eFootball (All Platforms)

[Chris Davies]

However in this case what i experience that its rather the opponent players that become OP. Way too much, which isnt the bad thing just have to accept that those types of players, especially if there is 11 on the pitch would win the game automatically almost even if they were controlled by a toddler.
Realized this when i went into practice and how easy was to control Argentina. No tactics, nothinking was required, just press and run with them because even the blocks happen automatically almost, but mostly you dont even need to block. Oh yes and keepers like Kahn, save everything.

Oh I noticed this too, playing a training match as Liverpool vs Man City (after seeing a tweet about how true-to-life the AI City play).

I was moving in directions I truly wasn't pressing with Salah - it's a bizarre sensation, when you're pressing to go forwards and slightly right, when the player moves forwards and slightly left, perfectly between the midfielders you were trying to avoid getting too close to.

When you feel the AI "taking over" like that (not that I get it in Dream Team because my team is a much lower strength than everybody else's)... Again, you have to think to yourself, what is my input actually worth.

But, admittedly, you have to interpret attributes into gameplay somehow. Perhaps my major problem is having to play with a star-filled team against a star-filled team, or (outside of Dream Team) playing against PSG every game. It's just not my bag.

Tiki Taka Corinthians

View attachment 157257

Lovely passing, but lord above, how unrealistic does the whole clip look? From the bizarre ball physics to the CM crab-walking alongside the ball and just stopping dead in the centre-circle.

There's such a long way to go before this is a good game. IMO, the praise is way over the top.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

So I wanted to reply to this with some clips to show what I'm talking about. I only dallied around in training mode for 10 minutes or so, so I've probably not got the best examples. But here we go anyway. All clips from vs Top Player AI in training mode, Ajax vs Man City.

AI responsiveness
By this I meant the inability to kick into action and recognise that something of footballing significance is going on. This happens both defensively and offensively, and both on your team and the CPU opponent.


Now I originally captured this as an example of unresponsive player awareness – the intended receiver doesn't act like the ball is anywhere near him. But I see on a repeat watch that it's actually the problem of target locking – look at how it's selected the winger here and that's why, seemingly, my player won't stick a leg out or come to the ball. So, perhaps a mixed diagnosis and there are better examples.


Here, look at the player who calls for the ball late in the clip. The problem is how long it takes that player to recognise there's a move available here. When I played 11s, it's customary for a midfielder (a good one) in this situation to come forward and be available. You've always got to be running for your other players – find that space and give them an option. I believe the 5th division German players know this as well. He's really slow to kick into gear and create an option. Then he calls for the ball when the move is all but snuffed out. Here he is at the key moment, and just before I initiate the pass, he needs to be aware and simply isn't:

View attachment 157254
The square is just a poncey way of showing how much space there is for him to make something happen. For context, he's a CMF and this is a Possession Game style.

Okay, now here's a defensive example from the CPU team:


Look at the player I've circled below, and his reaction to a headed ball in his area of the pitch: a slave to some sort of positional programming and a delayed awareness that anything is going on.
View attachment 157255

These are just quick examples, and there will be many more and many better ones available. They are legacy issues, but I don't see how we can pretend this AI is the "best ever" when this sort of stuff happens all over the pitch.

Players that walk in front of the play mindlessly and block passes/crosses
This one is easy to demonstrate and I'm amazed if it doesn't happen to you pretty much every session you play the game. Here's just one example (sorry about the ugly circle UI – I tried with it on for a bit to see what I might be accidentally triggering with the new control scheme), but just open your eyes and you'll see it time and time again:



Acres of space in most team shapes
This is something that you bring up as a legacy issue as though to write it off as unimportant. I wrote about it as a legacy issue, in fact. I don't think that changes things. I don't see how this can be "best ever AI" when players aren't programmed to keep realistic team shapes. For context, I mean this sort of congestion as in the Spurs v Brighton game recently:

View attachment 157256

In real life football, you often get even more congested than this. We've had something approaching this in previous PES games. So again, how can the acres of space in pretty much all or nearly all the eFootball matches represent the best AI we've ever had?

