FIFA 10

winston said:
super-fast, instantaeous reactions, pixel-perfect passes, wins every single tackle. And your guy suffers those endless stumbling animations, speed cheats, response cheats, biased refs, etc.
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hitmanuk said:
I'm sorry but the only utter thing garbage is the points above. I'm playing on full manual or legendary and see no cheat or super fast AI. I have also seen many time the AI miss place a pass.

Maybe this doesnt apply to you or maybe it does but it seems the people who are moaning about the game are the assisted players who are trying to duplicate their FIFA 09 tactics of charging through the midfield or down the lines.
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romagnoli said:
Sounds great, can I have your copy please?

I don't think the AI cheats as much as other people do (except in the last 10 minutes when it becomes utterly ludicrous for no reason whatsoever, even when they are in the lead). The reaction times it has are absurd though. I've seen so many deflections being hit instantly into the back of the net before I have time to even process, as a human, what has happened.

I think the CPU is actually being perfectly fair when Burnley reserves pass it around like Barcelona for most of the match. It's using assisted because that's what it was coded to do. The problem is with the game.

Oh, and comments like the last sentence of yours help and impress no-one. The point is exactly that this game DOES encourage FIFA 09 gameplay over that you'd expect from a real match.
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Until somebody shows me some video of these CPU cheats, I'm forced to agree with HitmanUK on this one. I've never noticed any cheating and I've played a lot of MM.

One bit of advice if you are experiencing lower teams passing all around you is to press better. I don't mean holding the press button all game, I mean switching your tactics and formation to take away space from the CPU team. That's somewhat of the challenge of the MM mode, (just like real life) is adapting tactics to that of your opponent. I promise if you take the effort to more fully manage your team and make tactical changes based on what the CPU did against you that was effective, you will correct some of what you call "cheating".

Seriously, I'd like to see some video of the CPU cheating just to know what you guys are talking about.
 
Eaton - that shouldn't be the solution. You shouldn't have to press hard against lower teams in order to stop them passing with the technique and precision of Barcelona. In fact you should be able to afford to relax against lower teams because they are more likely to make mistakes, so you don't have to be as tight to them. It should be the bigger teams where you have to look at pressing them into errors, and even then you should have to choose between that and holding your team's shape as two legitimate defensive tactics.

Have to laugh at this from the PES threads. Seems like no football game is safe from bugs this year.

YouTube - Rooney
 
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Wayne is just doing :CALM:

romagnoli said:
I've seen so many deflections being hit instantly into the back of the net before I have time to even process, as a human, what has happened.
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A shot was deflected, fell conveniently to their attacker, and he stuck it home first time? You got an unlucky bounce, that's football.

What Eaton says makes sense to me. If the other team are up for it and giving you a challenge, come up with ways to counteract it rather than feeling hard done by. Surely that's what the game is about, being tested and inventing ways to beat it.
 
romagnoli said:
Eaton - that shouldn't be the solution. You shouldn't have to press hard against lower teams in order to stop them passing with the technique and precision of Barcelona. In fact you should be able to afford to relax against lower teams because they are more likely to make mistakes, so you don't have to be as tight to them. It should be the bigger teams where you have to look at pressing them into errors, and even then you should have to choose between that and holding your team's shape as two legitimate defensive tactics.

Have to laugh at this from the PES threads. Seems like no football game is safe from bugs this year.

YouTube - Rooney
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Well I think in reality where u see the difference between the top sides and the lower sides is when they are put under pressure. Most teams should be able to pass and keep the ball with no pressure. The technique comes into play when you get less time on the ball and have to move the ball quickly but also be accurate. Unfortuantly the game doesnt reflect that factor yet and to be honest I think it would be something hard to implement.

However I would agree in the game even if u are prepared to sit off the lower sides they still should give the ball away a lot more than the better sides.
 
nerf said:
Wayne is just doing :CALM:


A shot was deflected, fell conveniently to their attacker, and he stuck it home first time? You got an unlucky bounce, that's football.

What Eaton says makes sense to me. If the other team are up for it and giving you a challenge, come up with ways to counteract it rather than feeling hard done by. Surely that's what the game is about, being tested and inventing ways to beat it.
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The problem is a clearance or deflection 70-80% of the time favours the CPU, but i'll explain why.

It could be down to 2 things that make us think it's scripted to do that.

1) Our own teamate AI is far less intelligent when we aren't controlling them, and this means they react to where the ball is going a lot slower than the CPU does and they never close down in midfield unless you're controlling them.

2) The CPU has an advantage as it knows where the ball is going and can always position itself to get there before, thus creating the illusion of cheating especially on harder difficulty levels.

What needs to happen is.

1)Our teammate AI should scale with the difficulty level which will make them closedown a bit quicker and make intelligent runs without us having to trigger it.

