eFootball (All Platforms)

Mathgamer said:
“Animations are real at the time of motion capture, but how the animations are used in-game is important, and AI determines that,” says Kimura insightfully. “If something goes wrong here, users will not be able to concentrate on the game. It is necessary for players to choose the right movements in the game to create realism.”
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This is the one encouraging thing I take from that interview. Though I hope it's nothing like the "realistic contextual animations" they boasted about in PES 2020.
 
pacpes said:
This is the one encouraging thing I take from that interview. Though I hope it's nothing like the "realistic contextual animations" they boasted about in PES 2020.
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i so hope the AI and Animation tools in UE, that can directly react/interact with the users gameplay, are used by Konami! :PRAY:

well, i can interpret their lastest comments in a positive and negative way...! ;)
 
By the looks of it - we're getting seasonal update in disguise.
New engine - full price.
Gameplay-wise - copy and paste.

I dont think there's an actual plan, or path forward, when it comes to future of Pes.
Apart from new ways of milking online players.

Things like AI individuality most likely dont even exist on their To-Do list.
Next gen = better graphics.
Thats their focus. Mark my words - in the coming weeks you'll be seeing faces, hair, lightning, maybe grass...
Then the game will come out and the promises of a 3 year plan will start again.

If they touch anything other than graphics, if I see better AI, shots variety, or more features and customisations in Master League - I'll be utterly shocked.

I have literally zero hopes for any "magic" in Pes22. Just fluff.
 
Emroth said:
By the looks of it - we're getting seasonal update in disguise.
New engine - full price.
Gameplay-wise - copy and paste.

I dont think there's an actual plan, or path forward, when it comes to future of Pes.
Apart from new ways of milking online players.

Things like AI individuality most likely dont even exist on their To-Do list.
Next gen = better graphics.
Thats their focus. Mark my words - in the coming weeks you'll be seeing faces, hair, lightning, maybe grass...
Then the game will come out and the promises of a 3 year plan will start again.

If they touch anything other than graphics, if I see better AI, shots variety, or more features and customisations in Master League - I'll be utterly shocked.

I have literally zero hopes for any "magic" in Pes22. Just fluff.
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I agree. No longer-term development plan is clear to me. There appears to be such scattergun approaches to improvement that they've become completely dysfunctional.

They've stuck to their principles of measured gameplay, highlighted by their rival's increasingly comic book style. But then - at odds with that - they've chased FIFA to get a slice of that lucrative LIGHTS CAMERA ACTION ACTION SPIN SPIN SPEND SPEND LIGHTS (LOOK, NEW STADIUM) CAMERA ACTION GO GO GO SUPER MEGA WICKED AWESOME pie.

They don't know what they want, so they'll listen to the fans. Well, kinda engage with them a little bit. The developer Facebook page was a nice idea (although on a hiding to nothing, you could argue) until it dried up, leaving behind A Variety of Minor Adjustments to Each Mode to Improve the Overall Gaming Experience. What about for the next time out? A pretty bloody good survey was open for two weeks in November but they didn't promote it AT ALL on social media.

So many parallels with my own company. Innovation at the expense of preservation, or vice versa, depending on who you ask. And neither party wins.
 
Emroth said:
By the looks of it - we're getting seasonal update in disguise.
New engine - full price.
Gameplay-wise - copy and paste.

I dont think there's an actual plan, or path forward, when it comes to future of Pes.
Apart from new ways of milking online players.

Things like AI individuality most likely dont even exist on their To-Do list.
Next gen = better graphics.
Thats their focus. Mark my words - in the coming weeks you'll be seeing faces, hair, lightning, maybe grass...
Then the game will come out and the promises of a 3 year plan will start again.

If they touch anything other than graphics, if I see better AI, shots variety, or more features and customisations in Master League - I'll be utterly shocked.

