eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (PC)

2021 is a very enjoyable game with the right premises. I used to hate 19/21 era, but once you get the hang of it they can be really fun - with their ups and downs, of course (like for any other Pes). To be honest in this moment I'm kind of in my honeymoon with 21, as I'm having a really inspired Master League and a lot of things that used to not make sense - now do. I started with a low table team, fought to avoid relegation and now that I calmly built a team to fight for Europe.. it's happening as it should. I had the patient to stick with it until I instinctively got down the right approach - which is very different compared with even 18 or onwards. But once you get there, the game rewards you. There is a lot of depth to be discovered.

Then, I also understand it will never be the cup of tea of somebody else - and, exactly as for many other games I like and other people hate, I respect it. Tastes are tastes.

Nonetheless, the game objectively has many positive things, it's simply silly to talk about as if it's Fifa 97 or something.
 
vialli82 said:
Again and again... You repeat the same over and over. Just stop to try.
Just switch that game and that's all.

Fox engine realistic physicality re-transcription much more than super responsive but completely super human.
It's the best football engine made since FIFA PS3, but better, but they didn't mastered it before PES 2020. It's to me the perfect balance between between reactivity and reality.

-I don't feel the same playing vs 2nd division neither, it's over exegeration as i litterally CRUSH them with a good or average team.
-Difficulty level is a total other discussion. It's complicated in sports football especially. the team you play against will be one part of difficulty, the selected difficulty will increase lower teams (if you're good enough they won't be a threat). Personalty i found that game the most challenging i played on PS4.
-I believe that the game is created for PA1. Even if you can get a lot of fun with Manual, but the real game is on PA1, with stats based and more like old style "chess-tactic battle > found the good player to make the good pass or the accurate dribble)
-Free space on the field yes, they re-created a real size pitch since PES 2018, and it's even harder to keep the balance. But that doesn't mean you won't get any interception or midfield battle. They found a way to make the game fun with that large and long pitch. It's an exploit.
-I remember sometimes a debate between having strong keepers for more deviation and more fun. I don't know what to think about it but i don't have anything to reproach to the GK.
-If you play the same way always, the CPU will always counter the same way, as you're making the same opening again and again. It's simple as that.
-Also the game is the most balanced (with PES 2020) you may found on every PES versions with PES 2017. Score are realistic to me at least.
I play 12 minutes games.

Now stop talking bad about PES 2021 :R1 no i'm joking it's a forum and open. But it's the arguments i read that makes me jump from my chair. There's flaws, but you're, for me, not targetting the real flaws of that game. Well to me i totally accept it. One let's say "flaws" is that they didn't included the dribbling system from EFootball on that game. Or some header not as much punchy. Needs like all older football game i replay at least 3 degree of referee severity. Then the fucking regens Etc. Etc.

It's a very good game objectively. Just learn how to play HatTrickHero, you don't stop to complain, then stop playing, then complain, then stop etc.
Perhaps it's you the problem / i mean the way you play and you see script everywhere / more than the game itself.
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Is this a serious post?

Pes2021 is crap trash. Same like eFootball22/23, pes2020 and pes2019 too. And it would be more trash if there were no mods out there.

Scripting/cheating ai, feature less and boring ML mode. Every match was the same from the ai cpu. Every time home team had kickoff, and from this begining they had full offensive and full pressure. But with no subs or something. To the final whisthle.
If I'm rember corectly, one of our gameplay modders out there found in the gp files exe. and dt18 (or so) that in every game the cpu ai had maximum form (the blue arrow ^) for every players. This is really sucking punsh in our ballz
We have to accept that Pes is dead and these card collecting Konami game eCollecting 2022/23 is dead befor it was born.

no offense!
 
Carles P. said:
Is this a serious post?



Pes2021 is crap trash. Same like eFootball22/23, pes2020 and pes2019 too. And it would be more trash if there were no mods out there.



Scripting/cheating ai, feature less and boring ML mode. Every match was the same from the ai cpu. Every time home team had kickoff, and from this begining they had full offensive and full pressure. But with no subs or something. To the final whisthle.

If I'm rember corectly, one of our gameplay modders out there found in the gp files exe. and dt18 (or so) that in every game the cpu ai had maximum form (the blue arrow ^) for every players. This is really sucking punsh in our ballz

We have to accept that Pes is dead and these card collecting Konami game eCollecting 2022/23 is dead befor it was born.

