Doesn't make financial sense keeping them open , push all online to efootfall
eFootball PES 2021 Discussion Thread (CONSOLES)
- Thread starter flokiman
- Start date
Nice i will grab that when its done
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
Even if they did, with their volleyball pass and shoot... Otherwhise i'm staying with PES 21.
I'm finishing my PES 5 big OF, then i think to start to edit that version in the same time i will switch with my PES 2008 PS2 patch project (both are summer transfers edition, but PES 2008 got issue in values for all the players "Team A/B/C" where people create Bundes. Price have a very very small range so it fuck up ML. But i found a solution.
Back on P21 : i've almost finished to update NT stats and found new players + real faces, like i do every year. I miss perhaps 4 teams in Asia (one is easy, Uzbekistan as all player are on previous/EF2022-23 AFC and it's the same face-build parameters, but not exactly the rendering in game (hairstyle are way less weird in EF, face seems more like preset in their expression). I always start by this.
I don't know if i will update everything but i found a +- way to convert stats from Efootball.
simonh_1984
Conference
- 18 September 2021
I've gone back to playing pes2021 on pS4 over last sixth months and it's been really enjoyable.
But last two weeks (no updates in this time) the gameplay (bizarrely only in the evening/night) just becomes to buggy - super fast and ai super aggressive. Animations too quick and making weird things happen, balls bouncing all over the place. AI booting passes at own players. My passes going wrong direction. Just generally chaos and looks and feels crap.
Yet if I play in the morning or afternoon it's fine. So weird.
Tried changing time on pS4 - kept internet off etc nothing changes it. It's ruining the game for me as I like to play mainly in the eve as work 9-5.
I might start a new master league could solve it.
Utterly bizarre and feel like I'm going mad as it doesn't make sense. But I've tested this so often now - it's real. The pace is obvious for a start. I play -1 and when it's bugged and going fast I've changed it to -2 and it still looks quite quick - well it looks like normal -1. If gameplay is normal in the morning and I put it to -2 the game looks really really slow.
So frustrating.
But last two weeks (no updates in this time) the gameplay (bizarrely only in the evening/night) just becomes to buggy - super fast and ai super aggressive. Animations too quick and making weird things happen, balls bouncing all over the place. AI booting passes at own players. My passes going wrong direction. Just generally chaos and looks and feels crap.
Yet if I play in the morning or afternoon it's fine. So weird.
Tried changing time on pS4 - kept internet off etc nothing changes it. It's ruining the game for me as I like to play mainly in the eve as work 9-5.
I might start a new master league could solve it.
Utterly bizarre and feel like I'm going mad as it doesn't make sense. But I've tested this so often now - it's real. The pace is obvious for a start. I play -1 and when it's bugged and going fast I've changed it to -2 and it still looks quite quick - well it looks like normal -1. If gameplay is normal in the morning and I put it to -2 the game looks really really slow.
So frustrating.
Play vanilla it's loads better
simonh_1984
Conference
- 18 September 2021
You can only play vanilla on pS4 can't you?
TheWolf
Premier League
If any of you mother-lovers want an unopened copy of PES21 for the XBoxOne and don’t mind paying the shipping, you can have it, just message me.
(Got sent 2 copies by mistake when I first bought the disk version.)
(Got sent 2 copies by mistake when I first bought the disk version.)
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
Don't like that much PES 2018 personnaly. No fault, less shoots variation, less inertia, GK was a bit dumber... I was disappointed after PES 2017, it was the first game with the 18 to 21 engine, but they didn't implanted inertia like it should have been : that's why i like better 19 to 21 than the previous version (with a small preference for the 2017, even if it was a bit faster than 2015 for example. But fun and balanced)
Don't remember all the flaws about 2018, but we retried me and a friend all versions (barca4eva, he's on twitter, doing ex-yugoslavia league and sold it. I ain't against : it's work, and they were 2. Work and all the time spend instead of doing something else deserve money, like we said in french "every work deserves salary". Real work, mean editing day and night, for 5 or 10 euros by league divided in two for the kitmaker. Well it's another story.