I have literally zero hopes for any "magic" in Pes22. Just fluff.
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That is interesting. There's a chance it could be similar to how FIFA both used a slighty enhanced version of FIFA 14 on PS3 for their PS4 port but with nicer visuals and new real time cutscenes but also how Frostbite was basically again a visually enhanced version of Ignite only with worse inverse kinetics and collision detection.
 
Ameppe said:
The problem isn't that they are adding more cutscenes like commmentary boots cutscenes, Pes still needs those. The problem is these things will be useless if the game still plays like it does on Ps4 and modes are so limited.
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Well that's what I'm implying. Those decisions come at the expense of others that affect gameplay.
Emroth said:
By the looks of it - we're getting seasonal update in disguise.
New engine - full price.
Gameplay-wise - copy and paste.
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Strictly speaking, I don't think that's possible – the tools of Fox and the tools UE4/5 are not going to be cut and pasteable like that. That much encourages me; many things will have to be designed from a relatively fresh slate.
Emroth said:
Things like AI individuality most likely dont even exist on their To-Do list.
Next gen = better graphics.
Thats their focus. Mark my words - in the coming weeks you'll be seeing faces, hair, lightning, maybe grass...
Then the game will come out and the promises of a 3 year plan will start again
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... all this, however, could still be true. It's not that you'll get the same tired gameplay as this last gen, but that their priorities might well be in the direction of flashy stuff. Even the gameplay itself: make it "feel" good; make the "moments" that people want to watch esports for. Etc.

So in short: I don't think it's possible you'll get something like a Fox game on UE, but I do think older misgivings about the series will continue to be apt.
 
Emroth said:
I have literally zero hopes for any "magic" in Pes22. Just fluff.
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This springed to mind while reading your comment.

xWFeLSc.gif
 
Emroth said:
By the looks of it - we're getting seasonal update in disguise.
New engine - full price.
Gameplay-wise - copy and paste.

I dont think there's an actual plan, or path forward, when it comes to future of Pes.
Apart from new ways of milking online players.

Things like AI individuality most likely dont even exist on their To-Do list.
Next gen = better graphics.
Thats their focus. Mark my words - in the coming weeks you'll be seeing faces, hair, lightning, maybe grass...
Then the game will come out and the promises of a 3 year plan will start again.

If they touch anything other than graphics, if I see better AI, shots variety, or more features and customisations in Master League - I'll be utterly shocked.

I have literally zero hopes for any "magic" in Pes22. Just fluff.
Click to expand...

In terms of gameplay, I think what we get with PES22 will pretty much reveal what we can expect gameplay-wise for the rest of the PS5 lifespan.

If they're ever going to completely overhaul the gameplay, rethink it and implement a new vision for it, now is surely the only time it will happen, as they move the whole game to a new engine.

If they simply port over the existing gameplay to Unreal, but with a few gameplay tweaks, I don't see any prospect of AI, tactics, gameplay being anything more than the usual microscopic tweaks for the next 5+ years. I mean they're not going to spend 3 years coming up with whatever they come up with for PES22, only to save revolutionising the gameplay, and all the effort that will take, until 2 or 3 years time.

I can imagine that the "large updates" to ML referred to above will be the inclusion of more cut-scenes, only now they'll be photo-realistic.
 
Do you expect the game development team to dump the eighth generation game completely?

Such a thing is impossible. The gameplay of the eighth generation version is true, it had some problems, but not everything was bad. Many parts of the eighth generation gameplay can be used in the ninth generation, and the production team worked hard to provide good gameplay in the late eighth generation. One hundred percent of the gameplay of the ninth generation version will change a lot. The development team will make 100% use of the new graphics engine and powerful hardware of the ninth generation consoles. But do not expect to throw away all parts of the gameplay of the eighth generation version.

Something that needs to change fundamentally in the gameplay. It is artificial intelligence. The eighth generation AI was really bad. This part needs to be rebuilt. Also, the shooting part of the game should be reconstructed and the goalkeepers' animations and many other topics.

I'm sure the gameplay of the ninth generation version will change a lot and the development team will work on this.