😴

no offense!
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Ffs you sound like a bunch of man u fans complaining you only win 3 nil every week when it should have been 10. Only had one penalty Jesus it is what it is.... a great football simulation probably the best ever, I enjoy it sounds like a lot of others do too... i play ml most days still not bored, I tell you what it's come a long way from the days of actua soccer and kick off 2 Andy Randall would turn in his grave ⚰️⚰️⚰️⚱️⚱️⚱️🪦🪦🪦
 
Just read the previous pages. People's talking in good from that version. Not only me. There's 15-20 previous pages enhancing the game, and you ask me if i'm serious, just to me. That's what we call having the recoil.
To me it's one of the best PES out until know, yes.

Should we scream "PES 5" in every thread or what? It's not neither a perfect game (the one i'm currently playing and it's... A great game, but much more repetitive than PES 2008 PS2 nobody's mention. And one day after 3 games and all my players in form couldn't do anything, not a single pass aimed to the receiver... Impossible to win.

PES 5 got scripting? Or it's me who gets tired? Or the team too strong?
Matter of interpretation.

It's more myself asking if you're serious, as i don't play with your mods as i'm on PS4/5 i would even say : mods kills the final gameplay patch. PES 2021 is better Vanilla with the latest patch than with mods : that's the conclusion we hired after big recoil we got know regarding that game. Same goes from PES 17 : Vanilla final patch > mods (except graphical mods).
And what you call "script" is something like another (the CPU finally matching you) in every games who got an effective AI; i don't talk about variety but effectiveness and challenge.

You know what's the biggest issue of that game? Is that it's called "E-Football / PES". You made the direct link with the current E-Football like if it was the same game. With that type of logic... But not at all, miles from it. And i asked a thousand times proof same as @janguv about the scripts : shows us that the game is "scripted" in the bad way of course. Because every game got scripts as it's part of the program and engine.

Good for you if you found PES 15-16-18 (17 the only good one) better than 19-20-21. To me it's the total opposite, 18 and 16 are from my point of view the worst of the series in terms of balance, referee, keepers etc.
Or perhaps your prefers Fifa PS4 era, i won't trow anything at you even if i don't like what they do since the 15, but it's not thread, until the 19-20 i "understand" doesn't mean i like them. After those two... I prefers to shut up.
 
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vialli82 said:
Just read the previous pages. People's talking in good from that version. Not only me. There's 15-20 previous pages enhancing the game, and you ask me if i'm serious, just to me. That's what we call having the recoil.
To me it's one of the best PES out until know, yes.

Should we scream "PES 5" in every thread or what? It's not neither a perfect game (the one i'm currently playing and it's... A great game, but much more repetitive than PES 2008 PS2 nobody's mention. And one day after 3 games and all my players in form couldn't do anything, not a single pass aimed to the receiver... Impossible to win.

PES 5 got scripting? Or it's me who gets tired? Or the team too strong?
Matter of interpretation.

It's more myself asking if you're serious, as i don't play with your mods as i'm on PS4/5 i would even say : mods kills the final gameplay patch. PES 2021 is better Vanilla with the latest patch than with mods : that's the conclusion we hired after big recoil we got know regarding that game. Same goes from PES 17 : Vanilla final patch > mods (except graphical mods).
And what you call "script" is something like another (the CPU finally matching you) in every games who got an effective AI; i don't talk about variety but effectiveness and challenge.

You know what's the biggest issue of that game? Is that it's called "E-Football / PES". You made the direct link with the current E-Football like if it was the same game. With that type of logic... But not at all, miles from it. And i asked a thousand times proof same as @janguv about the scripts : shows us that the game is "scripted" in the bad way of course. Because every game got scripts as it's part of the program and engine.

Good for you if you found PES 15-16-18 (17 the only good one) better than 19-20-21. To me it's the total opposite, 18 and 16 are from my point of view the worst of the series in terms of balance, referee, keepers etc.
Or perhaps your prefers Fifa PS4 era, i won't trow anything at you even if i don't like what they do since the 15, but it's not thread, until the 19-20 i "understand" doesn't mean i like them. After those two... I prefers to shut up.
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:LOL: PES 5 had the AI missing open goals passing it to a teammate on Superstar. Even the best PES games had their flaws, some people are simply getting too old and stuck in the past. PES 2021 has so many things the PS2 pes could only dream of.
 
My two cents:

To me comparing PES 5 to PES 2021 is like comparing apples and oranges. 🍎 🟠 Two totally different eras and games, each very good in their own right. :)

PES 5 is a hardscrabble classic that has stood the test of time, is really very playable no matter when you try it. Classics are forever.

PES 2021 is a very well made modern game, very fun in its own right and with plenty of atmosphere (I use gameplay mods) :)) It will be remembered for a long time for being the last TRUE PES. Very well supported by the community and will continue to be for a long time.

But they are two completely different games. It's like comparing Super Mario World with Mario Odyssey. Not that one is better than the other, it's like comparing players from different eras.
 