And our conclusion was 2016 > trow on trash but for him it was 2018 the worst of all.
To me it was the only 2 version that i didn't played, or for the 16 : Fifa instead. To me PES was vastly superior on gameplay on PS4 era even with some games with flaws, but the rest was so much better...
I remember having stopped editing as i remember for the 2 : when i played some match, i feel that i spended my time creating stuffs for nothing : the game wasn't good enough (especially 2016)
I also liked PES 2015, but shoots were too straight, a bit overrated to me when i was coming from PES 2014 and saw all stuffs they removed to make "less lag". It's the more basic of all... Like a member here which doesn't post anymore said (he was an usual poster). But it was fun, perhaps funnier than 2014.
I would say that PES 2015 was the PES 3 (basic but effective) when 2017 more PES 5 (more variety, more midfield too). I compare, but to be honest they're uncomparable since even PES 2011. To me, the most "PES 5" really, with 32 directions : defense more tight, shoot power feeling like we talked about power transmission to the ball for shoot etc.
But it's a matter of taste about 2018, i remember the debate here and the answers regarding no ref etc., some said "i prefers a game with at least that and that (mentionning very important foot-ballistic stuffs)
There's a lot of game good with a gamebreaker. Like FIFA 10 and 360 degree motion for the first time : it was a game change. But the Lob bug for FIFA 10 (a lob goal every match you play) was a gamebreak.
Well, i'm playing PA1 on those versions, even 19 i kinda like it (but ball physics + defense and many stuffs doesn't rivalise with 21. The 20 was to me also more rigid with less animations, didn't liked that version. Not the same gamepad in hands than 21 at all).
So on PA1, the CPU is more aware/less dumb than when you play manual : the cpu anticipate better as with the awareness of the player who will made a pass depending his stats, and much more sure the range of pass is more restricted. Not super straight and direct like Fifa assisted (was shocked when i retried, in comparison : was exactly like PS2 as a play a lot with ATM) isn't really made for that configuration, that's probably why all manual players says that 19-20-21 are dumb. Also, all the lower teams got very basic and similar tactics. Well it changes with live update a bit : but you see the real variety when you play with good vs good team, with much more players CPU style etc.
Don't remember all the flaws about 2018, but we retried me and a friend all versions (barca4eva, he's on twitter, doing ex-yugoslavia league and sold it. I ain't against : it's work, and they were 2. Work and all the time spend instead of doing something else deserve money, like we said in french "every work deserves salary". Real work, mean editing day and night, for 5 or 10 euros by league divided in two for the kitmaker. Well it's another story.
And our conclusion was 2016 > trow on trash but for him it was 2018 the worst of all.
To me it was the only 2 version that i didn't played, or for the 16 : Fifa instead. To me PES was vastly superior on gameplay on PS4 era even with some games with flaws, but the rest was so much better...
I remember having stopped editing as i remember for the 2 : when i played some match, i feel that i spended my time creating stuffs for nothing : the game wasn't good enough (especially 2016)
I also liked PES 2015, but shoots were too straight, a bit overrated to me when i was coming from PES 2014 and saw all stuffs they removed to make "less lag". It's the more basic of all... Like a member here which doesn't post anymore said (he was an usual poster). But it was fun, perhaps funnier than 2014.
I would say that PES 2015 was the PES 3 (basic but effective) when 2017 more PES 5 (more variety, more midfield too). I compare, but to be honest they're uncomparable since even PES 2011. To me, the most "PES 5" really, with 32 directions : defense more tight, shoot power feeling like we talked about power transmission to the ball for shoot etc.
But it's a matter of taste about 2018, i remember the debate here and the answers regarding no ref etc., some said "i prefers a game with at least that and that (mentionning very important foot-ballistic stuffs)
There's a lot of game good with a gamebreaker. Like FIFA 10 and 360 degree motion for the first time : it was a game change. But the Lob bug for FIFA 10 (a lob goal every match you play) was a gamebreak.
Well, i'm playing PA1 on those versions, even 19 i kinda like it (but ball physics + defense and many stuffs doesn't rivalise with 21. The 20 was to me also more rigid with less animations, didn't liked that version. Not the same gamepad in hands than 21 at all).
