EA SPORTS FC 25

[Matt10]

I've tweeted about this today and my biggest issue is the player roles + focus. There is a significant disconnect here where the tactics dominate common football sense of attacking vs defending. In this day and age, players should accept that their role will include equal responsibility - yet in FC25, if the right role+focus isn't assigned, you get a completely indifferent player to want to move into space for a run off the ball and also not have any care to come back and defend.

Burton Albion are a great example of this. Attacking in a 5-2-3, defending in a... 5-2-3.

Or you have my beloved Fulham, who attack in a 4-2-3-1, but defend in a 4-4-2. However in FC25, they attack and defend in a 4-2-3-1. I have to move them to a 4-1-4-1 which allows for box-box midfielders as my double pivot because in the 4-2-3-1 that double pivot is instead two holding midfielders that don't join the attack. That's the role they are PRESET for.

I'd say 90% of teams are set-up tactically incorrect to be effective. They may show what their base is IRL, but their movement on the pitch is far from it.

I have coached a lot of youth soccer (9v9) these last 3-4 years and I will say you don't think about player roles and their focus - you just simply have an attacking formation and a defensive formation. I don't tell my U10s that Johnny on the RM is a holding midfielder, so he doesn't move up into the attack. No, I say we attack in a 2-4-2 (9v9) and anyone who plays RM will attack and defend that right hand side. What ends up happening is we attack in a 2-4-2 diamond, and we defend in a 3-3-2 flat. That isn't based on the role I've given Johnny, it's simply the philosophy that everyone gets.

I just don't understand why this tactical change was needed. FC24 was fine without it. Yes, the user has more control - but the CPU doesn't. The tactical and dynamic CPU sliders are basically a preset of possibly 6-10 packages that some teams use. It doesn't change if the CPU wants to make their Inside-forward a winger with a defending focus as they lead in the 89th minute.

Even continuing with this new found "FCIQ", the most notable form of showing zero football IQ is not having a defending tactic that follows the attacking tactic. It's illogical to the design of the game because its based on 1v1 in multiple parts of the pitch. Essentially this new FCIQ has countered itself against that 1v1 logic and is now basically a 1v0 and manufactures itself into what looks like a constant overload of 2v1 or 3v1 depending on whether the outside midfielder tracks back to help the outside back or not.

There's a good game in there, it's just hampered with what PES did years ago in focusing on "tactics, player roles/cards, gameplay logic" in that order. It's why long balls to a short forward never stopped happening for the CPU in that series. FC25 has now essentially done the same, but in multiple areas of the pitch. Somewhat fix one issue, and another one comes up. From a slider perspective, we're just trying to bait the CPU into defending or their teammates attack by making runs off the ball in logical positions. That comes with sacrifices in shape and attitude though where lower lines means there is more instant-retreating and bunching up in certain parts of the pitch before it expands naturally.

I doubt EA will fix this, so there will be a requirement, at least for me, to either edit the teams before starting a career mode or switching sides with second controller/keyboard and hoping tactics stick.

 

[saturator]

After more than 30 matches, I think this game is good but have some issues.

First, the rythme was really good once simulation mode, you can reproduce it with your own sliders.

When you are on the pitch, the game looks better than EA FC 24. Ray traycing maybe was a good choice to shine in this area. Players modelisation is very good, the scan from Marseille, PSG are impressive.

But what happen on the pitch ? I didn't thinking that EA will go to this direction : reduced acceleration, adding more realistic moves, adding wind and wheather effets. That is nice.

As a FUMA player, I love the feeling this year. You have to be more focused because the CPU defense is really great. Midfield battles are real.

I think it's the best FIFA/EA FC for years but it needs some tweaks.
I don't know why but it's difficult to have faults from CPU. The referee is bad but there are not many strong contact in my games. I have some freekicks but not many.

EA needs to make the CPU more aggressiv. Even with the slider "tackle aggression" on 90-99, I haven't foul.

Sometimes, CPU players won't play foreward and goes to their own area. I have a match with Vitinha from PSG didn't want to pass and keep the ball.

But I'm happy to see many cross, long shots from CPU.
This game could be a massiv step in the right direction with 2-3 tweaks on the CPU logic.