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millossobek said:
My two cents:

To me comparing PES 5 to PES 2021 is like comparing apples and oranges. 🍎 🟠 Two totally different eras and games, each very good in their own right. :)

PES 5 is a hardscrabble classic that has stood the test of time, is really very playable no matter when you try it. Classics are forever.

PES 2021 is a very well made modern game, very fun in its own right and with plenty of atmosphere (I use gameplay mods :)) It will be remembered for a long time for being the last TRUE PES. Very well supported by the community and will continue to be for a long time.

But they are two completely different games. It's like comparing Super Mario World with Mario Odyssey. Not that one is better than the other, it's like comparing players from different eras.
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Get out with all this common sense man! You are clearly out of place here:LOL:
 
Maybe to complete my post.

Konami don't deserve our modders. Our modders deserve much better game devs and game publisher. They don't have 🤑 only in his minds.


If we see how many mods just are here on evoweb for pes2021. It is so shamefull what Coinami did with Pes. Konmai spell on evoweb and other modding communitys. (bit of harsh explaining)

And please don't compare a modded Pes2021 with other games. I only meaning the vanilla Pes2021.


Edit:
And for sure. taste are different.
 
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Speaking about gameplay mods for PES 2021, I wasn't curious at all to try one until yesterday because I was skeptical at first that will enhance so much the vanilla gameplay or the AI behavior, but I must say it surprised me a lot. I was reading for about an hour this new thread created in November (38 pages long), and well, this modder did a really great job: https://evoweb.uk/threads/twiggys-fuma-ml-gameplay-mod.92712/post-3915696
It's already on the v8.2 test version (both for your liking: fuma or assisted settings) and all the details from every version are on the front page where also informs on all the tweaks that he did to enhance the gameplay without transforming it in something else or modifying mechanics at the cost of others.

Because his file is called "Twiggy's FUMA ML Gameplay Mod" I was thinking to dive in directly into ML, because the description of the mod really got me :LOL:.
Besides the gameplay mod I was also applying an extract & play 2022/23 season option file that's also great from Ribas's thread, and I was ready to dive in
( https://evoweb.uk/threads/ps4-ps5-p...22-23-edition-world-cup-update-out-now.91380/ ). I've decided to pick a "fake" team from the "other european teams" called Pordenone because I liked a lot its Logo, and knowing that club has an Italian name I was thinking to start with in Serie B using the original fake lineup. But in the end it turned out after a fast google search that this team really exists in the Italian Serie C, so was even perfect to role play with it in my ML playthrough like a "newly promoted Serie B team" also with that fake manager that's also italian (of course Boninsegna, the default bold chairman that appears in those cutscenes if you play with another manager).

Today I was playing four matches in total. The first one I was playing vs. Como at home and winning 3-1. I liked a lot the approach of the AI with different types of crosses from the distance, lots of faults (they've got a straight red card plus there were some yellows for both sides), and Fabregas opened the score for Como with a peach of a goal: chip shot from a distance to the opposite side of the GK (keepers also are slightly nerfed, but still good on doing their job). The second and the third match were also vs. Como but in the Italian Cup, where away I was loosing 2-1, but I've got a penalty in the '76th minute because two defenders sandwiched me in the box, so I was very pleased to see that after just one match. Then home I was winning 1-0 with a weird floating header that qualified me to the next Italian Cup round: a rebound on contact from the distance that I wasn't thinking that will go into the net (was a little too high). The forth match was vs. Benavento away in the Serie B and finishing it 1-1. I was enjoying a lot that unique contact battle for the ball on the midfield of the pitch more than the previous matches. I was scoring first, then they've got a nice comeback from a corner in the second half, mostly being a 50/50 possession match.

Overall at first glimpse, I was surprised to experience so many weird random plays on the field in just few matches and I was actually pleased to feel that extra push and ambition from the AI, where in the vanilla version those situations were very rare, or almost non existent... It's a bummer that I didn't knew about this mod to search for it earlier in november, but at least the nice part is that now I can experience some refreshing ML/BAL with a more polished version of it...
 
Madmac79 said:
Get out with all this common sense man! You are clearly out of place here:LOL:
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Yeah i clearly didn't wanted to compare each other. But you know, there's always someone coming with "PES 5" as THE argument, just mentioning it (even if it doesn't make sense at all)
I always got a little smile when i read, here for example "But PES 5 etc. bla bla" :LOL:
 
vialli82 said:
Yeah i clearly didn't wanted to compare each other. But you know, there's always someone coming with "PES 5" as THE argument, just mentioning it (even if it doesn't make sense at all)
I always got a little smile when i read, here for example "But PES 5 etc. bla bla" :LOL:
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I wouldn't worry about them. I love PES 5 too but to compare it to PES 2021 is just someone being stuck in the past for me.

