English Premier League thread

Punishments in PL aren't important enough, it's the 4th injury like this since the start of the season, something has to be done. When you see Shawcross had 3 matches of suspension for his tackle on Ramsey, something is definitly wrong
 
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And didn't Shawcross did it again against Fullham in the cup in injury time leading 2-0 (completely without valuable reason). I'm not sure if it was him, but the victim was Dembelé...

If that was Shawcross again he's a recidivist and should have a long ban, also considering the circumstances of that useless tackle.
 
That was Andy Wilkinson gerd, not Shawcross.

Wilkinson is the guy that spent an entire game (until he was sent off) kicking Ronaldo a few years ago, yet afterwards the media focus was on Ronaldo for flicking a heel at him in retaliation whilst on the floor. That says it all about the problem, people wanted to see Ronaldo sent off more than they wanted to see that he'd been kicked and hacked all game by someone not even trying to play football.
 
Thanks jumbo.
IMO there is something wrong with Stoke's playing style. The long throws of Delap, that is being clever.
But they are playing too agressive. I know there is a huge gap between teams like Stoke, Blackbunrn and the big teams. But this does not justify this agressivity...
 
Aggressiveness or aggression Gerd. ;)

And yah I kinda agree with you but I'm sure the likes of Mick McCarthy, Big Sam and Tony Pulis don't!

And I have to think they know more than we do about what it takes to beat some of these clubs with much more skillful , expensive players.

So I also see their point of view.
 
The stupid tackles need to be eradicated.

One of the easiest ways to do it, is to get rid of the ridiculous rule that if the ref has seen an incident then no action can be taken?! it is the most stupid thing ever.

If a player does a horrible challenge and it is seen to be so, he should be punished and punished more than 3 games. No matter if the ref saw it and gave him a card or not.

If a team is being over aggressive, say more than one player is going crazy, then fine the manager a good sum of money, so they make sure their teams aren't told to go out and hurt people. (I know this will never happen and is far fetched...but still)

I do think the managers of these teams have a lot to answer for. Allardyce is renowned for the way his teams play, no matter how much he denies it, or justifies it.

When all this stuff about Shawcross happened with Ramsey, Pulis was defending him all the way, he 'wasn't that sort of player' but he has injured about 4 players now so far, with big injuries. These attitudes need to be changed.

The funniest thing recently is when Arsene Wenger mentioned how teams like Stoke play and then Stoke threatened him with court etc for saying those things?! utterly ridiculous, if you are going to play that way, at least have the balls to admit the way you play?!

Anyway it definitely needs to be sorted. Bigger fines/suspensions and retrospective punishment for players must be introduced and i hope they do it.
 
it might sound a bit obvious but how about working on the "teaching process"?
i tend to believe that no player ever wants to deliberately hurt anyone on the pitch.
the thing is, a good tackle is 50% timing 50% positioning. a tackle gets dangerous when the defender screws up one of those 2 factors.... at least most of the times (when a defenders goes for a scissor tackle or keeps his feet high or goes for a "hammer feet" tackle, then that's a different story).
timing and positioning are things u learn when your young (i mean very young). i know many of u are probably thinking "come on, theese are professionals, don't u think they were taught how to tackle?". but honestly it seems to me that many premiership defenders didn't have any technical education at all.

for instance i see very often premier league defenders approaching a tackle with both feet on the same line (parallel). this is a very basic mistake..... i'm an amateur (a very crappy amateur, i should add), and yet i learned to keep my feet pointing at different directions when marking.... when i was 14!!!
and through the years, by practicing and playing football with my friends (as all of u guys, i imagine) it became so natural to me too keep my feet in the correct position that now it would be impossible and absolutely unnatural to me to keep my feet in a wrong position.

in serie a u don't get to see as many bad timed tackles as in premier league.... there are obviously a few random bad tackles every now and then, but they occur about once in a season...... and it's not like our punishments for bad tackles are any harsher than the premier league ones.

what i'm trying to say is, if this issue depends by a poor teaching process, then retrospective bans or long term disqualifications won't do nothing.