My biggest fear is the game mods and its content. I hope the development team works on this. Also, I hope Creator Stadium will be added to the game and the game editor section will change a lot.

Another point is that the development team is clearly working on the weakness of the eighth generation version. It was the atmosphere of the game that seemed so outdated and weak. In a recent interview, it was revealed that the development team is working hard on the graphics, atmosphere, stadium atmosphere and realism.

The game has not been officially unveiled yet and the development team has not mentioned the main details of the game yet. All their talk is basically general.

We are waiting and I hope we will face the ninth generation masterpiece. This is our last hope for football fans.
 
I think this year i will buy the game despite my expectations being next to zero because it's still the first next gen Pes. I really hope it won't be another Pes 2014 disaster at launch.

Last time i played Pes was with Pes 2020 in 2019, that is a long time ago, i need a football game.
 
janguv said:
I fear it's way more likely we get slick visuals and last-gen quality gameplay. But we'll see. The framing of that PLAY Mag piece is a bit weird. It's as though they're anticipating Konami to "take" their "already great" gameplay and just plug it into a new engine. I swear these journos have no idea what an engine even is. Or how PES has played for an entire generation, either.

I keep coming back to posing the question: if you could design the gameplay elements and systems for a new PES almost from the ground up, what would you do? And now: what would you do if you were Konami in 2021? Because the answer to that last question is what scares me – they want to make a game that will meet certain criteria:

- Create "great moments" as a "competitive sport" suitable for Twitch and esports competitions
- Incentivise players to spend real money by playing modes with loot boxes in
- Have some credibility as the football game with better gameplay
- But still only interpret "gameplay" as "on-the-ball feel", largely not caring about opposition AI

My main hope given they have this opportunity to redesign so much of it is that they nuke the current overlapping tactical systems (there's like four or five, at least), and simplify it at both the user and the backend. I.e., not have it such that any number of contingent settings can make weird stuff happen on the pitch (like a player torn between: a position, a player style, a tactical instruction, a tactical setting, and an inspire setting, all at one time).
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I hope they gut the whole system and only keep pieces of the things that worked, my dream game would probably play like a mix between 2014 and 2017
 
Currently I have zero optimism. I would love to be wrong, I just feel the dev team is focusing only on graphics, graphics and the frigging sweat. And when they say, on this interview, that the last PES games have this fluid gameplay… eh, I don’t know what to say. Did they even play 2020 or 2021?
 
Mathgamer said:
PES 2022 SHOOTS FOR PHOTOREALISM

Konami reveals its ambition to create the best-looking PES ever on PS5

With Konami revealing it’ll miss this year’s E3 (which is now an online conference beginning on 12 June), some fans have been left fearful this year’s eFootball PES 2022 will be delayed. While we have no news on whether that’s the case, Seitaro Kimura, eFootball PES series producer at KonamiDigital Entertainment, has spoken to us aboutthe team’s ambition for the next instalment. It’s exciting news, and gives us confidence the game will release as usualthis autumn.

Importantly, this year’s game is a reset that’s aiming to push PlayStation 5. Fans were concerned this could be similar to the transition PES made from PS2 to PS3, which saw the Fox-Engine-powered soccer sim stumble before coming back strong on PS4. The next game will drop Fox Engine in favour of Unreal Engine, pointing to a bold new future as we anticipate the photoreal results teased by Epic Games during last year’s Unreal Engine 5 reveal. A photoreal football sim on PS5, with visuals matching the PES series’ renowned attention to detail and tactical gameplay? Sounds like a match made in heaven. “I think it is important to be able to experience the excitement and sense of accomplishment that football has, in the game,” says Kimura when we ask what a PS5 ‘next-gen’ football game needs to offer. “Not to mention being able to play games in photorealism…” he teases. Speaking specifically about the challenge of meeting expectations for a PS5 game, and the desire for photorealism, Kimura reveals the team’s views on beginning the era of PES on Sony’s new-gen console. “The performance of PS5 is incredible, and while benefiting from it, we have faced many challenges and feel that we are steadily approaching ‘the next level’ step by step,” he says, before explaining further. “However, no matter how good the performance of PS5 is, there are various restrictions, and therefore, I think it is an extremely difficult road to reach ‘the next level’. This is because the ‘photorealism’ we aim for is exactly the reproduction of the real world itself.”