My all time favorite is either that or PES 2013 but PES 2021 has thins than both those games simply cant touch. Some things do get better overtime and PES 2021 is the best game right now for your football fix in the year 2023 for me.
 
(Edited)

Well the older one is more like a chess-football-action game, they could've add 360 degree at the time but they decided to "no" (ISS3 got it for example, but no interest in that feature as it was less responsive probably). 80% of the game was defined by stats, but they got the physicality logic right for example making a pass in a wrong position, the ball will slow down and/or your player could fall. Basic logic, not advanced physicality.

While the more recent PES got an approach more relative to freedom, less chess system so, and more physicality took in consideration as the demand or the goal was "the more realistic /physically/ controller in hands as well as visually". That's what i adore in those version, before you couldn't turn like you want but it was defined by stats. Now it's defined by tons of factor and it's never the same regarding the positionning, speed, if you run, and of course players stats.

Perhaps i said bullshit, i don't know, but that my view. I considers PS2 games very very stats based + ball physics and they defined the physics engine while on 2014-20, stats were mixed with real life physics (even if Konami balanced them) and even more in 19-21. Stats still relevant and they managed to make it thanks god, but don't define everything happens on the pitch. Then there's jauge etc.

No, nothing comparable, old or new, with the current or older technology that's for me uncomparable in the way you play it... But i got sensation and fun on Both PES 2008 PS2 aswell as PES 2021 or 2017 : that's all matters.
Yes, there's people stick in the past, but also people open minded with some recoil, i'm on the second category (as i can switch from a 15-20 years old game to PES 2021)
 
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etb10dmk said:
Speaking about gameplay mods for PES 2021, I wasn't curious at all to try one until yesterday because I was skeptical at first that will enhance so much the vanilla gameplay or the AI behavior, but I must say it surprised me a lot. I was reading for about an hour this new thread created in November (38 pages long), and well, this modder did a really great job: https://evoweb.uk/threads/twiggys-fuma-ml-gameplay-mod.92712/post-3915696
It's already on the v8.2 test version (both for your liking: fuma or assisted settings) and all the details from every version are on the front page where also informs on all the tweaks that he did to enhance the gameplay without transforming it in something else or modifying mechanics at the cost of others.

Because his file is called "Twiggy's FUMA ML Gameplay Mod" I was thinking to dive in directly into ML, because the description of the mod really got me :LOL:.
Besides the gameplay mod I was also applying an extract & play 2022/23 season option file that's also great from Ribas's thread, and I was ready to dive in
( https://evoweb.uk/threads/ps4-ps5-p...22-23-edition-world-cup-update-out-now.91380/ ). I've decided to pick a "fake" team from the "other european teams" called Pordenone because I liked a lot its Logo, and knowing that club has an Italian name I was thinking to start with in Serie B using the original fake lineup. But in the end it turned out after a fast google search that this team really exists in the Italian Serie C, so was even perfect to role play with it in my ML playthrough like a "newly promoted Serie B team" also with that fake manager that's also italian (of course Boninsegna, the default bold chairman that appears in those cutscenes if you play with another manager).

Today I was playing four matches in total. The first one I was playing vs. Como at home and winning 3-1. I liked a lot the approach of the AI with different types of crosses from the distance, lots of faults (they've got a straight red card plus there were some yellows for both sides), and Fabregas opened the score for Como with a peach of a goal: chip shot from a distance to the opposite side of the GK (keepers also are slightly nerfed, but still good on doing their job). The second and the third match were also vs. Como but in the Italian Cup, where away I was loosing 2-1, but I've got a penalty in the '76th minute because two defenders sandwiched me in the box, so I was very pleased to see that after just one match. Then home I was winning 1-0 with a weird floating header that qualified me to the next Italian Cup round: a rebound on contact from the distance that I wasn't thinking that will go into the net (was a little too high). The forth match was vs. Benavento away in the Serie B and finishing it 1-1. I was enjoying a lot that unique contact battle for the ball on the midfield of the pitch more than the previous matches. I was scoring first, then they've got a nice comeback from a corner in the second half, mostly being a 50/50 possession match.

Overall at first glimpse, I was surprised to experience so many weird random plays on the field in just few matches and I was actually pleased to feel that extra push and ambition from the AI, where in the vanilla version those situations were very rare, or almost non existent... It's a bummer that I didn't knew about this mod to search for it earlier in november, but at least the nice part is that now I can experience some refreshing ML/BAL with a more polished version of it...
Click to expand...
I assume i am wrong, cause you mention as "fake" and not fake maybe. Pordenone is a real team, they are just now to 3rd Italian Division.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/pordenone-calcio/startseite/verein/21331

I love too, their artistic logo.
 