besides, speaking in general, changing the "only when the ref didn't see" rule would be extremely dangerous as it would allow to overturn basically any referee call.... it would pretty much make the referee itself absolutely useless. i really don't think this is a good idea....... and in any case, good idea or not, that rule won't ever change..... such a change would be even more drastic (and dangerous) than introducing instant replays as a tool to help the ref in real time.... and since the federations don't want to introduce the instant replay challenge, they sure won't ever change the retrospective bans system.

i still remember the first training match i got to play for my high school team (14 years old). at the end of the match i thought i had a great performance as no one managed to go past me. so i turned to the coach and asked him "so how did i do coach?" he told me i was terrible. i replied "but i completely shut the door!" and he told me "yeah but that's because no one who cares about his legs would ever be so crazy to get close to u.... u're a walking health hazard kid! i'm gonna have go back to the basics with u".

like i said i'm an amateur... and despite the teachings and the years of practice, i'm still pretty crappy, but to be honest i think i got better timing and positioning than quite a lot of premiership defenders... something isn't right here.
 
I think you're right. I don't know how it is in the big clubs academies but I definitely didn't get taught how to tackle when I was a kid at any of the teams or school teams I played for.
 
it`s called " Don`t lose your cool" once anger is involve sometime brought by an unfair call by ref or being provoked. Silly thing stir up and someone is on the injury list. I wish it`s as easy as a mental call. I see Nasri he provokes a lot , makes me nervous sometime.
 
lo zio said:
it might sound a bit obvious but how about working on the "teaching process"?
i tend to believe that no player ever wants to deliberately hurt anyone on the pitch.
the thing is, a good tackle is 50% timing 50% positioning. a tackle gets dangerous when the defender screws up one of those 2 factors.... at least most of the times (when a defenders goes for a scissor tackle or keeps his feet high or goes for a "hammer feet" tackle, then that's a different story).
timing and positioning are things u learn when your young (i mean very young). i know many of u are probably thinking "come on, theese are professionals, don't u think they were taught how to tackle?". but honestly it seems to me that many premiership defenders didn't have any technical education at all.

for instance i see very often premier league defenders approaching a tackle with both feet on the same line (parallel). this is a very basic mistake..... i'm an amateur (a very crappy amateur, i should add), and yet i learned to keep my feet pointing at different directions when marking.... when i was 14!!!
and through the years, by practicing and playing football with my friends (as all of u guys, i imagine) it became so natural to me too keep my feet in the correct position that now it would be impossible and absolutely unnatural to me to keep my feet in a wrong position.

in serie a u don't get to see as many bad timed tackles as in premier league.... there are obviously a few random bad tackles every now and then, but they occur about once in a season...... and it's not like our punishments for bad tackles are any harsher than the premier league ones.

what i'm trying to say is, if this issue depends by a poor teaching process, then retrospective bans or long term disqualifications won't do nothing.

besides, speaking in general, changing the "only when the ref didn't see" rule would be extremely dangerous as it would allow to overturn basically any referee call.... it would pretty much make the referee itself absolutely useless. i really don't think this is a good idea....... and in any case, good idea or not, that rule won't ever change..... such a change would be even more drastic (and dangerous) than introducing instant replays as a tool to help the ref in real time.... and since the federations don't want to introduce the instant replay challenge, they sure won't ever change the retrospective bans system.

i still remember the first training match i got to play for my high school team (14 years old). at the end of the match i thought i had a great performance as no one managed to go past me. so i turned to the coach and asked him "so how did i do coach?" he told me i was terrible. i replied "but i completely shut the door!" and he told me "yeah but that's because no one who cares about his legs would ever be so crazy to get close to u.... u're a walking health hazard kid! i'm gonna have go back to the basics with u".

like i said i'm an amateur... and despite the teachings and the years of practice, i'm still pretty crappy, but to be honest i think i got better timing and positioning than quite a lot of premiership defenders... something isn't right here.
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It is a good point and alot of people have mentioned that English/British players in general need to be taught the technical side of the game much more. It is seen as a huge reason why we haven't been successful in World cups/Euros.

I am all for a change of teaching, but that is for the generations to come. Something needs to be done right now.

