eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)

I like pes20 unpatched because on superstar(FUMA),against the AI in exhibition.I can set up my tactics and advanced tactics and have a very solid and enjoyable game of football..Without all the scripted BS that goes on in all the other modes.Yes there is scripting but most of the time cpu exploits can be countered or defended..Your never rendered powerless.You also get the overall feeling the game is also scripting for you much like pes on the ps2.Its the demo gameplay slightly more optimised.Im also able to draw many fouls and win free kicks by drawing the opposition in and ball retention.I also play alot of 1vs1..

Post patch the games a absolute mess and full of in-consistencies.Imo frustrating and the scripting outside of exhibition is even more rampant.Players freezing not reacting is also more prevalent..It’s just not the same game imo.

I find the other game hollow and despite all the shortcomings of pes currently.I’m of the believe the gameplay(playability)..and overall level of control(FUMA)is superior.Ive always preferred the SIM/ARCADE gameplay of pes.That said I’ve played every FIFA since 09 religiously as I have every pes.I only skipped FIFA 20(until recently).Again I play FIFA manual on the hardest difficulties so do appreciate its layers,technical execution and polish(despite its watered down basics).

My standards our as high as anyone else’s..I’m one of the oldies that played every pes and ISS back in the day and I was a devoted importer(Perfect striker/Winning eleven)..

There’s no denial with me,be it bugs,scripting or out right bad coding.My posts both this year and last show I’m just as aware as everybody else and have the same standards when it comes to the basics of football.

I don’t feel bullied or picked on and just want people to understand that I’m not any different.My standards for pes are just as high..

Back to pes 21....which doesn’t change my opinion of pes20.
 
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Dr Force said:
[


shockingly shite, vanilla, strawberry, summer fruits or blueberry.....it’s a masterpiece in how not to programme a football game......thinking positively changes nothing...............it simply helps to justify parting with more money.
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Got it. :LOL:
Well, it’s still up to you how you spent your money. ;)

edit: Thinking positive to what’s ahead! Should have made that more clear. :)
 
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StrangelyEnough said:
I like pes20 unpatched because on superstar(FUMA),against the AI in exhibition.I can set up my tactics and advanced tactics and have a very solid and enjoyable game of football..Without all the scripted BS that goes on in all the other modes.Yes there is scripting but most of the time cpu exploits can be countered or defended..Your never rendered powerless.You also get the overall feeling the game is also scripting for you much like pes on the ps2.Its the demo gameplay slightly more optimised.Im also able to draw many fouls and win free kicks by drawing the opposition in and ball retention.I also play alot of 1vs1..

Post patch the games a absolute mess and full of in-consistencies.Imo frustrating and the scripting outside of exhibition is even more rampant.Players freezing not reacting is also more prevalent..It’s just not the same game imo.

I find the other game hollow and despite all the shortcomings of pes currently.I’m of the believe the gameplay(playability)..and overall level of control(FUMA)is superior.Ive always preferred the SIM/ARCADE gameplay of pes.That said I’ve played every FIFA since 09 religiously as I have every pes.I only skipped FIFA 20(until recently).Again I play FIFA manual on the hardest difficulties so do appreciate its layers,technical execution and polish(despite its watered down basics).

My standards our as high as anyone else’s..I’m one of the oldies that played every pes and ISS back in the day and I was a devoted importer(Perfect striker/Winning eleven)..

There’s no denial with me,be it bugs,scripting or out right bad coding.My posts both this year and last show I’m just as aware as everybody else and have the same standards when it comes to the basics of football.

I don’t feel bullied or picked on and just want people to understand that I’m not any different.My standards for pes are just as high..