2)The CPU AI needs it's reaction time to vary more when there is a loose ball, it's far too clairvoyant for it to be realistic.

If you watch how the CPU plays on legendary or world class they make decent runs and do what our own teamates just don't do.

If those elements were to happen they would have perfect gameplay in my opinion, but like every year they fall short.
 
NACK22 said:
1)Our teammate AI should scale with the difficulty level which will make them closedown a bit quicker and make intelligent runs without us having to trigger it.

If you watch how the CPU plays on legendary or world class they make decent runs and do what our own teamates just don't do.
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Personally, I still think this falls into the 'all in your head' category. Maybe you can adjust your Custom Tactics to encourage the kind of runs you want to see.

Exhibit A: http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/10527384
Pause this at the start, identify the right-sided attacker, and watch him make a nice run from right to left to split the two centre backs. I didn't tell him to do that, other than the formation instruction High (blue) for attacking work-rate.

Exhibit B: http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/10446497
Again, pause this at the start and identify the central midfielder - he's the untucked blue/red shirt just to the right of the yellow-shirted ref. Then, as the move develops (perhaps significantly, the moment where we progress from the Build Up phase to the Chance Creation phase, i.e. the attacking third), watch the lovely curved forward run he makes to get into the shooting position from which he scores.

Now restart that same video and pause it on the first frame to identify the left midfielder (nearest the green Football For Hope hoarding). When the left back has the ball, he helpfully bends his run outwards looking for a short pass down the touchline. It doesn't come, so when the ball transitions to the defensive midfielder instead, the left midfielder changes his run again to try to exploit space behind the fullback, looking for a chip over the top. Again it doesn't come and he's about to move offside, so he's forced to hold there. He never touches the ball in the move but twice he tried to give me options.

The only one who wasn't trying to make himself available was my right midfielder. He's dropped next week ;)

I see no evidence of an unfair disparity in teammate AI between the human-controlled team and the CPU team. Their movements are directed by formation settings, custom tactics and player attributes. These are all available to you just as much as the CPU.
 
NACK22 said:
The problem is a clearance or deflection 70-80% of the time favours the CPU, but i'll explain why.

It could be down to 2 things that make us think it's scripted to do that.

1) Our own teamate AI is far less intelligent when we aren't controlling them, and this means they react to where the ball is going a lot slower than the CPU does and they never close down in midfield unless you're controlling them.

2) The CPU has an advantage as it knows where the ball is going and can always position itself to get there before, thus creating the illusion of cheating especially on harder difficulty levels.

What needs to happen is.

1)Our teammate AI should scale with the difficulty level which will make them closedown a bit quicker and make intelligent runs without us having to trigger it.

2)The CPU AI needs it's reaction time to vary more when there is a loose ball, it's far too clairvoyant for it to be realistic.

If you watch how the CPU plays on legendary or world class they make decent runs and do what our own teamates just don't do.

If those elements were to happen they would have perfect gameplay in my opinion, but like every year they fall short.
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This is what they really need to work on for 11, the AI are the same when your on the ball their reaction time to what you do needs to be sorted too, as I said before there all Darren Browns
and know what your going to do before you have chance to do it... :P
 
nerf said:
I see no evidence of an unfair disparity in teammate AI between the human-controlled team and the CPU team. Their movements are directed by formation settings, custom tactics and player attributes. These are all available to you just as much as the CPU.
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You must agree on the rebound and clearance situation, it's a good 90%+ direct to the AI, this takes away the feeling of a totally free ball in the game for me...
 
The jostle system is pretty good, but I hate the fact that as soon as you enter the penalty area (while attacking)your players suddenly turn into jelly and can't out-muscle the weakest player on the pitch. fucking annoying and predictable.
 
nerf said:
Personally, I still think this falls into the 'all in your head' category. Maybe you can adjust your Custom Tactics to encourage the kind of runs you want to see.

Exhibit A: http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/10527384
Pause this at the start, identify the right-sided attacker, and watch him make a nice run from right to left to split the two centre backs. I didn't tell him to do that, other than the formation instruction High (blue) for attacking work-rate.

Exhibit B: http://www.easportsfootball.co.uk/media/play/video/10446497
Again, pause this at the start and identify the central midfielder - he's the untucked blue/red shirt just to the right of the yellow-shirted ref. Then, as the move develops (perhaps significantly, the moment where we progress from the Build Up phase to the Chance Creation phase, i.e. the attacking third), watch the lovely curved forward run he makes to get into the shooting position from which he scores.

Now restart that same video and pause it on the first frame to identify the left midfielder (nearest the green Football For Hope hoarding). When the left back has the ball, he helpfully bends his run outwards looking for a short pass down the touchline. It doesn't come, so when the ball transitions to the defensive midfielder instead, the left midfielder changes his run again to try to exploit space behind the fullback, looking for a chip over the top. Again it doesn't come and he's about to move offside, so he's forced to hold there. He never touches the ball in the move but twice he tried to give me options.

