eFootball (All Platforms)

[Redhat]

And because its just "cartoon cards" its not considered gambling for some. But essentially it's the same as what Trainwreckstv is doing on twitch, but he has a 18+ warning that no ones cares about. Getting paid by gambling sites to gamble on stream .. on their sites.

It's sad to see him like a zombie spinning slots, he looks very unhealthy at the moment. In actuality he is a really funny & caring person. But he's "gettin paid" & that's all that matters these days.

You're not wrong in regards to cards essentially being gambling (be it baseball, Magic, Pokemon, Yugioh, what have you), but the key difference between physical goods and gacha/loot-boxes is just that; they're physical. If I pack an ultra rare card, I'm free to do with it what I like. I can sell it, sit on it and hope for its value to increase, trade it, give it to a friend, or even burn it. It's a tangible object that I own.

If I acquire Ronaldo in eFootball 2022 or FUT 22, what sort of value does it hold from an investment perspective? Virtually nothing. I can utilize said player within the game until it's made irrelevant exactly one year later when the subsequent title/patch is released and all of my purchases are rendered null and void. I can't sell my account or the player in question for real money because that goes against their ToS and I could have my account terminated. Going back to ownership, I don't even own any of the content I've purchased or unlocked in a video game. It's technically the developer/publisher's. Not to mention, it's evanescent in nature since all of your items vanish into an abyss the moment the game's server gets shut down. 10-years from now, I won't be able sell my eFootball 2022 Ronaldo on eBay for a handsome sum.

 

[Dscru]

The only crossplay shit I was really interested in seeing was an in-game mini server for user created option files.
And an infrastructure that didn't render every option useless after any tiny in-game update.
Some sports games I had back in 08/09 had this.

Hell, as scummy a company as Konami are, I'd move every stadium, face & kit creator they have on their payroll into a separate 'company'. Have them create every stadium, league, kit & player that ever existed and upload it as a 'unofficial' user made file

Then they could solely focus on gameplay for their 3yr f'king plan.
I've been hearing '3yr plan' for the last decade+, have they actually got past the 2nd yr with any of them? Serious question.

Anyway, I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear every preview & review state what an awesome 'base' this yrs game has to build on.

 

[ftuner]

After this immense amount of comments (wow I read almost everyone), almost comic monologues in some cases (They have made me spend funny moments). As an old elephant that I am, I think we are in an unknown transition where there are only two paths. Either Konami crashes to the ground and rescues his old project for us (we'll be waiting) or it's just a total change in the world of video games where it's going to look more like a children's bookmaker. I finished playing to entertain you and enjoy, the effort to improve ... Whoever has more money will have the victory.
For my part, I will try to continue enjoying the old games seasoned with the magic of the editors of this community.
Sorry, but I needed to vent.
Cheers

 

[The_Knight]

IMO this could have ALL been avoided if the game launching was complete i.e. Their +600 teams were in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Master League was in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Offline modes were in i (paid, that's fine, always has been), the 3D Grass was ready and shown off before launch, all the new gameplay elements were in it, and their new free "MyClub/FUT" thing was where it would be mid-November.

But they made the stupid decision to launch their early access demo as an incomplete full game. They're getting massacred in reviews and nobody will care revise their review after all the updates.

 

[janguv]

IMO this could have ALL been avoided if the game launching was complete i.e. Their +600 teams were in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Master League was in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Offline modes were in i (paid, that's fine, always has been), the 3D Grass was ready and shown off before launch, all the new gameplay elements were in it, and their new free "MyClub/FUT" thing was where it would be mid-November.

But they made the stupid decision to launch their early access demo as an incomplete full game. They're getting massacred in reviews and nobody will care revise their review after all the updates.

Sure, but that's also par for the course for live service games these days. So many examples of games that launched buggy and incomplete, with publishers pleading with fans to keep faith, because the rOaDmAp has been laid out and feature updates are coming soon™️, etc.

I think this kind of car-crash launch was all but assured the moment they moved to this model, frankly. It's also following another industry trend – introducing loot boxes at a later stage when all the reviews are already in. That said, they've shot themselves in the foot on this score, given they're selling loot boxes as preorders already Not only will reviewers take note, but gaming outlets are panning them for it.

What I'm really waiting for is an outlet to put all the pieces together (maybe Eurogamer will):

• Scummy MTX pricing tactics - lootboxes combined with battle passes and preorder FOMO packs
• A dishonest promise to the fanbase last year, when they surely knew what their plans were (the teaser and accompanying blurb)
• Selling a repeat game (2020 & 2021) on that false promise
• Designing a crossplay game with mobiles, something nobody was asking for, and lying about what this means for the game development in interviews
• Secretively rolling out a "performance test" that was basically a demo and in terrible state
• Awful trailers and marketing throughout, almost no media presence to promote the game
• Mismanagement of "influencers", dicking them about at the last minute
• No gameplay reveals
• Launching an Incomplete product, lacking basic features and modes (which they're charging for too when they arrive)

Maybe there's even more things to lay at their door. But for me, it's the suite of issues together that makes it all so terrible. The industry abounds with shitty MTX plans; eFootball's are especially egregious – not just because of the incomplete features/modes at launch (as Yong noted) but in light of the promises and recent history. Misdirection and pursuing a completely different market than the console/PC users, all the while telling them falsely that this isn't what they're doing.

 

[Madmac79]

They indeed lied to us so many times in the even recent past. Now about many things there isn't even the lie, just an empty void of a vague future promise. I mean I don't understand on what basis I'd have to expect a complete, satisfying game in a couple of months, especially if people will donwload it in mass from the get go. Why would they rush stuff if users run money in mouth from day one for this skeleton they are presenting? It's not a granted, but I'd see them trying to really improve things only if the game bombs or something. Don't think they'll put much effort in it after things will get in motion the way they want.

 

[h3li0]

IMO this could have ALL been avoided if the game launching was complete i.e. Their +600 teams were in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Master League was in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Offline modes were in i (paid, that's fine, always has been), the 3D Grass was ready and shown off before launch, all the new gameplay elements were in it, and their new free "MyClub/FUT" thing was where it would be mid-November.