Back to pes 21....which doesn’t change my opinion of pes20.
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That's such a shame,that the only way to fully enjoy Pes nowadays,is playing exhibition games.
Me too feel the same way.
I play ML on Pes 17+18,19 I play League mode (ML unplayable).
This year (Pes 20) is the first year you can't enjoy League mode, every other Pes game,even if ML is unplayable (due to bad gameplay or scripting) you can always revert to League mode,but for Pes 20 that's impossible,it's so busted up and badly coded,it's as bad there as in ML.
Horrible development of this game
 
Could sb tell me will this update bring anything else besides squad updates, I mean gameplay issues like referee behaviour, players response, handball, var ? Is it sense to buy it ?
 
rockstrongo said:
That's such a shame,that the only way to fully enjoy Pes nowadays,is playing exhibition games.
Me too feel the same way.
I play ML on Pes 17+18,19 I play League mode (ML unplayable).
This year (Pes 20) is the first year you can't enjoy League mode, every other Pes game,even if ML is unplayable (due to bad gameplay or scripting) you can always revert to League mode,but for Pes 20 that's impossible,it's so busted up and badly coded,it's as bad there as in ML.
Horrible development of this game
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Our viewpoint has always been the same with pes..Like me you appreciate the aesthetics of pes and the feeling on the stick and ball..Likewise with pes18 and 19 which I spent a great deal of time playing(unpatched)..I’ve gone the same way with the other game and always enjoyed the gameplay more pre patch then post.

Its a shame they have to resort to so much artificial difficulty/scripting on the higher levels and modes,because as you know the gameplay outside of that creates so many user generated moments(even on top player and superstar).The gameplay doesn’t warrant that level of scripting or does it really need it..

Patching has done more damage over the years then good...but what choice do many have if they want to use option files or have the cosmetic extra’s through data packs.

Pes20 is the worst example of a pretty solid demo and alpha that just needed more optimisation,less scripting,ruined through patching imo.
 
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StrangelyEnough said:
Our viewpoint has always been the same with pes..Like me you appreciate the aesthetics of pes and the feeling on the stick and ball..Likewise with pes18 and 19 which I spent a great deal of time playing(unpatched)..

Its a shame they have to resort to so much artificial difficulty on the higher levels and modes,because as you know the gameplay outside of that creates so many user generated moments(even on top player and superstar..The gameplay doesn’t warrant that level of scripting or does it really need it..

Patching has done more damage over the years then good...but what choice do many have if they want use option files or have the cosmetic extra through data packs.
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Yeah,your kinda locked in if you want new kits/boots etc with data packs.

I've said this before,but I think it's time for us consumers to be able to chose which version you want to play.
There's other games with that option (NHL) and shouldn't be that tough to implement.

Can't remember which version I kept offline for 5-6 months,probably 18,but one slip and it got patched.
 
NorD. said:
Could sb tell me will this update bring anything else besides squad updates, I mean gameplay issues like referee behaviour, players response, handball, var ? Is it sense to buy it ?
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personally I’d wait for reviews on gameplay before deciding, nobody knows yet
 
DarthKebab said:
personally I’d wait for reviews on gameplay before deciding, nobody knows yet
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Ive got it..But I’ve expressed my views on what I feel are some of the improvements..

Im going to leave it at that though because I don’t want to be perceived as working for Konami or trying to get a few extra sales(brainwashing)..Plus it will more then likely make the thread just explode(its safer this way).

Its more then just a strait update though..or roster change.Going to chime in with others when they’ve got the game.
 
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Ameppe said:
Ive got it..But I’ve expressed my views on what I feel are some of the improvements..

Im going to leave it at that though because I don’t want to be perceived as working for Konami or trying to get a few extra sales(brainwashing)..Plus it will more then likely make the thread just explode(its safer this way).

Its more then just a strait update though..or rooster change.Going to chime in with others when they’ve got the game.
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They've finally changed the rooster??!
Thank god!!


