It's a very strange thing to say, Matt.
Last couple of years we literally had traffic cones on the pitch and the only moving element was controlled player.
There was almost no AI.
Now we have busy midfield, covered flanks, AI is varied and people have to work hard to create chances.
It's a huge step up in terms how AI plays.
And big part of this improvement are the tactical changes and AI roles. If you play on custom sliders without SIM mode enabled - there is a clear downgrade in how AI behaves.
Of course you don't, because you are an amateur coach and they are kids.
Understanding individual roles would just be too much for them and at young age they just need to learn how to play as a team.
Sim mode doesn't make a difference in regards to how the role+focus makes someone not defend or join in the attack. So the 4-2-3-1 is pointless as a double pivot. That's just one example.
My comment about being a coach was that it was meant to illustrate how simple the game needs to be first from a programming perspective. FC25 is built to sprint before it even knows how to walk. You don't teach kids about formations before they even know what side/zone of the field they need to cover. You don't program a game that is built on only 1v1 and stagnant defenders with complex roles+focus to the point they look completely indifferent in not only defense, but also the attack.
I’m seeing it like Matt. Tactical wise fc24 was better then fc25.
Offensive it’s ok with some player roles but others are not pushing forward at any point.
Defense is just not there in fc25 they need to do the same thing for a defense tactic like they do for offense at least.
It’s not realistic that there are 3-4 players standing at the midfield line not defending at all. Even offensive top teams have to defend in lower blocks when the other team is attacking.
City and Liverpool are doing this also. It’s never like 3 players are just chilling at the midfield line and just 6 players are defending.
Also the 3 at the back systems are broken if you have an offense wingback in attack he doesn’t fill up the defense.
In fc24 it was possible that players where defending at a low block and also the defenders of the attacking team was pushing up higher than mit field line.
the other thing that never goes into my had is the goal kick. Why isn’t it possible to have the short goal kicks inside the box and opposite team is pressing at the box.
Pes had it years ago even on old gen.
It’s just football tactical wise not a football game at all.
The gameplay is better than fc24 but tactical it’s worse.
There shout also be instructions like man marking or something many teams are doing this in todays footbal while pressing etc.
The 4-2-3-1 system is also a good example nearly every team with this formation is defending in a 4-4-2 and not 4-2-3-1
This is what I'm saying, I also think the gameplay is good, but tactically it doesn't make sense to not have a defensive specific tactic like in previous iterations - and the ability to physically move players. The 4-2-3-1 example again is perfect where it's preset with two CDMs, so that's saying a 6 and an 8 are both CDMs. What about Wide Midfielders? "Rarely ventures forward to attack".
The CPU doesn't get to have a run into that obvious space because #11 is a Wide Midfielder:
I have to say Matt, that may well be the way it's taught at that level, but Football Manager is a simulator - these guys work with current managers, and players, to ensure the tactical setup is the closest thing to real-life as possible (with monthly talks on various individual topics from the likes of Sean Dyche, and even Marco Silva).
According to them, you don't "simply have" an attacking formation and a defensive formation. In order to have those setups, you have a series of individual instructions that govern who moves where in what phases.
For me, the core of your post is "the game was more realistic before because the 1v1 core breaks it". I would argue that NEITHER are realistic because of the 1v1 core. THAT is the problem. FCIQ, in my opinion, is absolutely NOT the problem.
The midfield doing absolutely nothing defensively, for example, is a 1v1 problem. Not an FCIQ problem. If they ever decide to make the game a team sport again, and introduce the defensive AI FIFA 16 had, we'd get something special.
But as it is now... Well, the balance of the game is much better in my opinion, directly because of the tactical changes. It's not amazing, and I'd never argue that it is.
But to say FC24 is better in any way, with 1v1, huge holes and crazy scorelines with or without sliders - hugely disagree.
Right, again, did FC25 need to have Football Manager level of tactical complexity though? Even if it did, and was welcomed, how's the execution looking when 3 forwards below are hopped up on the offensive half when the ball is in their own defensive third? Watford attacking and defending in a 5-2-3, and because of the rigidity of the tactics - they are 100% going to stay there.
I never said FC24 was a better game. Tactically it just makes more sense to have it's structure as a base. Then after that is set, then have the addition of roles+focus - but not by removing the base. The two small examples I just provided illustrate that. Yes it has other issues, but that's not the topic at hand.
Like previous iterations it had an attack/defense tactic that physically moved players into their positions on the ball and off the ball. That's the base. If FC25 had kept that, then we'd at least have the base. In its current state, there is no base. Go use a 4-2-3-1 and understand that a lot of teams use that formation. So you're going to play a lot of teams that don't push their two central midfielders up the pitch. Same goes with wide midfielders, they're not going to be running into open space - so don't bother marking them in your defensive third.
FC25 is unnecessarily complex in its tactics because it's ignored it's own design of 1v1, and then designed a tactic that basically exposes it further because the design was too stupid to begin with.
I'm not sure how you can say the balance is better when the tactical changes are the reason there are overloads all over the pitch - which is the complete opposite of balance. That's the point I made in my OP.
I think they improved the gameplay a lot more and used some logic in player interactions in those 1v1 moments to be better. They did a great thing with having lower Sprint values (Sim mode uses 32) actually mean the progression from jogging-to-sprinting wasn't as immediate. This means we have a calmer game because players aren't sprinting around like headless chickens, and users can't directly expose the tactical issues immediately. Bump that Sprint slider value up to 40 or 50, now it's sprint all day. Those spaces are easier to get into and exposes issues that the likes of FC24 and previous games did - and it's made worse because a preset tactic that is focused on only attacking means the fullback has no support from their winger defensively.
So many of the gameplay changes are welcomed. The tactics may have helped in some spots, but at the core they are hurting a lot of the potential the game has to be incredible.
Thankfully, with a second controller/keyboard, I can go in and edit those tactics for the CPU. I don't get to play against a 4-2-3-1 anymore, but changing them to a 4-1-4-1 makes the game much more manageable because it's one of the formations where I can set up teams to use box-to-box midfielders - essentially manufacturing the double pivot. Not everyone can do that, and they shouldn't have to.
It's all very much take it or leave this past decade or so, though admit to feeling that way somewhat retrospectively, as good lord has there been rage!