But they made the stupid decision to launch their early access demo as an incomplete full game. They're getting massacred in reviews and nobody will care revise their review after all the updates.

What you are saying is basically what they have been doing for the last 4 years, which is launching a yearly game with all modes in it and myclub with MTX. That is no F2P.
And on top of that the game seems dumbed down from what we used to have, and we all know why, to be able to accommodate all devices mobile included.
And even worse, for the offline community, they don’t even mention any upgrade,remake,redone, of any of the offline modes, that they were almost obliged to speak about when they receive the backlash.

Even the edit mode, not a single word on it,what’s new, will it be improved or just a copy past of the previous iterations, on a game that is coming in 10 days, and even knowing all of this is coming on a later date, they got to have a plan of what they want to do or intend to do (well maybe thinking better about it, it’s koinami, and they didn’t even know themselves what to do)

Anyone remember driveclub? The game came out with an insane amount of problems and after a long time it turned into a great game, but the problem was that they lost most of the userbase on that shambolic start, despite the game being really good and full of content.

 

[The_Knight]

That is no F2P.

MyClub has always been F2P for the last 6 years. The difference is that you don't need to download a separate game to play offline modes, and can just buy them from within the same game, which is a million times smarter. You also don't need to have Playstation Plus anymore, which is great.

F2P isn't the problem. The problem is that they had a horribly inefficient development team that couldn't deliver on deadlines which are a big deal with a football game as the season starts at a fixed date, and there's a big competitor to worry about who also has a fixed launch date.

But because of horrible management, they couldn't even finalize their gameplay elements in time for the "launch".

And on top of that the game seems dumbed down from what we used to have

WHAT? The game hasn't been dumbed down at all. If anything, Physical Defending, Manual Dribbling, Intentional Special shots are all moving away from assists and towards more deliberate controls. Even on assists, the ball is way more "free". eFootball will be the hardest PES to play in several years, so much that they keep emphasizing -rightfully so- that we'll have to relearn many things. Mobile crossover? Unreal is made for that. The only thing it means for you is having more players to play against in multiplayer.

Again, this shitstorm they're facing is happening because they don't have next-gen graphics ready on launch, and they don't have a complete game ready at launch, so everyone is trying to find a reason to hate e.g. mobile game! F2P model! when those aren't the issue at all.

• Scummy MTX pricing tactics - lootboxes combined with battle passes and preorder FOMO packs

Konami isn't reinventing the wheel with MyClub. All these scummy tactics have been already done x100 worse in FUT. For e.g in FUT you can keep getting the same player over and over. In eFootball, they said that won't happen. I don't really care because I'm an offline player, but just saying that these scummy tactics have all existed for years and years in FUT, and are actually way more toned down in eFootball.

 

[etb10dmk]

Don't worry Koinami, after all the gibberish from the last months, I have my desktop more than prepared when the "winter is coming"...


#memorable_classics

P.S. I hope kindly from all of my heart that you'll rot in the seven circles of hell and Lucifer will pee infinitely on your decaying cadaver...

Yours truly,
An old passionate & preoccupied customer...

 

[janguv]

WHAT? The game hasn't been dumbed down at all. If anything, Physical Defending, Manual Dribbling, Intentional Special shots are all moving away from assists and towards more deliberate controls. Even on assists, the ball is way more "free". eFootball will be the hardest PES to play in several years, so much that they keep emphasizing -rightfully so- that we'll have to relearn many things.

How can you say this with any confidence, and after several of us have played and remembered the NFGOPT, in which it felt extremely dumbed down.

There seems to be a confusion at the heart of how you're presenting this. (Konami would be proud of your capitalisation of these "features" btw – "Physical Defending", etc.) Something can be dumbed down and yet harder to play. If we told footballers that they weren't allowed to use their heads, their knees, their chests – that would be in a sense dumbed down as a game, but it would be harder to play.

eFootball has removed several commands. Most glaringly, the ability to manually select exactly which player you want to control next. The selection logic was noticeably worse, the AI was noticeably dumber, and no command exists to bring in a second player (even one which stops short of a tackle – which would have been a good compromise for those complaining about automation). As a result, if you want to bring a man in to cover a run, cover a lane, or influence your team shape, you were absolutely fucked in the NFG. This is a dumbing down. It was also "harder" to play, because it meant the ball-carrier could dribble to their heart's content; interrupting them was made so much more difficult.

As for this:

Mobile crossover? Unreal is made for that. The only thing it means for you is having more players to play against in multiplayer.

Again, how can you can conclude the only thing it means is that (a touted benefit) we'll have a larger online player pool? Really? So you're giving zero consideration to the fact that vastly inferior devices will be playing this game fully compatible with next-gen devices? You don't think that the CPU-GPU of such inferior devices will impact the gameplay in any significant way? Come on, that's laughable.

F2P isn't the problem. The problem is that they had a horribly inefficient development team that couldn't deliver on deadlines which are a big deal with a football game as the season starts at a fixed date, and there's a big competitor to worry about who also has a fixed launch date.

Both of these things can be true. There are lots of things to worry about from "going F2P" – including (paradoxically, and as Yong pointed out) that it sets up an expectation of easy, free access, before you get pelted with requests to buy basic things (like a career mode or extortionate player packs). Konami are not just incompetent; they are greedy swines too.

Konami isn't reinventing the wheel with MyClub. All these scummy tactics have been already done x100 worse in FUT. For e.g in FUT you can keep getting the same player over and over. In eFootball, they said that won't happen. I don't really care because I'm an offline player, but just saying that these scummy tactics have all existed for years and years in FUT, and are actually way more toned down in eFootball.

This is just whataboutery, come on. My argument isn't that Konami are doing something truly new (although, since you mention it – has a game ever featured preorders for lootboxes, ones that aren't available for 6 weeks till after launch before? That might be a new low...). My argument is that when you combine all of the issues together, the pricing structure they've released is a special kick in the balls.