That 21 is more technically advanced than a Ps2 chapter is pretty obvious. I mean, there are like 15 years something of technologically development in behind.

That said, what do you guys mean with this "stuck in the past" mantra thing always felt nebulous as best, to me. That if you spend hours playing or editing an old game you only do it out of nostalgia and not by the game being good? I mean there is people tinkering and/or enjoying Fifa 16 or Pes 5 or Pes 6 or whatever random chapter since all the time I've been really active here, is their fun less legit cause those games are old? It has less dignity? You think they live in some sort of illusion while you only have the keys to true, pure, proper enjoyment?

I changed my mind quite a bit on 21 in the last 6 months or so and I think it's an excellent game, but of all the arguments to defend it this is truly the worse, meaningless one. And it won't come true no matter how many times you use it.
 
No technically better isn't an argument regarding fun, playability. Of course yes it's visually and technically more realistic. I just underline the differences between the old and past which make them not really comparable in fact. It's not like if it was the exact same gameplay but enhanced by all related to technology.

Whatever, i already said, i don't compare those two but i just pointed out people always came with "PES 5, after PES is dead", so what those guys are still in the forums talking about? And why they don't stop to repeat it on every thread completely off-subject?

Also the same saying that PS4 version are all bad. We talk with the recoil, but i didn't diskliked PES 2015 when it was out. Even if to be honest i wanted a real sequel to PES 2014, no bug version and less input laggy with real keepers.
So they suffers since 2014 to 2023 talking about something they don't like. I just can understand, there's limit in the "loving to hate" lol. That's a bit those guys i considers stuck in the past. Like no other game was good after the PS2 era... I just found it ridiculous.

Also i'm editing PES 5 as we're in the future in comparison and nothing did a very good database neither rectified errors for all players. Neither summers transfers since as you said 15 years.
But i will do the same for PES 2014 PS2 for example lol, just faces will be more fast-recreated.

I agree about the completely different approach and i mentioned it sooner. It was the pinnacle of the first game which make us feel football (Iss Pro Evo or even 98 whatever it's more arcadey... Well it's more frantic but as well balanced as the "Pro" version. Just the graphics, and atmosphere makes me think that the game could be more typed arcade, not the gameplay.

To finish about it : every game got issues but we always dealed with it. Some got too big ones so it's hard to replay. But no football game is almost objectively completely good in every area. I won't say perfect as perfection doesn't exist especially in that world. Then there's tastes, another thing.

Now, Efootball is more advanced in many area than even PES 2021 (dribbling and analog run as an example). And the gen is almost the same.
But one is good, the other is just average... Was good but not superb in the 1.20(?) or whatever version before. I made a cross on that game as the concept doesn't bother me at all, even if they release an offline mode.
 
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Madmac79 said:
That said, what do you guys mean with this "stuck in the past" mantra thing always felt nebulous as best, to me. That if you spend hours playing or editing an old game you only do it out of nostalgia and not by the game being good? I mean there is people tinkering and/or enjoying Fifa 16 or Pes 5 or Pes 6 or whatever random chapter since all the time I've been really active here, is their fun less legit cause those games are old? It has less dignity? You think they live in some sort of illusion while you only have the keys to true, pure, proper enjoyment?
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100% agree. I mean, games are good and people like them regardless of era. I also don't understand the "stuck in the past" thing. Going off topic for a second, I've recently played hours and hours of old retrogaming SNES games like Gradius, Super Mario World, etc.. Does that mean that people who enjoy 16-bit games are "stuck in the past"? Not necessarily. We just enjoy these games, and we can also enjoy newer ones (I really like the newer strategy games, like Nobunaga's Ambition for example). One does not take away from the other.

PES 5 and PES 6 are legitimately good games, as well as PES 2017-2021. (Yes, I do think all of these newer editions are really enjoyable with the right conditions). I think all of these games should be seen under a different light. You cannot compare them under the same microscope. Yet, in the end it's all about answering the following question,which I think is the most important: How much fun are you having playing the game? It's all about the fun factor.

For example, even though it generally did not get good reviews, I've been really enjoying PES 2009 as of late. Is it an older game? Yes. Have I found it fun? Definitely. Fun and enjoyment are the bottom line in every game you play, whether it's Enduro from ATARI or the newest Gran Turismo, whatever. If you enjoy it, then it's good for you. :)

In terms of gameplay mods, I think these can be discussed in this thread since this is the PC version discussion thread, and gameplay mods are part of this experience. I really like some of them, and I think they improve the gaming experience. If this was the console thread, then that would be a different story since the console versions can't be modded in terms of gameplay.
 
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Madmac79 said:
That 21 is more technically advanced than a Ps2 chapter is pretty obvious. I mean, there are like 15 years something of technologically development in behind.

