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eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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Daisuk said:
I had a shot from close distance in the dying minutes of a match, and you can see two of the defenders on the opposing team just diving in front of the ball to try to block it whatever way they can, but it went in, and it was such a lovely moment. I just sat there rewinding that goal for a bit just to marvel at the animation of the diving defenders, it looked really, really good. Here's a video of it:



I'll throw in a few more random goals I've scored that I've enjoyed for whatever reason. None of them are necessarily best goals of the month type of goals, but I enjoyed them none the less. :)







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That first video of Messi scoring. Very natural and realistic. Wonderful goal mate. I'd prefer these type of goals. You pass around and also dribble when necessary. I always find those videos on youtube where they dribble the entire team and score meh to me.
 
Alx1234 said:
have you tried going back to older pes versions?

my assumption is that the change is so fundamental that it makes it harder to enjoy the older games because of its higher quality gameplay/gfx and because of the control scheme.

learning new controls seems like a hefty price considering that :
- it took me a few months before i was scoring goals when i switched to FUMA in 2014; i.e. initally steep learning curve
- i was applying controls learnt in the later pes' to the earlier versions
- I am still learning and enjoying the 2014-19 control scheme
- knowledge of existing controls means i can concentrate more on exploring finer details of pes like ML player traits etc
- also reasonable similarities to fifa that then make fifa accessible.

the only main sacrifice i can see with sticking with the older games will be the option to play online and i've managed to put that craving aside now.
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I have only played pes2020demo since its release. No plan on touching the older games ever.:D

Not really an offline mode guy(I only play exhibition in offline). This year, I just plan to play online fuma(maybe division, which I haven't tried even once or just friendly lobby). I just want to play an hour or two a day once the full game is released.

In the past, I like to play older games, just to compare the changes from the newer games.
I like to experiment how the things are different from the older games(in terms of passing, shooting, ball control, movement, etc.), but now it's not practical anymore since the latest game has different controls and I just want to play online.
 
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How are people triggering off the ball runs, it seems to be intermittent due to the right stick being skills. So hold left button and right stick to trigger as per my set up and sometimes the off the ball players runs forward but more often than not the player isn't selected
 
hitmanuk said:
How are people triggering off the ball runs, it seems to be intermittent due to the right stick being skills. So hold left button and right stick to trigger as per my set up and sometimes the off the ball players runs forward but more often than not the player isn't selected
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In previous PES, I use trigger runs excessively because I can't trust teammate to make good runs on their own.
In Pes2020, I'm doing the same thing but for some reason, I didn't feel like the Rs close control is being affected when I do trigger runs.

Maybe, I don't do triggers run while on close control that's why I don't feel the difference.
Maybe, I'm doing trigger runs after I already pressed R2 or after I press R2+Ls(in previous PES), but not during.
 
I probably just need to relearn it, you obviously won't be able tonuse skill and manually control another person at the same time
 
hitmanuk said:
How are people triggering off the ball runs, it seems to be intermittent due to the right stick being skills. So hold left button and right stick to trigger as per my set up and sometimes the off the ball players runs forward but more often than not the player isn't selected
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Yes, I have the same problem. Sometimes (often, actually) they simply don't run. Apart from that, the spatial awareness and general intelligence of your attackers, specifically the ones in the center, seems yet again rather limited. Even when I manage to make them chase a through ball and connect earlier to it than the AI, it feels more like a result of a random script rather than a consequence of my actions.
 
Elanimator said:
In previous PES, I use trigger runs excessively because I can't trust teammate to make good runs on their own.
In Pes2020, I'm doing the same thing but for some reason, I didn't feel like the Rs close control is being affected when I do trigger runs.

Maybe, I don't do triggers run while on close control that's why I don't feel the difference.
Maybe, I'm doing trigger runs after I already pressed R2 or after I press R2+Ls(in previous PES), but not during.
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Yup, the moment you've pressed and held the player select button, any right-stick pointing command should select a player to run. I don't have any issues with it.
 
janguv said:
Yup, the moment you've pressed and held the player select button, any right-stick pointing command should select a player to run. I don't have any issues with it.
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Another method could be: while having the ball at feet, press L1+flick the right stick to choose a team mate to make a run > then move the team mate with the RS. Let go of RS and he’ll go wherever you want him to!

That’s manual! :)
 
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klashman69 said:
I think i should upload videos i made to be honest.

Basically i love the game but i'm realistic that it needs work and it will fail in the state its in now. Konami have the base setup correct but its essentially fine for a early demo but when the full game hits ad people aren't rushed about playing 5 minute matches the responsiveness issues will be exposed and in the current state now this game wont last, fix the issues and we will have a special football game which will provide the fundamental basis for greatness moving towards to PS5.

Lets start here by what you say.



See this brings me back to what i said 6 weeks ago regarding people being stuck in the past, but it's more alluding to people finding a style of gameplay, pace of gameplay they like and not wanting any changes because if the game achieves what they want, there 'no' problem, its perfect. This is whats happening here which what you say, your interpretation of 'responsiveness' is outdated from what you have shown.