I really don't see how retrospective punishment can harm the game at all? along with live tv replays during the game with a fourth official? I don't see how these actions can be seen as 'Dangerous'? (alot of people have said that not just Lo Zio)

Retrospective punishment will be for the extreme cases, the ref will still be very much part of the game and 99% of his rulings will be used. The football associations really don't have enough time/money to sit through every decision a ref makes and change them. So I don't see how the referee will become useless?

If a player elbows another player in the face on purpose, but the ref at the time thinks that both players were in the wrong (doesn't see whole incident properly) and gives them both yellow cards. Even if 50,000 people saw it and the cameras, you cant after the match review the evidence and punish the player. Even though the guy assualted the other player, because the ref made a mistake, it can't be overturned? What harm can it do to review it and give a retrospective punishment and a lengthy ban? it is just common sense and justice prevailing. No harm will be done to the sport?

If players are seen to be violent at any point then, no matter when the punishment is dished out, it should be given no matter what.

I to don't believe that a player will delibrately want to injure another player. But I do beleive they will go into challenges recklessly and not think of the consequences. Like a guy going through a red light and smashing into another car and killing the people in the other car. He probably had no criminal record, was a really nice guy. But one time he went through a red light and killed some people. He will get prosecuted for dangerous driving and manslaughter. Just because people don't intend to do things, doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished and held accountable for when they do do things wrong? It should be the same in football imo.

I think there should be retrospective punishment and harsh ones. I think at the moment, it is the only way it will get into the players heads and managers not to play extremely rough and endanger players careers.

Also I agree british players should be trained on the technical aspects of the game a bit more and then eventually it may eradicate the mindset of a large proportion of british players.
 
yeah bobby, i understand you're concerned about "the now", the current situation, and yeah clearely having someone teaching the kids how to tackle is a long term solution..... and that always assuming the techical education of the kids is the problem (that's just a hunch of mine and i can't be sure that's really the problem).

but like i said, if that's the cause of this issue, providing more serious punishments or retrospective bans won't change a thing. if u make a bad tackle just coz no one ever taught u how to do it, then u won't suddenly learn how to properly tackle just coz the federation disqualified u for a long term.
Bobby said:
I really don't see how retrospective punishment can harm the game at all? along with live tv replays during the game with a fourth official? I don't see how these actions can be seen as 'Dangerous'? (alot of people have said that not just Lo Zio)
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really? i thought i was the only one to think that. well first of, let me point out i'm not saying "that is definitely gonna be dangerous"... that's just what i think, my personal opinion. i'm not stating a fact coz no one can tell what could be the consequences of such a big change. that's how i see it anyway.

i learned through my studying\working experience (my line of work has a lot to do with "rules") that a rule is "good" when it doesn't open the field to equivocal situations in any possible scenario.
that means that when u issue a new rule, u don't have just to consider what will be the most common scenario of application of that rule, but any possible scenario, every possible application.... and only if the rule doesn't create equivocal consequences in any of those possible applications, that rule can be safely issued.

now we can picture the most common scenario of application of this rule... we have a referee making a huge mistake, not calling a foul on a reckless tackle.... the federation judge overturns the ref call and calls it a foul, disqualifying the player. it sounds perfect.

but now think of that... how many controversies and debate we witness every week on ref calls? how many coaches complain on a weekly basis about more or less debeatable calls?..... for now all those controversies are just nothing more than harmless arguments....
if u issue such a rule, each of those cases will be brought to the attention of the federation judge, as every coach will claim that was "an extreme case". and all of those cases will have to be decided in 1 week (anything longer than that would compromise the regularity of the league).
and if any of those episodes will be discarded by the federation judge, then the coaches, the media, the fans will start complaining about that...... "why our episode wasn't considered while other similar cases were? what criteria the judge followed? are we sure this judge is fair?" can u imagine how many conspiracy theories would blow the league each and every week? the whole situation would just get out of control.
Bobby said:
Retrospective punishment will be for the extreme cases, the ref will still be very much part of the game and 99% of his rulings will be used. The football associations really don't have enough time/money to sit through every decision a ref makes and change them. So I don't see how the referee will become useless?
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it will become useless because u're giving another body the power to overturn the referee's call.... all of them... and it doesn't matter if eventually that body will actually overturn just a few episodes.. what counts is not the actual situation but the power u're giving to another body. they could potentially overturn 1 aswell as 30 ref calls for week. that's already more than enough. and actually the fact that the federation won't have the time or the resources to review each and every referees' decision makes the situation even worse, as it opens the field to the scenario i mentioned above "why they did consider that case and not our team's case?"

