eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)

[Chris Davies]

Presuming that means refereeing - which begs the question, if they've not completely rewritten the physicality system (which they haven't)

Haven’t or Wont?..That’s pure speculation..

Of course they haven't "rewritten the physicality system". That's not a tweak. That's a full-blown development job. Whatever they have done can only be a tweak of the existing system, because they have categorically stated they are full-time developing PES 2022 (to the point of branding 2021 as a "season update" so that nobody tries to sue them for publishing a near-identical game for the price of a new one).

The base(version 1)actually had logic and cohesion..and wasn’t as broken as the game after the update.

Imo a descent base that at a pure coding level can or could be improved..You can’t do these things via a simple patch or update.

V1 had better logic and cohesion, sure.

It also had players colliding and staggering away from each other, using the same animation, in opposite directions, like some kind of "synchronised swimming without the water" display, with nobody running towards the loose ball, because the system is so outdated that the recoiling players are considered the only "active" players and everyone else is 100% committed to running to their pixel-perfect position as defined by the formation.

Good example of that last bit here from V1 - i.e. players unaware of what's happening and just stupidly running to their "ball has entered X part of the pitch, player runs to Y pixel on the pitch" position, with no awareness of the play in-front of them (and the defender "jogs on the spot" as I try to move him):



As I said the other day. V1 was better. But was it THAT much better, that it deserves to be regarded as if it didn't have these issues? Come on!

This is what we might end up going back to. Imagine the referee blowing his whistle once every 30 seconds for things that aren't fouls. This is from V1.



Would I rather have these non-fouls back than have no fouls at all? Yes...
...I'd also rather that someone kicked me in the bollocks than chopped my head off. That doesn't make me grateful for either.

This was a video I put together from the demo - and don't tell me that, on V1, you don't see any of this stuff.

 

[PRO_TOO]

eFootballpes2021 has several changes.
- Polishing in every graphic part of the game (stadiums, uniforms)
- Dribbling + agile (R3) = Responsive
- Improved impact motor (AI prevents shocks)
- Improved refereeing
- Scoreboards with different colors in each league

When R3 is „pressing the right stick“ and RS is actually the control feature... well...

 

[*aLe]

You can’t do these things via a simple patch or update.

Forgive me the question which may sound stupid, but... Why not? When you replace the .exe file, you basically can write whatever you want in it. And you can deliver updated gameplay files (the ones in the DT18) via data packs, and different stats via a new DB and a new EDIT/Live Update.

It's not that they can't, it's that they won't (unless it's absolutely necessary, see PES 2014 which seemed broken beyond repair at release but got better with patches during the year even with its shortcomings).

 

[AntonyC_PESCustomFaces]

Ι don't know if this is the proper place to discuss about it, as it is the 2021 topic here, but this reminds me some reverse-enginering of the exploit formations the "pro players" use in online PvP.

I remember once in reddit, a so called "pro player" explained about those formations, when they appear like Z-style formation, or Sword-style formation, or All in one staright line formation, or half in the one corner and half in the other corner-formation, or the big anchor-formation

He explained that pulling players in such "unorthodox" positions in gameplan, in combination with the bad awareness of the opponent CPU control teamates , the bad response times while cursor changing, the tendeny of players while positioning, to collapse to their staring points, despite where is the action in the field, creates some extra space and time, and takes more time for the P1 who controls one or two players with second pressure, to place his players near the action.

The discusion was how those cheesy formations without any midfiled do work in 2020.
Maybe something similar, or mirror-reverse happens here.

The reddit post below is an example of such a formation. Not the actual discussion i described previously.

I wasn’t aware of these unorthodox formations. But the reason how this came about, is because I just had a sense of rage at how scripted and cheaty PES 2020 (soon to be PES2021) felt. So, I was like... FUCK YOU Konami, I’ll win this damn game whether you want me too or not. That was how this formation came about, and it turned out be a wonderful spectacle.

 

[5_Gullit]

Robbye Ron also said that defenders low awareness still happens, although is more rare.

 

[slamsoze]

I wasn’t aware of these unorthodox formations. But the reason how this came about, is because I just had a sense of rage at how scripted and cheaty PES 2020 (soon to be PES2021) felt. So, I was like... FUCK YOU Konami, I’ll win this damn game whether you want me too or not. That was how this formation came about, and it turned out be a wonderful spectacle.

