EA SPORTS FC 25

am i gonig to have to try this on the basis of SIM mode? i know i will be disappointed anyway but i've only just read it's a thing and i'm interested
 
thelinnen said:
The ball is still glued to the players feet, but at this point this must be baked into the engine.
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That's my biggest concern in a nutshell, but I've said this for months:

The biggest problems are in the core of the game, and can't simply be unpicked for a sim mode.

One, 1v1 is a huge deal-breaker - you're taking a team sport, and making it into a mobile experience where you're 1v1-ing each player one after the other to get to the "final boss" (the goalkeeper).

That's not football, and it's obvious every minute you play. And, teams worked together until FIFA 20+. They purposely broke this to eliminate the cries of "AI defending" from FUT players.

Two, the glue effect... No first touches required to control bullet passes, zero loose balls, not even loose deflections - the ball HAS TO go direct to someone every time, and let's be blunt here, that is some PS2-level bullshit.

It's wild to me - fucking wild - that the devs from FIFA 08 onwards worked to separate the ball from the player, to make it a truly separate entity with its own freedom... and then the FIFA 20+ devs went, "that's boring isn't it?" Then put the glue straight back in.

Why? Because "fun". To eliminate player "frustration". Well, as a football fan and not a twitch gamer, I'm frustrated.

I don't see this stuff ever going away. Especially not with Sam "midfielders tracking back would be boring" Rivera at the top of the chain.

It's the best FC by a mile, and it's fun. But it's not a serious game.

FCIQ is like giving us a chess board, putting the pieces on there, and then making every piece unaware of what the other pieces are doing.
 
lagos911 said:
Yes I know... You need a new Microsoft account and then you will be able to buy with 1 euro the Ultimate PC game pass.
Then join ea app with your new xbox account and you are good to go.
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Are you sure it needs the ultimate version?!
For 1 Euro I can get a full month for PC instead of just 14 days ultimate…

IMG_4732.jpeg

Edit: also this needs to be a new account, right?! Using a different email adress than my regular Xbox account?!
 
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Chris Davies said:
That's my biggest concern in a nutshell, but I've said this for months:

The biggest problems are in the core of the game, and can't simply be unpicked for a sim mode.

One, 1v1 is a huge deal-breaker - you're taking a team sport, and making it into a mobile experience where you're 1v1-ing each player one after the other to get to the "final boss" (the goalkeeper).

That's not football, and it's obvious every minute you play. And, teams worked together until FIFA 20+. They purposely broke this to eliminate the cries of "AI defending" from FUT players.

Two, the glue effect... No first touches required to control bullet passes, zero loose balls, not even loose deflections - the ball HAS TO go direct to someone every time, and let's be blunt here, that is some PS2-level bullshit.

It's wild to me - fucking wild - that the devs from FIFA 08 onwards worked to separate the ball from the player, to make it a truly separate entity with its own freedom... and then the FIFA 20+ devs went, "that's boring isn't it?" Then put the glue straight back in.

Why? Because "fun". To eliminate player "frustration". Well, as a football fan and not a twitch gamer, I'm frustrated.

I don't see this stuff ever going away. Especially not with Sam "midfielders tracking back would be boring" Rivera at the top of the chain.

It's the best FC by a mile, and it's fun. But it's not a serious game.

FCIQ is like giving us a chess board, putting the pieces on there, and then making every piece unaware of what the other pieces are doing.
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I'd say it was earlier than that, around Fifa 18. 14 I think was the peak of the series.

I guess it comes down to how much of a football sim purist you are. I was playing Fifa back in the Pes 6 days, and it was only later I discovered the beauty of Pro Evo. I can put up with the various 'Fifaisms' that seemingly will never go away, as long as each match feels like a different experience from the last and I don't feel cheated by scripting or unfair AI.

Is that a low barrier of expectation? Well there's not much competition is there, so I guess it'll have to do. I'm glad that they've made a concious effort to appeal to offline players this year. They don't have to, they could do what Call of Duty has done for the past years and stick a middle finger up to their biggest fans. So I will commend them for that and hope they don't rest on their laurels next year and we basically get another kit update, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
@thelinnen, entirely agree with that. For all the criticism I have, it's a clear step in the "realism" direction and an attempt at a more serious experience, even though it's having to be built around a core that doesn't support it.

Put it like this, every previous FC has had PR that doubled-down on the word "realism", and it's been anything but realistic. This time, it's a more realistic game. No question. They seriously deserve a huge amount of credit for that.

