eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

slamsoze said:
Yes you are right. And add to this the standard carp of ML handicap, despite any TS, E.G. Frosinone playing better than Ajax of 1995 while Inter and Juve play passive defensive game, holding the 0-0 on any difficulty level, and you get the final screen.
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Exactly!
That's why it's pretty refreshing playing league mode,even though it's pretty basic,it's still solid gameplay.
 
rockstrongo said:
Exactly!
That's why it's pretty refreshing playing league mode,even though it's pretty basic,it's still solid gameplay.
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Yes it is basic but it plays better for sure. I wish i could like it, but i do not want to leave, player development, transfers etc. Except for this, someone proposed here months ago, that instead of these throw backs, they could just keep the mode in the fantasy concept, starting mandatory with the ML defaults, and struggling to build a roster through time. And not using cheap tricks to hold us back with any team.
 
slamsoze said:
Yes it is basic but it plays better for sure. I wish i could like it, but i do not want to leave, player development, transfers etc. Except for this, someone proposed here months ago, that instead of these throw backs, they could just keep the mode in the fantasy concept, starting mandatory with the ML defaults, and struggling to build a roster through time. And not using cheap tricks to hold us back with any team.
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Yes they really need to change things,the way it is now...
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Strange thing was...in both matches players felt quite sluggish and slow, whereas in the next league match with Pescara, players have been more responsive again.
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This really annoys me. I don't want to call it "scripting" because it's a catch-all term for when the AI beats you, and I don't think it's always a fair shout (e.g. when you get beat 1-0 by the AI from their only shot on target - that happens in real life).

But it just makes no sense how I can play (as Everton) v Norwich and it's a slow, grindy game, then play against Newcastle who are similarly rated and it's literally twice as fast.

But it's not even just the speed of the players, it's the response times. Against Norwich my players are drugged, it takes them ten seconds to turn (but it's the same for the AI at least). Against Newcastle, all the players respond immediately, as if I've turned the game speed up to +2.

If it was "team spirit", it should stay relatively consistent. Not jump back and forth. So it's not that, I don't think (and the AI's "team spirit" is always 99, from what I've read). And more to the point, in real life, "team spirit" doesn't turn athletes into fat bastards!!

How is this acceptable for a football simulation in 2020? Real-life matches can differ wildly in terms of the pace they're played at, yes - but not the reaction time of all the players! It's such forced, stupid, code-dinosaur bullshit. Is it the engine? Or just the programmers? Who knows.

I've been playing a 2vAI career game on PC (and oh my God, the modding community is incredible - you can download every EPL stadium, who knew?!).

The feeling of satisfaction when you build up a great passing move is so good, it doesn't even matter if you score at the end of it or not, and I really missed that. But Christ on a bike, when you're one-on-one with a defender, and have the response/agility of a sumo wrestler, it makes me want to smash the controller over the Konami CEO's head.

INVEST IN THIS GAME! PLEASE!
And I DON'T MEAN IN LICENSES!
 
Chris Davies said:
This really annoys me. I don't want to call it "scripting" because it's a catch-all term for when the AI beats you, and I don't think it's always a fair shout (e.g. when you get beat 1-0 by the AI from their only shot on target - that happens in real life).

But it just makes no sense how I can play (as Everton) v Norwich and it's a slow, grindy game, then play against Newcastle who are similarly rated and it's literally twice as fast.

But it's not even just the speed of the players, it's the response times. Against Norwich my players are drugged, it takes them ten seconds to turn (but it's the same for the AI at least). Against Newcastle, all the players respond immediately, as if I've turned the game speed up to +2.

If it was "team spirit", it should stay relatively consistent. Not jump back and forth. So it's not that, I don't think (and the AI's "team spirit" is always 99, from what I've read). And more to the point, in real life, "team spirit" doesn't turn athletes into fat bastards!!

How is this acceptable for a football simulation in 2020? Real-life matches can differ wildly in terms of the pace they're played at, yes - but not the reaction time of all the players! It's such forced, stupid, code-dinosaur bullshit. Is it the engine? Or just the programmers? Who knows.

I've been playing a 2vAI career game on PC (and oh my God, the modding community is incredible - you can download every EPL stadium, who knew?!).

The feeling of satisfaction when you build up a great passing move is so good, it doesn't even matter if you score at the end of it or not, and I really missed that. But Christ on a bike, when you're one-on-one with a defender, and have the response/agility of a sumo wrestler, it makes me want to smash the controller over the Konami CEO's head.