So on PA1, the CPU is more aware/less dumb than when you play manual : the cpu anticipate better as with the awareness of the player who will made a pass depending his stats, and much more sure the range of pass is more restricted. Not super straight and direct like Fifa assisted (was shocked when i retried, in comparison : was exactly like PS2 as a play a lot with ATM) isn't really made for that configuration, that's probably why all manual players says that 19-20-21 are dumb. Also, all the lower teams got very basic and similar tactics. Well it changes with live update a bit : but you see the real variety when you play with good vs good team, with much more players CPU style etc.
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
You're too kind mate. Thanks for the future owner
Wouldn't even try on Xbox, PES/Editing/zero emblems or kits ... But just my 2 cents. It's free so.
I also got a not opened version of PES 2020 US version as wanted Jap commentaries. But i would have preferred having the 2021 instead a thousand time.
I don't think to keep it neither, but i'm too lazy for shipping and all lol.
I was playing it last night. Was 4-1 up. Then the Super AI kicked in and I conceded 4 goals in about 10 minutes. Lobbed the pad & went to bed 😄 game was great before the last update. But what else is there to play. Pes 17 got boring again.
Werdllitrah
Non-League
- 3 August 2021
Saw a cpu injury last night, first ever for years. My Como defender crocked a Tolouse striker. The ref did his two handed beckoning hand gesture, for a split second I almost thought the old cut scene from pes5? Would appear and he would get stretchered off. Nope. Fair play he did sit it out on the sidelines for 1 min. I pressed replay and zoomed in on him sitting on the tv camera cable...ouch.
vialli82
International
- 4 September 2005
- Juventus
Hope you didn't do a Djibril Cissé to him, when i read the "ouch", what does it mean, pain animation?
(Djibril can do a leg crush without any opponent through)
Werdllitrah
Non-League
- 3 August 2021
He looked like he'd had a dose of mogadon to be honest. He came back on later with no cross beside his name in the change formation screen, I remember the old ps2/3 days when they had that, ps4 musr not be able to handle little icons😝
normazimuth
League 1
- 18 May 2013
Yeah, it's a truly bizarre game at times. I sometimes wonder if Konami just lost control of their AI algorithms and it just throws up random garbage.
A couple of bizarre things I've noticed:
I play in my own PES League where I've heavily modified the teams, so some are 1* and some are 5*, with lots of other teams in between. I usually play as a 2.5* team. There was one 1* team that I created with players having very low stats, so they were supposed to be the weakest team in the league. Yet every time I played them , they were super fast and the "physics" was that weird elasticated, pingy, scripted shite where they play like Barcelona on steroids for 90 minutes. They were basically one of the hardest team to play against, so I decided to edit all my forward players to have Finishing stats of 99 and played against them again. The only difference it made was their keeper became ridiculously super-human and either saved everything, or my shots hit the post (until I worked out that shooting from 18-22 yards was the secret to scoring in these matches). So I then decided to lower all my forwards Finishing stats to be much lower than before and lo-and-behold, this same opposition team now plays like the 1* team they were supposed to be. They play to their stats and I utterly hammer them. So increasing my players' stats made the opposition play massively better whilst lowering my players' stats made the opposition much worse.
Another weird thing I noticed a while back - when setting up the teams in my league, I edited one team to be one of best, so I gave their player lots of high stats and skills which made them a 5* team. Yet when I played against them, they were always awful, pretty much the easiest team in the league to beat. So I thought, OK, I'll rename them to the name of the team I want to be the worst in the league, but left the player stats so they were still a 5* team, but now they played f*cking amazing, high-speed ping-pong. Literally the only change I made was the name of the team. So I renamed them again back and they went back to being garbage. Renamed them again and they became awesome again.
Incidentally, you're not the first person to mention then game plays noticeably faster for them in the evenings. I've not had that problem but I've seen enough weird shit in this game to believe anything.
Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
See, that's kind of the impression I always had when I picked up Pes 2020 (don't think it's that different than 21 in this sense). That especially in competitions there is an hidden algorythm completely fucking up stats and teams worth beyond any logic. Crazy indeed and one of the reasons I've always had so much troubles immersing in the long run.
krzysiek923
League 1
- 15 September 2021
If someone would like to buy PES 2021 in the Steam version, at a normal price, I have one key.
DiPika24
Non-League
- 10 August 2022
How much? Is there anyway to get lite version of pes 21.
PESV
Championship
- 28 April 2002
Just love playing with Fiorentina, even more so now i am getting to grips with the team and learning each players capabilities. No time for a detailed report now but really temped to write an essay on them. For now just two clips showing off the their team play:
I´ve been playing almost everyday and enjoying, since there´s nothing else better to play at the moment.
Despite enjoying it overall, I still have those furious moments where I can clearly see the code ignoring players stats.
I´m playing Anderlecht and I made a pretty good team. Team spirit at 92 for now, very good players etc, but the most struggling matches are against the lower teams. To the point where those teams don´t miss a pass, an interception, a sliding tackle or a first time long pass from deep the box to the midfield for a dangerous counter attack and a sure shot... they repeat this until the eventually score.
Sometimes I can do the almost impossible and stop their attacks, but then something more adds on to the already unreal and unfair challenge... I can´t simply clear the ball from my own box, no matter what... suddenly, it´s impossible to clear the ball, my players magically get a horrible first touch, take loads of time to react, and even worse, sometimes they don´t react at all, even when they´re selected and the ball is right at their feet. It´s surreal sometimes.
What about when I score a goal? The next "event" is, guaranteed, a dangerous attack from the CPU. I can clearly see, on lots of matches, those 5 minutes where my team is simply turned off, to make things "interesting", and to create a "story" and some form of suspense through the match.
Also hate those "derby" matches. There´s no words to describe the atrocity, the "wtf where they thinking when they programed this" moments from start to finish. No matter who the derby is against, this always happens. It´s very amateur programming, and childish at best. I mean, 65 rated players that don´t miss a single pass, a single shot, a single tackle, they run like crazy covering half pitch in no time... simply put, they´re perfect on all areas. Horrible.
I still have beautifull moments and sometimes, entire matches, but to be honest I can´t feel happy about the fact that I have to shoot 20 times per match, to get a goal. It´s clearly programmed, that I can only score at a certain cenario, and until then, the ball won´t go in, even if I shoot on target 10 times in a row. It´s a way of controlling goal stats, and it removes the autenticity, the "unexpected" flow, and the need for tactics. This is on Superstar, PA1, PA2 or PA3.
I´m certain that the game is programmed to let a certain amount of goals in a certain match. If your team is too good, and the CPU is very weak, well, that´s when shit starts to happen. Even then, if you´re able to beat their super defense, don´t worry... the goalkeeper is high on meths, and will save everything, EVERYTHING, until that "certain cenario" kicks in and the program let´s you score.
I know, if I play manual, things change a little bit. The goal/shot ratio is much closer to reality, but that´s only because I miss a lot more shots on manual so I try to shoot only when I´m almost sure it will be a goal. I think the passing and shooting in this game is pleasant, so I like to play at PA1 or PA2. Played manual for a couple years so far... interesting but at the same time, not so pleasant in terms of gameplay flow or visual satisfaction... call it a preference.
Resuming, my matches have a ratio of 20 attempts/10 on target/2 goals per match. CPU, has a ratio of 4 attempts/2 on target/2 goals. Not always like this of course, but you get the point.
PESV
Championship
- 28 April 2002
There is definately a repetitive pattern noticable in each game, also on FUMA, deciding which moments the CPU chooses to attack and which moments they choose to defend. The mistake i made (and still make when im too impatient), is that i was too stubborn to adapt my play to this rather predictable flow.
My working hypotheses is, in short, that you need to decrease high risk play slightly when your team spirit (TS) is low. Reason being when your TS is low, chances are the CPU has a high TS and will be able to exploit your mistakes more efficiently.