 

[DexX]

Hi !

So, having not played FIFA in recent years, except for modded FIFA 16, I’d like to share my opinion (PC version).

And I must say, I’m quite surprised this year. With the simulation and tactical modes, I’m actually enjoying myself.

You can feel that the ball physics have been slightly improved, although there’s still that gliding sensation.
There’s also this impression of lightness in the players, like they all have the same body type.

Otherwise, I never thought I’d say this, but I’m having fun!

And the new additions to Career Mode, with some Football Manager-like features, are really nice! I think EA is heading in the right direction, they just need to improve the ball/player physics/CPU gameplay.

The game modes are there (unlike PES), there’s a lot of content, the graphics are decent (in my opinion), and the match immersion is good.

Anyway, I’ve finished my 10-hour trial, and I’ll see if I decide to buy it permanently.
I started a career with Portsmouth, so we’ll see if I continue to enjoy the game after several matches!

Have a nice day.

 

[seppovich]

...
But what happen on the pitch ? I didn't thinking that EA will go to this direction : reduced acceleration, adding more realistic moves, adding wind and wheather effets. That is nice.
As a FUMA player, I love the feeling this year. You have to be more focused because the CPU defense is really great. Midfield battles are real.
I think it's the best FIFA/EA FC for years but it needs some tweaks.
...
This game could be a massiv step in the right direction with 2-3 tweaks on the CPU logic.

I agree. Played 15 matches so far against the ai and it really is fun offline.

 

[Emroth]

I just don't understand why this tactical change was needed

It's a very strange thing to say, Matt.
Last couple of years we literally had traffic cones on the pitch and the only moving element was controlled player.
There was almost no AI.
Now we have busy midfield, covered flanks, AI is varied and people have to work hard to create chances.
It's a huge step up in terms how AI plays.
And big part of this improvement are the tactical changes and AI roles. If you play on custom sliders without SIM mode enabled - there is a clear downgrade in how AI behaves.

I have coached a lot of youth soccer (9v9) these last 3-4 years and I will say you don't think about player roles and their focus - you just simply have an attacking formation and a defensive formation. I don't tell my U10s that Johnny on the RM is a holding midfielder, so he doesn't move up into the attack

Of course you don't, because you are an amateur coach and they are kids.
Understanding individual roles would just be too much for them and at young age they just need to learn how to play as a team.

 

[Studdi]

It's a very strange thing to say, Matt.
Last couple of years we literally had traffic cones on the pitch and the only moving element was controlled player.
There was almost no AI.
Now we have busy midfield, covered flanks, AI is varied and people have to work hard to create chances.
It's a huge step up in terms how AI plays.
And big part of this improvement are the tactical changes and AI roles. If you play on custom sliders without SIM mode enabled - there is a clear downgrade in how AI behaves.


Of course you don't, because you are an amateur coach and they are kids.
Understanding individual roles would just be too much for them and at young age they just need to learn how to play as a team.

I’m seeing it like Matt. Tactical wise fc24 was better then fc25.
Offensive it’s ok with some player roles but others are not pushing forward at any point.
Defense is just not there in fc25 they need to do the same thing for a defense tactic like they do for offense at least.

It’s not realistic that there are 3-4 players standing at the midfield line not defending at all. Even offensive top teams have to defend in lower blocks when the other team is attacking.
City and Liverpool are doing this also. It’s never like 3 players are just chilling at the midfield line and just 6 players are defending.

Also the 3 at the back systems are broken if you have an offense wingback in attack he doesn’t fill up the defense.

In fc24 it was possible that players where defending at a low block and also the defenders of the attacking team was pushing up higher than mit field line.

the other thing that never goes into my had is the goal kick. Why isn’t it possible to have the short goal kicks inside the box and opposite team is pressing at the box.
Pes had it years ago even on old gen.
It’s just football tactical wise not a football game at all.
The gameplay is better than fc24 but tactical it’s worse.

There shout also be instructions like man marking or something many teams are doing this in todays footbal while pressing etc.

