eFootball (All Platforms)

[rojofa]

Innovative does not just mean being different, to me at least, there needs to be something creative, ambitious or technically advanced. Changing up a few bits and pieces within the same (Fox Engine) gameplay base as the mobile game so it feels a bit different is not innovation.

If this is "fresh and innovative" then I suppose you could use that phrase for using brown sauce as a pizza base with strawberries as a topping. I guess that just wouldn't catch on either because it's "different to what we are accustomed to", not because it's a shitty recipe that should get in the bin.

 

[MKC]

So I've decided to play it some more, I think every football game I own is better than this at its currents state, but regardless of how bad this might be right now it's still new and fresh, so it sparks my interest more than the games I'm used to playing.

Yesterday's session was genuinely awful, it was dull to play, controlling the players and/or the ball didn't feel organic, passing was a chore due to the field feeling like mud and the AI felt lost and unaware. It was full of the weird L2 collisions aswell, the CPU just couldn't resist turning into a homing missile and distorting my players. Some of the worst football gaming I've ever played, all I could do was laugh at the whole situation, until it stopped being funny and it just got annoying instead, so I turned it off and played something else.

Today's session was much better, I liked having the ball, I enjoyed my plays and the feeling of the controls, even the passing felt better for some reason, maybe I just got more used to it, but I'm getting the hang of it and it became more fun to play overall. The defending also felt better, still not ideal because the AI messes me up a lot, the lack of 2nd man pressing bothers me and the player weight and inertia makes it tough to block passing lanes like I used to, all of that together forces me to be more agressive on the back than I'd like, but tackling manually feels rewarding.

I like a lot of the ideas they had here. You're punished for sprinting too much because players lose control of the ball more easily, I gave a lot of goal kicks away and that's good, it wants you to sprint intelligently. Defending is more manual and causes more fouls on both sides too. The tempo and match flow are realistic. It's harder to attack because the CPU intercepts your passes more. There's more passing error. No strategy feels objectively superior to the other, possession and counter, center and wings, passing and crossing, it all feels valid. They have ideas I wish were implemented years ago.

I feel that with updates we can have a playable football game, especially with all of the teams and modes introduced I can see myself playing this, if the updates actually fix the issues without creating new ones of course. Still, there's no excuse for this release, it's broken. I still don't appreciate the F2P microtransaction focused model, the lack of a physical release, the new name, logo and visual identity. It's all so soulless, Even when I enjoy it I'm still dissapointed, because at its best it's just a standard FOX PES with some improvements, and at its worse it's something I never want to go back to.

We just can't win really, even if updates somehow make this more playable in the future, it's still a soulless spiritual successor that ended a franchise we loved, that ended physical media, that ended the offline focus, I can see myself playing this if it gets fixed, but I'll never be passionate about it like before.

 

[vialli82]

Just a small thing about the database. That's what happen when you're in same road as EA.
But one thing is entirerly their fault. Remember one thing : they will keep edit mode for sure to complete it...
And we talked about the lost of some Nations in Fifa? Well just one thing :

Edit: Important > there's NT but they aren't annouced on their website... (The rest of the post don't talk about it but licence in general)

-There's NO national teams on PES. So you can forgot about Haaland in game, or plenty of Bundesliga interesting players and big leagues too.
Corrected > Nations are present : not on the list only.... Dumb as always https://www.pesmaster.com/norway/efootball-2022/team/16/
-They made a deal with AFC Nations, so perhaps an update with only Asian Nations licenced... But i don't believe so.
-There's only 5 licenced Serie A teams (partners). But what's funny : all Serie B is licenced.
-MLS present, but with fakes teams, the only good thing. It's not enough for the sacrifice of CSL, Liga Aguila, and (from their OWN choice) Nations and Others Europe, with 3 german teams exceptions.

I'm sick of those licences, exclusive thing. You can denies it's played A LOT in the balance of PES sold. If both games gotted Bundes... But also PL and Liga 1 and 2 with kits, the story would have been different. I don't know how much people in more would have buyed PES since the 2015, but a lot. I can even goes far in the time but let's stay in the current history that conducted PES to became that shitty stuff with an unacceptable database.