also u talk about "extreme cases" but what makes a case "extreme"? the recklessness of the tackle? and when a tackle should be considered reckless enough to be subjected to the federation review? where's the discrimination line between an extreme case and an almost extreme case?
that is way too vague... and rules can't be vague coz a vague rule can bring to completely different applications and THAT makes it a dangerous rule.

u made the example of a player elbowing another player on purpose... but how do u establish if the player did it on purpose? it's impossible to come to a certain, safe assessment of the malice of the player... of his intention to hit the other player.
very often (most of the times) a player jumping to get the ball moves his arms and lifts his elbows to give himself a better jump and to mantain balance.... how do u establish wich case was intentionally aimed to hurt another player and wich case wasn't.
officially the game rules establish that u shouldn't lift you're elbows when jumping, no matter what....... but that's a stupid rule as lifting your elbows actually helps u making a better jump, so most of the players keep doing it and the refs let them doing it. they just call it a foul when they think that was aimed to stop another player.
so here u are. u have a judge (the ref) taking a decision on a very ambiguous and discretional matter. theese kind of calls usually lead to endless media and fans debate.... but like i said, in the current system of rules, those are just harmless debates.... because nothing can be done to overturn the referee's decision. he took a decision in real time and u just got to accept it.
but what would happen if u would give the chance to "appeal" against that decision..... claiming that was a wrong call on an "extreme case".
WOW, can u imagine what sort of mess such a possibility would create? the clubs would put pressure on the federation to review each ellbow case that happened in their matches.... of course it would be impossible for the federation to review so many episodes in just 1 week. and that would bring the clubs to question the federation's integrity and impartiality ("why did u review that episode and not the one that happened in my team's match?").
it would be a disaster and it would cause much more troubles and debates than it could possible solve.

now we have a very simple, clear and objective line. the ref didn't see the episode? ok then, u can make your call..... the ref did see the episode? then no, his decisions can't be overturned.
there's no room for debates or interpretations. but if u give the federation the power to overturn the ref decision and turn a "no foul" call into a foul.... then u just opened pandora's vase.
 
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lo zio said:
yeah bobby, i understand you're concerned about "the now", the current situation, and yeah clearely having someone teaching the kids how to tackle is a long term solution..... and that always assuming the techical education of the kids is the problem (that's just a hunch of mine and i can't be sure that's really the problem).

but like i said, if that's the cause of this issue, providing more serious punishments or retrospective bans won't change a thing. if u make a bad tackle just coz no one ever taught u how to do it, then u won't suddenly learn how to properly tackle just coz the federation disqualified u for a long term.

really? i thought i was the only one to think that. well first of, let me point out i'm not saying "that is definitely gonna be dangerous"... that's just what i think, my personal opinion. i'm not stating a fact coz no one can tell what could be the consequences of such a big change. that's how i see it anyway.

i learned through my studying\working experience (my line of work has a lot to do with "rules") that a rule is "good" when it doesn't open the field to equivocal situations in any possible scenario.
that means that when u issue a new rule, u don't have just to consider what will be the most common scenario of application of that rule, but any possible scenario, every possible application.... and only if the rule doesn't create equivocal consequences in any of those possible applications, that rule can be safely issued.

now we can picture the most common scenario of application of this rule... we have a referee making a huge mistake, not calling a foul on a reckless tackle.... the federation judge overturns the ref call and calls it a foul, disqualifying the player. it sounds perfect.

but now think of that... how many controversies and debate we witness every week on ref calls? how many coaches complain on a weekly basis about more or less debeatable calls?..... for now all those controversies are just nothing more than harmless arguments....
if u issue such a rule, each of those cases will be brought to the attention of the federation judge, as every coach will claim that was "an extreme case". and all of those cases will have to be decided in 1 week (anything longer than that would compromise the regularity of the league).
and if any of those episodes will be discarded by the federation judge, then the coaches, the media, the fans will start complaining about that...... "why our episode wasn't considered while other similar cases were? what criteria the judge followed? are we sure this judge is fair?" can u imagine how many conspiracy theories would blow the the league each and every week? the whole situation would just get out of control.

