a poor control interface, not to mention the animation engine (doing mocaps won't automatically resolve how animations are dealed in-game when things have to go procedural or inverted kinetics take place) or the on-line communications engine, which is one of the worst in the world.

So, to have a really great game, they should:

- Rewrite the physics engine (I haven't heard anything about that, they're only tweaking variables for the ball direction and speed as long as we know). So, collisions may be as poor as they have ben up to now.

- AI Engine: it takes a LOT of work. They say they have invested some time with tactics. Let's wait and see what they com up with, but experience (Teamvision anyone?) tell us they implementation is very shallow, after 9 years of pes they still have CBs that suddenly go away by no reason. Should we expect they do in 1 year the work EA did in the last 4 years?

- Control interface: That is a very delicate thing. EA has done a revolution with the control modes. PES needs some kind of SEMI if not MANUAL control setting that let us have more influence on how things develop on screen. For instance, 20% of passes in PES won't go where I was expecting, and sometimes they go to a totally different direction. That's because the interface between human interaction and game logic is too scripted and they rely too much on stats and automated behaviours. Changing this would be a good sign for the PES series in my opinion, but I doubt they do it. At least, there's no word about it. It's a joke that crossing the ball only asks for pressing a button, sometimes double pressing the button and the ball will automatically go to your striker's head. Or anywhere else by no reason. That's not a solid control interface in the current generation. EA may still have some major flaws with this, but it's at least 2 years ahead of Konami. Should we expect Konami delivering a major step up in this direction in just one year?

- Graphics: Here Konami seems to be doing major steps. Lightning seems very good and faces are great. My doubt is that all these things have almost no impact on wide cam. If I were konami I would have focused first on other things. But hey, it seems they're doing this right, so let's enjoy it for what it is!

- Animations: PES has a big problem with animations. Not only mocap sessions (EA again has 3 years of advantage and they are accumulating hundreds of animations from previous years) will save the day. They need to time these animations into the game, into the different variables and engines. For instance, you can have some great "fall to floor" animations, but in order to be credible, you need to know where the impact was registered in order to choose from the different animations which one will suit better. Or you need to have your animations integrated with some kind of procedural routines that let the legs stretch to the ball or move an arm towards the defender, or kick the ball with different variables. All these is a great work to implement. EA has a big experience with this, while Konami has done it for the first time. Should we expect they deliver in one year (and only 2 months to implement it and test it as it seems by the official mocap sessions and the builds distributed recently) what EA has been working on for 3 years?

- Logic: That's everything related to logic functions in the game, such as substitutions, application of rules, fatigue, stats... and cheats. In this department, I don't think either game has any advantage. They're pretty even. One game does some things better than the other and viceversa.

- On-line: Few words need to be put here. Konami has no credit. That doesn't mean they won't pull it out. Simply that the major failures in the last years are ridiculous. I don't know of any sports game with a worst online than pes. They need to work HARD on it. And again, will they be able to do it in just one year?

At the end, there's something appaling: Konami has been lazy and disoriented the last 3 or 4 years and now they're paying the price. It's possible to have faith in pes 2010? Of course. I have. But very very little. Because they need to "recover" 3 years of work, and these processes are very time-consuming and set on a trial-error base.

It doesn't matter if you put 200 or 400 people to work on it. In one year there's a limit on what you can develop properly. And Konami won't suddenly surprise everyone implementing everything wrote in this post. It's simply humanly not possible to do it in only one year.

Nobody believes they have been working on pes 2010 for some years. Nuts!

Would I like pes 2010 to be a good game? Of course!
Can it be a good game? We will see.
Can it be better than Fifa in all the things listed here? Nuts!
That means Fifa is the best game? Fifa has its major flaws, but it's a far more deep game right now. If they continue to develop at the rate they're doing, it will be difficult to be caught by PES in the near future. But that doesn't mean everybody will like Fifa more than PES. If you look for a quick action football game, maybe PEs is excellent for you. I have no problem with this. Everyone's entitled to his opinion.

But from an objective point of view, most of the things Fifa does good in order to achieve the sense of "simulation" cannot be matched by pes in one or two years.
 
drekkard said:
Quite a long post, I tried to reduce it. That's for all these people expecting pes 2010 to magically have incredible improvements.

Some people say PES 2010 will deliver, they have some major improvements yet to be public. They put 200 people to work on it this year. They have failed and this time they know they must deliver, bla bla bla.

And sometimes people say "they don't need a new engine", oh yeah, the current engine is great because it's the evolution of pes5 (5 years ago) was the best football game on the universe.