Sorry...couldn't help myself.
 
incas36 said:
I don't think a new engine can solve these problems. Let's take a look at the Demo (loose of the ball, reactions, collisions and physical on the pitch) and now take a look at latest patch. Engine is the same but gameplay is blatantly different.! Nah this is poor /absence of attentions to offline players and max attention to players who pay money in microtransactions. Hey Konami, too many fouls, they break the ping pongy game! Oh, sorry childs, you're right, let's scratch them!!!! I think devs are able to do a good gameplay, a real soccer sim but this means a hard match on the pitch, you have to think, you've to choose the right tactic and change it during the match. But, hey Konami are you joking? It's sooooo difficult this game, I want push 3 keys on my pad and play a match! Oh, sorry childs, you're right, too much difficult, not fun, et voilà a new patch for you dear payers!
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EXACTLY. And the worse of this is that there's many players of us offline players that would play online if it was a Football Simulator instead of a crap copy of FIFA or even worse, a ping pong game.

I am playing Jostike games -2 speed Full manual (passing and shooting) in SS, up to 90 minutes with sider, and aside from a few things, the game is freaking amazing. Better/more human reactions from CPU, a much fair fouling system (in fact maybe too leaned towards player due to CPU always being late and fouling) and still, the game turns to be diffcult due to high pressure from the CPU. I miss maybe the CPU being able to follow up just a bit better when you dribble them, and being able to dribble with physicality for more time without being the ball taken. Also, much more pressure specially from user AI players on the pass reception, but aside from those things, the game's almost perfect.

They could do this for online. They simply don't want to. But don't worry, guys. WE ARE THE RESISTANCE. We will keep modding the game on and again, and if PES 2020 was close to perfection, this following year, having in count how little it changes, we can achieve it.

And once that the new engine kicks in... Well... I expect the developers to at least deliver a very good base for a football simulator. Like having the intention. Then they will probably fuck it up with the AI, the ping-pong gameplay, etc., but never mind, because sooner or later, as long as we have real good animations and ball physics, we can sort out the rest as we've been doing all these years, specially with a better engine, better prepare for modding, that could even lead to code injections, if we are lucky enough, or code filtrations, if we are even more lucky. This was impossible with Fox Engine due to it being a completely closed engine, but now with UE5, the possibilities open much more!!! However, we have to start from ground again. I hope that we can have something decent by 2024, or 2025, being more realistic. Took 7 games in Fox Engine to almost achive a simulator (14-20), but due to UE5 bieng more open, I expect community learning much faster and being able to tweak many more parameters.

Now let's see what this new generation will bring us. For the momment, let's enjoy the beautiful gameplay that community has achieved for us in PES 2020, and let's enjoy the one they will bring us with PES 2021. Future will come later, and we will be prepared.
 
ai vs ai always look better than human vs ai
because they don't read each other moves and then cheat
you can try it in 2020 by spectating ai vs ai, the game doesn't look bad as much as human vs ai
the problem is when you control it vs ai, ai would read your input and play for win
hence the game will have less variety and freedom compare to ai vs ai
 
NorD. said:
Could sb tell me will this update bring anything else besides squad updates, I mean gameplay issues like referee behaviour, players response, handball, var ? Is it sense to buy it ?
Click to expand...

Its a complete overhaul according to those who sell and endorse the game and you should play (pay for it) before commenting on it. However if you look at the official changelog from Konami and any gameplay videos you can see its the same game.
 
Flame said:
ai vs ai always look better than human vs ai
because they don't read each other moves and then cheat
you can try it in 2020 by spectating ai vs ai, the game doesn't look bad as much as human vs ai
the problem is when you control it vs ai, ai would read your input and play for win
hence the game will have less variety and freedom compare to ai vs ai
Click to expand...

Probably the script and cheating AI that is very apparent against humans especially in Master league and competitions it's disabled when there is an AI vs AI matches.

They programmed the game to be artificially harder while playing against humans and by harder i mean absolutely unfair. Starting with top player difficulty every team and every player loses its particular stats and becomes a scripted entity.

That's why you don't see player or team individuality anymore, at those difficulties you are playing against a poorly programmed AI that completely removes player stats and particular abilities.

Players mechanically adhere to tactics, with no nuance at all, they have no awareness of the ball whatsoever, they react way too slowly and only after you tell them they can actually take the ball, the automatic cursor switch doesn't understand it way too frequently, they don't take decisions based on few different outcomes, they only know one way to react.