Why? well I have zero issues with inertia and momentum, its absolutely beautiful in this game, its revolutionary and it works, i have no problem with this, this is NOT the responsiveness I'm talking about. I will add also the physicality is probably after the Right Stick the best improvement over PES 2019, i also have no big issues with the tackling system, there so much skill involved, i love it.

My big issue is best shown if you boot up a CPU vs CPU game, if you really want to tell me this game doesn't have severe broken passive AI issues off the ball then your blind, I'm sorry, I personally think Konami did this on purpose to give people time and space to get to understand the right stick which is understandable but they can't release the game like this. I can walk you through it as i can upload this video to show you but there isn't much point because you can all see it for yourselves when you select a CPU vs CPU match and please, please stick it on superstar, just so you can see its a setting which is just crazy how passive the AI is off the ball.

Here is and example of what you see in CPU vs CPU matches even on superstar:

Rashford has the ball near the far touchline. just 10 yards from the halfway line inside his own half and is immediately pursued and tracked by Xhaka, first few seconds, not issue, but then for the next 10 seconds, literally nothing changes, Xhaka continues to allow Rashford to run forward until he reaches the Arsenal 18 yard box near the touchline still and, yes, sadly even allows Rashford to stop, turn round the get a cross in which needs good save by Leno to keep it out. I'm sorry but that's broken!

I noticed this immediately in the first few games the AI is so passive when you move at a certain speed its stupid, and broken. Because the demo is locked to 5 minutes you don't notice it so badly, also this specifically happens running at a rather slow speed so its not a deal breaker for me or most but its a concern if the game is released with the demo code, everyone will be very unhappy and it will cause severe exploits offline. If you know the AI refuse to tackle you when you run at a slow speed this will eventually because unplayable! remember CPU vs CPU is very important to understand how you teammates work off the ball and understand the tactics mechanics.

Further explaining this issue also, if i select Mouche from Colo Colo, or another fast but average winger from Sao Paulo, if i hold R2 and want to try some step overs to beat a man to cut inside, i want him to 'perform the action', ESPECIALLY if he has 'scissors feint' as a trait! I don't care if the game engine shows its realism and he messes it up or he doesn't do it successfully enough to beat a man, just as long as he does it. I do not want to see zero response at all to my button input, again this must be improved. Skills are important for flair players to use and people need the confidence that players will respond to their commands which they aren't consistently enough in regards to skill moves.

I said at the beginning of the demo i was very skeptical of the 5 Minute gametime lock, that concerned me because I knew 100% they where hiding something. If they are confident there isn't a huge exploit if GUARANTEE you we would of got a 10 minute demo like we used to see. We saw the same thing last year where they tired to hide the 1 dimensional low cross attack only AI on release. Look at the shitshow PES 2019 was on release, i don't want that to happen to PES 2020. We have something great here but key bugs must be sorted and sorted ON RELEASE, not in October.

Konami have done some great work and what happens in with all the new stuff implemented it takes time to get the balance right, some of these settings are 'off'. This game has the best ball physics i have ever seen in a football game, however the side effect of this is the AI at times is super clumsy as it seems hey are unaware how to respond in certain unique situations, these bugs must be addressed and shown so Konami know how to get to the bottom of errors and move the game forward. I have another video CPU vs CPU showing Aubameyang with a clear run on goal, just simply not responding to the space, not this wasn't an organic bad touch, he had full control of the ball, he just seem to 'lag' in response to run forward! This is just a bug, a very similar flaw i saw in PES 2019. This is linked to responsiveness and i believe most of it is down to balance issues due to all the wonderful new stuff which has been implemented still needs more development.

I feel the need to post this to you because i believe your getting carried away, you found something you like and your ignoring 1 or 2 very glaring flaws which need sorting so we will get possibly the best and most realistic football game of all time at some point this year but hopefully on release.

Again i say this not just to you but everyone, try and watch 5 CPU vs CPU matches back to back, i mean by the 3 one the flaw will be so ugly and obvious you will stop and give up. This affects the game however you play against the AI offline so i it's a major flaw, thank one of the games 2 only flaws because the rest is awesome.


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Both video’s are superstar.

Nah..I’m not blind..Nor do i peddle in hyperbole..

I’ve seen the A.I. be passive(which is related to setup and tactics)..But I don’t believe the A.I. is flawed or broken..Two examples of me moving at a slow speed and yet the cpu still challenges for the ball..Even pulling at me around the 18 yard box.Notice how the second defender(6 yard box)mops up and does a decisive clearance.He was hardly passive and he clearly saw the danger.The player on me even tryed to win the ball and missed.(top video).

Notice also how the ref doesn’t blow at any point when contact is made with my player.Another thing folk have claimed everytime contact is made...and how the ref is card/whistle happy.
 
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Ameppe said:
What issues? I never felt like it had responsiveness issues.
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He speaks about them in the post you've quoted.

It reminds me of when Killzone 3 released about ten years ago. To exaggerate slightly, half the players found aiming incredibly laggy (to the point of being almost impossible to play), and half didn't even notice it! Those latter guys weren't thinking "oh this is realistic, I like it" or whatever, I mean they literally just didn't notice it.