I think we can pick apart any game like that and find gaps and issues and ai failures. Thing is there is no decent PES game since 2007, perhaps 2013 but that game has some glaring issues, like all teams play direct football and keepers and shooting is awful without mods. And lets admit, although PS2 PES is highly payable, those games are outdated graphically, functionally, there is no AI dribbling to be fair due to the limitations and the games are very very easy because of similar limitations. So to me this is finally a superior game in gameplay sense at least. First i wanted to make a dt mod to congest the midfield even more and to adjust keepers, etc as usually but i realized on the ball play and the build up play, defence-attack balance carries the game and i dont want different experience online and offline. Just for the same reason why i dont change gamespeed offline.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Oh I noticed this too, playing a training match as Liverpool vs Man City (after seeing a tweet about how true-to-life the AI City play).

I was moving in directions I truly wasn't pressing with Salah - it's a bizarre sensation, when you're pressing to go forwards and slightly right, when the player moves forwards and slightly left, perfectly between the midfielders you were trying to avoid getting too close to.

When you feel the AI "taking over" like that (not that I get it in Dream Team because my team is a much lower strength than everybody else's)... Again, you have to think to yourself, what is my input actually worth.

But, admittedly, you have to interpret attributes into gameplay somehow. Perhaps my major problem is having to play with a star-filled team against a star-filled team, or (outside of Dream Team) playing against PSG every game. It's just not my bag.


Lovely passing, but lord above, how unrealistic does the whole clip look? From the bizarre ball physics to the CM crab-walking alongside the ball and just stopping dead in the centre-circle.

There's such a long way to go before this is a good game. IMO, the praise is way over the top.

This is why i think the Authentic pvp league mode events are great idea. Im gonna jump in after work and play US league or J-League and wait after the dust settles around Dream Team Season 1 because you get these crazy teams and even tho i can beat some of them, each match is like playing a world cup final's final 10 mins....

 

[Anth James]

Acres of space in most team shapes
This is something that you bring up as a legacy issue as though to write it off as unimportant. I wrote about it as a legacy issue, in fact. I don't think that changes things. I don't see how this can be "best ever AI" when players aren't programmed to keep realistic team shapes. For context, I mean this sort of congestion as in the Spurs v Brighton game recently:

In real life football, you often get even more congested than this. We've had something approaching this in previous PES games. So again, how can the acres of space in pretty much all or nearly all the eFootball matches represent the best AI we've ever had?

Exactly right. For me this is one of, if not the biggest problems that needs to be addressed. I've said it before, but the way the positions are mapped across the pitch is largely the cause of this problem. Positions are spaced far too wide so no matter how compressed you try and make them, it's pointless when the minimum space is already dictated to us. It's a little better on efootball, but nowhere near what it needs to be.

Look at PES 2011's midfield shape here. It's 1000x better than what we have now. This has to be seen as an important issue. Passing lanes aren't going to be blocked with positions mapped out the way they are - and this means the midfield is always going to suffer.

 

[Goldstone]

Don't skip the 10 matches against the A.i in league divisions mode if you want to gain some easy player XP points.

 

[janguv]

I think we can pick apart any game like that and find gaps and issues and ai failures.

As we ought to do to assess claims like "best AI ever".

I take your point that previous games have had problems. I just don't see why we're so forgiving to things like AI running in front of you and killing a move. Or AI retreating into a defensive position when they need to step up to intercept, very very obviously. It's bad. In 2022 with the technology available, it's just glaring and lazy. More realistically: it's not important to Konami because the biggest spenders don't care about this stuff. And the old-school fans are either totally disillusioned or willing to look past the many crap things to find the scraps of good things, so underfed have they been for so long.

I am maybe even in that latter camp – there's parts of this game I appreciate, and I can see myself maybe getting on with it. I've done so with all the recent PES games (the key for me is having fair-minded FUMA opponents to play with; that looks less and less possible right now unfortunately). But for all that, we don't need to lose our critical faculties.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

As we ought to do to assess claims like "best AI ever".

