English Premier League thread

Well the fickleness of fans comes into play.

If their own player cheats to gain an advantage. Salute that man. If a member of the opposition does it , burn him and crucify him at the stake.

The managers certainly aren't going to tell their players not to simulate as their jobs might depend on a fall here or there and neither are the players.

It is up to the authorities to institute retrospective punishment. Heavy fines , match bans and point deductions.

It would soon stop this ever growing disease of cheating in the game. And if a player has been unfairly maligned or carded then the same technology can be used to clear him of the penalty.

This issue has been done to death for several seasons now yet the powers that be still are unwilling to take any action. Cheating is a real blight on the game and Young is a prime example.

Having got away with it last week he carries on in the same tradition. Had he been fined heavily or received a match ban then I suspect his behaviour would have been different.
 
Football fan are fickle no doubt - I wonder how many City fans are now re-buying their Carlos Tevez shirts after his hat trick?
In the same manner, some United fans will say they hate to see Young doing that, but will shrug it off and say that other players do the same and point to the next man.
Some will have different opinions on cheating when it comes to others and their own team. I for one don't condone any sort of cheating. I wasn't happy to see Eduardo winning that penalty against Celtic for instance... But I wanted to see all cases treated equally. There's a clear difference in treatment. While Eduardo got punished and crucified by the media, others don't. I'm not focusing on United here in this case. I'm sure that just by being English - especially if you play for the National Team - does the trick for you to get away with it.

Young is a renowned diver, one of the greatest in England. I had spotted him since his Villa times, many years ago.

I saw only video footage of him against Villa this weekend. I didn't see the whole match.
But I can tell from the video replays I saw. It was a spectacular dive. I'm sure beachryan and others will disagree with me, we're all fans here after all. We tend to be biased.

But really, inevitable contact?? A guy that agile, who was dribbling and weaving with ease past Villa defenders suddenly "lost" all his ability to dodge a defender as soon as he stepped inside the box. It was disgraceful, pathetic, exaggerated, and totally unnecessary. United won 4-0. It was the 1st goal, but I still think they would have found the breakthrough and still win this easily. So what that dive does is steal the headlines, yes, and even take some of the brilliance out of United's victory. Unfortunately.

The focus of headlines will be on Young's dive, and rightly so. In Chelsea's case, it was a human mistake (at least I like to think so) that happened from the ref and linesman. They couldn't tell if the ball went in, whilst Chelsea and Tottenham players were focused on playing the game fairly.

On the other hand, with Young, it is the ill intentioned manner of his actions that spoils the game. It's a player consciously inducing a referee to a mistake. So there you go. I don't like Chelsea, but I totally agree if the headlines focus on Ash-lay Young instead of Chelsea's illegal goal. The need for goal line technology is sufficiently covered by the media. On the other hand, diving (especially by English National Team members who play for the biggest clubs), needs to be brought to the spotlight. That I would like to see for a change.
 
That was a WORLD class dive by Ashley Young. Well done lad. Magnificently done!

He used the defender's leg to trip himself and fall down to get a key penalty 7 minutes in the game. I watched the match live.

The poor defender didn't even EXTEND his leg, he was just standing there. There's nothing he could've done. But the clever Young used his leg to fabricate a fall to the ground I must admit VERY CLEVERLY and smartly (as I see sadly increasing done by smart attackers all around Europe not just him) to get a BS penalty call.

Nani dives more than he does but Ashley is a much BETTER diver :LOL:

When he does it, he regularly fools referees as he's almost perfected the art of diving! I'm sure he's very proud. lol
Shameful that he did to his old club as well 7 minutes in putting them on the back foot!
 
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Nani hasn't dived regularly since about 2009/10. Young's been at it for years since his Villa days and even been booked for simulation at international level.
 
Wow, I just don't get it on this one. Against QPR - massive dive. Against Villa - there was enough contact to put him off balance. He definitely exaggerated the fall, but if he stays on his feet and stumbles the chance is gone. As a result of a foul by the defender.