You could demonstrate it in Killzone 3 via videoing your controller input and the delay in things happening on the screen - from reading @klashman69's post he may well do that with the PES demo, which would help prove the point - but there was a clear split in the player base (and at the time, absolute uproar - Google is still full of all the posts about it).

This is how I feel about PES - not just 2020, but all the modern games. It's not a "realism delay" where the player's getting his body into the correct position - as I've said before, at its most extreme, a player can take 6-7 steps jogging normally before acting on your input. It's just a delay.

Yet, not everybody feels it! A quick go of a FIFA demo might help highlight it - but of course, it's the exact opposite problem there (input is so instantaneous that players warp and literally fly up from a falling/sitting/lying position to act on your button press, which is a much bigger, and frankly more stupid, issue).

I also sort of see why it is the way it is in PES - if the input delay halved, online matches (for example) might become like twitch shooters, even if the response time was realistic and not "forced" like FIFA, just because... Gamers mash buttons, and that's not going away. So maybe this is their way of "offsetting" that.

Either way, I'd find it really interesting to know what the game felt like with improved response times. But I think that might have to wait until the Unreal engine.
 
I cannot believe how bad I am at this game and yet I still like it (quite a lot).
I'm terrible. I hope it's just cause of a steeper learning curve because when you guys post all these videos, I feel like something's wrong with my fingers :PP

RE Input Lag: It's the first time I haven't noticed any players sliding into position to produce the next animation. All animations start and finish, unless you use super-cancel, the transitions between each of them are smooth and precisely calculated.I have no doubt that the response times have been lowered slightly from PES 2019 to 2020 to achieve this, and I wouldn't want it to change. Ever! Give me these animations and these transitions at the expense of lower response, I'll take it without even blinking!
 
Chris Davies said:
He speaks about them in the post you've quoted.

It reminds me of when Killzone 3 released about ten years ago. To exaggerate slightly, half the players found aiming incredibly laggy (to the point of being truly impossible to play), and half didn't even notice it! Those latter guys weren't thinking "oh this is realistic, I like it" or whatever, I mean they literally just didn't notice it.

You could demonstrate it in Killzone 3 via videoing your controller input and the delay in things happening on the screen - from reading @klashman69's post he may well do that with the PES demo, which would help prove the point - but there was a clear split in the player base (and at the time, absolute uproar - Google is still full of all the posts about it).

This is how I feel about PES - not just 2020, but all the modern games. It's not a "realism delay" where the player's getting his body into the correct position - as I've said before, at its most extreme, a player can take 6-7 steps jogging normally before acting on your input. It's just a delay.

Yet, not everybody feels it! A quick go of a FIFA demo might help highlight it - but of course, it's the exact opposite problem there (input is so instantaneous that players warp and literally fly up from a falling/sitting/lying position to act on your button press, which is a much bigger, and frankly more stupid, issue).

I also sort of see why it is the way it is in PES - if the input delay halved, online matches (for example) might become like twitch shooters, even if the response time was realistic and not "forced" like FIFA, just because... Gamers mash buttons, and that's not going away. So maybe this is their way of "offsetting" that.

Either way, I'd find it really interesting to know what the game felt like with improved response times. But I think that might have to wait until the Unreal engine.
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Could the problem be less evident when playing with a more zoomed camera view? I do not experience frequent and structural responsiveness issues and I play on a close cam because otherwise I don't feel in control. You could say it feels less responsive on a zoomed out cam, like the stadium cam.

Not sure but I think there are different factors at play that might explain this, the most important being visible feedback. When you play on a closer cam it's much easier to time your decisions better because you get a better view of the players position and his balance. Just a thought.

@klashman69 @Chris Davies If I may ask, what camera do you play with and on which machine?
 
On PES 2019 and PES 2020 demo I play on a very zoomed out cam and never hand any issues with input lag.
But I also would gess on different cam settings.
 
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Chuny said:
I cannot believe how bad I am at this game and yet I still like it (quite a lot).
I'm terrible. I hope it's just cause of a steeper learning curve because when you guys post all these videos, I feel like something's wrong with my fingers :PP

RE Input Lag: It's the first time I haven't noticed any players sliding into position to produce the next animation. All animations start and finish, unless you use super-cancel, the transitions between each of them are smooth and precisely calculated.I have no doubt that the response times have been lowered slightly from PES 2019 to 2020 to achieve this, and I wouldn't want it to change. Ever! Give me these animations and these transitions at the expense of lower response, I'll take it without even blinking!
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Nail on the head!..bravo.
 
Chuny said:
when you guys post all these videos, I feel like something's wrong with my fingers
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Im the same and I have a feeling its down to minor touches, primarily first touch control, that some people seems to have adapted straight away. I still didnt figure out how to trap the ball properly and first touch seems to be perfectly recreated in this game to give you an advantage if you use it right... which I dont. Small subtle little touches like this, or left/right stick movements and everyone seems to be one step ahead of me tripping over my own legs. Nonetheless - im loving that you can see the difference between more and less skilled user.
 
I can confirm guys,input lag a heavy one on day matches at any stadium, wtf man,i dont wann play all my games at night...they need to fix this
 
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