If you feel they are coming for you, brace yourself and if necessary go into a more defensive mode. I would advice as much man marking as possible, in any case. This mindset requires discipline and focus, especially because TS is pretty hard to build up and easy to lose.
The easiest way to increase TS is to make sure you possession is above 60 procent and move up the field by subtle passes, dribbles and touches. Always look for that little space to exploit and switch play when possible to give yourself a breather. At some point, you will notice players starting to get more responsive and it will be easier to dominate. I like to imagine that i am playing co-op with training mode on, you need to grind a bit to get all those scores up. Which is easier when you are utilising your players individual qualities.
TS can of course chance on a dime and the CPU is always in an advantage because it is less prone to mistakes. To offset this advantage slightly, i would recommend putting CPU form arrow all the way down and yours one or two levels higher. You will notice it will be easier to keep possession and the CPU will make more errors.
Now, again, this is merely my working hypotheses and my own games have plenty of room for improvement but i do see progress now that ive chosen to adapt more to what i believe to be those underlaying dynamics. Yet, I still lose the majority of my games on legendary, but the experience is getting less frustrating by trying to increase my understanding. I can admire CPU goals more and more and always try to learn from the mistake(s) that i made beforehand.
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After playing a few games of FIFA 23, I have turned PES 2021 on once again. The joy of breaking CPU defense and finally scoring a goal is something else. A lot of my games end at 0-0 (Superstar difficulty). I guess I’m a weirdo who likes to earn goals and low-score games.
This might be another PES 2021 year for me.
This might be another PES 2021 year for me.
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- Staff
- #4,795
How hard you have to work to break down a team is absolutely crucial for my enjoyment of a football game.
Not every single match, of course, but if in general I have to work hard to create a shooting opportunity, that's where my satisfaction comes from.
With PES 2021 though, I find the AI doesn't generally have to do this - I find there are lots of counter-after-counter phases, with the whole team running back and forth between boxes for every move. Either that or the CB hits the perfect Beckham-esque 100-yard pass to a striker, who brings it down perfectly every time. The AI kills it for me.
This.
I wish the game had a little of error for the cpu. Sometimes it has, but it´s not natural or related with the situation, it just looks like it´s coded in order to create moments of error from the CPU, to respect some specific stats at the end of the match. I don´t really see the CPU trying something and missing, no... It just misses on purpose for a couple minutes because it´s coded that way.
And yeah, those moments where the CPU is defending, when for example I cross the ball but the CPU intercepts, usually the interception is a fast first timed very long pass, with clinical accuracy... it doesn´t matter if it´s a CB or the GK, those long passes for a counter attack are too frequent and perfect.
PESV
Championship
- 28 April 2002
So true. I always feel like i'm playing as Manu U against Man City, no matter what. Playing friendlies, long grass and putting their form arrow all the way down tames the AI down somewhat but still each game has those moments where the AI is almost impossible to defend unless you do everything perfect, or even then. The ghost of Haaland can always suddenly emerge in that striker who's name untill then you've never heard of and before you know it he can claim the match ball afterwards.
You could say "thats football", sometimes you are just unlucky and thats actually how i choose to look at it. Because the reverse, knowing if you do X or Y you can always outsmart the CPU, would of been so much worse. So, judging it as a computer game i can only say i am glad i know there is always a threat to consider that forces me to up my game. At least this way the game harbors the feeling of professional football on a meta level. Which is propped up by the knowledge that in general i can always relate a goal against me, back to a mistake of my own, something i could've done differently so i would for example not have given away that corner which produced that unstoppable header.
I think we can all agree the implementation could have been better and more realistic when looking at the actual on the pitch dynamics. Ideally the AI should apply (more advanced) AI learning to deploy lots of different tactics and dribbles to exploit your weaknesses (within the logical boundaries of a teams and players abilities). But all things considered, at least i know this game will keep challenging me to get better, to develop strategies in order to consistently win on the highest difficulty level, while still being just fair enough to keep me from rage quitting (albeit very, very tempted sometimes).