I could come up with countless examples from any team you choose of players doing worse than that - diving with less contact. And yet, this one has opinions all over the place, is being discussed to death and so forth. Why?

Why is it when he did this at Villa no one cared? Why is it only now, when United are closing in a title is this back page news? Hrm...

Oh and if RVP doesn't win the PFA player of the year I despair about football even more. Far and away the best, most influential player in the league this season. And I love Oxlaide-Chamberlain being nominated despite not playing 90 minutes in a single match, and only making 5 league appearances. God bless the hype machine.
 
I cared for it when he did it at Villa too and always condemned him for it.

And in a way yesterday I was happy because Villa supporters had been turning a blind eye to his diving for years when it was in their advantage of course but finally yesterday it bit them in the ass and now they know how other teams feel.

As for it being a foul, I completely disagree. Enough contact? Sure, there was only one reason there was contact though, it's the fact that Young cleverly tripped himself over the defender's leg. What's he gonna do? become invisible? The guy didn't even extend his leg to try to tackle the ball or catch Young's foot. He was back stracking and standing there and he very cleverly tripped himself over the guy's leg as I know how to do as well and yet in an instant second without replay for referee LOOKS very real as he sees a guy at big speed going down and there is contact. So the contact is there but it's because YOUNG made that contact happen! It's not a foul, the poor defender did nothing wrong.

He dived last week against QPR and he did so again this week. Both are bad, one worse than the other and both should be punished and not encouraged or defended.
 
PLF said:
I cared for it when he did it at Villa too and always condemned him for it.

And in a way yesterday I was happy because Villa supporters had been turning a blind eye to his diving for years when it was in their advantage of course but finally yesterday it bit them in the ass and now they know how other teams feel.

As for it being a foul, I completely disagree. Enough contact? Sure, there was only one reason there was contact though, it's the fact that Young cleverly tripped himself over the defender's leg. What's he gonna do? become invisible? The guy didn't even extend his leg to try to tackle the ball or catch Young's foot. He was back stracking and standing there and he very cleverly tripped himself over the guy's leg as I know how to do as well and yet in an instant second without replay for referee LOOKS very real as he sees a guy at big speed going down and there is contact. So the contact is there but it's because YOUNG made that contact happen! It's not a foul, the poor defender did nothing wrong.

He dived last week against QPR and he did so again this week. Both are bad, one worse than the other and both should be punished and not encouraged or defended.
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Fair enough, guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The defender tries to pull his foot back but doesn't get it out of the way in time to avoid contact. Young then makes a meal of the fall, but it's still a foul for me.

My point remains about the coverage. As I said in the United thread - later in the match Shay Given got out run to a ball outside the box with Danny Welbeck, Given actively punches the ball away. Outside the box. Mentions of this in the press/ around here? None. That was concious, pre-mediated, deliberate cheating, but not a peep.
 
Well embellishment is almost on a par with diving. There is no need for it.

It only confuses the already overworked officials more who do not have technological aids to help them.

As for Young he did dive when he was at Watford. Not often but I remember him being clapped when he did so against arch rivals Luton Town.

I for one did not clap. Ferguson takes a dim view of this I am sure as he did when Ronaldo turned up at Old Trafford and I'm pretty sure he will speak to him.

Furthermore the reputation he accrues will count against him in future decisions as di Maria has found out.

As for the Player of the Year Awards. Rooney will likely take it if Manchester United win the division. Young player. Oxlade-Chamberlain ? Hasn't played enough. Bale too inconsistent. Aguero 'young ?'. He's been playing first team football since he was sixteen.
 
beachryan said:
Why is it when he did this at Villa no one cared? Why is it only now, when United are closing in a title is this back page news? Hrm...
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I think you just answered your own question without realising. Villa never challenged for titles, whereas United are always on the spotlight. At Man United Young's diving would always be under much more scrutiny anyway.

But the underlying fact has always been there. Ashley Young was, already at Villa, one of the biggest divers in English football.