INVEST IN THIS GAME! PLEASE!
And I DON'T MEAN IN LICENSES!
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I set myself down to regular, which I already stated a couple of times.
That "scripting" or AI cheat or whatever you wanna call it, isn´t that present on regular, but still seems to shine through at times.

Just had a game where AI came near to my box, took a shot and my goalie parried the ball away.
Ball came to my wing defender.
I swear, I hit circle to the max and the body position was fine by my player.
But the ball just got off his foot a few meters.
Of course next to the opponent, passed the ball to the striker....goal.

And this happens quite a lot this year. Passing bar is loaded up fully, but the pass sometimes is too weak.

They need to work on their Ai and those difficulty levels.
It can´t be happening that they are compensating difficulty by mistakes or sluggish players etc.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
They need to work on their Ai and those difficulty levels.
It can´t be happening that they are compensating difficulty by mistakes or sluggish players etc.
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Yep, I think that's exactly what's happening. They can't make attributes (other than pace) truly matter enough to provide challenging scenarios, so they "shortcut" it, and give poorer players in 1v1 situations the agility of an armoured knight carrying a piano. That, in 2020, is how attribute differences are represented.

10+ years ago, I couldn't wait to play football games in the future, because I thought all of this stuff would be better than ever. If anything, it's worse - online players demand that every pass they try to make comes off, that every shot is perfectly struck etc... Otherwise it's the "game's fault". So it's got worse.
 
Αnd something more cosmetic. Every first window i sign Tevez in a Bosman-transfer, i pay only the salary and he has a "smartplayer" role.
It is fun watching the news feed after the first couple of matches, where there is a tab, "A new talent rises!", showing a 35 years old Carlos Tevez!!! :P
 
I still can't help but think the AI behavior is by design in order to make human v human matches more about user skill tbf.

I just can't explain the difference in how proactive teammate AI is in PES 2017, which I played until I got 2020, and 2020. I play 2017 and there are times I just sit back and watch it teammates create fantastic goals. Then I play 2020 and they're just.......passive.

Because they have limited time to improve the game and they clearly have prioritised the online side of things.

I got tired of team spirit bs and just signed a bunch of smart players etc. Team spirit is always at least 88 now.
 
aderow said:
I play 2017 and there are times I just sit back and watch it teammates create fantastic goals. Then I play 2020 and they're just.......passive. [...] Because they have limited time to improve the game and they clearly have prioritised the online side of things.
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Yep. 100%. Both football games only have one core AI, shared across offline and online. If you're going to prioritise one - it's going to be the one with microtransactions. Therefore, it's here to stay.

Played some more last night, and every game is just a grind. On the one hand, we snuck a 1-0 in the last minute against Arsenal and it felt great. But it's getting really tiresome, having to press buttons 1-2 seconds in advance or otherwise your player stands still like a deactivated robot while the opponent takes the ball - and having the dribbling agility of a football-playing elephant, with decent players.

Each game is just "People Running Into Each Other Simulator", where the winner is the person who never, ever tries to do anything other than pass the ball away immediately when an opponent gets too close.

Yet (as I said yesterday), building up a good move and having to think about your passes is what I play football games for, so I (for the meantime) keep coming back.

I play three games, get fed up of the rigidity, go to bed, remember that passing move that resulted in a tap-in that won us the game, and then come back to it the next day.

I just wish Konami would wake up (along with my players). We're here, still buying PES every year, still waiting for some fundamental shit to be fixed (like every ball contact being perfect).
 
I really love the concept of ML, but it´s growing really old and frustrating on me by now. I´m on the 5th season, and monthsago decided to go to PRO level to avoid the BS levels. You know what? It´s frustrating anyway! Rockstrongo was wright, your players are even more handicaped then on higher levels, to compensate the lower CPU dificulty. WTF???? What´s the point then?

Lately all my matches are repetitive in terms of stats. I dominate pretty much all the midtable teams and lower, 17 shots, 10 on target, 1 goal. Looks like I have to hit the target a million times to score. And then, after the first goal, and this is happening very often now, I simply can´t do shit. I have no control over most of the passes, sometimes a full bar moves the ball just 1 meter, than I try to make a very short pass to the striker and it looks like a powerfull shot that goes 50 m away. Fouls are only called to the CPU, Cavani and Hazard suddenly miss all the clear chances, defenders always, ALWAYS run a few steps away of the ball when I select them, offering passing lanes and easy chances for the opponent. When defending, very often my players get stucked on the back of the CPU player and for a few seconds I can´t move them away even with super cancel. It´s more like super glue instead, but I can´t protect the ball the same way, as soon as the CPU gets close, I loose the ball immediatly.