I'm waiting so much to get a game without those issue... I don't think Nations will be available again. Anymore.
So, Fifa to me already won the war they created first. It's not Fifa devs fault, they're not responsible, but that's the way EA kills their opponent and got their monopoly.
The only way, is a complete disappears of PES and an acceptable Fifa for PES gamer (FTM, it's not too much my case. I still need the two game).
The thing is : they won the war on PS360 thanks to their gameplay + licences. But not on PS4-PC.

So, with only them on the market and all their power they will got all licences and no problems anymore... Well they think. Because look at Liga Colombiana : they aren't in ANY games. Any. And some Nations could be on FIFA, but they disappeared. And i don't get why there isn't a simple editing mode, but plenty of thing we don't give a damn.

You can't even change height or weight of a player, only stats. neither the rest. Preset face or not. It's unbelievable, i don't get it. Same for the team, you can't even change the name. Is that too difficult to create a system? Yes, they add tons of stuffs but one very important things they don't care. I'm a Juventus fan, and don't even want to take them because of it, even for a game as i found it too stupid when i see the difference in authenticity regarding licenced teams. Sincerely.

That's all i wanted to say. It's about licences, and the way to resolve it via editing, so can't talk about it without mentioning and talking about EA and Fifa in the post. As i also considers it will be the last remaining unfortunately.

Sad. Very sad. Another victim to me on the long term, as dumb Konami is right, the situation would have been VERY VERY different if exclusivity was forgiven in sports game for a matter of equity by i don't know... The players and teams association.
And i don't want to hear that there's too much "if". It's so obvious than no one can denies it.

EDIT2/ There's still nations, but removed all nations who were fakes (+- 8 in Africa, 12-14 in Asia, 4 in America etc.). But the good side is they keeped all the EURO nations.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

I know not many of you are fond of 2021 but I made a video that showcases just how much of an incredibly immersive experience & how rejuvenated the game could be with mods from aesthetics to sound and gameplay.

For those seeking the authentic offline experience that was abolished from "Conami's" new disenegenious cash-in, hopefully PES 2021 modded up to reflect the new season mKes any new shallow offering from this discraced company redundant.

 

[_anderson]

After playing the game, it's funny to me how the worst things about it are the main gripes I've had with PES for a decade, but worse than ever before:

• 0 player awareness. Both your players and AI have no idea what to do with the ball in 70% of the situations
• Catch up bug, now with extra ketchup: It starts as you are positioning yourself to run for the ball, literally meters away (I guess, to make it less obvious when you have the ball on your feet), impossible to override
• Dreadful collisions and overall physics
• Response times. They manage to have a skate fest of a game AND absurd response times in one sh*t wrapped sh*t package.

As a developer, people blaming it all on it being "a mobile game" is unfair. From a technical standpoint, their UE4 base done for the mobile games made a lot of sense as a starting point for something fresh. Improving it to the point it's a decent football game on every platform, only scaling graphics and physics accuracy to the target machine, was a COMPLETELY doable thing.

But, like I read on an interview (that I can't since seem to find) with the current "Seabass-guy", they did the whole thing backwards. If I remember correctly, they spent an *unknown* amount of time porting the EXISTING game mechanics from the previous console games to the UE4 version. Which sounds to me not only like a daunting task for high quality developers with in depth understanding of modern frameworks (in this case, game engines), but an IMPOSSIBLE task for our usual mediocre Konami devs.

 

[vialli82]

Well only for PC gamers. I'm out so. It's very frustratating we can't even change licenced team with any tool, except if you got a PS4 modded.
I got a pro version, i'm thinkin to do it seriously. PC games runs on it, but i didn't found many (more any) patchs for PS4 to add.

 

[vialli82]

After playing the game, it's funny to me how the worst things about it are the main gripes I've had with PES for a decade, but worse than ever before:

• 0 player awareness. Both your players and AI have no idea what to do with the ball in 70% of the situations
• Catch up bug, now with extra ketchup: It starts as you are positioning yourself to run for the ball, literally meters away (I guess, to make it less obvious when you have the ball on your feet), impossible to override
• Dreadful collisions and overall physics
• Response times. They manage to have a skate fest of a game AND absurd response times in one sh*t wrapped sh*t package.

As a developer, people blaming it all on it being "a mobile game" is unfair. From a technical standpoint, their UE4 base done for the mobile games made a lot of sense as a starting point for something fresh. Improving it to the point it's a decent football game on every platform, only scaling graphics and physics accuracy to the target machine, was a COMPLETELY doable thing.