Games are not done like that. And next-gen games are very different to what you would develop for a ps2, to say something. Times have changed. A LOT.

Let's explain more carefully about the "egnine". At least, how I see it. There's a gameplay engine behind surface, and normally it's composed of different "engines": physics, ai, control interface, graphics, animation, logic and on-line communication.

Konami has an horrible physics engine, a horrible ai engine and a poor control interface, not to mention the animation engine (doing mocaps won't automatically resolve how animations are dealed in-game when things have to go procedural or inverted kinetics take place) or the on-line communications engine, which is one of the worst in the world.

So, to have a really great game, they should:

- Rewrite the physics engine (I haven't heard anything about that, they're only tweaking variables for the ball direction and speed as long as we know). So, collisions may be as poor as they have ben up to now.

- AI Engine: it takes a LOT of work. They say they have invested some time with tactics. Let's wait and see what they com up with, but experience (Teamvision anyone?) tell us they implementation is very shallow, after 9 years of pes they still have CBs that suddenly go away by no reason. Should we expect they do in 1 year the work EA did in the last 4 years?

- Control interface: That is a very delicate thing. EA has done a revolution with the control modes. PES needs some kind of SEMI if not MANUAL control setting that let us have more influence on how things develop on screen. For instance, 20% of passes in PES won't go where I was expecting, and sometimes they go to a totally different direction. That's because the interface between human interaction and game logic is too scripted and they rely too much on stats and automated behaviours. Changing this would be a good sign for the PES series in my opinion, but I doubt they do it. At least, there's no word about it. It's a joke that crossing the ball only asks for pressing a button, sometimes double pressing the button and the ball will automatically go to your striker's head. Or anywhere else by no reason. That's not a solid control interface in the current generation. EA may still have some major flaws with this, but it's at least 2 years ahead of Konami. Should we expect Konami delivering a major step up in this direction in just one year?

- Graphics: Here Konami seems to be doing major steps. Lightning seems very good and faces are great. My doubt is that all these things have almost no impact on wide cam. If I were konami I would have focused first on other things. But hey, it seems they're doing this right, so let's enjoy it for what it is!

- Animations: PES has a big problem with animations. Not only mocap sessions (EA again has 3 years of advantage and they are accumulating hundreds of animations from previous years) will save the day. They need to time these animations into the game, into the different variables and engines. For instance, you can have some great "fall to floor" animations, but in order to be credible, you need to know where the impact was registered in order to choose from the different animations which one will suit better. Or you need to have your animations integrated with some kind of procedural routines that let the legs stretch to the ball or move an arm towards the defender, or kick the ball with different variables. All these is a great work to implement. EA has a big experience with this, while Konami has done it for the first time. Should we expect they deliver in one year (and only 2 months to implement it and test it as it seems by the official mocap sessions and the builds distributed recently) what EA has been working on for 3 years?

- Logic: That's everything related to logic functions in the game, such as substitutions, application of rules, fatigue, stats... and cheats. In this department, I don't think either game has any advantage. They're pretty even. One game does some things better than the other and viceversa.

- On-line: Few words need to be put here. Konami has no credit. That doesn't mean they won't pull it out. Simply that the major failures in the last years are ridiculous. I don't know of any sports game with a worst online than pes. They need to work HARD on it. And again, will they be able to do it in just one year?

At the end, there's something appaling: Konami has been lazy and disoriented the last 3 or 4 years and now they're paying the price. It's possible to have faith in pes 2010? Of course. I have. But very very little. Because they need to "recover" 3 years of work, and these processes are very time-consuming and set on a trial-error base.

It doesn't matter if you put 200 or 400 people to work on it. In one year there's a limit on what you can develop properly. And Konami won't suddenly surprise everyone implementing everything wrote in this post. It's simply humanly not possible to do it in only one year.

Nobody believes they have been working on pes 2010 for some years. Nuts!

Would I like pes 2010 to be a good game? Of course!
Can it be a good game? We will see.
Can it be better than Fifa in all the things listed here? Nuts!
That means Fifa is the best game? Fifa has its major flaws, but it's a far more deep game right now. If they continue to develop at the rate they're doing, it will be difficult to be caught by PES in the near future. But that doesn't mean everybody will like Fifa more than PES. If you look for a quick action football game, maybe PEs is excellent for you. I have no problem with this. Everyone's entitled to his opinion.

But from an objective point of view, most of the things Fifa does good in order to achieve the sense of "simulation" cannot be matched by pes in one or two years.
Click to expand...

drekkard, nice post but it should be in the PES2010 News & Rumours thread, no?...
 
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