In that particular dive I'll go as far as saying there was almost no contact at all. It was all provoked by Young and as he takes a leap off the ground you can see in a closer shot how his left foot is still going forward before he actually falls to the ground.

As for Ferguson's take on the incident, I haven't heard it and wouldn't waste my time doing so. Managers like to protect their side but he goes way overboard beyond the boundaries of logic and unquestionable evidence. I still remember to this day in August 2009, Arsenal away at Old Trafford, and there was a two-footed lunge by Fletcher on Arshavin, he found nothing of the ball and completely swept the Russian off the ground. No penalty was given, Arshavin was perhaps too puzzled to even complain he was just standing still looking at the ref. And Ferguson's words after the match: "Never a penalty" :LOL:
 
Rentboy said:
I think you just answered your own question without realising. Villa never challenged for titles, whereas United are always on the spotlight. At Man United Young's diving would always be under much more scrutiny anyway.

But the underlying fact has always been there. Ashley Young was, already at Villa, one of the biggest divers in English football.

In that particular dive I'll go as far as saying there was almost no contact at all. It was all provoked by Young and as he takes a leap off the ground you can see in a closer shot how his left foot is still going forward before he actually falls to the ground.

As for Ferguson's take on the incident, I haven't heard it and wouldn't waste my time doing so. Managers like to protect their side but he goes way overboard beyond the boundaries of logic and unquestionable evidence. I still remember to this day in August 2009, Arsenal away at Old Trafford, and there was a two-footed lunge by Fletcher on Arshavin, he found nothing of the ball and completely swept the Russian off the ground. No penalty was given, Arshavin was perhaps too puzzled to even complain he was just standing still looking at the ref. And Ferguson's words after the match: "Never a penalty" :LOL:
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Ferguson criticised Young and said he needs to stop doing it.
 
I'd like to see that one. To be fair to Ferguson, he's been more reasonable this season, he even conceded that Evra shouldn't have done that (provocations to Suarez after the final whistle).

But that article by Neville posted here some time ago does come to mind, as in what do the managers really say to their players behind the scenes?

Well regardless of what Ferguson said on TV or in the dressing room, Young will not stop until he starts getting booked each time he does that. Sadly what he got so far was just reward.
 
Big win for Wigan today. Now 5 points clear of relegation.

I can still see them mess things up and lose against much lesser teams and go down though having now beaten United and Arsenal back to back.

They never make things easy for themselves and the last 4-5 games won't be easy for them either. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Wolves are I think gone, Blackburn probably too. Who will be the other team? QPR? Bolton? Or Wigan still perhaps? I can see Bolton going down though I have much sympathy for them and Owen Coyle.
 
he said it " Young is a diver ,but not a cheat." Oh dear, Weeks ago he said "Suarez is a diver n a cheat" ...Oh bother! (tinted )
 
Short list for the PFA player of the year:

Silva, Aguero, Joe Hart, Rooney, Van Parsie and Parker.

Joe Hart ??? Come on. For me he is the weak link of City's team. He is not an exceptional goal keeper. Aguero played reasonably well but not consistent enough to be on that short list. Not sure about Parker too. Silva was fantastic in the first half of the season, but the last months (apart from the Norwich match) he was out of shape because Mancini played him too much.

It's between Rooney and Van Persie to win it.

Some players who might have been short listed too:

Kompany (the most important City player)
Dempsey (only Rooney and Van Persie scored more than him in 2012)
Sigurdsson (he was also brilliant for a half season)
Mata
Modric (surely he was more the outstanding player than Parker)
Song
Valencia
Dembele (maybe i'm being chauvinistic here, but he is a brilliant player at times).

And what about the Newcastle players: surely Tim Krul could be short listed if Hart was. Cabaye, Ba and Papis Cissé have also been brilliant.

There can be no discussion that Van Persie and Rooney are a cut above the rest, but that short list is a strange one.

Best young player: Paul Scholes.


Anyway, football is a team sport, so individual awards are a litle bit silly...but somehow we all seem to care about individual performances and rankings.
 