But, like I read on an interview (that I can't since seem to find) with the current "Seabass-guy", they did the whole thing backwards. If I remember correctly, they spent an *unknown* amount of time porting the EXISTING game mechanics from the previous console games to the UE4 version. Which sounds to me not only like a daunting task for high quality developers with in depth understanding of modern frameworks (in this case, game engines), but an IMPOSSIBLE task for our usual mediocre Konami devs.

I don't think it's impossible. Considering that the game is completely released unfinished...
BTW the name is Kimura. And Seabass wasn't the boss, but the most known on the team. Not so long, it was Kei Matsuda, replaced by that Kimura (the guy who cames with the idea of cross-gen) I know it as i was kinda linked with Konami in a way or another.
Kimura is very stubborn by the way, and you can't make it change his mind.

What i think, is that Kei Masuda probably gotted a project "transformed" but it tooks too long due to the Covid situation. Konami was ruined out of money and decided to take the guy they thinked that he would save PES/Efootball i imagine. Well this last paragraph is my view of thing, what i found the most logical. The rest is what i've heard and being confirmed from other guy we didn't talked about. And even Renan Galvani (another who talked about the story in intern) confirmed it a bit later after i learned it personally, from a data editor in chief.

Now believe what you want. I don't care at all behind thrusted or not: It's just a relay from what i've heard. I don't believe everything but you can check, the produced in chief is not the same as last year. And what i see now is like a confirmation of that rushed version you got now.

 

[DuduBR9]

We are doomed if we don't welcome fresh ideas, and stick to what is familiar to us.
Evolution comes with trial and error, not with repeating obsolete "successful recipes".
The majority of users are crying of a "PES 6 remaster" just because they have linked it with their childhood and everything is filtered with nostalgia.

100% on this.

 

[H_G]

Even if my version was the 360 version, very weird game. I still can say if it's a copy paste of the normal version, with different players model more actual and some transition animations in more in preparation of PES 2008... But it "felt" different. Just check vids of the game and you'll get an idea of a PS360 "remaster"

I agree

 

[Sami 1999]

I suppose that's why the likes of FIFA 08 and more specifically, FIFA 09 were met with such backlash and vitriol, right? Oh wait. Those two titles were radically different not only to the FIFA series, but football games in general. They were groundbreaking titles at the time and pushed the genre forward. To this day, they're still highly venerated for what they achieved. These two games were most certainly not met with the complete disdain and disgust that eFootball is being showered with despite being very innovative. Innovation or perceived innovation does not equate or translate into a quality product. A game or product can be deemed innovative and still be subpar or downright awful.

You're correct that at times, positive change isn't always appreciated at first if at all. Here's the thing though; a game can be evolutionary and immediately recognizable as quality. More to the point, and I've said it countless times before, a few good ideas and mechanics mixed with hopes and dreams does not turn a mediocre game (that's being about as kind as I could possibly be) into a great one. If eFootball is some remarkable recreation of football in the digital realm by this time next year, then that's beautiful. We all want that. Unfortunately, they've released their product and thus, it will be subject to public scrutiny and criticism based on what we can play today, much of which it fully deserves. If Konami wants to start charging money for eFootball despite its sorry state, then they're going to get flak. Simple as that. This isn't exclusive to this series or even the genre. Not to mention, this is Konami we're dealing with here. We know how they operate.




Exactly. You don't have to convince us, Flokiman, you need to convince the masses on Steam, Twitter, social media that this is some misunderstood masterpiece. We're a small niche, why would you or Konami care about how we perceive the game? We're not the target demographic, they admitted as much. As it turns out, apparently neither is anyone else! It's not just the big, bad Evo-Web that's rejecting eFootball this time. Hence the public apology within days of its release.

FIFA 08 did what EA doesn't do anymore.

Gameplay and physics felt superb. And look at those graphics, that game looked great, even the sequels felt downgraded compared to 08 on xbox 360. So all in all, it was a complete package. We had great gameplay and graphics at the same time.

It's a shame that pc port missed out on fifa 08 next gen. The things that could have been done with modding if it was on pc.

 

[flokiman]

Most of these "fresh" features have already been done by FIFA. Literally nothing is innovative about the things you mentioned. They're just imitating what their rival competition been doing the past few years. If this game is a great example of football simulation then god have mercy on us all.