The only one who wasn't trying to make himself available was my right midfielder. He's dropped next week ;)

I see no evidence of an unfair disparity in teammate AI between the human-controlled team and the CPU team. Their movements are directed by formation settings, custom tactics and player attributes. These are all available to you just as much as the CPU.
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Ok Mr Condescending.

How about you try e.g Arsenal(You) vs Arsenal (CPU), same tactics and watch the difference in AI from your teammates to the CPU controlled ones.

Think you'll find there's a huge gap.
 
nerf said:
Wayne is just doing :CALM:


A shot was deflected, fell conveniently to their attacker, and he stuck it home first time? You got an unlucky bounce, that's football.

What Eaton says makes sense to me. If the other team are up for it and giving you a challenge, come up with ways to counteract it rather than feeling hard done by. Surely that's what the game is about, being tested and inventing ways to beat it.
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You miss the point completely. Their striker gets a perfect shot away before a human being would have time to even begin the reflex of hammering the shoot button. Given that FIFA doesn't just shoot the millisecond you let go of square, it means the CPU actually had time to spare in getting the shooting instruction across. Next time it happens I'll save a video in real time just to show how instant the reactions are. Needless to say, strikers with sub microseconds reactions plus defenders who will sometimes chest the ball no matter how many times or when you hit square is a very potent goal source for the AI at the moment.

Your second part is also missing the point - I can only assume you've not been playing the game extensively, or are still in the apologist stage we were mostly in before further play revealed that these issues don't evaporate with further play. There should clearly be a different test when playing Burnley reserves and Barcelona. However, other than differences in pace and physicality, there mostly isn't. You shouldn't need to push your players right up onto Accrington Stanley in order to stop them racking up ludicrous passing counts and hitting the mark from 60 yards. That's the sort of tactic reserved for playing against Italian sides who aren't used to less time on the ball.
 
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This is quite clearly the best Fifa and football game ever made.

Yes pes years ago was grand, but it doesnt stand up to Fifa.

Of course ive been disappointed in the a.i custom tactics which as Chris mentioned were all set the same, so after a load of tweaking and customising the game now plays better. When i face SToke they are aggressive long ball merchants who defend deep. When i play Burnley they are quite attacking but weak at the back.

Its the little things. The 360 dribbling has come into its own now. The other day playing as Torres, the close control dribbling as i bounced off several defenders but kept my footing was unreal. I also saw Rooney hit a lovely shot along the ground while falling through the legs of my defender into the far corner past a stunned standing keeper.

This game is simply awesome.

The only niggles i have are these. i think the header/chesting is a bit off and at times i chest rather than head, and its sometimes annoying when a player takes a rocket ball down on his chest. The pitches need to be a little bigger i reckon. It may be my camera angle but for the speed the pitches need to be 10% bigger.

Also sometimes the a.i try to close a game out by running to the corner which annoys me because at times they get in good positions in the box only to pass the ball backwards.

But these are minor.

The deflections, blocks, physical, traps, dribbling, stumbles and ball physics are simply amazing.
 
^ Agreed.

I really think we're being far too finicky about several issues. Ok, some of them are a f*cking pain in the arse, and should never have made it past playtesting and beta stage in the first place, but are we perhaps expecting too much from what is, in reality, a computer game?
I mean, as an example, before the game was even released, we had numerous complaints about the nets. The nets; string which is used to keep the ball from hitting the crowd and an indication that a goal has been scored should the string move when the ball hits it. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but you can clearly see when the ball hits this fabled net in Fifa. By which point, you're off doing one of your 100+ celebrations or just cancelling out to return to the centre for kickoff. Does it really matter that much? Actually, it probably does to a few of you - as I've noticed there are a hell of a lot of anal detailers knocking around :

"Perfection needed and guaranteed, or I'm out" [/Bannatyne]

Seriously though, it's a break away from reality; It's the illusion that you are one of those players or the coach tinkering with the tactics. Ultimately, it's all harmless escapism at it's very finest, and that it is - at £24.99 or thereabouts, even with the niggles and bugs, it's still by far the best football game I've ever played. The depth is incredible.

True, the Manager Mode is a kick in the sack, but at least some of the spoils have been rectified to a degree. Things have come a long, long way since International Superstar Soccer and Super Soccer on the SNES. Graphically they've progressed enormously since Sensible Soccer and Kick Off on the Amiga. Bit by bit, they're getting there and sooner or later there'll be a football game that will please almost everybody. Not us all, of course, as the anal-bots will no doubt still claim the nets aren't perfect, but certainly the majority of us will be happy. When that time comes, it will be beautiful. Until then, I'll continue with Fifa 2010. Or Forza 3. Or Fallout 3. Or Modern Warfare 2. Or I may even venture outside and kick a football around. Into proper nets. Oh, it's on.