Kimura points out a great challenge in the pursuit of realism in sports games: while shooters and fantasy roleplayers can dupe us into accepting something as real because their locations are imaginary, football games like PES 2022 need to recreate the world, the stars, and the stadia we know from real life. Kimura explains: “This [next-level realism] includes atmosphere of the stadium and the enthusiastic supporters, the players’ passionate facial expressions, the texture of the skin and hair, and detailed movement of their muscles and sweat. Even the seams of the uniforms.” The PES 2022 developer says making the new game photoreal is a cumulative process, one in which every detail adds to the sense of realism. “We can say that ‘photorealism’ could be achieved only by reproducing all these phenomena,” says Kimura, adding: “And to get there, we need to face yet more challenges.”

GOAL NEW WORLD

We’ve already seen in other sports games how attention to the small things can dramatically boost the sense of realism. For example, NBA 2K21’s focus on crowd AI and the mundane detail of a hotdog vendor mingling in the crowd or fans leaving during breaks in the action heightens the sense of believability. “In my opinion, it’s about recreating the real world itself,” says Kimura, who adds that attention to detail in PES 2022 will be a mixture of player reactions and expressive behaviour as well as crowd and stadium animation. “The general definition would be reproducing a live-action expression, however, that alone can lead to an inorganic and imperfect world. We believe that ‘photorealism’ will be completed by adding various ‘elements’ to impress users […] Users know what the players look like, they’ve seen the enthusiastic supporters, and they’ve felt the atmosphere of the stadium. Therefore, the ‘virtual deception’ is much harder. However, this is the exact reason why we feel the challenge in this field is worth it.” Achieving photorealism with PES 2022 is “indeed hard”, admits the developer, but says using Unreal Engine is enabling the team to achieve results. Getting technical, he tells us: “One specific example is that with Unreal Engine, designers can take on various tasks without programmers’ help by using Blueprint. By doing so, we believe that we can improve the production speed, improve the skills of individual designers, and receive many other benefits.”

TRICK SHOT

Achieving photorealism also requires knowledge of the real world, and recreating how we think we experience watching football goes beyond just technical accomplishments. “Of course, factors such as lighting, animation, framerate, and resolution are very important and necessary, but this is not enough,” shares Kimura. “In addition to these elements, we must have the knowledge and skills of a camera for photo development in order to obtain ‘photorealism’. We learn how an actual lens captures the light and other features, and consider that expressing these phenomena is important."

The way Kimura talks about achieving lifelike visuals in PES 2022 leads us to expect something incredible from the next iteration of the series on PS5. The developer suggests that with such heightened graphics, any mistakes in realising a lifelike recreation of football will be noticeable. The team is working hard to merge the fluid gameplay seen in the series’ last two excellent PS4 releases with photoreal animation and modelling. “Animations are real at the time of motion capture, but how the animations are used in-game is important, and AI determines that,” says Kimura insightfully. “If something goes wrong here, users will not be able to concentrate on the game. It is necessary for players to choose the right movements in the game to create realism.” We pose the idea PES 2022 will have the most realistic Messi beard yet. “Of course,” says Kimura, “please look forward to the quality of Messi,” adding: “But as for beards, you will have to wait and see if Messi actually has a beard when the next title is released.”