it will become useless because u're giving another body the power to overturn the referee's call.... all of them... and it doesn't matter if eventually that body will actually overturn just a few episodes.. what counts is not the actual situation but the power u're giving to another body. they could potentially overturn 1 aswell as 30 ref calls for week. that's already more than enough. and actually the fact that the federation won't have the time or the resources to review each and every referees' decision makes the situation even worse, as it opens the field to the scenario i mentioned above "why they did consider that case and not our team's case?"

also u talk about "extreme cases" but what makes a case "extreme"? the recklessness of the tackle? and when a tackle should be considered reckless enough to be subjected to the federation review? where's the discrimination line between an extreme case and an almost extreme case?
that is way too vague... and rules can't be vague coz a vague rule can bring to completely different applications and THAT makes it a dangerous rule.

u made the example of a player elbowing another player on purpose... but how do u establish if the player did it on purpose? it's impossible to come to a certain assessment of the malice of the player... of his intention to hit the other player.
very often (most of the times) a player jumping to get the ball moves his arms and lifts his elbows to give himself a better jump and to mantain balance.... how do u establish wich case was intentionally aimed to hurt another player and wich case wasn't.
officially the game rules establishe that u shouldn't lift you're elbows when jumping, no matter what....... but that's a stupid rule as lifting your elbows actually helps u making a better jump, so most of the players keep doing it and the refs let them doing it. they just call it a foul when they think that aimed to stop another player.
so here u are. u have a judge taking a decision on a very ambiguous and discretional matter. theese kind of calls usually lead to endless media and fans debate.... but like i said, in the current system of rules, those are just harmless debates.... because nothing can be done to overturn the referee's decision. he took a decision in real time and u just got to accept it.
but what would happen if u would give the chance to "appeal" against that decision..... claiming that was a wrong call on an "extreme case".
WOW, can u imagine what sort of mess such a possibility would create? the clubs would put pressure on the federation to review each ellbow case that happened in their matches.... of course it would be impossible for the federation to review so many episodes in just 1 week. and that would bring the clubs to question the federation's integrity and impartiality ("why did u review that episode and not the one that happened in my team's match?").
it would be a disaster and it would cause much more troubles and debates than it could possible solve.

now we have a very simple, clear and objective line. the ref didn't see the episode? ok then, u can make your call..... the ref did see the episode? then no, his decisions can't be overturned.
there's no room for debates or interpretations. but if u give the federation the power to overturn the ref decision and turn a "no foul" call into a foul.... then u just opened pandora's vase.
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I know what you mean about it all getting out of hand and everything being called up. That is what happens when you rush through rulings and don't think about the wider effects of rules implemented and possible outcomes.


Maybe I used the wrong word with 'extreme'. But I think if enough time was spent coming up with different ideas about how to use the retrospective punishment, then a solution can be found. Not all rules have to be a blanket rule and used for every situation. But you are right a clear definition and explanation needs to be given and demonstrated, so that it is very clear what is classed as an 'extreme' (for want of a better word) incident and not.

For instance you can have a rule that just says the board will review only 'violent', 'reckless' etc challenges or incidents. Or cases where a player has been sent off incorrectly or there has been a case of mistaken identity. Of course there will have to be clear explanations of what they call 'violent' or 'reckless' etc. Then a board of people will get together and vote on what punishment to give. Just like for real life 'crimes' in court. They look at the evidence and then as a group determine the punishment etc. (judge decides punishment after the jury decide)

All smaller infringements can be sorted out by the ref and the fourth referee with live replays. So balls over the line etc can be sorted out by the refs and other officials there and then.

Of course as you said clear definitions and lines must be put there, so people are clear what falls under small infringements and 'extreme' etc. But I think it can be possible, if thought about in a sensible way.

Your point about the punishments not being effective, because the players are taught to play that way, I do not agree with. Believe me, if you have a rough player and they do a horrible challenge that puts a player out for the rest of the season and then they get a 15 game ban and big fine, then I bet you they will not tackle like that regularly? they will soon learn how to play without challenging like that.

The bigger 'extreme' cases are not everyday occurances, so I think they can be decided on in a week and turned around in time.