...just please, EA, I beg you, split the game in two now. The time has come. Give us Football Simulator 26. I'll do whatever you want. I'll move to Canada at my own personal expense and get better at coding. Please.
 
Chris Davies said:
@thelinnen, entirely agree with that. For all the criticism I have, it's a clear step in the "realism" direction and an attempt at a more serious experience, even though it's having to be built around a core that doesn't support it.

Put it like this, every previous FC has had PR that doubled-down on the word "realism", and it's been anything but realistic. This time, it's a more realistic game. No question. They seriously deserve a huge amount of credit for that.

...just please, EA, I beg you, split the game in two now. The time has come. Give us Football Simulator 26. I'll do whatever you want. I'll move to Canada at my own personal expense and get better at coding. Please.
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It's always felt to me that the game has been split in two. Ultimate Team plays completely different from offline modes. But whenever they patch the game they also ruin offline. The only reason I can see to do it is thinking it will force people to give up career and start spending money on packs.

All I will say right now, it would take one hell of a patch to ruin the current experience. But you can't put it past them.
 
Two matches played. One as Celtic at home, one as Real Madrid away. Loving it so far. The wind is a nice addition to change the dimension of the game, deliberate fouls are cool to stop the AI attacking, although I did a leg breaker from behind with Modric, the ref gave the free kick, but not even a card. I'd have 100% said a red. GK's are tough, more so with manual shooting I guess. So no crazy scores. Just the 3-1 v Aberdeen & the 0-1 v Leganes. But as I say, loving the game thus far.

Only playing sim mode though, not tried "normal" yet
 
Chris Davies said:
That's my biggest concern in a nutshell, but I've said this for months:

The biggest problems are in the core of the game, and can't simply be unpicked for a sim mode.

One, 1v1 is a huge deal-breaker - you're taking a team sport, and making it into a mobile experience where you're 1v1-ing each player one after the other to get to the "final boss" (the goalkeeper).

That's not football, and it's obvious every minute you play. And, teams worked together until FIFA 20+. They purposely broke this to eliminate the cries of "AI defending" from FUT players.

Two, the glue effect... No first touches required to control bullet passes, zero loose balls, not even loose deflections - the ball HAS TO go direct to someone every time, and let's be blunt here, that is some PS2-level bullshit.

It's wild to me - fucking wild - that the devs from FIFA 08 onwards worked to separate the ball from the player, to make it a truly separate entity with its own freedom... and then the FIFA 20+ devs went, "that's boring isn't it?" Then put the glue straight back in.

Why? Because "fun". To eliminate player "frustration". Well, as a football fan and not a twitch gamer, I'm frustrated.

I don't see this stuff ever going away. Especially not with Sam "midfielders tracking back would be boring" Rivera at the top of the chain.

It's the best FC by a mile, and it's fun. But it's not a serious game.

FCIQ is like giving us a chess board, putting the pieces on there, and then making every piece unaware of what the other pieces are doing.
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Came in to get your thoughts on this Chris. Saw the positivity on sim mode but this being my biggest gripe I fear it's another year skipped for me. You've hit the nail on the head with the glue. Just watching the videos, it looks like the balls is just a by-product of the dribbling, not a factor. It legitimately looks how games did 20 years ago before, as you said, they worked on making the ball its own entity. When the ball is it's own entity and has to be taken into account in how and when you move, it completely opens up the game and changes how it plays. If the ball just follows the dribbler, what's the point in any dribbling stats? Just becomes faster/slower rather than genuine differences.
 
Goalkeepers, shooting, and the interaction between the two, is fantastic by the way*.

I'm really impressed with the variety of saves, but more impressive, they're always "right" - including the outcomes (sometimes the ball deflects a small distance, sometimes a long way, and it feels proportionate to the shot and the goalkeeper animation).

Shot variety feels improved, with some lovely curves, rising shots etc. - and you can score some lovely goals by putting it into the area where the space is, the keeper unable to get there, with a completely natural feel.

So much of the game feels unnatural and the opposite of organic (glue boots, twitching movement etc.) - but in this area, it's brilliant.

I'm feeling more satisfaction from scoring than I have in a long time - 70% because of how much harder it is to create chances, and 30% because the keepers feel like they're actually trying their best to keep me out - both of which leads to a feeling of achievement. AT LAST!

*Other than the occasional goalkeeper skate (where they start sliding in the direction they're going to dive in with both feet still on the ground) - which again, feels like a "core game design" issue that will never, ever be removed. Hypermotion is still a bad thing.
 
Chris Davies said:
Goalkeepers, shooting, and the interaction between the two, is fantastic by the way*.