Source: Play Magazine

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Slightly encouraging to read about the crowd AI. Let's hope they focus on the noise. Currently no jeers, no reaction to substitutes, heavy tackles, fast counter attacks, fouls, cards, wayward shots, and hardly any chanting. Abysmal in these times.
 
tosser said:
Slightly encouraging to read about the crowd AI. Let's hope they focus on the noise. Currently no jeers, no reaction to substitutes, heavy tackles, fast counter attacks, fouls, cards, wayward shots, and hardly any chanting. Abysmal in these times.
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Most of this stuff is already doable in fox. I remember in 2020 and 21, if you keep passing around in the Emirates, the crowd will start cheering at every pass after a few of those. Milan derby also had a lot of dynamic stuff in 2014.
 
All the games from PES 2016 to PES 2021 are technically based on PES 2015 with no true 360 degree passing, dribbling, movement and horrible ball physics. We can tell they already believe PES 2015 is the ideal foundation they have to follow for future installments. I don't expect much yet as I believe PES 2022 is gonna be fundamentally more of similar things since 2015 except it is being developed with new engine.
 
its999maggle said:
Most of this stuff is already doable in fox. I remember in 2020 and 21, if you keep passing around in the Emirates, the crowd will start cheering at every pass after a few of those. Milan derby also had a lot of dynamic stuff in 2014.
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There is an even older PES, can't recall if it is from Fox era or previous, if you stuck more than 20 consecutive passes, every next successfull pass comes with an "Olé" and applause from the crowd.
 
tosser said:
Slightly encouraging to read about the crowd AI. Let's hope they focus on the noise. Currently no jeers, no reaction to substitutes, heavy tackles, fast counter attacks, fouls, cards, wayward shots, and hardly any chanting. Abysmal in these times.
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When the ooohhhsss and aaaahhhssss go through the ranks… it can be so atmospheric!! I like it when it’s integrated in a good way, like older titles of football did. No AI needed, imo, but yes, let’s see what that department brings to the table for a better experience.
slamsoze said:
There is an even older PES, can't recall if it is from Fox era or previous, if you stuck more than 20 consecutive passes, every next successfull pass comes with an "Olé" and applause from the crowd.
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👏 I remember that as well but forgot what title it was. I am still having an ear lend to this when playing a new title. It’s like my body is awaiting this kinda stuff.

One thought: A huge challenge when creating a game by ourselves, would surley be the time we spent with those small additions!
basic gameplay but a lot of coin tosses, crowd cheers and socks changing! :LOL:
 
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PRO_TOO said:
When the ooohhhsss and aaaahhhssss go through the ranks… it can be so atmospheric!! I like it when it’s integrated in a good way, like older titles of football did. No AI needed, imo, but yes, let’s see what that department brings to the table for a better experience.

👏 I remember that as well but forgot what title it was. I am still having an ear lend to this when playing a new title. It’s like my body is awaiting this kinda stuff.

One thought: A huge challenge when creating a game by ourselves, would surly be the time we spent with those small additions!
basic gameplay but a lot of coin tosses, crowd cheers and socks changing! :LOL:
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Don't forget the nets.
Different shapes, colours, patterns... Tight and loose... And with real physics!
 
For me about gameplay first thing would be Ball Physics, after that animation smoothness (specially when one animation changing into another) ...
If I could chose only one --- its Ball Physics.

I dont understand why it is considered good in last 5-6 PES games, because almost every goal is the same when it comes to how ball is behaving. Fifa is much better in this than PES, and I would love to see that changes.
 
PRO_TOO said:
When the ooohhhsss and aaaahhhssss go through the ranks… it can be so atmospheric!! I like it when it’s integrated in a good way, like older titles of football did. No AI needed, imo, but yes, let’s see what that department brings to the table for a better experience.

👏 I remember that as well but forgot what title it was. I am still having an ear lend to this when playing a new title. It’s like my body is awaiting this kinda stuff.
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to add to this I want booos and jeers when a certain player receives a pass, I also wish they would do more when one of your ex players score against you, something like crazy adebayor levels of trolling if the player never got a run in your ML squad, or a more respectful muted celebration if he was a youth player or a crowd fave :THINK:

 
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