I can already see it in those videos. I already saw so many situations where players are going forward helping attackers and then suddenly they rush back the exact moment the opposing team takes the ball. They immediately switch from the offensive attitude to the defensive one, there is no middle ground. Even if they know they can regain the ball if they press a little bit, the moment they lose the ball it's like they go completely crazy and the only thing they think is "defend! defend!" That's also why there is no midfield at all and it's so easy to run from one side to the other. Teams don't even try to contain opposing team at midfield, they just retreat defending.

AI in Fox Engine games has been really really poor.

Look at this at 20:41 Tottenham player. He could try to move to intercept the ball, he could try sliding to take it it's so close, he just stands there and even turning the head like it's thinking "Where am i?"

 
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I got the game yesterday and played about 10 exhibition games and then played 2 pes2020 ones to compare and imo no game play changes at all! Response the same and right stick dribble just as ineffective. Pointless to start a ml until day 1 update or wait until 22nd of oct full transfer update but i did load one up to check if youth players had changed but they haven't! (Utter lazyness as this could of been changed by konami in a day or 2) And if my "bug bear" transfer listed players can be bought at listed price or less but no this also remains broken! So despite the salesman pitch last week about gameplay changes it appears as the title suggests it is a lick of paint update with updated kits and less licences but hey everything will be sorted with the day one patch lol 🤦🏻‍♂️
 
Over the weekend last few days on 20 this is what I've found not sure if it's new or not and I'll bec carryingthis over to 21 , takes about one minute per team

AI teams not user
attacking max support
defensive max height
defensive compact max
front line pressure

advanced tactics
anchor at least one central midfielder
genpress
genpress

fluid formation on
Team by ability
offside on
rival team put your team against all AI teams in league
.
the AI for me looks for the easiest route to goal so if you have wide tactics for AI it will nearly always go long and also rarely shoot from distance as it has better options . With the compact set high reducing the space and options I've seen a few shots from 30-35 yards

also the genpress and frontline pressure stops them running back to their own box and with the less space and tired AI due to genpress I've seen more fouls - 7 against chelsea as an example in a 12 Min match
Also user subs have an impact late on as the genpress increases fatigue as I noticed for my team when I had it on
might be worth a try
 
Also here at 24:55

What the hell is Inter defender doing? Leaving so much space to the attacker and just jogging? Probably it's not his role, so the game doesn't tell him it's a very dangerous situation. His role AI overwrites the contextual AI and he just behaves like nothing is happening


And the Inter player here at 25:50 making the hold up play move so far from the player actually having the ball


There are so many situations like these i could post hundreds of examples but i will stop here.

I just checked and it seems match difficulty is regular, but even then those are shockingly bad movements by AI.
 
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Ameppe said:
Also here at 24:55

What the hell is Inter defender doing? Leaving so much space to the attacker and just jogging? Probably it's not his role, so the game doesn't tell him it's a very dangerous situation. His role AI overwrites the contextual AI and he just behaves like nothing is happening

Click to expand...
TBH I think he played in regular level in this video as you could see his setting when he started ml
I agree with you and I couldn't see 2021 has any noticeable gameplay difference at all atm
 
Ameppe said:
Probably the script and cheating AI that is very apparent against humans especially in Master league and competitions it's disabled when there is an AI vs AI matches.

They programmed the game to be artificially harder while playing against humans and by harder i mean absolutely unfair. Starting with top player difficulty every team and every player loses its particular stats and becomes a scripted entity.

That's why you don't see player or team individuality anymore, at those difficulties you are playing against a poorly programmed AI that completely removes player stats and particular abilities.

Players mechanically adhere to tactics, with no nuance at all, they have no awareness of the ball whatsoever, they react way too slowly and only after you tell them they can actually take the ball, the automatic cursor switch doesn't understand it way too frequently, they don't take decisions based on few different outcomes, they only know one way to react.