That said, what do you guys mean with this "stuck in the past" mantra thing always felt nebulous as best, to me. That if you spend hours playing or editing an old game you only do it out of nostalgia and not by the game being good? I mean there is people tinkering and/or enjoying Fifa 16 or Pes 5 or Pes 6 or whatever random chapter since all the time I've been really active here, is their fun less legit cause those games are old? It has less dignity? You think they live in some sort of illusion while you only have the keys to true, pure, proper enjoyment?

I changed my mind quite a bit on 21 in the last 6 months or so and I think it's an excellent game, but of all the arguments to defend it this is truly the worse, meaningless one. And it won't come true no matter how many times you use it.
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I mean, when Shales did that legendary art compilation video in the Retro PES thread was also "stuck in the past", right? Look how "stuck in the past" his ass was four months ago:





Oh shite, because of that I watched it so many times in a row and I'm also doomed to be "stuck in the past". All those nerds including myself that are following all those beautiful classic PES discussion/editing threads are doomed to be "stuck in the past".

(Edit: I'm also stuck in the past with his vol. 1 :LOVE:)




Somebody mentioned about PES 2021? :RANT: Well, those also are "stuck in the past" coz' they are playing that game and... Hello ?!?! we're in 2023 now :R1, so those should be on trend with eFootball now. You're listening all day to that classic song named "Beat It !!!" by Michael Jackson or "The Show Must Go On..." from Queen? Ohhh shit mate...You already know what I have to say: you're stuck in the past !!! Instead you should listen to that new Shakira song made in her bedroom with her new 18 years old guy lover that roleplays as a talented DJ.
It is what it is... In our 30's we're already so old and stuck in the past. :CRY:Really mate, my cat FIFI needs pills. (she can't sleep at night because of that...)
 
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Hayes said:
You guys wasting your time to response. Just wait for another few months and same message about "PeS 21 is cRap, It'S Scripted, CpU Cheated, Unplayable, bla bla" will be back. Nothing new really, lol.
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It's ok now he has gone for the greener grass on the other side in a fit of rage. The shitty AI has now penetrated his hardware from last reports. Me just rolls another joint, nice brew and some PES game on. The mind boggles sometimes... Crazy times... crazy people...

God Bless Hideo Kojima and the developer's, you talented modders out there and Evoweb for being a place where these peeps can hang out.
 
Where I think PES dropped the ball compared to the PES5-era, is the overtness in meta-scripting. Lots of expensive words there, but to my mind scripting - which is a necessary part of football games - was much more subtle back then. Hand behind the curtain and all that.

In PES 21, it's overt and in your face. "Thou shalt not play"- those are the WORST games when some kind of overarching script kicks in and you're playing against a scenario. Now granted, with good gameplay mods this happens about 1 in 10 games on any difficulty above Top Player (and I presume more often on Legend, but I never go there), but I currently am in such a spell after having earned a string of hard-fought, beautiful victories...

Alas, the CPU decided I was pulling clear too much of the #2 in the table Man City...and thus the "ML / Season" script is reigning me back in. I can even appreciate the thought process behind it, as staying on top is much harder than getting there in any endeavor. But the fact the game is NOT LETTING ME PLAY - WHEN I SPECIFICALLY BUY A GAME TO, YOU KNOW, PLAY IT - excuse the caps - grinds my gears, takes the jam out of my doughnut, and so on.

I CANNOT stand that, I have to vent here every time it happens. I Just crushed ManU 9-0 (Yes, NINE NIL) in a FA CUP game when lowly Chelsea (in my current ML they are that, at least) just would not allow me to play. You know the symptoms:

- every second ball is for the CPU
- they get a foot in on almost every goddamn pass
- invisible force field prevents you from scoring no matter what
- physical stats are always in favor of the CPU no matter what the actual stats are

sigh....rant over. phew I'm relieved.
 
On my PC i have PES 2021 and PES 2017...

I am playing PES 2021 with default camera the stadium camera...

I am playing PES 2017 with medium camera and settings 10-0-0...

PES 2017 is 100x better than PES 2021...
 
Everyone their own taste (because what you said is a matter of TASTE) but i tested both one after the other and concluded the opposite.
Now with the recoil i'd like PES 2017 better than when i retried it, but still below (rectified) PES 2021 by far. Matter of taste and interest i won't explain why as it will be repetitive (smaller pitch, faster dribbling as they locked the PES 2014 physicality feature of weight shift, so less contact and dynamism in PES 21 as the game got a bigger pitch especially but more realism in motion, more trajectory, animations etc.)
Let's say PES 17 is the 15-16 ultimate version, while 21 is the ultimate 18-19-20 version. As there was big change in the engine between 17 to 18 to 19. Then only on 20-21 they rectified the issues, some prefers 2020 as it's more slow construction etc. others prefers 2021 as it's more dynamic. That's not the only difference but perhaps the most visible.