The 4-2-3-1 system is also a good example nearly every team with this formation is defending in a 4-4-2 and not 4-2-3-1

 

[Chris Davies]

I have coached a lot of youth soccer (9v9) these last 3-4 years and I will say you don't think about player roles and their focus - you just simply have an attacking formation and a defensive formation.

I have to say Matt, that may well be the way it's taught at that level, but Football Manager is a simulator - these guys work with current managers, and players, to ensure the tactical setup is the closest thing to real-life as possible (with monthly talks on various individual topics from the likes of Sean Dyche, and even Marco Silva).

According to them, you don't "simply have" an attacking formation and a defensive formation. In order to have those setups, you have a series of individual instructions that govern who moves where in what phases.

Spoiler

As for (in a nutshell) player runs being nerfed - yeah, I pointed out in this clip just how static it is:



Players should be making runs - and if they're not right for the role, poor runs, forcing us sideways/backwards with our passes.

I can press the "player run" button and force him to move, but I can't force his teammates to give him options in that moment (good or bad dependent on their attributes).

That said - if the players have + or ++ ratings for their roles, they will make the run(s), and personally I prefer this balance to the non-stop attacking runs from all FCs before now.

For me, the core of your post is "the game was more realistic before because it doesn't function properly with the 1v1 core". I would argue that NEITHER are realistic because of the 1v1 core. THAT is the problem and always has been.

Any attempts (with sliders or otherwise) to disguise the 1v1 core are simply attempts to make the balance "feel" nicer and make you forget for a moment the huge, ever-present issue that nobody off-the-ball is behaving like a footballer ever would.

I don't believe that certain players aren't defending because of their instructions; it's the AI not allowing them to. The AI is blind to the opposition players - in BOTH games - until they receive the ball.

How can you make a football game (or claim either is a football game) when that is the case?

If they ever decide to make the game a team sport again, and introduce the defensive AI FIFA 16 had, we'd get something special.

But as it is now... Well, the balance of the game is much better in my opinion, mostly because of the tactical changes. It's not amazing, and I'd never argue that it is.

But to say FC24 is better in any way, with 1v1, huge holes and crazy scorelines with or without sliders - hugely disagree. As an overall picture, this is a more sensible and realistic game - movement might not be realistic, but it wasn't before. The new kind of unrealistic is better than the old kind.

 

[Matt10]

It's a very strange thing to say, Matt.
Last couple of years we literally had traffic cones on the pitch and the only moving element was controlled player.
There was almost no AI.
Now we have busy midfield, covered flanks, AI is varied and people have to work hard to create chances.
It's a huge step up in terms how AI plays.
And big part of this improvement are the tactical changes and AI roles. If you play on custom sliders without SIM mode enabled - there is a clear downgrade in how AI behaves.


Of course you don't, because you are an amateur coach and they are kids.
Understanding individual roles would just be too much for them and at young age they just need to learn how to play as a team.

Sim mode doesn't make a difference in regards to how the role+focus makes someone not defend or join in the attack. So the 4-2-3-1 is pointless as a double pivot. That's just one example.

My comment about being a coach was that it was meant to illustrate how simple the game needs to be first from a programming perspective. FC25 is built to sprint before it even knows how to walk. You don't teach kids about formations before they even know what side/zone of the field they need to cover. You don't program a game that is built on only 1v1 and stagnant defenders with complex roles+focus to the point they look completely indifferent in not only defense, but also the attack.

I’m seeing it like Matt. Tactical wise fc24 was better then fc25.
Offensive it’s ok with some player roles but others are not pushing forward at any point.
Defense is just not there in fc25 they need to do the same thing for a defense tactic like they do for offense at least.

It’s not realistic that there are 3-4 players standing at the midfield line not defending at all. Even offensive top teams have to defend in lower blocks when the other team is attacking.
City and Liverpool are doing this also. It’s never like 3 players are just chilling at the midfield line and just 6 players are defending.

Also the 3 at the back systems are broken if you have an offense wingback in attack he doesn’t fill up the defense.

In fc24 it was possible that players where defending at a low block and also the defenders of the attacking team was pushing up higher than mit field line.

the other thing that never goes into my had is the goal kick. Why isn’t it possible to have the short goal kicks inside the box and opposite team is pressing at the box.
Pes had it years ago even on old gen.
It’s just football tactical wise not a football game at all.
The gameplay is better than fc24 but tactical it’s worse.