I can already see it in those videos. I already saw so many situations where players are going forward helping attackers and then suddenly they rush back the exact moment the opposing team takes the ball. They immediately switch from the offensive attitude to the defensive one, there is no middle ground. Even if they know they can regain the ball if they press a little bit, the moment they lose the ball it's like they go completely crazy and the only thing they think is "defend! defend!" That's also why there is no midfield at all and it's so easy to run from one side to the other. Teams don't even try to contain opposing team at midfield, they just retreat defending.

AI in Fox Engine games has been really really poor.

Look at this at 20:41 Tottenham player. He could try to move to intercept the ball, he could try sliding to take it it's so close, he just stands there and even turning the head like it's thinking "Where am i?"

Click to expand...
Agree massively with your points about the mechanical adherence to tactics and the retreating. I can’t stand that aspect of modern pes games. It eliminates the intellectual challenge of working your way up the pitch and games are all the same. I’m not convinced it’s strictly an engine problem as this wasn’t really the case with 2014. The midfield/transition positioning in that game was very good.
 
Upthedons said:
I got the game yesterday and played about 10 exhibition games and then played 2 pes2020 ones to compare and imo no game play changes at all! Response the same and right stick dribble just as ineffective. Pointless to start a ml until day 1 update or wait until 22nd of oct full transfer update but i did load one up to check if youth players had changed but they haven't! (Utter lazyness as this could of been changed by konami in a day or 2) And if my "bug bear" transfer listed players can be bought at listed price or less but no this also remains broken! So despite the salesman pitch last week about gameplay changes it appears as the title suggests it is a lick of paint update with updated kits and less licences but hey everything will be sorted with the day one patch lol 🤦🏻‍♂️
Click to expand...

Shouldn't you already have day one patch? I read that they already released it.
 
Ok, this is Superstar difficulty

Look at how much space Fred is given to run until the edge of penalty area just because every other player just follows his role and doesn't even try to stop him

There is Ozil that just stands there since defending is not his role and watches Fred go even if he could try to press him and steal the ball.


Here at 11:07 Bruno Fernandes, making his run to attack thinks "oh the ball is a bit too far, i can't reach it", "oh damn, the opponent team took the ball let's rush back even if i could try to press and steal the ball"


Just a couple of examples to show that AI wrong behaviour is very frequent even at high difficulty levels and how much roles and tactics override the contextual AI
 
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Ameppe said:
Probably the script and cheating AI that is very apparent against humans especially in Master league and competitions it's disabled when there is an AI vs AI matches.

They programmed the game to be artificially harder while playing against humans and by harder i mean absolutely unfair. Starting with top player difficulty every team and every player loses its particular stats and becomes a scripted entity.

That's why you don't see player or team individuality anymore, at those difficulties you are playing against a poorly programmed AI that completely removes player stats and particular abilities.

Players mechanically adhere to tactics, with no nuance at all, they have no awareness of the ball whatsoever, they react way too slowly and only after you tell them they can actually take the ball, the automatic cursor switch doesn't understand it way too frequently, they don't take decisions based on few different outcomes, they only know one way to react.

I can already see it in those videos. I already saw so many situations where players are going forward helping attackers and then suddenly they rush back the exact moment the opposing team takes the ball. They immediately switch from the offensive attitude to the defensive one, there is no middle ground. Even if they know they can regain the ball if they press a little bit, the moment they lose the ball it's like they go completely crazy and the only thing they think is "defend! defend!" That's also why there is no midfield at all and it's so easy to run from one side to the other. Teams don't even try to contain opposing team at midfield, they just retreat defending.

AI in Fox Engine games has been really really poor.

Look at this at 20:41 Tottenham player. He could try to move to intercept the ball, he could try sliding to take it it's so close, he just stands there and even turning the head like it's thinking "Where am i?"

Click to expand...

He plays on Regular.....turned off the video there :D
 
Upthedons said:
There was a 1.01 update but i was hoping for another one when online options are open on day one which will be tuesday?
Click to expand...

That's the one, now you can't go online just because servers are still closed. Next one will be in October 22nd.
 
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