I take your point that previous games have had problems. I just don't see why we're so forgiving to things like AI running in front of you and killing a move. Or AI retreating into a defensive position when they need to step up to intercept, very very obviously. It's bad. In 2022 with the technology available, it's just glaring and lazy. More realistically: it's not important to Konami because the biggest spenders don't care about this stuff. And the old-school fans are either totally disillusioned or willing to look past the many crap things to find the scraps of good things, so underfed have they been for so long.

I am maybe even in that latter camp – there's parts of this game I appreciate, and I can see myself maybe getting on with it. I've done so with all the recent PES games (the key for me is having fair-minded FUMA opponents to play with; that looks less and less possible right now unfortunately). But for all that, we don't need to lose our critical faculties.

But its the best every AI to me. Not an AI without any fault or issue but the best ever yet. Unless you can point me to a more complete gameplay than this, of course you can pick an another perhaps PES4 where we did not have much issue with positioning but on the other hand the solo AI on the ball is out dated. So in that regard i could understand why would that be for example the best for you but i could point out issues in it. To me is efootball in its current state - and hopefully wont turn for the worst - is the best footy game on the pitch.

 

[Sovereign Hope]

As we ought to do to assess claims like "best AI ever".

I take your point that previous games have had problems. I just don't see why we're so forgiving to things like AI running in front of you and killing a move. Or AI retreating into a defensive position when they need to step up to intercept, very very obviously. It's bad. In 2022 with the technology available, it's just glaring and lazy. More realistically: it's not important to Konami because the biggest spenders don't care about this stuff. And the old-school fans are either totally disillusioned or willing to look past the many crap things to find the scraps of good things, so underfed have they been for so long.

I am maybe even in that latter camp – there's parts of this game I appreciate, and I can see myself maybe getting on with it. I've done so with all the recent PES games (the key for me is having fair-minded FUMA opponents to play with; that looks less and less possible right now unfortunately). But for all that, we don't need to lose our critical faculties.

Yeah i notice it too. For example my player and the opponent's player (A.I) went for loose ball but suddenly the A.I stopped halfway for god knows why.

I wonder if the devs even realise about this issue or they know it but dont really care. I see youtuber like MDknight and spoony mentioned about this too. I hope it gets more attention, more viral

 

[janguv]

I'm hearing that they've not reintroduced filters for pass assist or team strength levels on the new content released today. Probably won't bother then. Why play a team of legends/superstars, all on PA1 (i.e. the old PA3), spamming lofted through balls all match? It's mindless and frankly toxic – I mean the win-at-all-costs mentality, the urgent need to beat your opponent, rub in every goal, pursue every annoying exploit, etc.; it's all part of the same mentality.

With a pass assist filter (which has never been fine-grained enough for those who play with the least level of assistance outside of manual), at least you could have manual vs manual. And I'm yet to hear of friendly lobbies, even in Dream Team. Is that right? So the game is officially golden, 1.0 status, several months after release, and you still can't invite a friend to play against, even in the cash cow mode? Absolute fucking amateurs. This is such basic shit. At this rate I even look more fondly at the NFT-aids-ridden GOALS.

 

[Chris Davies]

This is why i think the Authentic pvp league mode events are great idea. Im gonna jump in after work and play US league or J-League and wait after the dust settles around Dream Team Season 1 because you get these crazy teams and even tho i can beat some of them, each match is like playing a world cup final's final 10 mins....

I've tried the J-League one. Lots of teams with different star levels. I went for a 2-star team (about average), thinking that the guys who play Dream Team and just want to play with the best players/teams will all hang out there.

Guess what. Played against Vissel Kobe three times in a f#@king row (the highest-rated team, with Iniesta in midfield). Basically the PSG equivalent.

People are so, f#@king, boring.

What I need personally to really enjoy online play again are friend-leagues. FIFA had it for a while and the Evo-Web leagues and cups were some of the best fun I've ever had with a game.

That, or playing with friends vs AI via Parsec (which is thankfully really easy to do).

 

[Mazen2020]

This is something that you bring up as a legacy issue as though to write it off as unimportant. I wrote about it as a legacy issue, in fact. I don't think that changes things. I don't see how this can be "best ever AI" when players aren't programmed to keep realistic team shapes. For context, I mean this sort of congestion as in the Spurs v Brighton game recently:

I keep this shape all game long, no issues. Just don't press with your last line.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

I've tried the J-League one. Lots of teams with different star levels. I went for a 2-star team (about average), thinking that the guys who play Dream Team and just want to play with the best players/teams will all hang out there.