There shout also be instructions like man marking or something many teams are doing this in todays footbal while pressing etc.

The 4-2-3-1 system is also a good example nearly every team with this formation is defending in a 4-4-2 and not 4-2-3-1

This is what I'm saying, I also think the gameplay is good, but tactically it doesn't make sense to not have a defensive specific tactic like in previous iterations - and the ability to physically move players. The 4-2-3-1 example again is perfect where it's preset with two CDMs, so that's saying a 6 and an 8 are both CDMs. What about Wide Midfielders? "Rarely ventures forward to attack".

The CPU doesn't get to have a run into that obvious space because #11 is a Wide Midfielder:

I have to say Matt, that may well be the way it's taught at that level, but Football Manager is a simulator - these guys work with current managers, and players, to ensure the tactical setup is the closest thing to real-life as possible (with monthly talks on various individual topics from the likes of Sean Dyche, and even Marco Silva).

According to them, you don't "simply have" an attacking formation and a defensive formation. In order to have those setups, you have a series of individual instructions that govern who moves where in what phases.

For me, the core of your post is "the game was more realistic before because the 1v1 core breaks it". I would argue that NEITHER are realistic because of the 1v1 core. THAT is the problem. FCIQ, in my opinion, is absolutely NOT the problem.

The midfield doing absolutely nothing defensively, for example, is a 1v1 problem. Not an FCIQ problem. If they ever decide to make the game a team sport again, and introduce the defensive AI FIFA 16 had, we'd get something special.

But as it is now... Well, the balance of the game is much better in my opinion, directly because of the tactical changes. It's not amazing, and I'd never argue that it is.

But to say FC24 is better in any way, with 1v1, huge holes and crazy scorelines with or without sliders - hugely disagree.

Right, again, did FC25 need to have Football Manager level of tactical complexity though? Even if it did, and was welcomed, how's the execution looking when 3 forwards below are hopped up on the offensive half when the ball is in their own defensive third? Watford attacking and defending in a 5-2-3, and because of the rigidity of the tactics - they are 100% going to stay there.



I never said FC24 was a better game. Tactically it just makes more sense to have it's structure as a base. Then after that is set, then have the addition of roles+focus - but not by removing the base. The two small examples I just provided illustrate that. Yes it has other issues, but that's not the topic at hand.

Like previous iterations it had an attack/defense tactic that physically moved players into their positions on the ball and off the ball. That's the base. If FC25 had kept that, then we'd at least have the base. In its current state, there is no base. Go use a 4-2-3-1 and understand that a lot of teams use that formation. So you're going to play a lot of teams that don't push their two central midfielders up the pitch. Same goes with wide midfielders, they're not going to be running into open space - so don't bother marking them in your defensive third.

FC25 is unnecessarily complex in its tactics because it's ignored it's own design of 1v1, and then designed a tactic that basically exposes it further because the design was too stupid to begin with.

I'm not sure how you can say the balance is better when the tactical changes are the reason there are overloads all over the pitch - which is the complete opposite of balance. That's the point I made in my OP.

I think they improved the gameplay a lot more and used some logic in player interactions in those 1v1 moments to be better. They did a great thing with having lower Sprint values (Sim mode uses 32) actually mean the progression from jogging-to-sprinting wasn't as immediate. This means we have a calmer game because players aren't sprinting around like headless chickens, and users can't directly expose the tactical issues immediately. Bump that Sprint slider value up to 40 or 50, now it's sprint all day. Those spaces are easier to get into and exposes issues that the likes of FC24 and previous games did - and it's made worse because a preset tactic that is focused on only attacking means the fullback has no support from their winger defensively.

So many of the gameplay changes are welcomed. The tactics may have helped in some spots, but at the core they are hurting a lot of the potential the game has to be incredible.

Thankfully, with a second controller/keyboard, I can go in and edit those tactics for the CPU. I don't get to play against a 4-2-3-1 anymore, but changing them to a 4-1-4-1 makes the game much more manageable because it's one of the formations where I can set up teams to use box-to-box midfielders - essentially manufacturing the double pivot. Not everyone can do that, and they shouldn't have to.