But is there someone here a bit measured and a bit more mature? 100x better... Please, when you affirm something like that a bit of argumentation.
I'm playing X and Y and Y is 100 times better is not an argument, it's a matter of taste.

I'll be honest, i found PES 2017 too easy against CPU. Otherwhise the game is fun and i take smaller team and that's all matter, even if i miss my so beloved physicality (i don't talk about contact, but weight shift, and tons of differences of speed when you move with a player in tons of different conditions). And i don't feel more invisible wall in 2021 than weird stuff replaying old version like pass at 10 km/h for every player and impossibility to dribble on some games. But in both case : i think it was my fault. When i feel the players lost, there's a solution : not pushing them too strong and play protectively.

A good CPU force you to play differently. Also i would like a vid i asked a thousand times about scripts, invisible wall, etc.
There's a lot for FIFA / and i ain't even sure if the outcome are just bugs not especially scripts / but i got nothing for PES. Share, prove it, because i don't really feel or understand what you (on plural) means about it as i don't really feel something THAT wrong and so obvious.
 
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Madmac79 said:
That 21 is more technically advanced than a Ps2 chapter is pretty obvious. I mean, there are like 15 years something of technologically development in behind.

That said, what do you guys mean with this "stuck in the past" mantra thing always felt nebulous as best, to me. That if you spend hours playing or editing an old game you only do it out of nostalgia and not by the game being good? I mean there is people tinkering and/or enjoying Fifa 16 or Pes 5 or Pes 6 or whatever random chapter since all the time I've been really active here, is their fun less legit cause those games are old? It has less dignity? You think they live in some sort of illusion while you only have the keys to true, pure, proper enjoyment?

I changed my mind quite a bit on 21 in the last 6 months or so and I think it's an excellent game, but of all the arguments to defend it this is truly the worse, meaningless one. And it won't come true no matter how many times you use it.
Click to expand...

What I mean by stuck in the past is some refuse to embrace anything that is good about the PS4 era PES games or even PS3 era games yet refuse to accept despite how great PES was on the PS2 it had its flaws people ignored because of how good it was at the time.

I need to make time to update my baby in E4Y for PES 2013, yeah i mean PES 2021 is better but still love that game. Not sure why this feeling insecure about playing older games came from. I play retro games all the time with a close mate. fun is fun whatever era.

But refusing to embrace what newer games do better than older games is my definition of just being stuck in the past. I mean I loved playing my E4Y patch going through all the past world cups in detail in one, however I'd like to do the same but using PES 2021 as that game has elements PES 2013 or PES 5 cant touch. Some people are literally cult like in thinking everything past PES 5 & 6 is trash, that opinion got boring a very long time ago as we have moved on from those times in technology.
 
I could even say the way dribbling is done on Efootball with inertia on i don't remember which version was the best created ever, with the analog very sensitive from slow to fast.
So much more possibilty than just pushing one button to run. But if they remove inertia or weight shift etc, i'd rather prefers a thousand time to dribble and run on PES 21. That's why i always preferred PES dribbling against Fifa : you could move like in EFootball but without algorithm regarding weight shift and reality for not saying "logic to turn slower at 180 degree than at 40".
 
vialli82 said:
I could even say the way dribbling is done on Efootball with inertia on i don't remember which version was the best created ever, with the analog very sensitive from slow to fast.
So much more possibilty than just pushing one button to run. But if they remove inertia or weight shift etc, i'd rather prefers a thousand time to dribble and run on PES 21. That's why i always preferred PES dribbling against Fifa : you could move like in EFootball but without algorithm regarding weight shift and reality for not saying "logic to turn slower at 180 degree than at 40".
Click to expand...

Yeah, the main reason i have been on efootball was because of the dribbling is the best system we have ever seen initially on version 1.0.0 but since then is nullified by cheeseball defending system we have in basically 2.0.0 onwards. That game is still a hollow shell hence why I'm back on PES 2021 :)
 
Got a question about PES 2021... Or 2022 to ask you. It's for when i will edit the PS4 version.
 
koningfrikandel said:
Where I think PES dropped the ball compared to the PES5-era, is the overtness in meta-scripting. Lots of expensive words there, but to my mind scripting - which is a necessary part of football games - was much more subtle back then. Hand behind the curtain and all that.

In PES 21, it's overt and in your face. "Thou shalt not play"- those are the WORST games when some kind of overarching script kicks in and you're playing against a scenario. Now granted, with good gameplay mods this happens about 1 in 10 games on any difficulty above Top Player (and I presume more often on Legend, but I never go there), but I currently am in such a spell after having earned a string of hard-fought, beautiful victories...