Guess what. Played against Vissel Kobe three times in a f#@king row (the highest-rated team, with Iniesta in midfield). Basically the PSG equivalent.

People are so, f#@king, boring.

What I need personally to really enjoy online play again are friend-leagues. FIFA had it for a while and the Evo-Web leagues and cups were some of the best fun I've ever had with a game.

That, or playing with friends vs AI via Parsec (which is thankfully really easy to do).

Played a quick one in the US league, i was Miami vs...cant remember really it was a very slow and boring game compared to DT. However its more difficult in a sense you have to value every ball possession you have for a different reason as its very hard to create with lower teams. Ended with 1-1.

 

[Hayes]

Yeah just tried the game, still unplayable for me. In terms of performance this game went from 1 to 1.1.

My pc is not that high-end (4th gen i3, gtx 1660 ti, 8gb) and it could run pes 2021 smoothly but this game even at low settings 1280x720 (that's konami standards) couldnt even touch 60fps.

Everyone who own mid-range PC i dont recommend to download or install this game even if it's free, don't waste your data & time to get this crap. Play it on console instead, maybe it performs better.

 

[Matt10]

Forgot to agree with this yesterday. I've never understood the popularity of being able to sign these retired players. I live and breathe nostalgia but consider these players of their time, to be preserved by the video games featuring them in their pomp. It also means there are simply too many highly-skilled players available.

Second only to misanthropy, it's a major reason why I don't play online either.

Well said. Yes, I hate it. It's just unrealistic and results in every team looking the same. If I wanted to play a testimonial match video game, I'd watch it on youtube.

I really want this to be MLO, but that's wishful thinking I'm sure. Imagine if there was a way to filter out to standard players only.

 

[papinho81]

Yeah just tried the game, still unplayable for me. In terms of performance this game went from 1 to 1.1.

My pc is not that high-end (4th gen i3, gtx 1660 ti, 8gb) and it could run pes 2021 smoothly but this game even at low settings 1280x720 (that's konami standards) couldnt even touch 60fps.

Everyone who own mid-range PC i dont recommend to download or install this game even if it's free, don't waste your data & time to get this crap. Play it on console instead, maybe it performs better.

It actually performs better on console, but on the Xbox Series X, I would not call the experience a smooth one. I am playing footy game since PES17 with the player camera (rip player 2). With the player camera, efootball is unplayable on the X. It is laggy as f. Probably automatically caped to 30 fps but it still looks like it is bellow 30 fps.

On PC it is even dramatically worst. While previous PES were intensive on the CPU side, this one is ok for the CPU (I own a 6 years old i7 6700) but terrible for the GPU (RTX 3060 Ti).

 

[fregen]

So simple online vs matches and something like Online divisions isn't back I presume?

I think this game is OK but it's just sad I can't pick Ajax or whatever and just play some random dude online. Feck microtransactions.

 

[Chris Davies]

It's such a last-gen experience, with the invisible strings pulling your players this way or that.

There's just no such thing as a loose ball in this game.

I keep coming back to it because I need a football game, and it's undoubtedly a slower, more thoughtful game than FIFA is. But your input is absolutely pointless at times, and I can't help but feel infuriated by that, every time a "deflection" is just a perfect pass to their man in space.

 

[dissectionalone]

It's madness that I could run PES2021 on medium settings on my old PC (6th gen i5, 16Gb DDR3 RAM, GTX 960) and 4k60 on my new PC (11th gen i5, 16Gb DDR4, RTX 3070ti) yet eFootball can't do 1080p60 on my new one

That's the caveat with Unreal Engine right there. Unless the game is seriously well optimized, performance can be abismal. Either way, if I can actually play the game on my 11 year old PC with a crappy 1050 ti @ 1080p without stuttering, any of your machines should be able to handle it fine. Maybe avoiding the "niche" resolution for the time being and playing at a more reasonable resolution like 1440p would be a "better fit" (for now at least)

 

[nicetoknowyou]

Guys. Are all the online games are at night lighting?