 

[The_Knight]

eFootball has removed several commands. Most glaringly, the ability to manually select exactly which player you want to control next. The selection logic was noticeably worse, the AI was noticeably dumber, and no command exists to bring in a second player (even one which stops short of a tackle – which would have been a good compromise for those complaining about automation). As a result, if you want to bring a man in to cover a run, cover a lane, or influence your team shape, you were absolutely fucked in the NFG. This is a dumbing down. It was also "harder" to play, because it meant the ball-carrier could dribble to their heart's content; interrupting them was made so much more difficult.

Bringing a second player to close in is a function I used all the time, and it made my life a whole lot EASIER. Removing it doesn't constitute dumbing down the game. It means you need to have defenders with better positional awareness of where they need to be. Also, this tactic almost consistently resulted in a 1-on-1 for my opponents because the second defender would leave a player open in the back.

"Physical Defending"

Yes, Physical Defending is a massive departure from the extremely dumbed down method we used to employ to steal back the ball i.e. hold down 'Pass', period. Defending is literally half of the game, and they introduced a completely new way to do it. This is not dumbing down the game.

I didn't even mention the fact we'll have to manually shield the ball now, as it's no longer automated (although I think it should be to a certain extent). Again, this is not dumbing down the game.

Shooting a special shot is now HARDER: The power bar takes longer to fill with R2 pressed down, which means you need to create more space before attempting this shot. This is not dumbing down the game.

All this talk about "dUMbing DOwn teh gAME" originated when mobile crossover was announced, not in response to the NFG beta online server test, which btw, was just that: An online server test. It's been over two months and a huge chunk of the gameplay features aren't even ready for this "launch" if they insist on calling it that.

Even looking at the horrible leaked footage, you can spot things like improved receiving animations, and better flowing game with less interruptions.

I just think a big part of the backlash was the fact the game is incomplete, and they don't have graphics that explain the 2-3 year cycle.

Would you rather have the same mechanics and controls for this year's game? Konami is taking a huge risk forcing its players to re-learn core gameplay mechanics, so I'm actually glad the gameplay is moving forward after many years of stagnation.

All the talk about scummy tactics, FTP, cards, coins...etc, is irrelevant to me, since: I play offline, and the other online alternative uses even worse tactics, with incomparably worse gameplay that actually makes their game more of a football-themed cards game.

 

[h3li0]

@The_Knight i guess @janguv already answered everything.

It’s dumbed down wether you like it or not. They added good things that you just mentioned like the pressure based movement, and pressure based knock on the ball, and manual defense, but as it is on NFG it will be a goal fest since you cannot control the player you want only the one predetermined by AÍ and you are dependent on a damn good AÍ of your teammates, but if you played NFG you can’t really say in all truth that it seemed better than PES 21, besides the more manual passing part. Let’s hope the final version on the 30th could be as good as at least 30% of your optimist.

The mobile part I’m not going to even bother to answer if you really believe that a xiaomi Redmi note 10 is able to do the same, as a PS5/Xbox series technically, I don’t know why Sony and Microsoft bother releasing consoles. We could just buy a mobile phone for 200€ and connect it to a remote and TV and play next gen games.

 

[janguv]

Bringing a second player to close in is a function I used all the time, and it made my life a whole lot EASIER. Removing it doesn't constitute dumbing down the game. It means you need to have defenders with better positional awareness of where they need to be. Also, this tactic almost consistently resulted in a 1-on-1 for my opponents because the second defender would leave a player open in the back.

You've replicated the confusion I pointed out in my post here. Something can be dumbed down and harder – removing the second player press as well as butchering the selection logic and removing RS manual selection overall represents a dumbing down of the selection and on-the-fly team shape mechanics. It is also as a result harder to defend, because you can't do things football teams and players routinely do: like anticipate runs and cut off lanes. Second bit highlighted in bold: quite. Have you seen any evidence of improved positional awareness of AI players? Because I've only seen it look worse than it is now.

All this talk about "dUMbing DOwn teh gAME" originated when mobile crossover was announced, long before the NFG beta online server test, which btw, was just that: An online server test. It's been over two months and a huge chunk of the gameplay features aren't even ready for this "launch" if they insist on calling it that.

What? The mobile cross-play wasn't announced till way after the NFGOPT. Which, by the way, clearly wasn't just an online server test, and it astounds me people still regurgitate that line – sillier now than it was back then. And it was silly back then. The survey was full of gameplay related (not netcode related) questions, and they even introduced it with "we hope it gives you a taste of what's to come" – it was the product in early form we are getting on the 30th. Hell, they've even rebadged the NFG for eFootball 2022 – that should tell you something. Most of the snippets we've seen of actual gameplay look basically the same as what we played on the NFGOPT, and the controller mappings that have been released are exactly the same – and it's the controls that are in contention here, in the question of dumbing down.

Yes, Physical Defending is a massive departure from the extremely dumbed down method we used to employ to steal back the ball i.e. hold down 'Pass', period. Defending is literally half of the game, and they introduced a completely new way to do it. This is not dumbing down the game.

I didn't even mention the fact we'll have to manually shield the ball now, as it's no longer automated (although I think it should be to a certain extent). Again, this is not dumbing down the game.

Shooting a special shot is now HARDER: The power bar takes longer to fill with R2 pressed down, which means you need to create more space before attempting this shot. This is not dumbing down the game.

I grant you that holding down X (or X and Square) make for a very dumb defending experience, but anyone who did do that usually conceded fouls everywhere, and there was a much more intelligent means of defending on 2021 than doing this. Still, I would be happy with something similar to FIFA's tactical defending – something that includes some form of second-man press too.

Manual shielding: was completely broken in the NFGOPT. Could send players flying with your arse. And the implementation of shielding on PES 2021 is actually pretty smooth. With experience, you know how to trigger it and how to avoid it.

Re special shooting – considering that there are no second-man presses now, and no press X to barge, attackers have loads of time to hold down the shoot button. Saw this a lot in the NFGOPT matches: people spammed the hell out of R2 low shots. There's even compilations of it. It made shooting easier (and keepers were, predictably, terrible at getting down low).