Yep, spot on. I assume the core-base of the game has fault on this part of positioning and transition, no midfield game being a proof of this. I believe if you combine your fluid tactic for CPU team with a very narrow tactic for your team, like a 4-4-2, with 4 CB and DMF-CMF-CMF-AMF, you will create a solid axis formation , the so called Axe or Sword formation, where you can spam 1-2 all day. Even with error in passing, if the opponenet team is so wide while defending with so far distances, it will be very difficult for the CPU controled player , to evaluate the situation, if they must collapse or press the action.

IIRC the F. Santos formation in MyClub was like this, 4-4-2 with DMF-CMF-CMF-AMF and was/is overused. The 4 CB part though, is something people exploit. The proper formation is 2 SB and 2 CB as in real life.

 

[StrangelyEnough]

Of course they haven't "rewritten the physicality system". That's not a tweak. That's a full-blown development job. Whatever they have done can only be a tweak of the existing system, because they have categorically stated they are full-time developing PES 2022 (to the point of branding 2021 as a "season update" so that nobody tries to sue them for publishing a near-identical game for the price of a new one).


V1 had better logic and cohesion, sure.

It also had players colliding and staggering away from each other, using the same animation, in opposite directions, like some kind of "synchronised swimming without the water" display, with nobody running towards the loose ball, because the system is so outdated that the recoiling players are considered the only "active" players and everyone else is 100% committed to running to their pixel-perfect position as defined by the formation.

Good example of that last bit here from V1 - i.e. players unaware of what's happening and just stupidly running to their "ball has entered X part of the pitch, player runs to Y pixel on the pitch" position, with no awareness of the play in-front of them (and the defender "jogs on the spot" as I try to move him):



As I said the other day. V1 was better. But was it THAT much better, that it deserves to be regarded as if it didn't have these issues? Come on!

This is what we might end up going back to. Imagine the referee blowing his whistle once every 30 seconds for things that aren't fouls. This is from V1.



Would I rather have these non-fouls back than have no fouls at all? Yes...
...I'd also rather that someone kicked me in the bollocks than chopped my head off. That doesn't make me grateful for either.

This was a video I put together from the demo - and don't tell me that, on V1, you don't see any of this stuff.

I don’t remember at any point claiming I want V1 back or being in any kind of denial that these issues didn’t exist.But in comparison to what happened after the first patch and how the game regressed it was the best trade off..I didn’t hang around on the forum to beat the merits of the vanilla version of the game.Even though I personally felt the changes broke the game on so many levels.

That meant I was able to play the game how I perceive the developer wanted it..Not the community and knee jerk reactions based off a demo.

Irrespective of your opinion Chris,I believe there’s so many pluses in this game that it could be polished into something greater then the cut allowed late last autumn.

More refinement and a lot more optimisation..It’s what they did brilliantly in the past and I’m watering at the mouth to see what they’ve done with this game over a 2 year period..

I never believe the placebo pill that ea and Konami churn out every year that patches post launch are going to have this massive impact on gameplay or bring in wholesale bigger refinements(it’s impossible once a games physically shipped)..This though is a very different propersition.

 

[Simcut]

Hey everyone, been quite some time since I've been here, almost a year. Very sadly lost my mum in January (was with her when she went, unexpectedly) and I haven't been the same since, as you can imagine, and throw Coronavirus into the mix as well......

Great to see a lot of familiar faces here still.

On to the topic of PES 2021, I can't get my hopes up for much changing at all really, hopefully it is a step in the right direction and follows on from 2020, which overall is pretty enjoyable

 

[AntonyC_PESCustomFaces]

Hey everyone, been quite some time since I've been here, almost a year. Very sadly lost my mum in January (was with her when she went, unexpectedly) and I haven't been the same since, as you can imagine, and throw Coronavirus into the mix as well......

Great to see a lot of familiar faces here still.

On to the topic of PES 2021, I can't get my hopes up for much changing at all really, hopefully it is a step in the right direction and follows on from 2020, which overall is pretty enjoyable

I don't think we've spoken before, but that is devastating to hear. My thoughts are with you.

 

[*aLe]

Hey everyone, been quite some time since I've been here, almost a year. Very sadly lost my mum in January (was with her when she went, unexpectedly) and I haven't been the same since, as you can imagine, and throw Coronavirus into the mix as well......