 

[Goldstone]

Guys. Are all the online games are at night lighting?

They have been for me so far. Konami's decades long obsession with night games continues.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

It's such a last-gen experience, with the invisible strings pulling your players this way or that.

There's just no such thing as a loose ball in this game.

I keep coming back to it because I need a football game, and it's undoubtedly a slower, more thoughtful game than FIFA is. But your input is absolutely pointless at times, and I can't help but feel infuriated by that, every time a "deflection" is just a perfect pass to their man in space.

Hm i havent seen this exactly, but rather what you described if there is a rebound and its Vieira the opponent my players "dont care" as much as him. Same goes around when im facing very low teams of course. But havent seen such pingpong fest yet Of course not looking good.

 

[janguv]

What I need personally to really enjoy online play again are friend-leagues. FIFA had it for a while and the Evo-Web leagues and cups were some of the best fun I've ever had with a game.

*cough* Pro Evo Network... *cough*

Haha, jokes aside, this is the first time in about 6 years that I'm not playing in a season over on PEN or in an 11s league like WAPES. Partly it's burnout, but it's also upcoming life changes that make me think I won't be able to keep PES commitments.

It is, though, the only way I could stay sane playing online. It really makes a difference when you aren't filled with resentment at the state of humanity when you're trying to have a kickabout.

 

[janguv]

I keep this shape all game long, no issues. Just don't press with your last line.

I'm hesitant to even reply to you on this, because it's clear at this point that you will not see a serious fault in this game even if it's there. (When we pointed out the dogshit Maguire AI in an earlier clip, it was "oh no that's actually just the AI 'switching'..." etc etc.) eFootball will die the death of a thousand qualifications.

So, pre-rant over. What you are saying is false. You do not stay that congested along with the opponent's team all game long. You can approach something like this in eFootball by using certain playstyle options and making sure you're on +1 attacking. But that's about it.

Konami haven't suddenly returned to the days of noticing/caring about realistic team shapes and congestion. They don't want midfield battles in their game for the large part, because it means people score less often. They are, as ever these days, in the service of soliciting instant gratification. A meta is already establishing itself online: long through balls on high pass-assist to the forwards. That works so often simply because there's no congestion.

You are not special, and you have not uniquely fixed Konami's terrible positioning logic. And honestly, enough of us have eyes and can notice this shit. Attempts to explain it away, like you are doing with so many criticisms, are desperate if not toxic. If you're enjoying the game, fine, but please don't tell us that what's plain to see isn't actually there.

 

[fareasy]

Division matches are cancerous. Kickoff exploit and all that garbage.

 

[Mazen2020]

I'm hesitant to even reply to you on this, because it's clear at this point that you will not see a serious fault in this game even if it's there. (When we pointed out the dogshit Maguire AI in an earlier clip, it was "oh no that's actually just the AI 'switching'..." etc etc.) eFootball will die the death of a thousand qualifications.

So, pre-rant over. What you are saying is false. You do not stay that congested along with the opponent's team all game long. You can approach something like this in eFootball by using certain playstyle options and making sure you're on +1 attacking. But that's about it.

Konami haven't suddenly returned to the days of noticing/caring about realistic team shapes and congestion. They don't want midfield battles in their game for the large part, because it means people score less often. They are, as ever these days, in the service of soliciting instant gratification. A meta is already establishing itself online: long through balls on high pass-assist to the forwards. That works so often simply because there's no congestion.

You are not special, and you have not uniquely fixed Konami's terrible positioning logic. And honestly, enough of us have eyes and can notice this shit. Attempts to explain it away, like you are doing with so many criticisms, are desperate if not toxic. If you're enjoying the game, fine, but please don't tell us that what's plain to see isn't actually there.

Then I was being unclear. Maguire AI explanation was no excuse but an explanation what the bug is that causes this issue. It's easier for Konami to fix AI bugs when they know the issue.