Fresh for PES or efootball series is what i meant.

 

[vialli82]

Just checked on PESMaster, they decreased practically all player by 5 points (well i think it more a percentage but well). The range is way lower for many stats. High speed is very rare, you can consider a 83 on speed stats as fast, and a 75 as good.
Or it's just that even stats are all messed up, but if it's the same for every player, it's not an issue.
But there's very different standards than on every other PES. For example, you can check : there was a limitation for 80kg player : he couldn't be under 70 in first old Balance > transformed in Physical contact before PES 2017 (don't remember exactly), and Header couldn't be under 70 for a 191cm player (range was 70 to 99 / Then 70 to 96 since they introduced featured players)

Well, now that PES got different standard, i can unveil some stuff i knowed, standards rules, "B" thing and Header was discover by myself. Physical contact from a data editor

Header vs Height
151cm to 160cm > 50 to 70 Header
161cm to 170cm > 50 to 80 Header
171cm to 180cm > 60 to 89 Header
181cm to 190cm > 60 to 94 header
191cm to 210cm > 70 to 99 header (max in game is 95 / Non "Featured player")
Note: There's rare exception if A ranked 95-99 Overall like Maradona (84 Header 165cm)

P. Contact vs Weight

50kg to 59kg > 50 to 70 Physical Contact
60kg to 69kg > 60 to 80 Physical Contact
70kg to 79kg > 60 to 90 Physical Contact
80kg to 89kg > 70 to 90 Physical Contact
90kg to 99kg > 70 to 99 Physical Contact (max in game is 97 "Non Featured player)
100kg and + > 75 to 99 Physical Contact (max in game is 97 "Non Featured player)

Now about positions standards : "B" was introduced firstly for Fluid Formation. Sorry if it's big, it's a copy paste :

2. POSITIONS RULES STANDARDS

There's some rules to know about Registred position (REGISTRED Only!).

Example : If a player got "X" registred position, he will get a B automatically on "X"

So it's quite simple a player is registred from the position mentionned, he will autmatically gets "B" on X other positions

CF > SS "B"

SS > AMF "B" & CF "B"

RWF > RMF "B"

LWF > LMF "B"

AMF > SS "B" & CMF "B"

LMF > LWF "B"

RMF > RWF "B"

CMF > AMF & DMF "B"

DMF > CMF "B"

LB > LMF "B"

RB > RMF "B"

No "B" position for CB and GK

Pretty simple, i gived it to many editor not on my team but they didn't carried that much. But it's pretty important, weight is related to P.Contact in physic for example. If a 80 kg got less then 70, he will fall all the time... There's others rules btw, like "Low Lofted pass" can't be under 60... But well, it so logic that i don't even have to put it here.

Now, Rank limitations. That's how it worked: Konami imposed to their Data Editor a range, it's simple. Then after, they revised some stats in intern.
Guys doing J-League for example are the good old ones who were doing stats until PES 2014. I can tell you by experience, they were very precise even for youth coming from Universities who didn't played a single game about their representation. Well enough talk, here's the ranges:
NOTE: there's no "A" range for Data editor. Konami where doing players like Maradona or Zidane who reached 95 and 96 for example.

RANKS:
B: 90-94
C: 85-89
D: 80-84
E: 75-79
F: 70-74
G: 65-69
H: 40-64

Well that's enough. You can verify yourself by setting "80 kg" or "90kg" or 191cm and check limitations of minimum and maximum on Pesdb (you can also add a column since not so long time on Pesmaster too). It's not dreamed, invented, that's PES standards from before Efootball.

Ranks was important to me, as it's a bit linked with market value including age, highest market value, and on which league level he played, nationality too. If you see some 77 players on a NT with full of 74 max : check the injury : there's a lot of players who aren't selected as they always got a problem. Also, of course, the potential... But it was simple to guess : a good youth with high potential got a more or less higher than average market value. Also a player with many injuries got his market value toned down and not a bit. So there's several stuff to take in account to create a player set.

 

[Lami]

We are doomed if we don't welcome fresh ideas, and stick to what is familiar to us.
Evolution comes with trial and error, not with repeating obsolete "successful recipes".
The majority of users are crying of a "PES 6 remaster" just because they have linked it with their childhood and everything is filtered with nostalgia.

Nah man. Nah. I disagree. I play those old games and they still play great and invoke great emotions.