I'm really impressed with the variety of saves, but more impressive, they're always "right" - including the outcomes (sometimes the ball deflects a small distance, sometimes a long way, and it feels proportionate to the shot and the goalkeeper animation).
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If you watch the goal I upload yesterday , you can see Onana has to hug the post to avoid running into the net, this means that he is completely out of the game when Salah has an easy tap in. Small detail but I thought it was cool.



One thing that really used to bug me in the older games was when goalies would make saves using the force. In the replay you can see they don't even touch the ball to make a stupid save and it felt like cheating.
 
thelinnen said:
If you watch the goal I upload yesterday , you can see Onana has to hug the post to avoid running into the net, this means that he is completely out of the game when Salah has an easy tap in. Small detail but I thought it was cool.



One thing that really used to bug me in the older games was when goalies would make saves using the force. In the replay you can see they don't even touch the ball to make a stupid save and it felt like cheating.
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It means so much more, and feels so deeply rewarding, when it feels like an authentic interaction (and like you've earned it).
 
hatesince97 said:
It's crazy how a few changes can make us happy about fifa. It surely isn't THE game we want but after a long time I'm having fun playing a football game...
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I was thinking it will be a EA FC 24 bis but in the first minute, the feeling was different. I was thinking that my pad was broken when i tried to accelerate the first time and the defender was always on me, with contact. So great.

Chris : i have managed to have a free ball with sliders, but it was on my disapear videos. I will post today my first sliders and new videos.
I want to play more games now on FUMA/Legend!
 
saturator said:
I was thinking it will be a EA FC 24 bis but in the first minute, the feeling was different. I was thinking that my pad was broken when i tried to accelerate the first time and the defender was always on me, with contact. So great.

Chris : i have managed to have a free ball with sliders, but it was on my disapear videos. I will post today my first sliders and new videos.
I want to play more games now on FUMA/Legend!
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Exactly man. As I said, I'm happy to play and will experiment with sliders. Maybe start to mod the gameplay again...
 
I spent most of my morning playing the trial. I'm pleasantly surprised, the prior gameplay videos make the game look like shit compared to when you have it in your hands.

The two main things that I hated from FC24 have been improved.

1. The foot planting and leg animations, they are a huge improvement but not perfect. but it gives your players a much more grounded feel and they're not skipping animation cycles and gliding anywhere near much as last year for the player's convenience.

2. The ball physics. The ball feels more like a physical entity this year when being moved around compared to FC24 where it feel like a round sponge on Mars. the problem is the physics aren't affected by players still, the players can still absorb and control the most violent of passes like they're boots and the ball is made of Velcro and this is especially apparent on Legendary difficulty where the COM just ping pong passes to each other as t such speed there's no consequence that you find yourself getting bored waiting for them to take a shot just so you can get possession back.

I also like the fact they've re-introduced the power bar meaning something when you pass. I fucking detested the stupidity of the automatic passing distance on FC24 that in my opinion it made the game unplayable the most out of all the other issues.

I played every match on Sim mode and I noticed they got rid of the game speed? Damn, give us a new option and take one away as usual.
 
many positives from videos you guys posted while some of the core issues appear that Chris mentioned in the posts.
I tried to battle this issue fc24 with increasing acceleration slider to 55-60, lower the sprint speed to 20 and lower the first touch error to 20. It may seem radical but this gave me balance between the default game speed and more human looking animations of the players, also the weird stuf when player had the ball were less when the firwt touch slider is lowered. Pass speed and error were connected and I never change them becouse game changes a lot in a negative way so you have to change other sliders to made balance but the result will be the same, skating and weird moves.
I know this isn't sliders thread but I wanted to share this so maybe someone will find his enjoyment too.
 
thelinnen said:
There is a setting 'Player Based Difficulty'. Does it do anything? I have it off at the moment.
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This makes the best player(s) in your opponent's team use a higher difficulty level exclusively (so if you're on World Class, playing Leicester, Jamie Vardy will be on Legendary difficulty).

Personally, it really spoils the game for me, because it's not a slight difference - you have players doing normal things, then suddenly the blatantly obvious "legendary" player gets the ball and starts breakdancing as he moves with it.
 
(Had to break this post into two, otherwise the media embeds break.)

Here are some clips from my time with the game to explain what I mean by some of the criticism.

But to start, two of my favourite moments:

Beautiful AI tackle. :D



Goalmouth scramble that I absolutely adored - from the guy getting hit in the side of the head, to the keeper scrambling it out and the overhead kick):



...but notice how the deflection off the defender goes directly to my waiting striker (see below). :(

Then, the bad stuff - grouped into problem areas.