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Absolutely agree with you on Dembele.

I've watched him closely over the last few years and he is a tremendous player.

Really hope he gets a big move soon. He's more than ready to step up.

Newcastle forwards have done great too along with Krul.

Speaking of the Toon, gives me an excuse to link a video to my favorite player ever. The Original Messi YouTube - Peter Beardsley Career Compilation
 
Yeah, Beardsley was great...
I'm glad Newcastle are back up there, i remember the team with Philip Albert, they played smashing football at times...with a better manager they should have won the title. At one point they were 12 points clear, but they still lost the title to United (i was a big United fan at the time, but even i had sympathy for that Newcastle team, i remember they absolutely thrashed Man Utd...a much better team than the Blackburn team that did win the title).

I rated Keegan very high as a player, but IMO he is overrated as a manager.
 
gerd said:
Short list for the PFA player of the year:

Silva, Aguero, Joe Hart, Rooney, Van Parsie and Parker.

Joe Hart ??? Come on. For me he is the weak link of City's team. He is not an exceptional goal keeper. Aguero played reasonably well but not consistent enough to be on that short list. Not sure about Parker too. Silva was fantastic in the first half of the season, but the last months (apart from the Norwich match) he was out of shape because Mancini played him too much.
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I've been thinking the same thing watching him recently. When City were playing well he looked great because he wasn't being asked much.
 
The original Messi is Garrincha.

As for Hart he has been excellent and he is not overrated. I wouldn't mind having him as first choice for Argentina.

When called upon he had pulled out the saves which requires great concentration when you do have the ball for the majority of the game.

Then again a goalkeepers performance is really as a unit with his defence and defensive midfield. Not even the best keeper with an appalling set of defenders can save his side for long. Hence Kompany's absence at times has been crucial and the presence of Tiote and surprisingly for me Colocinni is also crucial.

Hart, Krul and al Habsi are for me the three best keepers this season.

Modric has faded badly and similar accusations can be levelled at several players. About Aguero everytime he has played he has performed. His non contributions have coincided when he was just simply injured.
 
Albiceleste,

I agree with you on Aguero, but not on Hart. To me Krul, Vorm, al Habsi and Cech were outstanding. De Gea will be the best in the future he has made a massive progress...

De Gea, the Swiss keeper of Basel, Courtois and Neuer are the GK's of the future.
 
Gerd I agree about Courtois, Sommer and de Gea. I also like ter Steegen.

I'd side with Milanista about Hart. Alongside Rooney he will be the only other world class player in the England squad. He also is still young for a keeper with plenty of time to improve further.
 
Robin wont win it....Rooney will or any other Brit playing in the summer Euro . It makes sense to build up confidence n lift the morale. I remember Milner winning it when Fabregas played his best season in England. Parker won it last year a joke imo yes a good player but so is Danny Mills.
 
Not a chance Rooney will win it, his goal tally is good, but his performances haven't been consistently good. RVP will win the main award and Aguero will win the young player award.

To be honest the list itself is very questionable.
 
RvP should win it but yeah that shortlist isn't very good.

Cabaye and Demba Ba should be on that list.
 
Those lists are always a joke.

It should be RVP and Aguero without a doubt. No idea what Kompany and Evans did to their fellow pros, but they should be on the POY/ YPOY respectively.

As for doubting Hart - he's earned his team more points than Silva imo. Excellent keeper, England will really rely on him in the summer.
 
I agree. Joe Hart isn't the greatest right now but he's certainly not over-rated and he's still very young for a keeper and can and will further improve.

He's actually one of England's best players and it's good that they have a keeper they can rely on for years to come and provide stability at the back.

As for this award I think Silva, Aguero and many players have shown brilliantly at times but the most 'consistent' player who's played best in MOST round of matches should win the award and Robin's been definitely the most consistent among all of them. So for me, he should win it this year.
 
I hate to say it, but I have found myself agreeing with Neville on alot of things. I am starting to respect him as a pundit.
 
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