 

[flokiman]

Nah man. Nah. I disagree. I play those old games and they still play great and invoke great emotions.

Ι bet you are over 30+ yo, and when you played "these old masterpieces" you were teenager or so, right?
That's nostalgia , to my opinion.
But every aspect is respectable!

 

[vialli82]

Nah man. Nah. I disagree. I play those old games and they still play great and invoke great emotions.

Me too, but as they were, i could even say as they are even now. A "remaster" i don't know if it's possible, but more if it's isn't really needed. To me not at all.
Better graphisms, or current data? No idea. But personnally i prefers by miles PES 1 to PES 5 seasons (a bit less PES 6 as Juventus was on D2 for a wrong reason, the "after" calciopoli etc. and no Bundes unfortunately)

 

[GOATinho]

I played a few more games (I'm currently playing through the Metal Gear Solid series, which has taken up most of the little time I have for gaming).

I still have some positive things to say, but less so than before.

The game is rough. Players seem to overrun the ball frequently, lots of clipping issues, bad AI, just really weird physical battles, etc.

Konami probably should've just skipped this year on console. Given how the game looks like an upscaled mobile port, I suspect they'll soon start skipping console every year.

 

[The_Knight]

Kei Masuda

This is the name I was looking for. He was leading the project. His plan was to make a completely next-gen PES on Unreal for PS5/XBSX/PC, while keeping the PS4/XB version on Fox Engine. This was the plan as late as fall 2020 exactly 1 year ago.

It's unclear when Masuda left and when Kimura took over, but having less than 1 year to change the plan from a next-gen game to a cross-gen one is definitely not enough. It's clear why they just rushed everything.

 

[juliovodoo]

Is there anyone here with PC version? I´m having a problem with this game that doesn´t happen with any other game nor PES 2021. The game restarts my computer when I try to play. I´ve played the game from time to time when the game "allows" me to play but it restarts my computer very oftenly. Anyone having this?

 

[GOATinho]

Is there anyone here with PC version? I´m having a problem with this game that doesn´t happen with any other game nor PES 2021. The game restarts my computer when I try to play. I´ve played the game from time to time when the game "allows" me to play but it restarts my computer very oftenly. Anyone having this?

Maybe your GPU or CPU are getting too hot?

 

[H_G]

Me too, but as they were, i could even say as they are even now. A "remaster" i don't know if it's possible, but more if it's isn't really needed. To me not at all.
Better graphisms, or current data? No idea. But personnally i prefers by miles PES 1 to PES 5 seasons (a bit less PES 6 as Juventus was on D2 for a wrong reason, the "after" calciopoli etc. and no Bundes unfortunately)

I don't think it's possible to release a remastered game.

Reason: licences

 

[H_G]

This is the name I was looking for. He was leading the project. His plan was to make a completely next-gen PES on Unreal for PS5/XBSX/PC, while keeping the PS4/XB version on Fox Engine. This was the plan as late as fall 2020 exactly 1 year ago.

It's unclear when Masuda left and when Kimura took over, but having less than 1 year to change the plan from a next-gen game to a cross-gen one is definitely not enough. It's clear why they just rushed everything.

This is why I ask members if they are sure they have been working on this game for 2 years

 

[vialli82]

This is the name I was looking for. He was leading the project. His plan was to make a completely next-gen PES on Unreal for PS5/XBSX/PC, while keeping the PS4/XB version on Fox Engine. This was the plan as late as fall 2020 exactly 1 year ago.

It's unclear when Masuda left and when Kimura took over, but having less than 1 year to change the plan from a next-gen game to a cross-gen one is definitely not enough. It's clear why they just rushed everything.

From what i know... It was like in the end of 2020 or the start of 2021 i even think it was on February but for one month or one and a half... Less than a year in fact since he's leading.

 

[NikoLiberty4]

Friendly reminder about the famous statement Konami put 14 months ago alongside Messi teaser:

https://www.konami.com/wepes/25th/en/2020/

Taking PES to a Whole New Level​

As the industry stands at the precipice of an exciting new generation of consoles, we believe that now is the perfect time to share some of our plans for the future of the PES franchise with you.
To that end, we are excited to announce that we are hard at work on a next-generation football title that aims to truly embody our core concept of "The Pitch is Ours".