Sorry to hear that. Losing someone is never easy, no matter what the circumstances are... Let alone a parent.
I wish we had a "hug" reaction but well, consider this a hug.

 

[Peter Withe]

I’ve noticed a few people saying that they’re looking forward to PES 2022 on the new technology etc. I just can’t get up for anything that’s made by Konami anymore.

As a company they’re stuck in the dark ages. From the way they handle their PR to how they present their flagship football game, Konami are simply inept. PES 2022 might wow us with stills of stadium visuals at first when the screenshots start getting leaked. But I fear it’s going to be the same old story.

FIFA is going to look incredible by FIFA 22 on PS5 and Xbox Series X. The amount of content we’ll get will bury PES. And I’m a PES player first and foremost - or at least I used to be. And it hurts me to see how bad the series is now.

Obviously I hope I’m wrong but I just can’t see how PES 2022 will satisfy the single player who wants a varied, fun and realistic Master League with more freedom on the ball, better shooting mechanics and no BS scripting from the AI. We’ll need far more generic stadia, more content full stop. But we’ll probably just end up with a licensed Icelandic league and being able to unlock Daley Thompson in myClub.

Konami are absolutely clueless these days.

 

[Spursfan07]

Apparently there are scoreboard and presentation updates in PES 2021
Especially the presentation part is interesting

 

[liverpool75775]

I’ve noticed a few people saying that they’re looking forward to PES 2022 on the new technology etc. I just can’t get up for anything that’s made by Konami anymore.

As a company they’re stuck in the dark ages. From the way they handle their PR to how they present their flagship football game, Konami are simply inept. PES 2022 might wow us with stills of stadium visuals at first when the screenshots start getting leaked. But I fear it’s going to be the same old story.

FIFA is going to look incredible by FIFA 22 on PS5 and Xbox Series X. The amount of content we’ll get will bury PES. And I’m a PES player first and foremost - or at least I used to be. And it hurts me to see how bad the series is now.

Obviously I hope I’m wrong but I just can’t see how PES 2022 will satisfy the single player who wants a varied, fun and realistic Master League with more freedom on the ball, better shooting mechanics and no BS scripting from the AI. We’ll need far more generic stadia, more content full stop. But we’ll probably just end up with a licensed Icelandic league and being able to unlock Daley Thompson in myClub.

Konami are absolutely clueless these days.

I said it before if you want to blame somebody for any Pes games, Konami Japan should be your target. All major decision about Pes were made there. All these brand or community mangers have little to no power on Pes. Konami have never really tried to use their other worldwide studios to have an impact on Pes's future. Pes's downfall wasn't EA alone back in the day, Konami Japan hasn't adapted to the new era of games. It wouldn't surprise me if Pes 2021 has some of same problems like pes 15,16,17,18,19 and 20 did

 

[༺Ƥeຮ༻]

Maybe first gameplay video ?

OK, I watched the video (maybe Konami will delete it soon, so I downloaded it just in case ), it's obviously the same game, with the same gameplay and the same problems of poorly linked animations from dribble to pass or shot. I hate how that look in PES 2020, here even looks more out of place, with this frames skipping, slowing or acceleration, that which makes the transition between of animations to look unnatural and not smooth . The good news is .. that is last game with this Engine,looks like all this is fixed on Unreal PES mobile games, must be even better on next gen.

 

[Shpitz]

Looks more like DP8 than vanilla 2020, but we won’t know for sure until we play it ourselves.

 

[slamsoze]

I said it before if you want to blame somebody for any Pes games, Konami Japan should be your target. All major decision about Pes were made there. All these brand or community mangers have little to no power on Pes. Konami have never really tried to use their other worldwide studios to have an impact on Pes's future. Pes's downfall wasn't EA alone back in the day, Konami Japan hasn't adapted to the new era of games. It wouldn't surprise me if Pes 2021 has some of same problems like pes 15,16,17,18,19 and 20 did

Is there a Konami game, that being produced out of Japan?
AFAIK the rest Konami departments are like salesperson debuty. At best they exist to offer technical support to KONAMI's slot machines in casinos around the world.