That's all just imo of course. But I definately think it can be implemented if done correctly and all teams/managers in the league support it...but that is another question. Don't get me wrong, I know it it wont be easy to find a solution...but there has to be a better way than what happens now.
 
In the Arsenal thread jumbo quoted something from an English youth trainer. It is clear that in England the technical side of the game is neglected a litle bit when coaching youth.

I'm some sort of youth coach myself and i have several aims when coaching those kids:

1 and the biggest priority: that they enjoy playing football
2 learning technical skills
3 to learn to "see" football, to cultivate football intellect...passing skills and fundament of team work (but not exagerated...they need to enjoy themselves).

In England it's all about "transpiration", graft and agressiveness. I remember reading Vialli's excellent book about the differences between English and Italian football. Vialli thought it was weird that in England players were applauded for "winning" a corner... He didn't like the exagerated work ethic...in his opinion players wasted their efforts on needless runs and stupid tackles.

I've already said that in here: it's cultural.
The difference with the continent is still huge...it's also no wonder that the teams with less foreigners are playing this physcial football.
A team like WBA aren't exactly world beaters, but in Di Matteo they have an Italian coach and they play good, mature and tactically astute football (IMO Di Matteo will become a very, very good coach).
 
i gotta say i like "the english game"... it's physicality, it's fighting spirit. and i especially like the fact that the british game is different from the italian game. variety is always a great thing and having a chance to enjoy different ways to interpretate football is fantastic.

but i think what's in discussion here is not the physicality of the game, but the recklessness of some tackles. i mean u can actually play a physical football without breaking anyone legs, so i understand bobby's concerns.

teams like man utd, chelsea, arsenal, tottenham, everton, liverpool, aston villa, they've proved u can combine british intensity with technical quality and tactical awareness.
when proprerly coached, trained and educated, english player can prove themselves as technically gifted and as tactically aware as italian or spanish players.
and english football has hugely improved on those departments over the last 15 years.....
but when u look at all the non-midclass\top class teams in premier league (wich means pretty much half of the entire league), the difference between those teams and their italian or spanish counterparts (and therefore the difference between those players and their italian\spanish counterparts) is just huge! it almost doesn't look like they're playing the same sport.
that's why i tend to believe (but that's just my personal opinion) that something should be done to improve the quality of british academies.
u give the players\youngsters better teachers and coaches and u might see an improvement.

but then again, like bobby said, that would be just a long term solution and it wouldn't really have an instant impact on the league.
Bobby said:
That is what happens when you rush through rulings and don't think about the wider effects of rules implemented and possible outcomes.
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LOL! it took me 10 minutes to write that post.... and u managed to sum up my point in a single line... that is kinda frustrating :P oh well at least i can justify myself saying english is not my native language :COAT:

anyway bobby, i perfectly understand your point. and i agree with u. we should find a way to help the referees without compromising the game... it's just that i can't think of any solution :(
btw bobby it's always nice talking with u. even though we happen to disagree sometimes, your views and posts are always interesting and stimulating :))
 
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lo zio said:
i gotta say i like "the english game"... it's physicality, it's fighting spirit. and i especially like the fact that the british game is different from the italian game. variety is always a great thing and having a chance to enjoy different ways to interpretate football is fantastic.

but i think what's in discussion here is not the physicality of the game, but the recklessness of some tackles. i mean u can actually play a physical football without breaking anyone legs, so i understand bobby's concerns.

teams like man utd, chelsea, arsenal, tottenham, everton, liverpool, aston villa, they've proved u can combine british intensity with technical quality and tactical awareness.
when proprerly coached, trained and educated, english player can prove themselves as technically gifted and as tactically aware as italian or spanish players.
and english football has hugely improved on those departments over the last 15 years.....
but when u look at all the non-midclass\top class teams in premier league (wich means pretty much half of the entire league), the difference between those teams and their italian or spanish counterparts (and therefore the difference between those players and their italian\spanish counterparts) is just huge! it almost doesn't look like they're playing the same sport.
that's why i tend to believe (but that's just my personal opinion) that something should be done to improve the quality of british academies.
u give the players\youngsters better teachers and coaches and u might see an improvement.

but then again, like bobby said, that would be just a long term solution and it wouldn't really have an instant impact on the league.