More generally, with these points, I think you're being one-sided as to what makes a game "hard" by thinking just of offensive or defensive sides to some scenario, and not the other. E.g., in your estimation of what is harder now when a player is carrying the ball (and in your view, not dumbed down), you're essentially just taking into account what it's like to defend against it – forgetting that as it's that much harder to intercept and tackle, it's also that much easier to blitz defences with dribbling. The balance is all off.

All the talk about scummy tactics, FTP, cards, coins...etc, is irrelevant to me, since: I play offline, and the other online alternative uses even worse tactics, with incomparably worse gameplay that actually makes their game more of a football-themed cards game.

I don't use any of the game modes which involve money either, but it's not irrelevant to me, because I care about predatory exploitation. It is possible to care about such things even if you aren't the one getting exploited. The comparison with FIFA is whataboutery, as mentioned, and I'm not sure at this point how apt it is anyway; it is not clear that Konami's approach is less scummy.

 

[The_Knight]

considering that there are no second-man presses now, and no press X to barge, attackers have loads of time to hold down the shoot button. Saw this a lot in the NFGOPT matches: people spammed the hell out of R2 low shots. There's even compilations of it. It made shooting easier (and keepers were, predictably, terrible at getting down low).

Wasn't the NFG Online Beta Test pretty much this: Players who don't know how to defend in the new game, playing against other players who don't know how to defend in the new game? Of course it will be a goal fest.

I honestly haven't played the NFG OBT as I was busy those two weeks, but as I said, I'll wait for the most difficult offline AI and compare it to last year's offline. I don't have an online frame of reference, but as I said, they completely redid Defending, and the NFG didn't have you facing off against AI, it was against another player who doesn't know how to defend.

Releasing the beta test was a marketing disaster and there was no upside to it. There are plenty of ways to test online performance without actually releasing an old version of the game for the public without any tutorials and with a massive change to core gameplay mechanics.

Most of the snippets we've seen of actual gameplay look basically the same as what we played on the NFGOPT, and the controller mappings that have been released are exactly the same – and it's the controls that are in contention here, in the question of dumbing down.

If you've been playing PES long enough, you'll know that PES4,5,6 all looked pretty much the same, but played very differently. PES 2019,2020,2021, same deal. You need to actually hold the controller and play the game to know how it plays. But I see you and several here already making definitive conclusions about gameplay based on the NFG from mid-July, when it's been over two months and the "launch game" itself won't have many gameplay mechanics ready.

Again, I'm FINALLY happy to see gameplay move forward from the stagnated mechanics we used to have for most of the past decade.

I don't use any of the game modes which involve money either, but it's not irrelevant to me, because I care about predatory exploitation. It is possible to care about such things even if you aren't the one getting exploited. The comparison with FIFA is whataboutery, as mentioned, and I'm not sure at this point how apt it is anyway; it is not clear that Konami's approach is less scummy.

It isn't whataboutery. You need to think in relative terms and not absolute terms. Is it scummy that a marketing photo of a Muffin or Burger looks much better than the actual product you buy? Sure,in absolute terms it's misleading. But this is just standard marketing that every restaurant/coffeeshop uses. For FUT/eFootball, this is how you make money on this particular game mode. As painful as it is for people to be reminded: This isn't a charity. If the game doesn't succeed financially, it doesn't succeed period. More so for eFootball since they aren't forcing you to buy offline modes you won't play if all you want to do is MyClub. Again, at least this game has a solid gameplay behind it. FIFA is at this point just a football-themed card game. Oh, FIFA isn't even free and they use WAY WORSE tactics. If anything, Konami are actually being nice, but only because they have to versus EA whose game is a far more complete package, gameplay aside. So yes, in relative terms, what Konami is doing is just standard tactics and I don't know how else people expect them to make money other than the way this game mode has traditionally made money in every other football game.

Let's be realistic: The full game won't be here before Q1 2022. The only reason they're rushing this early access is to get in before FIFA, who haven't really done anything to improve over last year's game beyond strong marketing, unlike Konami who introduced the biggest change in the game's core mechanics in over a decade.

So yes, the only reason I'd start playing when the game comes out will only be to get used to the new mechanics, till the actual full game is here.

 

[The_Knight]

We could just buy a mobile phone for 200€ and connect it to a remote and TV and play next gen games.

Where exactly did you see anyone say mobile will deliver next-gen performance? The difference between hardware is pretty much about how much graphical assets they can render, and this is why you buy a new console.

 

[Roger Machado]

All this talk about "dUMbing DOwn teh gAME" originated when mobile crossover was announced, not in response to the NFG beta online server test, which btw, was just that: An online server test. It's been over two months and a huge chunk of the gameplay features aren't even ready for this "launch" if they insist on calling it that.

really man? because this its just lying or fighting with reality

 

[Joga]

It isn't whataboutery. You need to think in relative terms and not absolute terms. Is it scummy that a marketing photo of a Muffin or Burger looks much better than the actual product you buy? Sure,in absolute terms it's misleading. But this is just standard marketing that every restaurant/coffeeshop uses. For FUT/eFootball, this is how you make money on this particular game mode. As painful as it is for people to be reminded: This isn't a charity.

Mate did you get hacked? "It isn't whataboutery ... WHAT ABOUT MCDONALDS!?"

You can keep telling people how to think all you want, but as stated, this isn't about us anymore. We have been milked & lied to already, we aren't even a blip on the radar anymore. They are now blatantly going for younger people & the FIFA crowd. This isn't about you or how much you spend, you are normalizing predatory practices with every sentence.. comparing electronic gaming to restaurant food?

Hold up.. a wise man once said -

but the key difference between physical goods and gacha/loot-boxes is just that; they're physical. If I pack an ultra rare card, I'm free to do with it what I like. I can sell it, sit on it and hope for its value to increase, trade it, give it to a friend, or even burn it. It's a tangible object that I own.