And what's the difference for a studio,( pes productions here more than Konami) , when you are irrelevant in Japan and when you are irrelevant in EU or USA?
*In both cases you (not you personally, the developers . ) are irrelevant. Only the place changes.

If the objectives, the market target, the aimed audience, the vision about the game are all the same, I can't see what Japan affects.

For me PES hardcore design is focused to achieve 4 short term objectives and 1 long-term. In any country of the globe it would be design, the objectives would be the same.

Short terms:
1) Buy the game
2) Addict to My Club
3) Use micro transactions (20~50€)
4) Become a big spender (300€+ and more)

For every customer they achieve 4/4 it is a 100% success plus the bonus that step 4) is almost 1000% profit, if the average product price is 30€.

I would say the whole game concept since 2015 exists based on those pillars and are the reason that we have the 2021 update, for example.

And longterm is:

Do something in the e-sports department, a permanent league, a high view league event, etc..

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Maybe first gameplay video ?

OK, I watched the video (maybe Konami will delete it soon, so I downloaded it just in case ), it's obviously the same game, with the same gameplay and the same problems of poorly linked animations from dribble to pass or shot. I hate how that look in PES 2020, here even looks more out of place, with this frames skipping, slowing or acceleration, that which makes the transition between of animations to look unnatural and not smooth . The good news is .. that is last game with this Engine,looks like all this is fixed on Unreal PES mobile games, must be even better on next gen.

Can you perhaps upload it to google drive? Perhaps there it wont get noticed but if you dont want to risk anything thats understandable as well.

 

[majuh]

This actually seems to be PES 2021 footage:

 

[elloco]

this is 100% the same game as 2020... too bad

 

[Chris Davies]

This actually seems to be PES 2021 footage:

A faker wouldn't usually bother changing all of the server status messages etc. to say 2021, so I would agree.

A fake video also wouldn't get pulled from YouTube via a Konami complaint within hours, like the other one did. Gotta be real.

this is 100% the same game as 2020... too bad

They literally told us it would be. It's even called Season Update.

We're so desperate for a better game that we convince ourselves otherwise.

I feel like there is going to be a group of people who know this, buy it, and then complain it's the same. It's just bizarre.

 

[A.A.A]

Of course it's the same as 2020 apart from the background, colours, squads and kits update. Now regarding the claimed gameplay update, I would assume that it'll come with the day-one patch/dlc update.

 

[guorfan]

The gameplay is real, (konami deleted it too late we all have it right now) and dissapointments are real too, also to comment is strange konami does not want to comment anything about gameplay improvements cause we are seeing is the same as pes 2020, same game for 30 euros and 3k coins for myclub

 

[StrangelyEnough]

Those that liked pes20 and played it a lot will see the differences..There not massive but there are subtle changes..Differences in awareness generally especially defenders.Its also a lot more stable and low and behold the physicality of V1 of 20 has returned.Less barging players off the ball,lots of blocking,shirt pulling and players holding players off.I can euthasise what a difference this made to pes20 if you played vanilla long term..Post launch patches ripped this from the game.It was a key element.

It’s the same tired presentation and commentary but this was always a given.

I want this..Im a big fan of the more mechanical animation and prefer the way manual shooting and passing works..It’s the feel.

For the price of a takeaway and the love of the franchise I’m buying..It’s not like there’s three or four football games on the market(pes still has that little something that’s great imo,something the other game has never been able to replicate.Its the DNA).

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Those that liked pes20 and played it a lot will see the differences..There not massive but there are subtle changes..Differences in awareness generally especially defenders.Its also a lot more stable and low and behold the physicality of V1 of 20 has returned.Less barging players off the ball,lots of blocking,shirt pulling and players holding players off.I can euthasise what a difference this made to pes20 if you played vanilla long term..Post launch patches ripped this from the game.It was a key element.

It’s the same tired presentation and commentary but this was always a given.

I want this..Im a big fan of the more mechanical animation and prefer the way manual shooting and passing works..It’s the feel.

For the price of a takeaway and the love of the franchise I’m buying..It’s not like there’s three or four football games on the market(pes still has that little something that’s great imo,something the other game has never been able to replicate.Its the DNA).

- barely any fouls
- 0 physicality, player models clashing eachother just pushing eachother on the field
- cpu player id is non existent, none of these world class players attempted to take on one on one any french player
- super keepers
- super easy chip shots
- super easy free kicks

No changes at all, every "tweak" and "fix" is a big lie.
And no i dont trust the messiah PES2022 either.