With the advancements in AI learning Konami had the perfect opportunity to tweak things so that the AI would be less dependent on 'cheats' but more-so on creativity, tactics and strategies to provide that same challenge, yet that would of been an option only if Konami had put all the money they spend on licences into development instead, which in todays world was not a very realistic scenario, unfortunately.
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Madmac79
International
- 11 September 2006
Honestly 2021 grew on me in these latest weeks. Doing a Master League in which you focus on your players, the growth, the story etc. certainly helps. Compared with 2020, I can feel the attributes and the styles of my players in a way stronger fashion (the one I played more).. and this alone keeps things interesting. I've also scored a better variety of goals, with headers, some screamer and some scrappy ones.. again, more than 2020. Same could be said for CPU.. yes, the turn and shoot is still there in all glory, but I've also been scored on myself with all the same variety above (screamers, headers etc.). I've also noticed some small dribbling in bursts by CPU more than the previous game (even if still not generally enough, of course). Probably I've also been lucky as for this season and half things weren't frustrating or too absurd in terms of teams strength and results.
That said.. I also agree with PESV above. "Meta" is a great world to describe this game in many ways. From the rpgesque team spirit to the way you learn to defend against CPU, thinking more about their paths and anticipating potential lethal situations that in term of real football. But all in all it's not a flaw in itself.. it's a different way to transpose football and even if it's not my absolute favourite, I can respect it, understand it and somehow even enjoy it for a change.
Besides, in bursts you have moments of great football. Just to say one, in my last match with Spezia (me) against Lazio there was a very nice fraction in the second half where I was down by 1-0, we were both with the penultimate red, midfield was packed and the fight for space was so tight and satisfying it felt like watching football on tv.
Then the next match you can maybe have counter attack after counter attack again. Don't know if tweaking tactics help seriously tightening up this stuff lol. Maybe in the future I'll try this and mods. For now I'll explore it as it is.
Anyway, if this game had a better balance between shots and keepers saves, that obscene thing players do when they ignore the ball removed and a more pronounced CPU individuality especially for dribbling, this would easily be an all around masterpiece. As it is, I'm finding it anyway way better and enjoyable than I thought it was before.
That said.. I also agree with PESV above. "Meta" is a great world to describe this game in many ways. From the rpgesque team spirit to the way you learn to defend against CPU, thinking more about their paths and anticipating potential lethal situations that in term of real football. But all in all it's not a flaw in itself.. it's a different way to transpose football and even if it's not my absolute favourite, I can respect it, understand it and somehow even enjoy it for a change.
Besides, in bursts you have moments of great football. Just to say one, in my last match with Spezia (me) against Lazio there was a very nice fraction in the second half where I was down by 1-0, we were both with the penultimate red, midfield was packed and the fight for space was so tight and satisfying it felt like watching football on tv.
Then the next match you can maybe have counter attack after counter attack again. Don't know if tweaking tactics help seriously tightening up this stuff lol. Maybe in the future I'll try this and mods. For now I'll explore it as it is.
Anyway, if this game had a better balance between shots and keepers saves, that obscene thing players do when they ignore the ball removed and a more pronounced CPU individuality especially for dribbling, this would easily be an all around masterpiece. As it is, I'm finding it anyway way better and enjoyable than I thought it was before.
Agree. Even with the flaws I talked about, this is the best football experience I van have right now. I did ignored it for months, and now I came back to my master league save, and I keep getting back to it everyday for a match or two. I got away from manual and I won everything in superstar in a golden season for Anderlecht. It wasn´t easy though, but the stats at the end of each match were letting me down. I created a lot of chances, maybe too many, but there´s was still something avoiding me to score, and sometimes it´s very noticeable and unfair. I´m now looking for a proper balance, and I´m back to manual, Top Player. Harder to score, sure, but I also feel that I score the same average number of goals, with the stats being slightly more realistic. High TS helps here, and the fact that you know your team helps create a sense of history, almost getting attached to some specific players... it´s nice. I hate those matches with no midfield, so I´m gonna try to mess my teams tactics and see if I can crowd the midfield a bit more, avoiding box to box game and hopefully, getting those matches to turn out more interesting.
Still, it´s my daily football fix.