This title is being developed with an updated engine that will enable us to dazzle you with staggering improvements to all areas of the game. Expect more realistic player models and animations, enhanced physics, photorealistic visuals, and much much more.
We recognize that many of you are enthusiastic for new myClub and Master League content, and we are also excited to share that large updates are in the works for both of these modes.
However, the sheer scale of everything we are aiming to achieve for our next-gen debut has made it necessary to pare back our efforts in other areas of development. As a result, we have made the decision to launch this year's PES as a streamlined offering in the form of a "season update". That being said, we are still extremely confident that this year's game offers fans more than enough thrills to tide them over until our next-gen title is ready for launch.
This year also marks a quarter of a century since the very first PES title was released. To commemorate this important milestone, and more importantly, to show our gratitude to you, our loyal fans, we are pleased to announce that this year's PES will launch at an affordable anniversary price and will also come with several bonuses.
Currently, we aim to begin testing of our next-gen title sometime in mid-2021, with an estimated release date later in the same year.
Until that time, we hope to see you back on the pitch in this year's season update.
Look forward to more news regarding our next-gen project closer to release.
The PES Development Team

 

[Madmac79]

Ι bet you are over 30+ yo, and when you played "these old masterpieces" you were teenager or so, right?
That's nostalgia , to my opinion.
But every aspect is respectable!

Sorry, but you are completely off track and I seriously don't get how can this be still an argument at all to be honest. There is people playing whole seasons, all year long of those old (and even past, but not so old) games because they simply have more fun with it. Nostalgia may be a thing if you retake something once in a while, not if you regularly keep on play it. I feel the most deepest nostalgia for Fifa 98 or Championship Manager 97/98, yet I don't play those, maybe I load them maybe once in a year or something.

 

[DuduBR9]

We are doomed if we don't welcome fresh ideas, and stick to what is familiar to us.
Evolution comes with trial and error, not with repeating obsolete "successful recipes".
The majority of users are crying of a "PES 6 remaster" just because they have linked it with their childhood and everything is filtered with nostalgia.

This is basically the problem with PES franchise for a long time.

There's hardly anything to praise on Konami, specially their marketing, their money hungry strategy, low effort and budget.

But one thing is sure: despite their terrible management, there are great minds that know how to bring New stuff that never crossed our minds before, and whenever they attempt to implement something different, its hardly welcomed.

The truth is that people dont want a game that froces them to rethink How a REAL football game must be played. They Want a game that allows them to play the same easy and predictable game every year.

 

[Shikashi]

Gotta take my hat off to Konami. I expected something bad judging by the NFGB, but not a train wreck of this magnitude. Their ability to keep letting people down is leagues above and beyond the rest of the industry.

 

[Roger Machado]

the ball its so free on efootball that sometimes it goes thru players bodies to reach its "location"

 

[heX_]

Holy shit man even non pes players are shitting on Konami for this, Muta (SomeOrdinaryGamers) posted this vid. He doesn't even play football lmao.

 

[TheWolf]

Ι bet you are over 30+ yo, and when you played "these old masterpieces" you were teenager or so, right?
That's nostalgia , to my opinion.
But every aspect is respectable!

I'm 53 so my time spent playing PES 6 and prior games has nothing to do with teenage nostalgia. I've been playing video games since the first pong/space invaders at the arcades. I played some PES 6 earlier today and for the most part, they still haven't replicated what they got so right in that game 14 years later. 13/17/21 have come close but #eShitball is a long way from it. One of the most important things in life to learn is not to try and fix what isn't broken. Konami broke what was fixed and their focus now is 100% their new teen/pre-teen mobile market where if you can introduce super-powers, etc. and earn more money, they'll do it.

Konami simply have no interest in making a realistic game. What's in it for them? Respect? I have a friend who has lived in Japan (originally from England) for 20+ years and he's mainly been a translator for businesses between Japan/West. He can tell you that the culture follows the rule that you focus on making money and taking care of your family and anything is acceptable in pursuit of that money whether you're an individual or a large company as long as it is legal. Konami won't diversify their project to please the mobile gamers AND the console gamers. The only reason this abomination is on consoles is because they hope to milk more money out of those mobile game playing teens/pre-teens who they know mostly have consoles too.

Going in a different direction isn't commendable when you were heading in the correct direction in the first place.

 

[pesfooty29]

The warning signs were there when they released the open beta back in June. Then the trailer back in July.