 

[Shpitz]

Those that liked pes20 and played it a lot will see the differences..There not massive but there are subtle changes..Differences in awareness generally especially defenders.Its also a lot more stable and low and behold the physicality of V1 of 20 has returned.Less barging players off the ball,lots of blocking,shirt pulling and players holding players off.I can euthasise what a difference this made to pes20 if you played vanilla long term..Post launch patches ripped this from the game.It was a key element.

It’s the same tired presentation and commentary but this was always a given.

I want this..Im a big fan of the more mechanical animation and prefer the way manual shooting and passing works..It’s the feel.

For the price of a takeaway and the love of the franchise I’m buying..It’s not like there’s three or four football games on the market(pes still has that little something that’s great imo,something the other game has never been able to replicate.Its the DNA).

I don't think that you can tell that it's like vanilla 2020 without playing the game. One of the key pros of the vanilla version was responsiveness, and that's not something that can be determined from watching a video.

 

[StrangelyEnough]

- barely any fouls
- 0 physicality, player models clashing eachother just pushing eachother on the field
- cpu player id is non existent, none of thise world class players attempted to take on one on one any french player
- super keepers
- super easy chip shots
- super easy free kicks

No changes at all, every "tweak" and "fix" is a big lie.
And no i dont trust the messiah PES2022 either.

Good for you gabe..

For me there is no other alternative..I still pay a lot of pes20 unpatched..Both 1v1 and against the cpu..For all its faults it’s still the better representation of the game for me.

I’m no different then most of the hardcore that want a truly next gen product with all the bells and whistles..A ball generated in real time and physics based outcomes etc etc..

I just play pes20 in my own way and I don’t have many of the frustration others have..I’m not saying people aren’t playing it right or there aren’t technical issues,but I get the concept and how everything works..

It’s feel,the nature of the passing mechanics and how if I play the game Unassited for me it’s the better simulation.

Everyone has there own expectations,what they want..But there’s also a lot of people that do enjoy pes currently and pit two fuma players together at a high level and you can produce some breathtaking football.

It’s not all bad..and bare in mind there are people that do enjoy and play it still.

When it comes to player ID..Ive spent enough time in the South American leagues on 20 to know it’s still very much there..More so then some of the bigger teams in the game.

 

[Chris Davies]

Everyone has there own expectations,what they want..But there’s also a lot of people that do enjoy pes currently and pit to fuma players together at a high level and you can produce some breathtaking football.

In all seriousness and sincerity - I hope that, if you're happy with that 2021 footage and that's the game you want to play, that there isn't a day one patch that ends up applying all of 2020's DP8 "fixes" alongside the rumoured new ones. I can see it coming.

 

[StrangelyEnough]

In all seriousness and sincerity - I hope that, if you're happy with that 2021 footage and that's the game you want to play, that there isn't a day one patch that ends up applying all of 2020's DP8 "fixes" alongside the rumoured new ones. I can see it coming.

I’m going disc which will be the same as the footage shown..plus I still have and play pes20 vanilla.

Don’t get me wrong Chris..I want more and my aspirations for what I really want going forward more then exceed what both company’s are both offering...

But this is the here and now..We all no what we are getting good and bad.

Folk can absolutely hammer it,that’s there call.I more them understand people’s apathy and frustration.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t people that still enjoy the franchise walts and all..

 

[Chris Davies]

I’m going disc which will be the same as the footage shown..plus I still have pes20 vanilla.

Out of interest, if you already have PES 20 vanilla, and the main thing you like about that video is the return of what you see as PES 20 vanilla, why buy PES 21 to play what you already have? Just for the updated teams? (Again, genuine question!)

 

[Emroth]

Referees are still broken anyways..
Foul at 25:15 is at least a yellow, if not red. He slaughtered the guy without the ball. No foul given.

In general - looks like they went with "if we cant fix it - lets switch most of fouls off" option, which was quite predictable.

On a plus side, not to be a total moaner, it looks like ball is a tad bit less accurate and random. Lot of rebounds, deflections, missed shots and few inaccurate passes.
But that can be me playing PES17 lately.

Cant say anything for sure looking at one match, without playing it.