Alas, the CPU decided I was pulling clear too much of the #2 in the table Man City...and thus the "ML / Season" script is reigning me back in. I can even appreciate the thought process behind it, as staying on top is much harder than getting there in any endeavor. But the fact the game is NOT LETTING ME PLAY - WHEN I SPECIFICALLY BUY A GAME TO, YOU KNOW, PLAY IT - excuse the caps - grinds my gears, takes the jam out of my doughnut, and so on.

I CANNOT stand that, I have to vent here every time it happens. I Just crushed ManU 9-0 (Yes, NINE NIL) in a FA CUP game when lowly Chelsea (in my current ML they are that, at least) just would not allow me to play. You know the symptoms:

- every second ball is for the CPU
- they get a foot in on almost every goddamn pass
- invisible force field prevents you from scoring no matter what
- physical stats are always in favor of the CPU no matter what the actual stats are

sigh....rant over. phew I'm relieved.
Click to expand...
Wasn't done yet. Still haven't found a way to counter it. I want each match to end as soon as it starts. The fucking game just will NOT allow me to play. Defenders are on me like flies on shit. All my attempts are frustrated, blocked or I don't know. My own players get in the way of my dribbling lanes, purposely. Tried new mods again , to no avail.

How do others cope with this? It's unbearable. As soon as the particular script I describe is gone though, it's so very good. The only reason I keep hanging on. I just want some goddamn consistency here.
 
Just installed PES 21 (Smokepatch Football Life) on my steam deck, who'd have thought you'd be able to have this running locally hand held. Looks really good too
 
This thing about scritping and having video proof of it, is kind of hard to show to be honest. I still play pes 2021 and I may well be one of the guys here that has the longest run on the same ML save. I've played my career through about 5 or 6 clubs and more than 15 seasons. Usually I used to start in a small portuguese team until I get invitation to Benfica. When I'm bored I accept some other contract. Liverpool, Man City, Rangers, Celtic, Anderlecht, and now Benfica again. Some things might get a bit crazy after all these seasons, like player value getting extremelly high (I just sold William for 500.000.000). I don´t look at it as stupid, but as a consequence of the market, even if it's not realistic.

On the gameplay though, the story repeats on any league. I always have a nice, quiet, friendly start. Then a shit storm hits the team and I can see it coming. Then, on the final 10 or 15 matches, everything goes back to "normal", almost looks like the game is giving me a chance to fight back.
Also, on most matches, this "shit storm" moment exists. I learned to live with it and pretend it's a part of the deal. Sometimes I hate it, sometimes I just put my controller down, take a deep breath, and pick it up again and finish the match with a sense of pure frustration and the question "why... WHY?.." on my head.

I have dig enough on this game to learn a couple things, one of them, and it was a major one, is the use of specific players, with specific traits, to each position. I change their roles depending on what I want them to do on the match, and I believe that no other game has done this as good as PES 2021 does... so yes, to me it's the best game ever. Being able to build a team around a certain mentality, and choosing the tools and weapons to make your way to the top is very satisfying. This also means I'm aware of what my team is capable of. So understand me if I get frustrated when Ronaldo has 5 consecutive attempts on target, almost clear chances, and none goes in. I'm already experienced at this, so I know I already saw lot's of real life situations like this. Every club has that day where nothing good happens, and every chance is missed against all odds. It happens. But this game loves to show it to much sometimes. It's noticeable. On those matches, I realised that at the end, things change a little bit, and sometimes it even gets easy, but I might be too frustrated to score and I still miss the chance to equalise or even win the match.

Is it interesting? Yes, by all means. But it happens very regularly and very obviously to say it's not frustrating sometimes.

Examples?
On every match, after I score, the CPU always gets a chance. ALWAYS. I know that it's trying to represent an urgent response from the opponent to the goal I just scored, but it always ends of some kind of dangerous effort, a shot, a corner, a free kick... whatever.
On some matches, more than I would like to have, after I score the first goal, my team dominates and creates 3, 4, 5 or more clear chances... but there's always something... some kind of invisible barrier, a miss, a player sliping and loosing balance on the moment of the shot even if it's running alone with no pressure, etc.
When nothing seems to work for the CPU, then things get a little strange, like first time 30m+ passes finishing with a dangerous shot, or a ball that goes through my defenders 3 times in a row, even when their are clearly blocking the obvious lane.
These things can all happen in real life, sure. But it's small things so obvious that make you say, at that particular moment, "of course... what else".

All teams, like I said, have a bad run sometimes. But it's not always on the first cup round, not always on a derby match, not always when the direct league adversary looses their match... In PES 2021, it's a rule.

It's a love hate relationship and I'm just there beacause the good moments clearly overcome the bad ones.
 
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