If I acquire Ronaldo in eFootball 2022 or FUT 22, what sort of value does it hold from an investment perspective? Virtually nothing. I can utilize said player within the game until it's made irrelevant exactly one year later when the subsequent title/patch is released and all of my purchases are rendered null and void. I can't sell my account or the player in question for real money because that goes against their ToS and I could have my account terminated. Going back to ownership, I don't even own any of the content I've purchased or unlocked in a video game. It's technically the developer/publisher's. Not to mention, it's evanescent in nature since all of your items vanish into an abyss the moment the game's server gets shut down. 10-years from now, I won't be able sell my eFootball 2022 Ronaldo on eBay for a handsome sum.

- @Redhat


"This isn't a charity" is an excuse that holds the common man down, & keeps the rich prosperous!

EDIT: it's funny thinking about it .. I don't recall anyone asking for F2P in the first place Then they hit us with the guilt trip. What an abusive relationship

 

[manmachine]

Bringing a second player to close in is a function I used all the time, and it made my life a whole lot EASIER. Removing it doesn't constitute dumbing down the game.

Spot on. Now if they remove the ground pass function this will easily be the best game ever. Use it all the time and it makes playing the game so soooo easy. Makes me feel I have no honour when I defeat my enemies!

Not to mention that it allows you to pass the ball to another player like a coward and avoid a glorious 1v1 fight to the death on the battlefield, which is the only thing that's fun in this lame sport humans call soccer.

 

[staffan]

Even on assists, the ball is way more "free".

Honestly not sure what the evidence is for this, did NFG have much more freedom? Surely you aren't basing this off of the leaked footage of clueless people that were accidentally using manual passing. It's weird how quickly someone can go from making reasonable points to sperging out and trying to defend the indefensible with strained, tenuous arguments. For example, asserting that you know for a fact that older consoles could handle the tech behind HyperMotion and that they're "trying to drive up console sales" (wat), but not backing it up with any evidence. Claiming that the FUT business model is way worse without expanding on why. It's almost like you watched the Yong video and instead of reacting with disgust like most fans would do, zeroed in on the one thing in eFootball that's not quite as bad (not getting repeat players, which might only apply to this ambassador pre-order pack) and thought "great I can use this to defend Konami against the hAtErS".

I did think it was odd that you only focused on the positives in your videos, how is removing right stick switching to force people into "duels" not dumbing the game down? Right stick switching, being able to select exactly the right player on the fly, is one of the bigger skill differentiators in a football game. I really hope there aren't any perverse incentives in play here, given that you have a PES YouTube channel that gets quite a few views. People that defend Konami to the hilt are always willing to be critical of the marketing though, which I find amusing. It gives a veneer of objectivity/balance but what it really implies is that we are just too dumb to see how great things are, and what a good job Konami are really doing, we just need a good and clear marketing strategy to spell it out for us.

 

[vialli82]

IMO this could have ALL been avoided if the game launching was complete i.e. Their +600 teams were in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Master League was in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Offline modes were in i (paid, that's fine, always has been), the 3D Grass was ready and shown off before launch, all the new gameplay elements were in it, and their new free "MyClub/FUT" thing was where it would be mid-November.

But they made the stupid decision to launch their early access demo as an incomplete full game. They're getting massacred in reviews and nobody will care revise their review after all the updates.

Fine always been like this... But from some sources, the prices are pretty high. That's what i fear the most in fact, and in total it would be a very higher price than the full game on Disc or Digital.
That's what i'm waiting about : if they don't raise up their price. If yes, i will be very hardcore on Twitter and try to make a Tweet they can't pass out. Not a simple "fuck Konami".
I'll try to build an army if possible. No joke, if i could, i will. But it's not like it's my only preoccupation ftm. I got others problems.
Just don't want having more problem with the 40 euros for ML 30 for league mode, 25 for full database etc.

I mean, with the F2P model, many people won't even do the maths. I will personally. Buy : League Mode/ML (if it's out of course) i hope Edit Mode will be free they practically said it will on part with the humm "Full game" (so mid-november). And perhaps the VS mode called in french "Duels" who makes you a pack of VS against CPU and percentage of result if they keep it. I played a lot on that mode. It's looking a bit brainless, but i really liked it, with random selections on every games.

And if there's still "Division", i would like to try it online.

BUT if the gameplay and the whole game FINISHED is okay. So not for now. Otherwhise "see ya later, or never, adios". But some hints from The_Knight at least for controls gived me hope. For example, automatic ball protection is not a so bad thing, but too random, especially in defence (well for PES 2021 you don't need it to defend) but in attack... I got hard to manage it when i'm with a big guy and what to protect the ball. I just hope it won't be over effective like on FIFA 19 or 18.

Also, technically, i don't remember officially to heard there will be "4 times more animations" than on previous PES. If it's off the pitch animations : i don't care at all. Graphically i'm the only one but like the PES 2010 lighting, and perphaps not the models (i prefers the preset faces from FOX... Even the face from Messi they showed us on the suppposed PES 2022, it looked like wax) but the global lighting on players, with effects, i kinda like it without be stunned at all about. I don't bother, perhaps i'm a bit too old school lol. The lacks of details around the pitchs is also annoying me. Not a thing that will push me out : animations without transitions makes it super rigid will for example.
Why i'm more "PES" than the other, it's because want a game where i feel the ball first, in everything i do, feel the power of a shoot etc., that's my mojo.
If UFL got it... And offline... There will be match.

But 100% sure in every situation possible that i won't play football games this year as usual : it won't be a priority anymore. PS4 classics to finish, some to buy (Like Ghost of Tsushima director's cut etc)

 

[Superhoop]

Honestly not sure what the evidence is for this, did NFG have much more freedom? Surely you aren't basing this off of the leaked footage of clueless people that were accidentally using manual passing. It's weird how quickly someone can go from making reasonable points to sperging out and trying to defend the indefensible with strained, tenuous arguments. For example, asserting that you know for a fact that older consoles could handle the tech behind HyperMotion and that they're "trying to drive up console sales" (wat), but not backing it up with any evidence. Claiming that the FUT business model is way worse without expanding on why. It's almost like you watched the Yong video and instead of reacting with disgust like most fans would do, zeroed in on the one thing in eFootball that's not quite as bad (not getting repeat players, which might only apply to this ambassador pre-order pack) and thought "great I can use this to defend Konami against the hAtErS".