Fifa 2010. It's just a game. Flawed? Perhaps. But still the best available? I'd say so.
 
Tbh I think the amount of negativity is in direct relation to the false promotion. So many aspects were promised to be improved yet have been found not to, or have gotten even worse.

It's odd really, as I really enjoyed the MM in 09, despite the lack of injuries, weather variation and general monotamy of the mode. This year we have been promised much with some of it delivered, some of it causing more problems and some just being plain broken. I said beforehand that if they only added the weather and longer injuries MM would have been great for me. It could have been kept really simple, afterall the lack of longterm injuries was just a bug in 09, it actually was present.

Instead they seemed to have gone overboard; added stuff that doesn't work, replaced fixes with other problems and have actually decreased injuries. That's what is so annoying, the core problems should have been easy to adress but they haven't even managed to do that whilst causing more problems in the proces. That is really unacceptable. I hope the US reviews follow 1up's lead and really grill them, I guess that will be our only hope for another patch.
 
TikTikTikTikTik said:
Tbh I think the amount of negativity is in direct relation to the false promotion. So many aspects were promised to be improved yet have been found not to, or have gotten even worse.
It's odd really, as I really enjoyed the MM in 09, despite the lack of injuries, weather variation and general monotamy of the mode. This year we have been promised much with some of it delivered, some of it causing more problems and some just being plain broken. I said beforehand that if they only added the weather and longer injuries MM would have been great for me. It could have been kept really simple, afterall the lack of longterm injuries was just a bug in 09, it actually was present.

Instead they seemed to have gone overboard; added stuff that doesn't work, replaced fixes with other problems and have actually decreased injuries. That's what is so annoying, the core problems should have been easy to adress but they haven't even managed to do that whilst causing more problems in the proces. That is really unacceptable. I hope the US reviews follow 1up's lead and really grill them, I guess that will be our only hope for another patch.
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That's a fair point, and something I never really adhered to in my post.
 
NACK22 said:
Ok Mr Condescending.

How about you try e.g Arsenal(You) vs Arsenal (CPU), same tactics and watch the difference in AI from your teammates to the CPU controlled ones.

Think you'll find there's a huge gap.
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I apologise if I came over as condescending, it's difficult to get tone across in text. Just trying to present a counter argument, one I wanted to support with clear examples.

And I disagree, I don't think I will find that there's any discernible gap at all. Personally it's not something I've noticed in over 800 matches of FIFA 09 and about 30 or so of FIFA 10.

romagnoli said:
Next time it happens I'll save a video in real time just to show how instant the reactions are.
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By all means feel free. It's always better, for us and for EA themselves, if people can provide clear examples of the things they complain about. To make a general, non-specific point, there's often a habit of exaggeration in these sorts of discussions that can serve to undermine and water down whatever point is being made.

I think what I'd say on this particular issue is that it is a processing unit and I'm a human being. If I stick it on the highest difficulty level then I guess I'm going to accept that it'll have an advantage here and there (like processing information more quickly), just like I will elsewhere. Ergo I'm happy to let things like that slide and not worry about it for a millisecond, no pun intended.

In fact I've now got the fun challenge of having to craft an equaliser, so game on. And in addition to that, I'll now see if there's a tactical method by which I might minimise the number of times I'm allowing the ball to end up bouncing around my penalty area. This is part of the fun, isn't it?

romagnoli said:
There should clearly be a different test when playing Burnley reserves and Barcelona. However, other than differences in pace and physicality, there mostly isn't..
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Yes, there should be a different test. If you are saying that there is not enough individuality to each player and team, then I think you're right and most already agree on that.

However, personally speaking, I want to be challenged by the CPU in each game I play. If Burnley are giving me a hard time and completing a lot of their passes, then all the better. Ideally they will give me a hard time in a very notably different style to Barca, but hopefully I can orchestrate that by editing Custom Tactics.

I'm not saying you're wrong in any way nor am I saying that it couldn't be improved, I think all I'm trying to explain is a philosophical difference.
 
The things i'm most annoyed about are the things which were advertised as improvements/fixes and just aren't...
The prime example being Manager Mode which has actually gotten worse (in 09 you could make it somewhat realistic by setting "rules" for yourself).
Another being the giant Virtual Pros supposedly being slow and not very agile... what they didn't mention is that you get slow midget 33 rated centre backs who make these "slow" giants seem like Ronaldo.
Another being the addition of snow... what they didn't mention was that you have to play it with a white ball.
Another being gameface... what they didn't mention was that it only does the bottom half of the face and a lot of the time you end up with asian eyes and the wrong skin tone.

I could go on... they falsely promoted things which are actually fucked up.
 
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