LOL! it took me 10 minutes to write that post.... and u managed to sum up my point in a single line... that is kinda frustrating :P oh well at least i can justify myself saying english is not my native language :COAT:

anyway bobby, i perfectly understand your point. and i agree with u. we should find a way to help the referees without compromising the game... it's just that i can't think of any solution :(
btw bobby it's always nice talking with u. even though we happen to disagree sometimes, your views and posts are always interesting and stimulating :))
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Yeah it's nice having different leagues with different attributes. I like the English game with it's pace and strength. But there are many things that can be improved and not take away from the English game.

It is definately true about the technical side as Lo zio and gerd both point out. Hopefully our failures for the last forty odd years and especially our last showing in the world cup start ringing bells for British coaches...but I doubt it.

As always Lo zio it's been interesting debating with you :)) we obviously agree in a round about way, just differ in some ways ;))

I hope if the laws are changed, then they are thought about properly and there are no knee jerk reactions, that lead to very week rulings that cause chaos in the end. It needs to be thought about deeply.
 
gerd said:
A team like WBA aren't exactly world beaters, but in Di Matteo they have an Italian coach and they play good, mature and tactically astute football (IMO Di Matteo will become a very, very good coach).
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I think so too.

Been impressed by what I've seen from him so far.

I have high hopes.
 
Thank god I only saw about 40 minutes of the drabby, sorry derby last night. Watched a decent game before it, Hearts v Celtic.

I would ask for my 40 minutes of my life back, but guess I'd get in the queue of the people I heard on the radio looking for the 90m+ back.

Think with EPL it's more a case of getting lucky with the exciting games, these big face offs are bore-fests. Sometimes better watching a Wolves or something take a shock league and then seeing if they can hold out against one of the bigger teams.


FD
 
I honestly can't understand why Tuncay Sanli spends most of the time on the bench of Stoke City. He is a brilliant player (fantastic assist yesterday), maybe too good for Stoke and their manager?
 
Yeah he is good. I think he's prone to going missing quite often though and drifting in and out of matches with little impact. He seems a bit of a 'luxury' player for Stoke's style and doesn't really do enough to get in their first XI on a weekly basis. His goal against us was brilliant.
 
I don't like Allardyce type of football, but with the players he had, he did not that bad.
Blackburn must be the most boring team in the EPL.
 
I'm just laughing about Pavlyuchenko right now, he is really what they call him a "sleeping giant". He plays 3 games just bubbling along then scores such a class against Chelsea. With him is like playing roulette, Redknapp just needs to pick a match day and hope that it will be the one where Pavlyuchenko will be awake.
 
WTF!!? Ok so Steve Kean gets the job till end of season for Rovers!! :LOL:

This makes absolutely NO SENSE. Sack Fat Sam to hire this guy!

Now the dressing room and the players are fucked off and confused and aren't gonna be as committed either. Samba the captain who bleeds for Blackburn already wants to leave.

Wouldn't be surprised to see them relegated to The Championship come May.
This is just as dumb if not stupider than what Mark Ashley's doing with Newcastle. Both clubs have put themselves in unnecessary trouble when they looked pretty safe and good and would in my eyes certainly not go down had they chosen stability (less is more, don't do ANYTHING, don't fix what's not broken!) instead and not rock the boat mid-season only to appoint inferior options anyway!! lool. Now I'd say they're both definite candidates to go down despite having better squads and more points than the likes of Wolves.
 
They might actually be dumber than MIKE AShley (sorry ur right) lol which takes some doing! :LOL:

Hahah poor Blackburn fans. HAven't been to 2nd tier for awhile!! This might well do it now lol.
 
ilfenomeno said:
I'm just laughing about Pavlyuchenko right now, he is really what they call him a "sleeping giant". He plays 3 games just bubbling along then scores such a class against Chelsea. With him is like playing roulette, Redknapp just needs to pick a match day and hope that it will be the one where Pavlyuchenko will be awake.
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It's a shame really, I'm a massive fan of his (though I'm not entirely sure why...).

He had a spell last season (late January/early February) where he scored 9 in 8 and was looking like a top, top striker and then he didn't score again all season.

Enigma.
 
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