I have a 35min video here explaining how to play to keep this exact shape all game long, it is for the German eFootball community so it's in German, but I can send it to you nonetheless. It has descriptive shapries drawn on the players at times

 

[vialli82]

Tried it, i won't make it long as i didn't played a long time., but i got really, really hard with the formation/tactics/everything menus.
The pitch it's just a blank line, not even separated from the rest, it looks like i'm playing a Waterpolo RPG;
Players card seems too big for positionning, and indidivuals stats positionning and highlighting seems it doesn't matter.

Otherwhise on the pitch, i was surprised by the lighting effects, the cutscenes. I don't found that game that ugly on PS5 at all.
Just basic, for once, better with HDR activated.
Everything said already here, but on the pitch @janguv description when someone i don't remember who, asked if the game will please him, is totally right.

No for tactics, ball physics (on shooting especially > looks like they push the ball strong or not more than they kick it)
Yes for inertia, dribbling, overall ball balance including speed.
Needs to play more : Players physics, but about the turning speed and the overall reaction it seems correct. Needs to play more regarding contacts.

BTW i can play personally without any issue on 10 minutes training mode. Weird that you start in training mode the first time with Portugal vs /don't remember, and they're a crowd. I was so focus on what i was doing with a close cam, i don't even remember if there was also a crowd or not, it was late lol.

But... And it's a big but, just for the tactics/formations menus/ players positionning on the pitch / stats too small and a bit confusing...

Don't even want to continue to be honest. I don't see myself doing a league or ML or whatever Offline and got that ugly upper basic thing everythime i launch. I ain't a tactic man, but i want to get immersed in a FOOTBALL game, nothing more. Not only that, there's others things that's annoy me, but in 3 words : too much confusing.

Cards are too big on the pitch, it's not footballistic at all, i don't care about the first menu when you launch the game but that... Is really important to me. Same as shooting. I shooted 5 time above the goal, 5 times i got impression to made the same shoot. But it could be enhanced.
I don't found the basis of the game like a Mobile game AT ALL, but a PS4 enhanced yes. Try mobile games and check: they're not even at PS3 level, animations, physics, AI except some FPS perhaps (far easier to build)

Last word : i was already preparing it in case of, but even if the game could be better : i hate the package. Don't want to edit on it. Don't even want to position my player on the pitch. I'll see in the future but my "preparation" was to say goodbye to new football games (no joke inside), PES, FIFA, UFL, Goallzz and all shit. And playing, retro. 8 directions? Whatever.

PES 5, 2008, and 2014 PS2 type only (not PS3), FIFA 08, 11 for PS3, 14 on PC, and finally. PES 21 (for my own taste, i don't care you like it or not but the game is challenging) and i could retry FIFA 16 but (edit) i just remember even with sliders, my issue was IGNITE. I just can't. Perhaps the 17 then...

Don't care about the rosters. Since the pandemic, i got hard to get interest in actual football and players : i don't care about them, and the team seems to completely change from a year to another even more than ever : no personality, no regulars etc. yes it's been since 6-7 years it's like that, but not that much changes.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

You can quit exhibition matches finally.

 

[vialli82]

Yes, i trought i should be an issue but no.
To me in terms of gameplay it's still a demo, i played essentially on training mode 5-6 games.
If, only if i got used to the tactics and all weird stuffs, i'm waiting for "Duals" mode (weird but i like that mode), Division as DreamTeam is well builded but not my type, and League/Cup (which is not even in the code unfortunately).

ML can't wait the next season. The season is ending, i don't really care. The issue i got with current ML, is you can't choose "simple" (old school) ML without all that talk, playing directly, and the impact on the players not explained for ex. if you don't make Z. Sanchez play, got a down arrow.
Having the choice. They can call it another name, for what i care.

I like League mode, but i love seeing the impact of increase or decrease of stats, progression, about my training consign etc.
So i'm used to play only one season, on different leagues.
But it will be again an ML very light if they gives the "progression + players aging" on the option.

 

[*aLe]

Also looking at FIFA 14 for the Xbox One so I think I've got my football fix for some time

Great game, that. Great game.
One of the FIFAs I liked the most.

 

[stvedran]

Now I had two games where I was winning, opponent quit, and didnt get points. Is this hapening often?