I´m on the f@&$ing PRO level!!!

Because of this, I have to play the same way everytime, making the safest moves that I know ususally work, so it gets repetitive. I can´t try new things because I already know they won´t work. I need my football fix now and then, but lately, when I finish a ML session, I always get that feelling "Why the hell I´m I still playing this?!" What blows my mind is, Why? Why on earth would anybody think that we need some code to make the matches more even or harder/dramtic to win just to create emotion and story driven ML??? It doesn´t work KONAMI! Stop this already! Nobody likes it!!! Not offline, Not online players. We just want to feel our players and their atributes, instead you want us to play a match just to see what was the scripted outcome!

It´s like, you choose a stupid team with stupid players and the engine says "ok let´s give him a fair experience..." Then, few seasons on the way, you have a super team with a high TS and the engine goes "Wait, no no no buddie! Let´s make this next cup match against Norwich a surprise he can´t expect. OK, lower player attributes? Check. Stronger, smarter and perfect positioning CPU players? Check. Invisible barrier on the goal line? Check."
 
At least most people are on the same page about this games issues I stopped playing it just before xmas the ridiculous handicapping vs the AI just made it a grind even when winning

I did have a handful of superb games in the early weeks but too few to keep me interested the games akin to playing vs a force field while controlling 11 Frankensteins on superstar and legend levels
 
xicpanad said:
I really love the concept of ML, but it´s growing really old and frustrating on me by now. I´m on the 5th season, and monthsago decided to go to PRO level to avoid the BS levels. You know what? It´s frustrating anyway! Rockstrongo was wright, your players are even more handicaped then on higher levels, to compensate the lower CPU dificulty. WTF???? What´s the point then?

Lately all my matches are repetitive in terms of stats. I dominate pretty much all the midtable teams and lower, 17 shots, 10 on target, 1 goal. Looks like I have to hit the target a million times to score. And then, after the first goal, and this is happening very often now, I simply can´t do shit. I have no control over most of the passes, sometimes a full bar moves the ball just 1 meter, than I try to make a very short pass to the striker and it looks like a powerfull shot that goes 50 m away. Fouls are only called to the CPU, Cavani and Hazard suddenly miss all the clear chances, defenders always, ALWAYS run a few steps away of the ball when I select them, offering passing lanes and easy chances for the opponent. When defending, very often my players get stucked on the back of the CPU player and for a few seconds I can´t move them away even with super cancel. It´s more like super glue instead, but I can´t protect the ball the same way, as soon as the CPU gets close, I loose the ball immediatly.

I´m on the f@&$ing PRO level!!!

Because of this, I have to play the same way everytime, making the safest moves that I know ususally work, so it gets repetitive. I can´t try new things because I already know they won´t work. I need my football fix now and then, but lately, when I finish a ML session, I always get that feelling "Why the hell I´m I still playing this?!" What blows my mind is, Why? Why on earth would anybody think that we need some code to make the matches more even or harder/dramtic to win just to create emotion and story driven ML??? It doesn´t work KONAMI! Stop this already! Nobody likes it!!! Not offline, Not online players. We just want to feel our players and their atributes, instead you want us to play a match just to see what was the scripted outcome!

It´s like, you choose a stupid team with stupid players and the engine says "ok let´s give him a fair experience..." Then, few seasons on the way, you have a super team with a high TS and the engine goes "Wait, no no no buddie! Let´s make this next cup match against Norwich a surprise he can´t expect. OK, lower player attributes? Check. Stronger, smarter and perfect positioning CPU players? Check. Invisible barrier on the goal line? Check."
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I love the concept of ML,building a squad,getting some affection for your players,that's why I had quite old players as backup in my Milan ML on 17.
But I feel the scripting /handicapping has got so bad since Pes 17-18 and I can't play it since Pes 19,it's ok on Regular difficulty,but it gets to easy pretty fast,which is a shame,since REG difficulty plays so good,the CPU is brilliant (but too easy) on that difficulty.

That's why I've moved over to League mode,I know it can't replace ML,but the gameplay is so good Vs ML.
I even stepped up to TP on PA0,haven't noticed much bs,tough but quite fair.
I rather have a game to play than no game,even if League mode is a stripped down mode without transfers etc it really works.
Give it a try
Otherwise it's Pes 17-18
 
rockstrongo said:
I love the concept of ML,building a squad,getting some affection for your players,that's why I had quite old players as backup in my Milan ML on 17.
But I feel the scripting /handicapping has got so bad since Pes 17-18 and I can't play it since Pes 19,it's ok on Regular difficulty,but it gets to easy pretty fast,which is a shame,since REG difficulty plays so good,the CPU is brilliant (but too easy) on that difficulty.