I did think it was odd that you only focused on the positives in your videos, how is removing right stick switching to force people into "duels" not dumbing the game down? Right stick switching, being able to select exactly the right player on the fly, is one of the bigger skill differentiators in a football game. I really hope there aren't any perverse incentives in play here, given that you have a PES YouTube channel that gets quite a few views. People that defend Konami to the hilt are always willing to be critical of the marketing though, which I find amusing. It gives a veneer of objectivity/balance but what it really implies is that we are just too dumb to see how great things are, and what a good job Konami are really doing, we just need a good and clear marketing strategy to spell it out for us.

Just off my experience of the NFLGBTQ+ beta, I think the ball looking more free might be from some reduction in assistance on the default passing assistance level. I played on manual, but those I played against with assisted passing were mis-placing passes way more than on last gen. Apart from PES15, I didn't see any difference between PA1 to PA3 when I tested them. Didn't matter how much power or what direction you pushed, the ball was always pretty much laser guided. There's even times on PA1 I pushed the stick towards one player on PES20 and it would pass to someone in the completely opposite direction. Not sure if the new game will fix this, but mainly just wanted to give my take on what The Knight probably meant as a more free ball having played the beta myself.

 

[Superhoop]

On the subject of passing...

One thing that is a downside of manual passing is that, directional wise at least, it doesn't seem to matter what the passing stats are for a player, each player can pick out insanely good passes if you're decent enough with manual controls. Stats do play a part (I think ?) with how fast a player can pass the ball when receiving it and how well they can play a first-time pass, so it's not completely pointless having good passing stats for manual players (if I'm correct with my statement above). I would like some error on direction of passes though for this with poor passing stats. At first I thought, maybe make it harder to mis-place a pass with someone with high passing stats, but then that would end up making manual passing assisted.

So... what if they added levels of increased directional error to the passing? So for example, if represented as a field of error in the shape of an invisible cone from the players feet, a player with 90 and above passing would have that field of error represented as an invisible very narrow straight line. Basically, the direction you push is where he'll pass. Take a player with passing of say around 60, that field of error would look like a cone of let's say 50 degrees. So, when you press pass, that pass may go straight down the line at zero degrees, or it could go up to 25 degrees to the left or upto 25 degrees to the right. Maybe that level of error is too much, but just an example in this case. Best example to compare it to in PES21 is the penalty system. The better penalty takers (when you have the aiming circle activated) have a much smaller circle for error over those with lower penalty stats.

Does that sound like something other manual passing players would be happy with? Other than it making the game a lot freer and more enjoyable, I prefer manual passing as if I misplace a pass, it's my fault, not the games. However, I don't want my players with weaker passing ability to be able to produce the same level of accuracy on a constant basis as those who should be far better.

 

[༺Ƥeຮ༻]

Mate did you get hacked? "It isn't whataboutery ... WHAT ABOUT MCDONALDS!?"

You can keep telling people how to think all you want, but as stated, this isn't about us anymore. We have been milked & lied to already, we aren't even a blip on the radar anymore. They are now blatantly going for younger people & the FIFA crowd. This isn't about you or how much you spend, you are normalizing predatory practices with every sentence.. comparing electronic gaming to restaurant food?

Hold up.. a wise man once said -



- @Redhat


"This isn't a charity" is an excuse that holds the common man down, & keeps the rich prosperous!

EDIT: it's funny thinking about it .. I don't recall anyone asking for F2P in the first place Then they hit us with the guilt trip. What an abusive relationship

When I saw about McDonald's ... I visualized it ... and I laughed my ass, because I imagined a similar scenario:

 

[Antoine]

IMO this could have ALL been avoided if the game launching was complete i.e. Their +600 teams were in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Master League was in it (paid, that's fine, always has been), Offline modes were in i (paid, that's fine, always has been), the 3D Grass was ready and shown off before launch, all the new gameplay elements were in it, and their new free "MyClub/FUT" thing was where it would be mid-November.

But they made the stupid decision to launch their early access demo as an incomplete full game. They're getting massacred in reviews and nobody will care revise their review after all the updates.

I want to ask you a question and you can of course feel free to tell me to sling my hook if you so wish, but do you rely on your videos for income?

I ask because I've followed your channel over the years and whilst at times I didn't agree with your opinion, your videos became more professional and began to gather more insight - especially the last few years, which to be frank have been exceptional.

However, Ive noticed that you have softened your approach to this new release, much like TTB and Spoony Pizzas. Now i know theres folks out there that want to give this a chance, but with the amount underhandedness that exists in this title, i personally feel that it should not be given a platform. I also feel that whether you like it or not, whether you accept it or not, due to your channels popularity, the likes of yourself, Spoony Pizzas and TTB HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY here with this game.

And its the same with any youtuber that endorses this practice whether they make videos on fortnite, FUT, COD, whatever. It is all a part of the cycle of making these games successful and feeds into the frenzy. Of course its your decision - but decisions like these will never be stopped as long as they are endorsed or even compromised upon.

I don't feel that it is right and if you run a channel that is growing and has many followers you DO need to think of the content you are putting out there. This is a form of gambling after all.

 

[etb10dmk]

MyClub has always been F2P for the last 6 years. The difference is that you don't need to download a separate game to play offline modes, and can just buy them from within the same game, which is a million times smarter. You also don't need to have Playstation Plus anymore, which is great.

Not at all... from the beginning in 2015 myClub was part of the entire product package like in every game that contains an offline and online experience integrated that complete its value. Talking about it like "always been" as a different thing that was F2P it's just hilarious. That sounds like I should consider the multiplayer part of every game a F2P mode itself, and that's completely wrong... Just because they released a light version after some months doesn't eliminate the fact that myClub was/is initially part of the full paid product, because at the release date the mode it's included just in the overall paid experience...