---

DEFENSIVE AI (1v1 core game design issues)

This is defensive twitchiness in a nutshell - and the 1v1, no-AI-outside-of-the-pressing-player stuff too. In what world would the CB run off like that?



AI defender doing absolutely nothing - no awareness of players around him (because of the 1v1 core):



AI centre-back actively getting out of my way - this is the "positional speed" issue I have, he FLIES off towards the sideline leaving a huge gap, but it doesn't matter because he just flies back again... but it looks, and feels, so unrewarding and dumb.



Whack-a-mole 1v1 defending in action.


BALL IS NOT FREE (loose balls are impossible due to how basic the code is)

Smashing a shot at a defender, it would be impossible for him to treat it like a cross and head it to a teammate. It would deflect off his head into space, or out of play. The engine simply has to link every ball contact with a receiving player, which is, frankly, hand-holding crap.



I could provide endless proof of this, and this isn't the best example - but if you look closely, when the goalkeeper makes contact with the ball, you KNOW the actual outcome should be a hard, low, fizzing ball out into space - but the code is so simple, it always has to go to a player. Perfect pass too.



Loose balls are impossible - even "misplaced passes" and clearances have to go DIRECTLY to a player. This is the perfect headed pass, to the opposition!! This is 10/10 reproduceable, it never goes free.



Every header, every situation, despite the ball speed/trajectory, goes direct to a player. It's infuriating!!


SILLY PASS ACCURACY (playing on semi passing, and this is how little error there is - and I'm Middlesbrough for God's sake)

Hh5sCKi.png
 
GLUE BOOTS

When I say "glue boots"... This is it! This is physically impossible, PS1 physics stuff.



More horrific glue boots dribbling.


FOOTPLANTING / SKATING (will never go away)

The lack of footplanting / skating from the AI defending player here - who is very obviously moving in a perfect circle around me, which looks so awful (you can clearly see the invisible barrier)... The skating/sliding is the worst bit though. It doesn't just look bad, it has a gameplay impact - it makes the physically impossible, possible.



More leg-twitching, skating - even from a camera that's miles away, it's super obvious. I hate Hypermotion so much. :(


HYPERMOTION HYPER-RESPONSIVE JELLY-LEGS (physically impossible stuff)

The AI reacting in a split-second, reading my defender's mind, and warping his legs at physically impossible speeds to avoid my tackle. This is another reason why fouls never happen... The hyper-responsiveness of the game is so unrealistic, and breaks gameplay balance. Why is everyone alien-level agile? Hypermotion is a complete immersion wrecker.



Miscontrolling the ball isn't allowed in most situations - instead, you get split-second double-touches of the ball like this, where the player raises his foot, puts it down and raises it again in fast-forward. I really hate Hypermotion for doing this to the game.


TACTICAL RIGIDITY (resulting in players forgetting how to play football)

There was a concern that FCIQ may introduce tactical rigidity at the expense of player intelligence, and here's an example - there are two instances in this clip where my pass target simply stops dead (along with every AI player), instead of running into space and giving me options. This is a very artificial way of making it harder to score... It's not realistic. No player is that stupid, but he can't "override" his positioning code.


AI RANDOMLY TRIES TO BREAK YOUR LEGS (this is NOT a fix for the AI never mistiming tackles, EA)

Stupid AI tackle, trying to get themselves sent off straight after kick-off. This would never happen. It's just a stupid, hacky way of forcing fouls and it's transparent. Nobody is fooled by this.

 
come back here just to see what the big man himself thinks of this game seeing as everytime i read what you have to say it aligns with my thoughts perfectly. looks like it's a no go for me just from that defender video where he runs away. oh well.

Chris, what's your twitter? i deleted my account in a huff last year and for some reason i can't find you again, always good to see what you have to say on the state of PES and FIFA mate
 
a few games in and enjoying it, key points on a positive note:-

>scores are much more realistic
>speed reduced in sim mode
>better player positioning
>better foot planting
>general movement improved
>better ball physics

Makes it a worthwhile punt, especially when we can also adjust sliders outside of sim mode to suit in respect of frequency and error, but it’s definitely worth playing now.
 
Is sim-mode only sliders, or something else

If i change sliders to custom and make it same as sim-mode ... are those two equal.

I would reduce goalkeepers ability little, and increase shot-pass error even more
 
What I'm most pleased about is the passing and through balls, now through passes actually go into space and curve and the passes allow me more control over the power and how far I want them to travel. No more weird assisted AI bullshit where it tries guess my pass locking for me!
 
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