That's why I've moved over to League mode,I know it can't replace ML,but the gameplay is so good Vs ML.
I even stepped up to TP on PA0,haven't noticed much bs,tough but quite fair.
I rather have a game to play than no game,even if League mode is a stripped down mode without transfers etc it really works.
Give it a try
Otherwise it's Pes 17-18
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Currently playing, and have been the whole January, exhibition matches only.
Will start a new league as you teased me a lot! :D
 
PRO_TOO said:
Currently playing, and have been the whole January, exhibition matches only.
Will start a new league as you teased me a lot! :D
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Decent gameplay Pro.
Not far from exhibition gameplay,you'd probably end up with some bs after a run of victories,but nothing major so far,wish I could skip games if I wanted to,but I use coach mode on 2x Speed so it's over quote fast.
I think you'll like it,major improvement from ML gameplay.
Let me know how it's going my friend
 
Chris Davies said:
Yep. 100%. Both football games only have one core AI, shared across offline and online. If you're going to prioritise one - it's going to be the one with microtransactions. Therefore, it's here to stay.

Played some more last night, and every game is just a grind. On the one hand, we snuck a 1-0 in the last minute against Arsenal and it felt great. But it's getting really tiresome, having to press buttons 1-2 seconds in advance or otherwise your player stands still like a deactivated robot while the opponent takes the ball - and having the dribbling agility of a football-playing elephant, with decent players.

Each game is just "People Running Into Each Other Simulator", where the winner is the person who never, ever tries to do anything other than pass the ball away immediately when an opponent gets too close.

Yet (as I said yesterday), building up a good move and having to think about your passes is what I play football games for, so I (for the meantime) keep coming back.

I play three games, get fed up of the rigidity, go to bed, remember that passing move that resulted in a tap-in that won us the game, and then come back to it the next day.

I just wish Konami would wake up (along with my players). We're here, still buying PES every year, still waiting for some fundamental shit to be fixed (like every ball contact being perfect).
Click to expand...
I don't know if you played Pes 2020 on Ps4 too, so you could make a comparison but what you describe feels like input lag. When i played the demo on PC i immediately noticed it was less responsive compared to Ps4 version and solved that issue by capping framerate at 60 fps with rivatuner server statistics (it comes bundled with msi afterburner). What is wierd though is that you say most matches are unresponsive while in other there are no issues.
 
rockstrongo said:
Decent gameplay Pro.
Not far from exhibition gameplay,you'd probably end up with some bs after a run of victories,but nothing major so far,wish I could skip games if I wanted to,but I use coach mode on 2x Speed so it's over quote fast.
I think you'll like it,major improvement from ML gameplay.
Let me know how it's going my friend
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I had some leagues going before but settled with „my matchday“-feature. :D

I’ll let you know when I start next week. Not sure yet wich team to pick.

What leagues do you prefer to start in when playing regular league mode?
 
PRO_TOO said:
I had some leagues going before but settled with „my matchday“-feature. :D

I’ll let you know when I start next week. Not sure yet wich team to pick.

What leagues do you prefer to start in when playing regular league mode?
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Since I'm in Xbox and no option file etc,I play Serie A,done it since Pes 6:)
It's a varied league a few strong teams and weaker one,plus I think the pace is pretty much spot on for it
I'm Lecce (lowest ranked) and it's tough but fun
 
Chris Davies said:
Yep. 100%. Both football games only have one core AI, shared across offline and online. If you're going to prioritise one - it's going to be the one with microtransactions. Therefore, it's here to stay.

Played some more last night, and every game is just a grind. On the one hand, we snuck a 1-0 in the last minute against Arsenal and it felt great. But it's getting really tiresome, having to press buttons 1-2 seconds in advance or otherwise your player stands still like a deactivated robot while the opponent takes the ball - and having the dribbling agility of a football-playing elephant, with decent players.

Each game is just "People Running Into Each Other Simulator", where the winner is the person who never, ever tries to do anything other than pass the ball away immediately when an opponent gets too close.

Yet (as I said yesterday), building up a good move and having to think about your passes is what I play football games for, so I (for the meantime) keep coming back.

I play three games, get fed up of the rigidity, go to bed, remember that passing move that resulted in a tap-in that won us the game, and then come back to it the next day.

I just wish Konami would wake up (along with my players). We're here, still buying PES every year, still waiting for some fundamental shit to be fixed (like every ball contact being perfect).
Click to expand...