WHAT? The game hasn't been dumbed down at all. If anything, Physical Defending, Manual Dribbling, Intentional Special shots are all moving away from assists and towards more deliberate controls. Even on assists, the ball is way more "free". eFootball will be the hardest PES to play in several years, so much that they keep emphasizing -rightfully so- that we'll have to relearn many things. Mobile crossover? Unreal is made for that. The only thing it means for you is having more players to play against in multiplayer.

You continue to ignore the fact that physical contact animations between players are still laughable like are ported directly from the last PES versions, and the physical defending without some acceptable physical contacts or inteligent AI it's just moot... About the fact that on assists the ball is way more "free" you don't know that, because you didn't played it to consider that argument as positive and could be seen like a total bias. Also be aware that's a live service and they can automate everything just in a blink of an eye...

Again, this shitstorm they're facing is happening because they don't have next-gen graphics ready on launch, and they don't have a complete game ready at launch, so everyone is trying to find a reason to hate e.g. mobile game! F2P model! when those aren't the issue at all.

That's not an excuse for a game "developed" for at least 2 years especially knowing that has assets ported into it from the previous games. It's very simple, they can't compete with FIFA at all in this state, so they could wait longer and release something that makes it different that could speak volumes, but instead they prefer to release an excuse of a half baked demo, but with the microtransactions more than ready; hell, you can preorder them two months prior...

Konami isn't reinventing the wheel with MyClub. All these scummy tactics have been already done x100 worse in FUT. For e.g in FUT you can keep getting the same player over and over. In eFootball, they said that won't happen. I don't really care because I'm an offline player, but just saying that these scummy tactics have all existed for years and years in FUT, and are actually way more toned down in eFootball.

It's true, they don't invented those schemes but atm it's not an excuse for them to go full predatory with this preorder lootbox thingy that's way worse than what we've seen until now. You can literally reserve the opportunity to gamble two months before the casino starts, for a 60% fee of a full AAA game price, that also will expire in april 2022 if you'll not gamble for your packs during this period... I can't preorder an acceptable offline experience, but instead I can preorder gamble two months in advance. That sounds fair...

All this talk about "dUMbing DOwn teh gAME" originated when mobile crossover was announced, not in response to the NFG beta online server test, which btw, was just that: An online server test. It's been over two months and a huge chunk of the gameplay features aren't even ready for this "launch" if they insist on calling it that.

Not at all, that's completely wrong.. The dumbing down was a concern actively talked when that beta was showing that you call it "online server test". In that period the mobile wasn't even mentioned or at least we didn't knew about their direction that was about to be taken... Now that beta transforms into eFootball 2022 in the library. What a surprise...

Even looking at the horrible leaked footage, you can spot things like improved receiving animations, and better flowing game with less interruptions.

Also you can spot the missing of other animations and mechanics as sharp kicks that they'll "plan" to release on a later date...

All the talk about scummy tactics, FTP, cards, coins...etc, is irrelevant to me, since: I play offline, and the other online alternative uses even worse tactics, with incomparably worse gameplay that actually makes their game more of a football-themed cards game.

You know that most of the people here are playing offline, but they don't share your view about your bias overall. It looks like I need to be excited about some features as dribbling or few features that are improving sligthy the game, and everything else can go to hell... (In this case I have that picture in my mind with Mr. Bean eating a muffin when in the background his entire car is getting smashed by a tank)

If you've been playing PES long enough, you'll know that PES4,5,6 all looked pretty much the same, but played very differently. PES 2019,2020,2021, same deal. You need to actually hold the controller and play the game to know how it plays. But I see you and several here already making definitive conclusions about gameplay based on the NFG from mid-July, when it's been over two months and the "launch game" itself won't have many gameplay mechanics ready.

For that reason you can't say" the dribbling is improved", or the "ball is free" before you play the game. Most of people are not critical just about the gameplay itself, it's the overall shitness that they are trying to do, and they are continuing to evolve on it like a pro...

It isn't whataboutery. You need to think in relative terms and not absolute terms. Is it scummy that a marketing photo of a Muffin or Burger looks much better than the actual product you buy? Sure,in absolute terms it's misleading. But this is just standard marketing that every restaurant/coffeeshop uses.

Relative terms, quantum mechanics, the bermuda triangle, in search for the absolution... we are getting too technical here for something that we shouldn't... It's hilarious to compare that type of marketing with this, but to induce a better understanding on your argument: when I see that awesome burger photo and then I'll go to Burger King to get it, even if it's shit in reality I know that I'll pay for a burger and I'll eat it. That means I don't preorder the opportunity to gamble randomly for it, so this scum it's on a such level that even Satan itself could be impressed by this "hold my beer" type of achievement...

For FUT/eFootball, this is how you make money on this particular game mode. As painful as it is for people to be reminded: This isn't a charity.

But it is, they are giving us a demo as charity, then as good bishops that they are, they'll offer us a chance to preorder a gamble for a place in heaven via some donation fee... Not to mention that on store pages casuals can be easily misleaded to purchase that preorder pack, thinking that they'll need it because practically that could be the base game on release if they'll not read the description...

If the game doesn't succeed financially, it doesn't succeed period. More so for eFootball since they aren't forcing you to buy offline modes you won't play if all you want to do is MyClub. Again, at least this game has a solid gameplay behind it. FIFA is at this point just a football-themed card game.

Again, you didn't played the game yet, you can't make that affirmation that the official gameplay is solid until you play it, that's a straight bias. And that's true, FIFA is a football themed card game casino, but eFootball now elevates that concept even further to a point where you can preorder those random packs necesary for its own football-themed card game...

 

[༺Ƥeຮ༻]

WOW .. what's going on here !? Lots of text a lot to read ... Nah ... I'm lazy!

From what I've seen happening as dialogue, I agree with @The_Knight mostly that ... there's nothing wrong with F2P and the ability to buy the modes and utilities you're only interested in. Maybe it will be cheaper after all !? We still don't know, maybe not.