 

[philla]

I would even say movement is the biggest enhancement compared to EA24. Unfortunatly, it is still not even close to the genre standards.

I am not really really sure if a simple, general gamespeed slider would help, because there is a significant inconsistancy in animations and ball physics.

 

[Matt10]

I would even say movement is the biggest enhancement compared to EA24. Unfortunatly, it is still not even close to the genre standards.

I am not really really sure if a simple, general gamespeed slider would help, because there is a significant inconsistancy in animations and ball physics.

Are you using weather effects on my chance? We have seen some strange ball physics with it enabled, but primarily in adverse weather of course. The wind feature is a good addition.

 

[dinono10]

With all this discussion about tactics what are the sliders everyone is using for the AI? Obviously Sim settings for us.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Are you using weather effects on my chance? We have seen some strange ball physics with it enabled, but primarily in adverse weather of course. The wind feature is a good addition.

Myself, I stepped it down a notch. Had it on heavy, but now it’s back to medium.
I had some strange ball behavior.

When I first noticed this option, I was delighted. But then again I’m asking myself… How is that implemented and is it done well.

 

[hatesince97]

Myself, I stepped it down a notch. Had it on heavy, but now it’s back to medium.
I had some strange ball behavior.

When I first noticed this option, I was delighted. But then again I’m asking myself… How is that implemented and is it done well.

Medium is definitely the way to go. High makes the ball act like a sort of boomerang during rain weather

 

[Emroth]

One of the things I always loved about FIFA was that every new game had some hilarious bugs at the start.
They never happen to me, which is a shame, coz I would love to see some of them.

Behold, coz I have something epic for you.

Some guys player won Player of the Season award and there was a cutscene of the ceremony.
And all his teammates showed up in their underpants:

Spoiler

(Credit to Reddit)

 

[Ezequiel Vanzin]

One of the things I always loved about FIFA was that every new game had some hilarious bugs at the start.
They never happen to me, which is a shame, coz I would love to see some of them.

Behold, coz I have something epic for you.

Some guys player won Player of the Season award and there was a cutscene of the ceremony.
And all his teammates showed up in their underpants:

Spoiler

View attachment 305499View attachment 305500View attachment 305501

(Credit to Reddit)

Who knows, maybe the award ceremony was at a water club lol! 😄

 

[broxopios]

If you put the gameplay aside (which I'm starting to get used to and trying to bury its negatives as much as possible), FUT as a mode setup is excellent. You can spend hours on it. It's a reason to dedicate time to EA FC.

 

[dinono10]

Anyone copying the simulation settings but bumping up runs and sprint speed?

 

[PRO_TOO]

One of the things I always loved about FIFA was that every new game had some hilarious bugs at the start.
They never happen to me, which is a shame, coz I would love to see some of them.

Behold, coz I have something epic for you.

Some guys player won Player of the Season award and there was a cutscene of the ceremony.
And all his teammates showed up in their underpants:

Spoiler

View attachment 305499View attachment 305500View attachment 305501

(Credit to Reddit)

Your comment made me remember the clip from @Chris Davies where he shouts at the tv… and fifa reacts.
Please bring that one up again Chris. 🥳

 

[Chris Davies]

Your comment made me remember the clip from @Chris Davies where he shouts at the tv… and fifa reacts.
Please bring that one up again Chris. 🥳

Long gone I'm afraid, don't have a Twitter account now that it's a right-wing cesspit.

However, I did just see this - and of course, nobody here would ever use an exploit like this because it ruins the fun, BUT the fact that the engine is so simplistic that it allows this to happen (and be very easily repeated), does really worry me:

 

[saturator]

New sliders set is ready
PSG is the CPU

 

[Emroth]

Guys - I don't know how long we will have this online gameplay before patches destroy it, so I really recommend you to try Online Seasons with Manual filter on!
I'm having such brilliant matches!
No idiots, No craziness, just people who want to play football. Most of them are better than me, but I'm squeezing a draw and a win here and there. And it feels so satisfying! Especially when you play weaker team.
Really nice pace, low scores and very rewarding goals.