Lmao that how they get ya; just one moment where everything comes together and it pulls you back in.

xicpanad said:
I really love the concept of ML, but it´s growing really old and frustrating on me by now. I´m on the 5th season, and monthsago decided to go to PRO level to avoid the BS levels. You know what? It´s frustrating anyway! Rockstrongo was wright, your players are even more handicaped then on higher levels, to compensate the lower CPU dificulty. WTF???? What´s the point then?

Lately all my matches are repetitive in terms of stats. I dominate pretty much all the midtable teams and lower, 17 shots, 10 on target, 1 goal. Looks like I have to hit the target a million times to score. And then, after the first goal, and this is happening very often now, I simply can´t do shit. I have no control over most of the passes, sometimes a full bar moves the ball just 1 meter, than I try to make a very short pass to the striker and it looks like a powerfull shot that goes 50 m away. Fouls are only called to the CPU, Cavani and Hazard suddenly miss all the clear chances, defenders always, ALWAYS run a few steps away of the ball when I select them, offering passing lanes and easy chances for the opponent. When defending, very often my players get stucked on the back of the CPU player and for a few seconds I can´t move them away even with super cancel. It´s more like super glue instead, but I can´t protect the ball the same way, as soon as the CPU gets close, I loose the ball immediatly.

I´m on the f@&$ing PRO level!!!

Because of this, I have to play the same way everytime, making the safest moves that I know ususally work, so it gets repetitive. I can´t try new things because I already know they won´t work. I need my football fix now and then, but lately, when I finish a ML session, I always get that feelling "Why the hell I´m I still playing this?!" What blows my mind is, Why? Why on earth would anybody think that we need some code to make the matches more even or harder/dramtic to win just to create emotion and story driven ML??? It doesn´t work KONAMI! Stop this already! Nobody likes it!!! Not offline, Not online players. We just want to feel our players and their atributes, instead you want us to play a match just to see what was the scripted outcome!

It´s like, you choose a stupid team with stupid players and the engine says "ok let´s give him a fair experience..." Then, few seasons on the way, you have a super team with a high TS and the engine goes "Wait, no no no buddie! Let´s make this next cup match against Norwich a surprise he can´t expect. OK, lower player attributes? Check. Stronger, smarter and perfect positioning CPU players? Check. Invisible barrier on the goal line? Check."
Click to expand...

I've gone down to pro as well for similar reasons. Although I'm not playing as often, I'm having a bit of fun, but I can't just shake this feeling of.....disappointment I guess? because I know with a better AI it would be a much better experience.

I wouldn't say your player are handicapped on pro tbf. Matches are a lot more comfortable now overall for me.

Best advice I can give anyone playing ML is sign as many smart players and playmakers as you can immediately and play them as often as possible.

I think it's complete bs a mechanic and this is the easiest way to get around it.

I personally don't like to use the word scripting because I think it's overused. I think there's more to why the game struggles to bring joy to a lot of people playing and I don't think code dedicated to forcing a result one way or the other is the reason for that.
 
aderow said:
Lmao that how they get ya; just one moment where everything comes together and it pulls you back in.



I've gone down to pro as well for similar reasons. Although I'm not playing as often, I'm having a bit of fun, but I can't just shake this feeling of.....disappointment I guess? because I know with a better AI it would be a much better experience.

I wouldn't say your player are handicapped on pro tbf. Matches are a lot more comfortable now overall for me.

Best advice I can give anyone playing ML is sign as many smart players and playmakers as you can immediately and play them as often as possible.

I think it's complete bs a mechanic and this is the easiest way to get around it.

I personally don't like to use the word scripting because I think it's overused. I think there's more to why the game struggles to bring joy to a lot of people playing and I don't think code dedicated to forcing a result one way or the other is the reason for that.
Click to expand...

I also had a good run when I moved to Pro. Did a full season and I was ok with it, but on the next season, it was almost as if something kicked in, and I was playing on TP or Superstar again. Might seem a bit weird, but that was my feeling. That cpu goal from a free kick or later on the match that I dominated was starting to get very common on most of my matches, and this is after I kept creating clear chances but somehow the ball always found a way to miss the target.

I also don´t like to use the word scripting, so when I do it I mean the way the software reacts to your inputs and to the overal flow of each match. It´s there, and I agree there has to be some sort of programing to make matches interesting, but this is just too much. On older PES there was also some scripting on higher levels, but it would help the CPU instead of lowering your players abilities. When we created chances, they were real chances and we knew everything could happen, including scoring a goal when it seemed right, natural... with the odd miss here and there.
 
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