It's bad when F2P is used as an excuse for poor quality and lack of content.

About the " new gameplay " futures, let's face it, the first is made to works on mobile and maybe to be easier for newcomers and FIFA fans.

I don't agree with @The_Knight that this is the only way Konami can make money, and we have to accept the path they have decided to take and normalize all these practices (maybe that's what you mean? But again, you've all written too much and I don't have time to read everything, sorry)! That's why I made this McDonald's meme. They just chose the easy way.

 

[janguv]

Wasn't the NFG Online Beta Test pretty much this: Players who don't know how to defend in the new game, playing against other players who don't know how to defend in the new game? Of course it will be a goal fest.

I honestly haven't played the NFG OBT as I was busy those two weeks, but as I said, I'll wait for the most difficult offline AI and compare it to last year's offline. I don't have an online frame of reference, but as I said, they completely redid Defending, and the NFG didn't have you facing off against AI, it was against another player who doesn't know how to defend.

Others have already done a great job of picking up on the flaws in your arguments; I'll do my best to be brief. Re this one: doubtless there was an element of people defending badly because unfamiliar, but also: defending badly because half the controls weren't there to allow you to defend like an intelligent football team. I don't know why you keep ignoring this fact. No RS switching + poor selection logic + poor team AI = clusterfuck.

And as @etb10dmk said well – for someone who thinks you can't judge a game until you have a controller in your hand, you've certainly lapped up the Konami promotional materials with the guff about gameplay changes.

If you've been playing PES long enough, you'll know that PES4,5,6 all looked pretty much the same, but played very differently. PES 2019,2020,2021, same deal. You need to actually hold the controller and play the game to know how it plays. But I see you and several here already making definitive conclusions about gameplay based on the NFG from mid-July, when it's been over two months and the "launch game" itself won't have many gameplay mechanics ready.

But there are observable differences between the games you mention at the level of how the AI behaves. (Less so between 2020 and 2021, because these are the same game, one with a few more bugfixes.) You also don't need to have picked up a gamepad to realise that several commands have been removed. And of course the great irony here is that (as mentioned above): you didn't play the NFG and think the changes are great; others did play it and think the changes are pants

Again, I'm FINALLY happy to see gameplay move forward from the stagnated mechanics we used to have for most of the past decade.

You're framing it as a move forward. I will grant you it is a move.

It isn't whataboutery. You need to think in relative terms and not absolute terms. Is it scummy that a marketing photo of a Muffin or Burger looks much better than the actual product you buy? Sure,in absolute terms it's misleading. But this is just standard marketing that every restaurant/coffeeshop uses. For FUT/eFootball, this is how you make money on this particular game mode. As painful as it is for people to be reminded: This isn't a charity. If the game doesn't succeed financially, it doesn't succeed period. More so for eFootball since they aren't forcing you to buy offline modes you won't play if all you want to do is MyClub. Again, at least this game has a solid gameplay behind it. FIFA is at this point just a football-themed card game. Oh, FIFA isn't even free and they use WAY WORSE tactics. If anything, Konami are actually being nice, but only because they have to versus EA whose game is a far more complete package, gameplay aside. So yes, in relative terms, what Konami is doing is just standard tactics and I don't know how else people expect them to make money other than the way this game mode has traditionally made money in every other football game.

Let's be realistic: The full game won't be here before Q1 2022. The only reason they're rushing this early access is to get in before FIFA, who haven't really done anything to improve over last year's game beyond strong marketing, unlike Konami who introduced the biggest change in the game's core mechanics in over a decade.

This is simply craven corporate apologia. Did it not repulse you to type "This isn't a charity"? Fuck, it made me wince just to read it.

Your relative/absolute distinction misfires, not only because some practices are reprehensible on the absolute dimension ("But, good sir, indentured labour is not quite chattel slavery – let's put it into perspective!"). In this case, consider: selling gambling to children. But also because – something you don't seem to be picking up on – an industry known for a lax media which tolerates all sorts of shite from major publishers is itself singling out this pricing mechanism as fucked up:

https://kotaku.com/konami-rolls-out-loot-box-pre-orders-1847691729
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...emium-player-pack-you-cant-use-until-november
https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/konamis-monetization-of-efootball-already-feels-like-an-own-goal
https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/16/kona...ll-dlc-that-wont-work-till-november-15271273/
the YongYea video
https://clutchpoints.com/pre-order-efootball-loot-boxes-konami/
https://www.videogameschronicle.com...a-40-dlc-pack-that-cant-be-used-for-2-months/

There are people in these articles wondering – fearing – whether this might become some new industry standard, the lootbox preorder. It is, in relative terms, already scummy and worthy of our opprobrium.

And as @staffan noted, the idea that there are no duplicates in these "premium player packs" is not some consolatory and great thing. It is just a different strategy. What it means is that people can pre-order the same pack more than once to ensure they get all the players in this pack. So it drives more sales, encourages more "pay to get ahead" players, and it concerns – so far as we know – only one pack in the game.

Konami are actually being nice

 

[robbieryan]

i wrote out a lot of stuff but i kinda lost the will to post it after i re-read the above post and noticed the konami are being nice line which is quite frankly a disgrace....

instead i will simply ask, when are we expecting the influencer footage from the likes of PES Universe and Spoony? still no news as far as i can tell

 

[janguv]

i wrote out a lot of stuff but i kinda lost the will to post it after i re-read the above post and noticed the konami are being nice line which is quite frankly a disgrace....

instead i will simply ask, when are we expecting the influencer footage from the likes of PES Universe and Spoony? still no news as far as i can tell

I believe they pushed it back to the 23rd. So, if Konami are being nice, expect it on Thursday.

 

[etb10dmk]

I believe they pushed it back to the 23rd. So, if Konami are being nice, expect it on Thursday.

I'll watch it mostly for the dribbling, because the rest doesn't suits me. But be aware that Koinami doesn't run a charity so you should preorder to see the entire gameplay footage, they are nice... 6 mins. ----> +2 more...

EDIT: I forgot to mention: "etc..."